[Skunkabilly]

http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/pistols/summerle/large/CustomTLERLII.jpg

External extractor, frontstrap checkering, accessory rail...hmmm....

Well I'm moving away from the 1911s but thought this may be of interest to someone.

I/T!!!

[Lone_Gunman]

Skunk,

I am surprised that you think a gun designed in 1911, that has no plastic parts, and a wimpy 8 round mag could ever be considered "tactical".
;)

[tlhelmer]

Ease up on the Skunk;)

He is a modern (tactical) man.

[tlhelmer]

I guess the external extractor will improve reliablility. That is a beautiful gun.

[George Hill]

I am so unimpressed.
Accessory rails are just a cliche now. As if the gun is more effective with a rail than a gun without it. I can see these selling big to the cats that think you can buy skill with a gun. These lights that attach to the handguns are more popular than ever, but they are also freaking expensive and most shooters out there are too cheap to fron the coin for a mountable light... These are the same guys who will spend a great deal of cash on a top of the line gun, yet pack it in a 12 dollar Uncle Mike's nylon pouch and feed it American Eagle or Wolf ammunition.
I would guess that over 75% of railed handguns will never have a mounted light on them. But oh, they are just so much more TACTICAL than the guns without... so that if needed you can mount the light.
Whatever.
Like your going to find yourself shoulder to shoulder with a SWAT team looking up at a building and the SWAT guys look at you and say "You'll need this when you go in" and hand you light to clip on your rail.
:barf:

If you can't tell, I don't like rails. If you don't buy the light when you buy the gun - you'r probably not going to get the light.
Now, some guys out there take themselves more seriously that that and will have lights for these rails.. and will mount them. Such a system is effective and good in the dark. But the cats that will actually make use of them are few.

"Oh, but these guns are meant for real Operators." Said by those that only talk to Operators when they dial Zero. Out of 100 of these Kimbers made, only a fraction will go to guys that will actually use them with lights... and out of those numbers only a fraction will be Operators that don't work for a phone company.

Hey that reminds me of an episode of "WKRP". Do you remember the episode when they break the phone and the one stoned DJ things the Phone Police are coming after him? That was funny stuff. Almost as funny as the Gunstore Commandoes that really think a railed handgun is a more tactical or effective or powerful handgun. These are probably the same guys that forget or never knew that a gunsmith can mount a rail like that on just about ANY handgun you could want. I've seen lights - and I am not kidding here - mounted on a S&W 686. But I doubt S&W is going to break out a line of railed revolvers. Who knows... they might. That's what the fad is. :rolleyes:

To me, rails on the gun are ugly. Seriously... just ugly. Ruin the lines of the gun.
http://itsb.ucsf.edu/~vcr/APFatBasThin.gif
Is this an improvement?

[krept]

Does that mean you like the external extractor George?:D

[dude]

......then don't buy a pistol with a rail.

MAN!, the fact that they exist but are not being used upsets you.............THAT's funny! Dude, how do you fell about all those folks out there not using their bayo-mounts?

[Thumper]

George, how do you feel about nipples on a boar hog?

[Sean Smith]

:eek:

[M1911]

So, George, don't hold back now. Tell us how you really feel.

[10-Ring]

Classic lines spoiled! Just like the SIG 220ST, the Beretta Vertec & now this Kimber :rolleyes: Those rails do NOTHING for me!

[AndABeer]

as much as the rail makes it ugly, that dang "II" makes it even uglier:barf:

[tex_n_cal]

:p he he he

One - the external extractor looks to me like the Bill Ruger school of "...let's make it cheaper, then claim it to be an advantage, the gun writers won't know the difference...". I will stick to internal, spring steel extractors, thank you.

Two - well, the Kimber's grips and checkering are nice.

Three - if you really a 1911 with rail, go with a SA TRP Operator. Try to find one that doesn't jam, like the one I shot:D

Four - if you actually do go after a bad guy with one of these, I suggest night vision goggles instead of a high dollar flashlight. I never have been, nor ever will be an "operator", but common sense tells me that an armed assailant definitely will be able to see YOU when you've got the light on.

Five - that rail might actually be a good place to hang a bayonet, for the BG's who like to try snatching guns from LEO's:D

[Safety First]

Hey George, glad to see you got that out of your system, I know you must feel better now:D

[boing]

Sick of TACTICAL (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31150)

You need a new gig, man. ;)

http://www.eyeonstarwars.com/trilogy/character/images/chewie.jpg

[bad_dad_brad]

Kimbers shmimbers. I don't like M1911s.

Care to retort at this thread?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26107

[sm]

You just re-iterated what I would have typed--thanks! :D

I'm sick of tactical.

Of course I played hell accepting 8 rd mags, stainless 1911's and I still refuse to have night-sights. But I still practice without sights-period! . Don't want a damn external extractor on a 1911 either,also- though I do have some that do, I prefer NO FLGR, either.

There is a place for LEO and SWAT persons--not for me. Old '73 is never going to be caught in anything tactical (like BDU's) --be at the quickie mart when BG decides to start shooting, and get shot because I look tacitical, LEO, or wannabe.

Nope. Make no doubt if BG threatens me, I'll be in blue jeans/oxford shirt/tennis-shoe's-- me with a basic gun in 1911 style that will end it--quickly. I'll probably be pissed because tactical wannabe draws fire and...all that damn paper work, money, attorney fees...just because of a joe tactical catalog.

besides, a hell of alot of ammo can be bought with the money saved...ammo, practice , training trumps wannabe toys -IMO.

Ok I feel better, now to go another classroom discussion and express my view on why we don't need gov't to own every damn thing...

[Skunkabilly]

I am surprised that you think a gun designed in 1911, that has no plastic parts, and a wimpy 8 round mag could ever be considered "tactical".

I think it has a plastic mainspring, and I have 10-round 1911 mags :D

And plastic? All I have left is Nina and Grace, who has an 8 round magazine! Graciepoo yeah you're my girl aren't you *snuggle*

Really I'm gonna skip this gun, but thought someone would find it appealing. With that kind of money I'll probably just pick up another P7M8 though....Graciepoo needs a twin sister don't you girl.... :D

[DigMe]

George,

Try decaf.

brad cook








:neener:

[Gordy Wesen]

Cool.
A flashlight with a handle.

[George Hill]

Who is talking about Bayonett Lugs? Look man, that is a completely different issue... but don't put a bayonett lug on a Remington 700 and try telling me that its more "tactical".

[George Hill]

"6' tall, 240 lbs, runs 2 miles in 10:30?"
Still 6', but I hunch... 2 miles in 10:30? Used to... haven't been able to do that since I got sick early last year.

I need to get working out again... get back into fighting shape. I'm still 240 though.

Thanks for making me feel old.
:scrutiny:

[tex_n_cal]

:D Like I said, I am no Operator, but...

logically, you walk into a dark room looking for BG, punch the uber-tactical light on - if you do indeed blind the BG making him docile, great stuff, you don't have to shoot him.

IF ON THE OTHER HAND you walk into the same room, turn on the light, but don't spotlight the BG right away, he now has you thoroughly spotted, and fires before you get him in the light. Not Good:what:

I know I'm not the first person to think of this, but a set of night sights on the gun, and a largish knife on the accessory rail strike me as a better combo for CQB in dark places.

I would seriously consider such a combo as a home defense gun, but the first one I saw (TRP operator) was not reliable.:(

[M1911]

Four - if you actually do go after a bad guy with one of these, I suggest night vision goggles instead of a high dollar flashlight. I never have been, nor ever will be an "operator", but common sense tells me that an armed assailant definitely will be able to see YOU when you've got the light on.NVGs have a very narrow field of view. That's ok at distance, but up-close-and-personal, that limited field of view could get you flanked in a hurry.

[New_comer]

<gulp!>

Ugly it is!!! :barf:

Add several more ounces of 'tactical appendages' in an already massive gun??

What was Kimber thinking??!!:rolleyes:

I wouldn't be surprised if there's provision for a sling in that design... :rolleyes:

[PCRCCW]

I have a truely great purpose for light railed guns......like the TRP...but the full length dust covered models are the ones Im talking about ...so, this Kimber is out of this equation.

Get the full length d.c. guns and just mill the rails off.....if you do an "uber" clean job.........you have a very very unique and IMO, classy gun. Look at the LB Monolith....CZ97 etc.......................

Its just something I would do to Customize a gun to make it mine..........or "ruin" it in other peoples eyes........letem think its ruined.

shoot well

[45auto]

I believe the goverment is buying some 1911's for the Marines this summer. I wouldn't be surprised if Kimber is submitting that gun, or at least the frame. Might as well sell it in the open market.

Besides, Springfield has one and Kimber is not one to be "out marketed".

[BigG]

[External extractor] ...the Bill Ruger school of "...let's make it cheaper, then claim it to be an advantage, the gun writers won't know the difference..." Ha ha ha ha :D

[themic]

what's wrong with gun manufacturers making guns that people want to buy? they aren't taking down a particular line of guns to replace it with this one.

so what if no one ever puts a light on it? so what if it's too expensive? that's the buyer's money, and the manu wants it. We'll see, but I'm betting it will even be a good quality well built handgun, as kimber's generally are.

who hasn't bought a gun at least partially because they like the way it looks? because they like what you COULD do with it? (yes i'm putting self defense, target shooting, and tactical light rails all in the same category in that last statement)

gawd i remember this conversation about skateboards when i was 8 years old. verdict? posers are annoying, but not a problem. poser skateboards... who cares? i'd take their money too.

[DigMe]

IF ON THE OTHER HAND you walk into the same room, turn on the light, but don't spotlight the BG right away, he now has you thoroughly spotted, and fires before you get him in the light. Not Good

I don't have a rail light and I never will have a rail light. However I use my Brinkmann Legend LX lithium/xenon handheld and there isn't a room in my home that this light will not completely light up. If I stand at the door to any room and turn it on I can see the entire room. Yeah, I might be slower on the shot if I'm not looking directly at him but it won't be because it was too dark in whatever part of the room he was in.

brad cook

[Erik]

Nice pistol, IF the buyer plans on actually mounting a light on it.

If not, nice marketing ploy.

(Wants one without the light rail. Yes, yes, I know that it is still a marketing ploy. But my wife doesn't.):evil:

[seeker_two]

Oh, George.....

http://www.smith-wesson.com/Products/Firearms/pc/images/M629STEAfull.jpg

http://www.smith-wesson.com/Products/Firearms/pc/images/M629PCfullsz.jpg

[Andrew Wyatt]

I am going to buy one of those kimbers and put a big honking magazine funnel on it just to anger George. :neener:




Seriously, though, I'm planning on putting together a railed 1911 for use as a house gun with a light on it. I really don't care if people think i'm a wannabe because i hate having to compromize my hold on my pistol because i have a flashlight in the other hand.

[George Hill]

Revolvers with flat top hair cuts... differnt thing. Unless your mounting the scope underneth for something.

[Trisha]

I'll go with a pistol with a mountable light! I've a UTL coming for my USPc, and I'm looking at getting a new G21 so I can dedicate an M3!

Why?

Because I prefer to clear with a comfortable .45 in one hand and my lovely forged katana in the other (rather than keeping it slung). . .

[Skunkabilly]

Because I prefer to clear with a comfortable .45 in one hand and my lovely forged katana in the other (rather than keeping it slung). . .

Are you the female version of Carbon_15?

http://www.mallninja.com/images/Carbon_154.jpg

[Trisha]

I'm a nice girl, Skunk - and preacherman can now vouch for that personally after having dinner with Susan and me recently!

Besides, that looks like surplus khaki/OD, and a repro wakizashai - I accessorize so much better. . .

[9x19]

I like the light rails on my Glocks (perfer the single groove setup for fast attachment of the light tho'), and my home handgun is a Glock 34 (The Best Pistol Ever Built) with an M3 mounted and 19 round mag inserted.

Of course, I also put a light rail on my Benelli M1 Super 90, and have an M3 mounted on it.

Living in the country, far from the ever nosier gov't types, has given me several opportunities to deploy the lights and I am impressed with their utility and the M3's ergonomics, especially on a pistol.

I'll pass on the light-railed 1911 though, as I only shoot the oldies for fun and games.

[Grayrider]

I just picked up my new Loaded Operator. Slid my smith's M3 light on it, and was hooked. Guys who say they don't want rails, probably haven't tried this combo. The light weighs nothing, and is dead center on target. The rocker switch is very easy to reach and manipulate. Then there is the full-length dust cover issue, something Kimber seems to have forgotten. Again, if you haven't tried a gun with that you are missing out. All the weight up front makes a big difference. I plan to set this up as my home defense pistol, and the light will be very handy when something goes bump in the night. The Mrs. will like that as well given her general fear of the dark (but skill with a .45 1911).

Of course this gun is an "oldie", and doesn't hold enough ammo. God help us if more than 10 bad guys get in the house at once! Keep thinking that way some of you. Leaves more 1911s out there for the rest of us. I hate people competing with me for good deals.

GR

[faustulus]

I can live without the light rail but maybe they will make it in super 38.



Besides, that looks like surplus khaki/OD, and a repro wakizashai - I accessorize so much better. . .

Isn't the wakizashi the short one?

[harrydog]

QUOTE:

"I believe the goverment is buying some 1911's for the Marines this summer. I wouldn't be surprised if Kimber is submitting that gun, or at least the frame. Might as well sell it in the open market.

Besides, Springfield has one and Kimber is not one to be "out marketed"."



Kimber, Springfield, and Colt (there may be others as well) have all submitted guns to compete for ths Marine contract. I think the decision is to be made in august.
There is a role for this type of weapon, but for me personally, if I need a light, I prefer a separate hand held light.

[USMCsilver]

George Hill said -- If you can't tell, I don't like rails. If you don't buy the light when you buy the gun - you'r probably not going to get the light. Now, some guys out there take themselves more seriously that that and will have lights for these rails.. and will mount them. Such a system is effective and good in the dark. But the cats that will actually make use of them are few.

I, myself, like the rails. I like the lights, too.

I have a Streamlight M3 that I keep mounted on my Glock 23. It has the remote pressure pad attached to the grip so I can use the thumb of my strong hand to activate the light. It is a great set-up for home use, and it stays bedside. I wish my other handguns would accomodate the light, but the stupid "euro-rails" are different sizes. The light was about $140 and it was bought long after the Glock.

And, guess what, I have a RAS on my pre-ban AR-15. I use those rails, too. I have a Surefire M900a mouted to it. This is also a little home defense weapon (or beaver huntin' gun). The light works great and ran me about $500.

I have three more Surefire lights, but unfortunately, they don't mount to rail systems. And, when I got my Wilson CQB, I wish I would have waited until my dealer had one in stock with the rails.

Again, I like rails and I like lights. A rail may very well help someone in a life or death situation (assuming they buy a light for it).

[Ky Larry]

In a SHTF senario, I think I might be better served with a my Kimber in one hand and my 4 cell MAG-LITE in the other. In a hand-to-hand situation a MAG-Lite can put a serious hurt on a human skull. Just ask anyone who ever took a swing at an LEO. I have a hazy memory of an Arkansas state trooper from many years and beers ago.

[Erik]

"Isn't the wakizashi the short one?"

Yep. The katana is the longer one.

Someone will probably be along shortly with the name of the really long one. Any minute now, if I know this crowd... ;)

[Andrew Wyatt]

I have enough problems with worrying about having to deal with someone in my house who might want to kill me to go asking for more difficulty by using a hand held light with my pistol.

[Skunkabilly]

Update from a buddy, it'll be tested for California.

[OneShot]

Just curious Skunk, Are you from Nor. or So Cal?

By the way my XD has a rail but I don't use it--Rob

[varoadking]

I appreciate good humor - and that was funny...:D

[MJRW]

I can't wait until someone releases a Katana with an accessory rail.

[Ian]

Enough tactical pistols...has anyone released a strategic pistol yet?

[krept]

I think the defensive measures incorporated into the perimeter becomes the strategic part. :D

You know, I frequently hear one group that uses the 1911s are the MEUs. In fact, aren't they the only military group issued them?

Funny how on another forum I read they were shopping around for a 1911 platform that utilizes a rail mounted weapons light. This as opposed to mounting it on... the slide lock lever?

I guess what I'm saying is... we already know we aren't going to be superheros, and it's not very smart to pull room domination in your own home if you can avoid it. But... I can think of at least one reason to use a weapon mounted light (call 5-0 holding BG @ gunpoint, opening door, calling LE while barricaded).

Training trumps gear anyhow. I guess we'll see if it catches on or not. Personally, I'd rather have the option for a weapons mounted light than to be forced to go with the Harries and an E2e and a USP (my setup) or whatever.

Sure there are time when you don't want to point the weapon where you aim the light. that's why they are detachable.

Don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence, just felt a little opinionated tonight.
cheers

[Schmit]

From the Retired Marine Gunnery Sergeant side of me. -

I've got a tactical 1911.... yeap I do... Original Gunsite Service Pistol! Mil-Spec Springfield, Dehorned, Reliability Job, Trigger Job, Hi-Vis Sights (not those Tritium or Fiber Optic kind... just larget rear notch for flash sight picture), lowered and flaired ejection port. To which I added Mag- well and No-Slip tape to the front strap. Finish on the gun needs to be redone but hey... it goes BANG when I press the trigger no matter what I feed it and the bullet hits the target.

Add to that my Sure-Fire light, suitable flashlight technique w/handgun and proper house clearing techniques and I'm all set to check out things that go "bump" in the night... oh wait, I don't check out "Bumps in the night"... I send out my first line of defense... my Rotty.

Guess it's not a Tactical gun. Oh well, my bad. But ya know, I'll be able to use the above any time seeing I carry the gun on my strong side hip with the Surefire (w/Meat Tenderizer on end) and an extra Mag on my weak side hip in normal leather gear.

But hey, I guess I could get rid of this set up and get me an honest to gosh, dedicated, "Tactical Assault Handgun" along with the necessary gear to carry it concealed for alllllllllll those Tactical Engagements I find myself getting into. :what:

Now, from the Gun Store Sales Rep side of me -

Great! I can think of half a dozen people I can sell these to. What is that guys name, the computer programer dude that bought the RRA M4gery along with the following GG&G gear - Tact Railed front hand guards, Flip up Rear sight, Front Pistol Grip, M3 Light/Laser, Harris Bi-Pod, Leupold Vari-X III Tactical Scope and Giles Tactical Sling? Yeap, he needs one of these!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[krept]

Gunny, I agree. The 1911 is probably the most tactical gun out there, no matter how you dress it. It even looks more pro when the finish is worn from multiple presentations. I don't think anyone can escape from the "tactical" label when you get down to it, nor being seen as "cool" by performing well with minimal gear.

Seems like with the rottie and the TID (tenderizer) you have your stragegery covered.

I'm really interested to see how well the external extractor idea will sell (who woulda thunk?). Also interested in how many "teams" make the transition to weapon mounted lights. As a parallel to other tac-gear, I'm pretty surprised how much the red dots are being used on M4s today. Surely the M14 fans see this as the decline of the rifleman...

[Skunkabilly]

Great! I can think of half a dozen people I can sell these to. What is that guys name, the computer programer dude that bought the RRA M4gery along with the following GG&G gear - Tact Railed front hand guards, Flip up Rear sight, Front Pistol Grip, M3 Light/Laser, Harris Bi-Pod, Leupold Vari-X III Tactical Scope and Giles Tactical Sling? Yeap, he needs one of these!!!

Hey, I'm for anything that helps get the economy going :p

[Skunkabilly]

I just e-mailed Kimber.

It will NOT fit SureFire weaponlights.

BOOOOO!!! BOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! :(

[10-Ring]

It will NOT fit SureFire weaponlights.

Hey, Skunk, nothing a little sticky rice & duct tape can't fix :neener:

[Bobarino]

ya know, 1911's remind me of Chevy Camaros. i used to read motorhead magazines back when i was in my white trash/guns'n'Roses/muscle car phase, and there were Camaros in there ALL the time. after while they are extremely unimpressive. same with 1911's. i read gun rags on occasion, but i refuse to even pick one up that has ANOTHER "New Tactical Ultimate 1911" on the cover. just like the Camaro, there is NOTHING you can do to a 1911 that hasn't been done 100 times before. they are STALE! good guns, don't get me wrong, but they are STALE!!

when the baby boomer generation starts to die out, and my generation starts to take its place in the consumer market, i wonder if there will be so many 1911's out there. we were raised on Sigs and Glocks and HKs and such. and honestly, i could care less if there was never another 1911 made ever. after 90+ years of "improvements" and modifications to make it better, its still the same gun. i honestly can't believe that people pay upwards of $2000 for these things. but hey, to each his/her own right?

they'll probably make a million of them and makes millions of dollars in the process and good for them. its still not impressive to me. it would be impressive if someone came up with an American made pistol that would rival the German offerings in terms of quality and reliability and functionality. and don't tell me the Springfield XD series is it. its made in some third world country. and the grip safety's only function is to attract people stuck on the 1911 design. :barf:

rant - off
flame away!

Bobby

[krept]

I'm still of the opinion that a paddle style magazine release is mo' tactical...

I'll keep wishing for a 1911 with one.

[Skunkabilly]

>> ANOTHER "New Tactical Ultimate 1911" on the cover. just like the Camaro, there is NOTHING you can do to a 1911 that hasn't been done 100 times before. <<

100 times over? Other than the Springfield Operator series this is the only other major 1911 manufacturer offering integral light rails.

>> after 90+ years of "improvements" and modifications to make it better, its still the same gun. <<

Sure it's the

>> it would be impressive if someone came up with an American made pistol that would rival the German offerings in terms of quality and reliability and functionality. <<

That said I wish HK would make a 1911. Just because :D

Krept...Amen, homie!