[waynedm]

I hear a lot of bad talk about the M9 either because of the gun or because of the 9mm.

I want to know what you would choose if you were going to Iraq or Afghanistan or wherever. What gun and what caliber and why?

Everybody has an opinion and I was wondering what would come out as the most mentioned.

I'm a 9mm lover, but when it comes to ball or FMJ ammo both 9mm and .45 penetrate enough (.45 230 gr was something like 25 inches, 9mm 124 gr was like 29") so you might as well go with .45. I also think 9mm and .45 are the easiest to shoot. I know the 9mm would be easier to find ammo for than the .45 but I guess I'd just make sure I stocked up enough when I had the chance.

As for the gun I'd go with a Glock 21sf or HK USP. I wouldn't want anything to do with a gun with full length guide rails because they're so much more likely to jam up when dirty than insert guides like the HK or Glock. Both designs are time tested and great in adverse conditions.

Your turn.

[Ala Dan]

I'd stick with the 9m/m cuz its a NATO round, and chances are real good
that you could find ammo close by~!

[AndyC]

BTDT - had a BHP. 9mmP ammo is easy to find there - .45acp is as scarce as rocking-horse s**t

If I went nowadays, it would be a Glock (and I generally dislike Glocks).

Our joke - sorta - went something like this: Rifles are for fighting, pistols are for suicide at the point of capture.

[Nomad, 2nd]

1911 .45

Cause I KNOW that 9mm ball SUX for taking down Haji's, the 1911 allows superior handling, and I have confidenace in the .45.

[AndyC]

Where are you going to find ammo for it?

[Nomad, 2nd]

Same place ammo was avalable in the sandbox... The Corps issues the MUSOC 1911...

[DirksterG30]

Either a SIG P226 or my CZ P-01.

[AndyC]

You'd rely on the military for your ammo-supply? Ye gods... :D

Btw, no offence implied on my comments - I'm also a .45 fan. I just found that actually being there and seeing logistics-issues re ammo, parts, etc forced me to re-evaluate my options.

[longeyes]

Glock 17 or 19--although I'd prefer a Glock 30.

[CWL]

Going into battle? I'd take whatever issue weapon is given to me.

Seriously, this question is silly since I'd be carrying a long-arm and worrying about more important items for my kit, like if I have any quik-clot.

Pistol is low down on my priority list.

Pistols are side-arms meant for self-defense, not a battlefield weapon.

[Gator]

I am a 1911 fanatic, but given your conditions, I'd take a Glock 9mm. It will always work, is fairly light, and I could scrounge ammo anywhere.

And my MBR would be an M14, or course :)

[fattsgalore]

9mm and .308 would be just fine.

[ozwyn]

As a wiseass, I would stick with a m9 for fear of standing out during all those quiet moments where potential insurgents might be sizing you up before something goes down.

what i would do, however, is bring my own AMMO. Stuck with ball ammo, both 9mm and .45 both are...well... not anywhere near as good as 9mm with quality SD ammo.

and then bring extra ammo, lots of it, because there isn't that much of a point loading yourself out if the people covering your @ss don't also have better ammo IMO.

But take this all with an appropriate grain of salt....... I rate myself about 2 steps removed from mall-ninjadom.

[universal]

Glock 17.

[alucard0822]

I agree with CWL, I would rather carry a couple frags, med kit, or a couple extra mags of those beautiful 77gr noslers for of all things an m-16 or m-4. I think it was Patton who said: The best use of a pistol in war is to fight your way back to a rifle. but he had a pair of nickeled SAA's with Ivory handles, I guess if I had to have a pistol or two they would be nice to keep in my footlocker.

[mljdeckard]

Interesting this should come up,

I was having this conversation the other day with my platoon, about half of them have been, and the other half are going, (Afgahanistan,) (I have about 18 months of training coming,) and my plt sgt said when he goes back, he is taking his USP .45. I asked, "What about JAG measuring bullet holes, smuggling in your own ammo, etc.?" He said he could have taken it before, and wished he had it BADLY. If that means taking it and leaving it there because customs won't let it back in the country, so be it. Consider it a safety investment and get a new one at home.

I asked if I should take my 1911, he said, "Don't take yours, take 500 rds of 230 gr FMJ, and look for a guy who is about to leave who wants to get rid of one because he can't take it home, and use that one. Sell it to a new guy when you are about to leave."

CWL -HERE'S THE PROBLEM. If you are in a position where you actually NEED to use a sidearm, the one they issue you shoots the worst PD round that comes to mind. You don't want to be pointing that beat-up Beretta loaded with 115 gr fmj at a charging bad guy when ALL OF YOUR OTHER WEAPONS AND SUPPORT HAVE EITHER FAILED OR ARE INEFFECTIVE, and have your last thought be: "I sure hope I can hit this charging haji in the spine, because that's the only way I know this will stop him." If your sidearm is your last method of defense, it must be the best.

[Nomad, 2nd]

Take my word for it... there's a few pistols floating around... I only got $150...

[bill larry]

Goin into battle? Gimme a tank...

Or a sub gun.

[tnieto2004]

CZ P01 and a AK of course

[cmidkiff]

Going into battle: I'll take . . .

A detour?
The long way around?
A different flight?

Sorry... an old fat man like me? I'm staying as far from a firefight as possible.

Were I unexpectedly dumped into a battle situation, I'm with Bill... in the tank :) A handgun is far from the first thing I'd worry about in that situation. Cover would be right at the top, then perhaps a vehicle mounted weapon and a good secure firing position...

[sb350hp]

If I am down to fighting with my sidearm, I would take a radio and coordinates for a close drop airstrike. :evil:

[CWL]

mjdeckard,
While I prefer 1911 .45ACP pistols, a pistol for combat is still low priority.

If things are that bad and I'm being overrun by BGs, there will probably be other M4s or better guns I could pick up and use.

These type of questions are ridiculous and are for armchair generals planning SHTF scenarios.

I have been in 2 firefights in my life, in one, all I had was a 9mm pistol. I don't remember ever saying to myself that I should go for the spine.

[Jim March]

Get a 3" barrel SP101 in 9mm with moonclips. Take the factory rounds to a grinding wheel and flat-nose them 'cuz I don't have no steenkin' feed ramp thank ya very much.

[DC3-CVN-72]

I would stick with the Beretta M-9 9mm. I would have a rifle and mags, and amo. for the M-9 would be every where, a big plus. I think the M-9 9mm. dose a good job as as the sidearm of the U.S Milatary. I see no need to chang it. This is comeing from a diehard .45 1911 A-1 fan. I just think it's the right tool for the job at this time. I think in this situation I want more rounds in the gun with more spare amo in the mags.

[10-Ring]

I would take either a USP 9, Glock 19 or a Beretta 92fs / 90-two :D I too like the caliber & as a back up weapon, it would be good sidekick

[daysleeprx]

Glock 18 :D

[357wheelgunner]

A S&W model 66 4", it won't overburden my hip and shoots a powerful round. It also points like a finger.

[jad0110]

Were I unexpectedly dumped into a battle situation, I'm with Bill... in the tank

Yeah, the title of the thread only asks what you would take into battle.

In that case, I'll take my S&W 642 snubbie 38 with me.

That little 642 would sure be more comfortable than a 1911 on my hip while jammed into the cockpit of an A-10 :evil: :neener: !

Seriously, before I went to college I seriously considered a military career. I thought the A-10 would be a cool plane to fly (or an F-15, talk about extremes), but I know at 6'7" I'd probably have to fly around without a canopy ... DOH!!!

[mljdeckard]

I used to be a tank crewman. I love the tank. The M-1 is 68 tons of security.

But you know what?

The guy I hung out with in Germany who taught me most of what I know about combat has made his entire military career being a mortar crewman in armor units. His California guard unit was activated to go to the sandbox, and his guys were exited. "Yes!! We get to paint our tanks brown and go blow some stuff up!!" WRONG. They didn't need armor. They have little use for the armor that's already there. Too big, cumbersome, and VULNERABLE. (One molotov cocktail might not be a big deal to armor, but TEN is a VERY big deal.) They left their tanks at home, and the sole infantry platoon in the battalion, my friend's 11Cs, got to take the lead in reminding the tankers how to rely on basic infantry gear and tactics.

Again, if you ever actually have to USE your sidearm, it means all other systems, air support, heavier weapons, WHATEVER, have failed or are somehow not helpful in this case. This is the situation, MORE THAN ANY OTHER, when you absolutely must have the very best gear possible.

[wooderson]

Easiest solution for 'poor one-shot performance' of 9mm FMJ: shoot twice. Three times even.

The choice between my CZ SP-01 and P226 would be difficult - but the CZ is more trustworthy IMO, so that would be the choice.

[Mandirigma]

If I were sure I was going into battle I wouldn't worry so much about what gear I had, (other than to insure its reliable) I'd be spending time at interactive ranges (with copies of issued weapons, borrowed or self bought) spending time making sure my skills were reliable.

Not only spending time shooting, but also practicing malfunction clearing on my primary (rifle) and secondary (pistol) to the point where it becomes automatic.

Just MHO

[Geronimo45]

SMLE with one of those massive sword-bayonets. That allows me to pop off rifle grenades, and have an almost-high-cap evil-bolt-rifle with a bayonet that can do some real damage. Matter of fact, I think the SMLE's foot-long hook-quillion (sp) bayonet is one of the finest anti-zombie, riot-control tools out there.

A FN Five-Seven would be nice to have, too - since this IS the handgun forum, not the rifle forum. Maybe even a CZ P01 with the bayonet mounted on it. :cool:

[GreenFurniture]

Either a Sig P228 or a 1911.

[GreenFurniture]

Maybe a USP 9 or .45 as well.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

USP .45

[jfernett119]

Glock 21 or USP .45.

[USAFA06STX]

For me I'd probably take the standard M9. Because I'm in the military the Beretta 92 was the first pistol I bought on my own (just as an AR15 was the first rifle I purchased on my own), the pistol that I practice with every weekend on my own dime, and the pistol that I am most familiar with in use and maintenance. I'm a firm believer that you practice with what you fight with. I also do not rely on any pistol for a 'one shot stop,' no matter what the caliber, as I have always been taught that you keeping shooting until the threat is neutralized.

Additionally, the Beretta has the added benefit of having a support network in place should it break. The only thing I might try to do differently is take Beretta magazines with me as it seems most of the problems I've had with military issue M9s and my own Beretta comes from worn out or cheap magazines not made by Beretta.

[threegun]

Understanding that the pistol is always simply a means to get to my rifle if I was in battle I would choose the Glock 21. If I had to abide by the Geneva convention. If I could use hollowpoints or other expanding ammo I would choose the Glock 23 or the Glock 19.

[M2 Carbine]

I'd take the Apache chain gun.:)

[GunNut]

If everybody else is going to be carrying 9mm's, i'll take a Glock 17 or 18:evil: or even a 34, since I would trust any of these guns.


If we all switch to .45ACP, one of two guns would be good for me: Either my Glock 21 or possibly a HK USP.

[AndyC]

If you were knowingly going to war, your rifle would be right next to you already.

"Fighting my way to my rifle" is a civilian concept, not military.

[Dravur]

I would take a couple Glocks in 9mm.....

Now, I would also want an AR Pistol with an unlimited ammo supply....

and a pony.

[mljdeckard]

I will absolutely agree, that no matter what sidearm you wind up using, anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. (At least.) The best way to maximize the effectiveness of a pistol whether it has (you believe) 60% or 90% first-shot stop likelihood is to repeat hits.

[Vern Humphrey]

I think it was Patton who said: The best use of a pistol in war is to fight your way back to a rifle. but he had a pair of nickeled SAA's with Ivory handles

Clint Smith said that, not Patton. Patton carried a Colt SAA and a S&W Registered Magnum (as well as a Colt M1903.) Patton competed in the Penthalon (riding, running, swimming, fencing and pistol shooting) in the 1912 Olympics and was a superb pistol shot. He actually killed two enemy with that SAA during the Mexican Punitive Expedition.

[4fingermick]

Actually, much as I love my steenking pistolas, I'd probably prefer to carry a couple of extra mags for the rifle. Every ounce counts when you have to carry it. If I was vehicle based and could afford to take such heavy luxuries, it would be 1) H&K, 2) SIG, 3) Glock.

I don't want accuracy, I wanna be able to hit a dinner plate at 15 yards, I don't want tight, I want a big old girl that rattles when you shake it and works after you tripped over and sunk it in the mud and will feed anything you stick in it and I want tough so I can whack a guy upside of the head and not have to throw it away afterwards.

I'd also want it to be shooting the same ammo as the other guys around me and these days, that means 9mm.

Mick.

[waynedm]

Rifles are obviously superior to handguns; we all realize this - no need to state it.

The arm chair generals seem to rag on the 9mm and M9 a lot. I wanted to know what people's opinions were as far as what would be supiorior to the M9 and 9mm that gets so much flak.

[Mortech]

CZ75 , cheap enought to replace if I had to leave it behind . Note ,, if you have a really nice commander you can get your weapons added to the units TOE so the can be brought back .

[HMMurdock]

Only military has to use ball ammo, so I'd take a Glock 19 9mm as my sidearm because 9mm is abundant overseas...

If not subjected to finding ammo over there, I'd go with a .45 because ball or hollows work fine and I'd take a Glock 21 or 21SF. I love 1911's but if I'm in a sandy area I wouldn't be fond of trusting a jam-o-matic 7 round 1911. Great for city or putting holes in paper, but gimme a high-cap reliable sidearm like the Glock. Mags are cheap, too, unlike Hk or even Sig...

TRL

[Redneck with a 40]

I'd take my XD-40, its rock solid, reliable, shoot's a good round, even with FMJ ammo. I would just make sure I had a 5000 round case of ammo going with me.:D

[Eightball]

The Medusa Revolver and a load of .357. When that runs out, stick in some 9mm. When that runs out, if it's rougly a 9mm round, stick it in and fire it. :p

I'd probably take a Sig of some manner...maybe the Target model with that 5" barrel for better accuracy? Ammo commonality is key; if you pick a 1911, unless you're alongside some marines or someone packing a 1911 varient, you're up a creek, and it's just that simple.

[AndyC]

I'd probably take a Sig of some manner...maybe the Target model with that 5" barrel for better accuracy?
That would be splitting hairs - accuracy is more a matter of pucker-factor than barrel-length, friend ;)

[whited]

Cause I KNOW that 9mm ball SUX for taking down Haji's

:uhoh:

[.45Guy]

Ya know I always wondered about that term when I was there. If I recall correctly, the character from Johnny Quest was in fact Indian. Sorry for the drift.

[1911afficianado]

I would take my beretta 92 to fit in and mag availability. i would take TAP ammo and then my ar and again my own ammo. you can get all the mags you want and ammo too

[C-grunt]

From my experience the Iraqi Police forces were having no problems or complaints with their Glock 19s. They told me that they loved the power and it would drop the Insurgents pretty good. I remember the police Lieutenant carried a BHP too.

[Creature]

Sig P226...although I find the M9 perfectly suitable. I only wish JHP were not restricted in combat.

[possum]

1911 .45acp for me,

in 9mm then i would take an xd service model, and yes they work great in sandy sitautions i have tested them myself!

[DougDubya]

I'll take a rifle, thank you.

Frankly, I'd take a Beretta 92FS or an M9A1.

9mm ball might not work as well as .45 ball, but the point is to shoot center of mass. The Miami bank robbery shootout wasn't a massacre because one 9mm round didn't stop a killer, the shootout was a massacre because the FBI agents kept MISSING - the one agent who scored an almost fatal hit missed with all 27 of his other shots.

Center of mass, and remember the failure drill/Mozambique. And remember too - don't aim for the forehead, aim for the nasal-ocular area of the face, where the skull bones are more fragile to get to that enemy brain.

Beretta and 9mm - because I do NOT intend to miss one target 27 times.

[Just Jim]

IFI could get 45acp ammo then I would take a 1911. If I could only get 9mm then a BHP to answer your question. However I wouldn't take a handgun at all in a real war.

jj

[S&W620]

I can't say I really care about the caliber, although I'd probably chose either 9mm or 40SW (assuming it was available to me) simply due to the capacity. If forced to use a handgun to fight with, I certainly don't want to be changing mags every 8-9 rounds.

As far as a platform, I would want either an HK USP or a Glock. Other weapons are fine choices, but these are the two platforms I trust and like the most.

[WVMountainBoy]

Well I'm sure this is mostly a handgun question, though a handgun isn't what I'd really want to take into battle...
I'd want a .45 probably the Glock 21 on my hip, atleast two additional magazines.
As for a rifle I'm a country boy who still thinks 22 calibers are meant for rabbits. I'd want a 30.06 prefrably a M1 Garand because I'm familiar with them and can shoot well with it. I wouldn't be happy about the small magazine capability, but I'd feel good about the guns knockdown/staydown power and my ability to hit my target which counts a lot more than just being able to spray bullets and not hit and/or not keep them down.
I know its cliche but I'd still rather be the one with the rhino instead of the hornets...hornets hurt but rhinos demolish.
This goes against my feelings on self-defense, but open warfare is a lot different than the situations you encounter in your area Seven-Eleven.

[Jim K]

Unless things have changed a lot since some friends were there, you take what the Army damned well gives you and if you get caught with a personal weapon you will be court-martialed, reduced in rank, fined and maybe jailed. And if you are caught using hollow point or expanding bullets you will be in double trouble. Freedom of choice in the Army is to do it their way. Maybe the Marines or some other service will haul around tons of personal weapons for you, in violation of all kinds of laws, and supply ammo to boot, but the Army definitely frowns on that sort of thing.

(I find reading here that the guys who claim they would take this or that have not been in the service, and have never been subject to any form of military discipline. The military doesn't like wiseguys who go off on their own to play Rambo, no matter what you read in the gunzines.)

Jim

[john1911]

Going into battle: I'll take . . .

Something crew served.

[dwave]

Pistols are side-arms meant for self-defense, not a battlefield weapon.

I know this is an older thread revived, but I have to put out a name to this one.

Sargent Alvin York.

[Jason_G]

It's already been said that the handgun is far inferior to the long gun for SD, but FWIW, I would much prefer to have a USP45 Tactical or Sig P220 on my hip than the M9.

Jason

[Brian Williams]

I like the idea of a 3" ruger SP101 in 9mm. It would give me something to plink with.

[jamz]

I suppose a glock 19, because it's the only 9mm I've practiced with regularly and am pretty good with it.

[marinepilot81]

High velocity,small rounds are great for a "shoot to wound" mentality and piercing body armor. I'd rather kill than wound, and a man-dress isn't exactly armor.

For ball ammo, the military never should have switched from the 45. I would, however, be less hesitant to cringe over my M9 issue if 9mm hollow points were allowed.

Can you smuggle hollow points in-country?

Big bullets make big holes and big holes bring down big men. 45acp all the way.

[Turk]

I carried a 1911 for four months as a 60 gunner in combat and in my opinion a handgun in combat is a good chow gun. If you need backup I'll vote for Redlegg or ARA.

Turk

[SMMDTD]

If it was me going into battle and had to resort to a side arm i would take the springfield 45acp XD service and plenty of magazines and then hope to find a good SAW or battle rifle (sig556) perhaps also with plenty O' ammo but a tank would also be great to stummble across:neener:

[jasper371]

If i were down to a sidearm, it'd be a ruger p85/p89. Things are tuff as a tank, and if ammo runs low, it'd work great as a club.

[ARTJR338WM]

Socom M-14 and a H&K Elite in .45acp

[Deer Hunter]

I'd probably take a rifle....

And hope to God that I'd never have to use the pistol.

[Tokugawa]

I will take a medic!

[Devonai]

I agree, give me a medic and a 13F. Then maybe my M9 will stay in the holster, like it's supposed to.

[islandphish]

I'd take a 9mm or preferably .45 made by HK or Glock.

Take this last bit as hearsay but I've heard that the more important decision would be holster. It seems that when in body armor and full gear while riding in a Humvee it is pretty difficult to reach your handgun down there on your side. I'm told that our guys are learning to mount their handguns in high front chest crossdraws that are super easy to access while sitting.

[wheelgunslinger]

A full auto CZ 75 or a CZ Skorpion. Yep. They make them.
http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=9&ids=36&idz=228&lang=en

Getting thrown in the brig and disciplined/discharged for breaking the rules would suck.
While I'd ideally like to bring a heavier caliber, I'm afraid I'd just stick with what the DOD told me to use.
A 9mm, well placed, produces non-functioning humans, no matter their political affiliation. Lots of 9mm just speeds up the process. Hence the full auto.

And really, either luck is on your side or it ain't.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have a 45 myself. Or, even a 50 AE that wasn't a Desert Eagle.
But, it's their party. Their rules. And, it's the gub'ment. So, why should it be sensible?

[BikerRN]

I would take the issued weapon with the issued rounds, but my own magazines. This would make getting spare parts and ammo easier. I have heard "horror stories' regarding the issued magazines, hence taking my own.

Any Handgun is way far down on my priority list for combat.

BikerRN

[Firepower!]

Nothing wrong with 9mm M9 Beretta!
I would go ahead with it. However, I think Sig 226 is better for Afghan areas since its built tough. Yet, if the US would allow Russian weapon then Stichken APS 9x18 (20 rds fully auto) or Austrian Glock 18c- these in case I would be counting on my side arm a lot. I think, the focus here should be on the service issue rifle more then side arm, because you rarely end up in a situation where you have to draw your handgun as a last resort.


As mentioned above, Skorpion is also good, but a little too big for side arm, perhaps it should be compared with MP5K, which then it far superior. Question on Skorpion: do they make them in 9mm? All I have seen are either 32 or 22- and in used condition. Last I checked the guy was asking 2000 US$ for it.

[1911 guy]

1911. I use it fairly well and it's got a little more thump than a 9mm in FMJ configuration.

[strangelittleman]

Hmm. A pistol is pretty low on my list of priorities, below spare radio batteries and a good, durable 5"-7" fixed blade knife, which I find more useful in the field than a handgun.
Since you asked, A Browning Hi-Power, CZ 75/P01. would be my first choices for a last resort/ ECQ (Extreme Cose Quarters, ie; tunnel, cave, bunker etc.) weapon.
Although, there is something comforting about having a large caliber Single Action Revolver on your hip, while in harms way! HAHAHA!( Yeah, I'd probably carry one, it worked for my great great great grand father on the border when he rode w/ Pancho Villa) By the way, I like the Beretta M9, it and the 9mm Nato 124 gr. m882 does the job, if the shooter does his........

[ozwyn]

Sitck with the m9, take better ammo, practice more on shot placement.

[Just Jim]

:D:D I forgot to ask, are we taking prisoners or not???

jj:what:

[762plinkster]

I would keep the M9 because there will be mags for it...bring my own mags as well.

then bring a good old glock in 45 as a back up back up

also my kit would have grenades and claymores

and i would have to bring an ak-47 because i could pick up mags...i guess i could pick up the ak-47

plus a good old ka-bar

[tbreed725]

no handgun would be my first choice a good rifle AR or M14 and a shotgun and a handgun i know to be reliable to me.

[CountGlockula]

Glock 18 with 33 round magazine galore.

[ashtxsniper]

I would chooses a SIG 226 in 9mm or 357 sig. If I couldnt have that my 2nd choice would a Glock 20 10mm.

[Funderb]

ak47 + tokarev

most russian surplus can be found out there, easily.

[Pilot]

Some Bell Cobras with 20MM and Zuni rockets.

[jon_in_wv]

I'd carry a chaingun. As long as there are plenty of health and ammo pickups I should be in business!

(First person shooter geeks should get that one)

[dwave]

I'd carry a chaingun. As long as there are plenty of health and ammo pickups I should be in business!

(First person shooter geeks should get that one)

Make Mine a Flak Cannon then! And add a side order of armor with that health and ammo!

(Got to love Unreal Tournament!)

[AJMBLAZER]

Eh, throw in the pissing match here:
Just missed all the fun in the sandbox but I did serve in the Marines relatively recently.

You couldn't give me an M-16A2 willingly. I ALWAYS volunteered for the SAW when we did exercises (I wasn't a grunt) and the plan for "the war" was to pick up the first AK I could get my hands on if I couldn't get a SAW.
Interestingly I later heard this was a common thing as we settled into the occupation and pacification of Iraq and lots of AK's were being "brought along".
I'd say a M-14 but my eyesight isn't super great so I wouldn't want someone to figure me as the DM or sniper.


Again, a pistol is just a back up but as mentioned before if your long arm goes down a pistol beats a rock. There's been several incidents where SNCO's had to use their pistols in house clearing ops that went bad after their guns jammed, went down, got lost, etc in the heat of the fight.
Pistola...well, my ToE never would have included one but the plan was to get better mags for the M9 if I was ever offered one. Friends who had to qual with them always mentioned the scarcity of the real Beretta mags and the crappy quality of the aftermarket mags. Again interestingly this has been borne out in reality. We're currently trying to figure a way to get some jen-u-wine Italian Beretta mags to my cousin's Army dogface boyfriend over in Iraq without anyone getting in trouble. So far no luck.:barf:
Nice police weapon. Accurate but requires to much regular maintenance for my tastes...sorta like the AR family.

Now, based upon some of the stuff I've heard about what's turning up over there and how our guys are often able to pick stuff up and carry it as long as they don't try to take it home in the end...

BHP 9mm in Iraq. Proven, works, common. Apparently the Iraqis couldn't even screw the design up enough to make their local copies not work just fine.

The Army was "demothballing" 1911's and .45 ACP dated in the 60's in the first couple years we were in Iraq to make up for the shortfalls in available pistols. A guy over on www.1911forum.org was issued a real nice Remington-Rand during his time over there in the '04-05 time frame. If I could lay my hands on one I'd be more than happy.

Makarov. If I can't get a HP, 1911, or even a M9 these were pretty common from what I heard a few years ago and hey, again it beats a rock, knife, or a fistfight. Adding another legendary e-tool close combat kill story to the Marine Corps legend would be pretty cool though.;)

Nothing against Glocks but oy, I can't get used to the grip angle. Again however a gun that discomforts my hand is better than a rock.

Also some of the stories of the goofy @ss stuff they would find leads me to beleive that if you really were a good scrounger/trader and found a gun AND ammo in one sitting you could really come up with some interesting stuff.
Chrome plated Series 70 1911's, engraved Colt Pythons, Lugers, gold plated everything, PPK's, Colt SAA's, etc etc etc etc. Apparently if you were high up enough in the local party or just had enough cash you could get whatever the f-you wanted.

[spyderdude]

Beretta 92/M9 or Glock 19.

I'd much prefer to have an AK-47 though!

[gunflask]

I'd bring an M4 with a 203 grenade launcher attached. My side-arm would be a glock 17, g.i. issue bayonet, with the related ammo of course. 4 grenades, 2claymores and I'll have my e-tool and t.p. so I can take a dump.:eek:

[RKBABob]

:neener:
I'm just gonna sit back...
...and let the 94 previous posters do my fighting for me!
:neener:

[wickedsprint]

Well being that I am most likely going into Afghanistan soon I'll comment, but I don't get to choose my weapon. If I could I'd take an M14 and an M9. In the grand scheme of things a .45 is not that much more in terms of knockdown power and I'd rather have the accuracy and capacity of a 9mm, either in a Sig or an M9 and I shoot my M9 and my Sig much better than any 1911 I have ever owned. But I'll probably be stuck with an M4 and and an M9 *shrugs*

[BobbyQuickdraw]

Well since I do own a Beretta 92, it would be traitorous of me to take anything else.

But given the choice, I would still take the Beretta. Its the only gun I've ever fired that has not given me a single problem. Not one. Lots of ammo in the mag, lightweight, built tough, reliable. And 9mm kills people really well, to boot! (Note: Pretty much all bullets kill people really well)

[stevereno1]

Glock 18, Ak-47, Remmy 700 in 300 win mag with all the best glass.

[phoglund]

Smith & Wesson Model 57 .41 Magnum with a 3" barrel. I'd bring maybe 250 rounds of ammo and a couple of speed loaders. I won't need much ammo because I wouldn't expect to have a lot time to plink or practice with it and I wouldn't expect to use it lots in a battle zone. That's what the rifle is for. But when things go south and my rifle takes a $hit I'd like to have something with a bit of authority for back-up and I just don't care for the .44 Mag. Some kind of full coverage cross-draw holster on my chest as suggested earlier sounds like to good place to carry the thing.


Note: I have absolutely no experience in a battle zone but the OP did ask! :D

[Yehen]

With a sidearm being a last defense and pretty much a back up gun if all else fails I'd take a Glock 17 just for the durability and simplicity and availability of ammo. I'd get some really good 147gr +P+ JHP Ammo. Then if the situation did come up where I needed to find ammo I could scrounge around for some. I do think there's an international regulation that prevents the use of expanding bullets in warfare though. I can't see a 9mm FMJ being very effective unless you get a headshot which probably isn't going to happen under the stress involved in the situation you'd have to use your sidearm in. I'm really surprised that the military suplies 9mm 115gr FMJ. USP would be a good choice too but you'd have to bring a bunch of ammo and have it only as a back up gun for that one time when all else fails.

[AJMBLAZER]

The Geneva Convention pretty much limits us to FMJ bullets. No soft points, hollow points, notched bullets, etc etc etc.
Interestingly it is one of the few tenants of that convention that most countries seem to actually follow.

[treeprof]

"The Geneva Convention pretty much limits us to FMJ bullets"

Actually, contrary to popular misconception, it does no such thing. The Hague Convention of 1907 is an agreement to which the US is a signatory party, and it limits "projectiles ... calculated to cause unnecessary suffering". The Hague Peace Conference of 1899, a document to which we are NOT a signatory nation but which we have customarily observed, limits the use of bullets which flatten easily in the human body. It mentions softpoints and incised bullets as examples, but not hollowpoints. Limited use of hollowpoints by the US military has, in fact, been approved, tho their use is typically limited to opposing combatants who are not members of an organized military (e.g. insurgents).

[mljdeckard]

In the age of bullets so effective no one really would have believed it, we are still arming our soldiers based on bullet data over a hundred years old.

It is also interesting to note, the law for hunting big game in Utah actually states, you must use a weapon capable of firing expanding bullets. I guess it's bad to make deer suffer with FMJ ammo, but for some reason the same bullets are more humane to humans.

I will use what I am issued. But if I had the option, I would take the same Kimber 1911 I carry every day. I don't agree at all with the OPs opinion that the more modern designs with full-length rails are more reliable. If the rails are filled with slide, there is no room to collect debris in the first place. I think you will have to dig deep to find a platform more battle-proven and universally liked than a 1911. Having said that, I might look at a wide-frame option, if magazines and ammo weren't scarce.

[Treo]

Going into battle I'd take EXACTLY WHAT UNCLE SUGAR ISSUED ME. My unit absolutely FORBADE anyone from bringing a personal weapon to Desert Storm there are to many legal issues in such a situation , as well as the resupply issues

[bikerdoc]

i would not care to do it again but if i had to

1 as much ammo as i could carry
2 ditto grenades
3 as many crazy 18 year olds as i could find

huuwahhh!!

[lee n. field]

Going into battle: I'll take . . .

Whatever I was issued (as long as it's not a pansy .32 or something:rolleyes:). If it comes down the where a pistol will make a difference, the S has truly HTF.

[1200 meters]

I had basic on M-14 and then later an M-21 system for about 14 yrs.so M-14 is my love. As for pistol I'm fine with a Ruger P97D (.45) single stack mags but only need half the ammo of 9 mm. Any other .45 would do. My other option for rifle would be an AR in .308. BLITZ

[RustyShackelford]

John J Rambo!!!!
:D

[The_woodsman]

1. Full dragon skin body armor.
2. A gun that fires the most common round currently being used on the
battlefield - more than likely 9mm pistol and 5.56 rifle...
2a. A modified, acccessorized (but only what is necessary for the task)
M4 would be sufficient for the rifle.
2b. A single action only high capacity 1911 based pistol with
night sights and a light rail would be sufficient for a side arm. Like others,
I would specify this to have no full length guide rail (a senseless waste of
steel - worse than worthless in a battle situation).
3. A custom colored and sewed (by my specifications) ruck no larger than 35L
and no heavier than 40 lbs. loaded including carried water to organize
other necessary but unmentioned support gear into.
4. Any gear, clothing and boots to my team's agreed specifications.
6. Last but not least, A team of guys that I would feel comfortable completing
the task with.

Too bad most of our troops don't get these choices.

[R127]

So what does everybody expect .45 ball to do that 9mm ball doesn't? There is no such thing as knockdown power so that's out. Standard FMJ isn't going to expand in either caliber. 115gr 9mm can tumble, I do not know if either 124gr 9mm or any .45 FMJ will. I have shot a lot of nuisance animals with different calibers. A non vital hit with a .45 or 9mm loaded with FMJ will not instantly kill a possom do not expect it to instantly incapacitate a human ten or more times larger. In fact non vital hits with high quality HP's don't perform any better.

[DougDubya]

.45 ACP full metal jacket does NOT make a full .45 inch hole. It might make a slightly larger hole than .45 ball, but flesh is elastic, and will part under disruption. However, .45 ball will do far better against bone, unless you aim at the curved bone of the skull. Round meets round results in deflection.

R127 has a point - accuracy and shot placement first.

[Anonymous Coward]

So what does everybody expect .45 ball to do that 9mm ball doesn't?

Make a bigger hole?

Strike the target with twice the mass of a 115-grain bullet?

What else do you want?
...
I would carry a .357 magnum revolver and a box of 50 shells. And if I became necessary to rely on the handgun, I doubt I'd live long enough to use them all.

[Special_K]

http://www.damninteresting.com/wp-content/nuclear_artillery.jpg

This!



No but really, anything that has parts available and can hit a man sized target out to 400 meters.

[romma]

10mm

[R127]

Make a bigger hole?

The bullet is about 1/10th of an inch wider than the 9mm. Ever shot meat with both? You won't be able to tell the difference. Neither will what you shot.


Strike the target with twice the mass of a 115-grain bullet?


What do you expect that to do?

This isn't 9mm versus .45 this is what does an FMJ load from one do that an FMJ load from the other doesn't.

[Doogy]

While serving in the Marines, I performed duties from Presidential Security at Camp David, to a squad leader in the 31st MEU (SOC). While protecting the First Family, I carried both a Sig P226 and an M9, I preferred the latter. With the MEU (SOC), I carried the M9 exclusively.

I have ZERO reservations about the M9, in fact, Beretta 92/96FS are the only weapons I own now as a civilian. The Beretta is a superb choice, with a high magazine capacity, and you can find 9mm NATO rounds on/near any battlefield where we are participating. Taking another gun with a different chamerbed round is not what i'd advocate; when you're out of rounds, you're screwed.

FYI, the Department of Defense doesn't seem to be thinking of getting rid of the Beretta anytime soon, they just placed an order for another 24,000 of them from Beretta USA. Good move, i'd say.

[1200 meters]

My preference is a 45, I have several but one favorite. I must say I've had a Beretta 92 since 1980..and a couple of other 9mms and the Beretta NEVER has jammed and fires anything I put in it. Even some Hand loads that the others will not shoot. BLITZ

[AJMBLAZER]

FYI, the Department of Defense doesn't seem to be thinking of getting rid of the Beretta anytime soon, they just placed an order for another 24,000 of them from Beretta USA. Good move, i'd say.

Keep in mind that's because the .40/.45 SOCOM/Army pistol search and contract has been put on hold when the Army got budgetary cold feet and pulled out. They need the new Berettas to replace the stuff we're wearing out over there.

[kmrcstintn]

2 approaches to this one...:scrutiny:

1) military supply & logistics based...hmmm :confused: Bushmaster Mil-Spec AR15 M4 carbine with newly manufactured mil-spec 30 round mags; Beretta M9 with Beretta distributed 20 round mags; whatever 5.56mm & 9mm ammo that I am given to use; if assigned to CQB then Mossberg 590A1 & whatever 12 guage ammo I am given to use

2) self supplied & logistically based...hmmm :confused: Century Arms imported/assembled Yugo AK 47 w/ underfolder stock & new applicable mags with a generous supply of CommBlock 7.62 x 39 ammo; Glock 17 (just for the sheer survivability of the platform) & new 33 round mags with a generous supply of Euro 9mm NATO ammo; if assigned to CQB then Mossberg 590A1 and generous supply of standard 00 buckshot

[Tribal]

Maybe just a little tweak...I'd like a Beretta 93R.

Well, either that or a chromed-barrel PLR-16. Either one.

[ZeSpectre]

Going into battle: I'll take . . .
A full platoon of Marines and a nice silver bar on my collar, thank you very much. :D

[doc2rn]

+1 to Jim March