Ballistic gelatin test results (07MAR07) - 9mm Luger Golden Saber


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Brass Fetcher
March 8, 2007, 02:29 AM
Firearm : Recoil-operated semi-automatic with 4.02" barrel length

Ammunition : Remington 147gr Golden Saber JHP

Block Calibration : All depths are corrected depths (590 ft/sec @ 10.7cm)

Shot 1 : Impacted at 993, penetrated to 14.5" and had an average diameter of 0.618".

Shot 2 : Impacted at 982, penetrated to 14.5" and had an average diameter of 0.612".

Shot 3 : Impacted at 981, penetrated to 14.5" and had an average diameter of 0.622".

Shot 4 : Impacted at 959, penetrated to 14.5" and had an average diameter of 0.627".

Shot 5 : Impacted at 962, penetrated to 14.5" and had an average diameter of 0.613".

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Joe D
March 8, 2007, 07:39 AM
The results would be more meaningful if you shot through heavy cloth first. There are many rounds that perform wonderfully when shot into bare gelatin, but fail to expand when fired through cloth. Most bad guys tend to wear clothes unless they attack you on the beach.

tnieto2004
March 8, 2007, 09:47 AM
The results would be more meaningful if you shot through heavy cloth first. There are many rounds that perform wonderfully when shot into bare gelatin, but fail to expand when fired through cloth. Most bad guys tend to wear clothes unless they attack you on the beach.

Is this a joke?

GuidoTorpedo
March 8, 2007, 10:36 AM
No, heavy cloth (i.e. Denim) represents the target wearing clothes. HPs can clog and not expand when shot through "clothing" and draping cloth over bare gelatin can simulate this.

But if you're trying to test all HPs on the same level for comparison, then there is no need to throw a variable (i.e. cloth) in there to skew results.

daysleeprx
March 8, 2007, 10:45 AM
Adding cloth would be a confounding variable...not all bad guys wear the same jeans (or whatnot).

strat81
March 8, 2007, 11:27 AM
Very consistent results. Thanks for testing JE223!

grimjaw
March 8, 2007, 12:00 PM
The results would be more meaningful if you shot through heavy cloth first.

Lots of hollowpoints won't expand reliably if they get debris in the cavity. Is your complaint against his site in general or just this one test?

Among the complaints I hear about 147gr 9mm is that it isn't going fast enough to expand reliably and will overpenetrate. In this test it seems to work just fine, with both good penetration and expansion.

jm

DogBonz
March 8, 2007, 12:27 PM
As a kid I read *WAY* too many gun magazines, and as a result, I did a lot of “tests” with my pellet gun and my 22 rifle. Now, I know that the tests that I did were in no way, shape, or form scientific. Also, I don’t know if what I “discovered” in my tests would translate in any way to handgun rounds, but my results were consistent within them selves, so it tells me that my “data” was good.

In said tests, I noticed that some things would indeed stop (or reduce their performance) pellets and bullets better then others. I found out that heavy cloth, like denim or canvas worked well, but cotton (like shirt material) hardly effected bullets.

I just don’t understand the denim tests be cause most of the time, people are wearing denim on their legs, and shirt material over their vitals. Also, if we are testing this to prove a bullet through a jacket, why don’t we test leather? More people wear leather jackets than denim jackets, at least around here.

GunNut
March 8, 2007, 12:32 PM
Very nice consistent results, looks like it would be a very good heavyweight carry load.

skinnyguy
March 8, 2007, 12:45 PM
Looks like that would be a viable candidate for my round of choice for personal defense. Really consistent results and predictable penetration!!

RyanM
March 8, 2007, 12:50 PM
Standard 147 gr Golden Sabers (not bonded) have an excellent reputation for expanding reliably after passing through heavy clothing. They're really absolutely the only round I would be willing to carry, if I owned a 9mm.

Excellent performance, on par with many .40 S&W loads (of course, the .40 S&W 180 gr GS, my personal favorite, perform about as well as many .45 ACP loads).

Feanaro
March 8, 2007, 01:07 PM
I just don’t understand the denim tests

The denim test is not designed to simulate actual clothing. It's just to gauge performance. The logic goes that if it expands despite the denim, it is almost certain to expand when the horse manure hits the fan blades.

the naked prophet
March 8, 2007, 01:57 PM
Come to think of it, I would really like to see tests comparing the expansion of a known round (say, this one tested here) through various media including heavy denim, puffy winter coats (that are inexplicably in fashion year round in some cultural circles), and a leather jacket.

The results might be quite different depending on the round tested. I wonder if someone couldn't get a grant to test all this stuff?

Stephen A. Camp
March 8, 2007, 02:25 PM
Hello and thanks for the post. I appreciate your efforts in both doing the work and posting the results with photographs.

Best.

Brass Fetcher
March 8, 2007, 04:09 PM
Hehehe. I don't know about grants - I don't know if my website qualifies as politically correct - mind you, lots of guns and I even dared once to have a picture of George Washington at Valley Forge on there. .gov won't make it happen, that's for sure! :)

I can do a test like that - since I'm setup for gelatin, there's no ~ 1000USD startup fee for the equipment... just the gelatin block and the fabric and the ammo. :)

DirksterG30
March 8, 2007, 06:50 PM
Thanks for posting that, JE223. I too would be interested in the demin results.

Among the complaints I hear about 147gr 9mm is that it isn't going fast enough to expand reliably and will overpenetrate. In this test it seems to work just fine, with both good penetration and expansion.I think this is earlier-generation hollowpoints. It is true that hollowpoints are designed to expand over a certain velocity range, but ammo manufacturers are now using bullets that expand well at the velocities they are designed for. Look at .45ACP hollowpoints - they go about 800-950fps (if I remember correctly), and they expand just fine.

universal
March 8, 2007, 07:01 PM
Thanks for sharing the test results with us.

saltydog452
March 8, 2007, 07:15 PM
Thank you.

salty.

waynedm
March 8, 2007, 09:20 PM
Thumbs up to 147 grain.

SnakeEater
March 8, 2007, 11:57 PM
<----Most appreciative for your work.

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