Does Colt still make DA revolvers?


PDA






Lucky
March 10, 2007, 12:39 AM
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/revolvers.asp

I can't find them at the website (which is hard to find in itself).

If you enjoyed reading about "Does Colt still make DA revolvers?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ABTOMAT
March 10, 2007, 12:42 AM
Last I heard the civvie branch of Colt had virtually shut down, other than some commemerative guns and similar items. No DA revolvers for years, and I think many of their SA antique repros are actually relabeled imports.

HeedJSU
March 10, 2007, 12:44 AM
According to Wikipedia,

"Colt Manufacturing Co. announced the termination of its production of Anaconda and other double-action revolvers in October 1999"

Hope this helps somewhat. Also according to wikipedia, you could still get the Python from their custom shop as late as 2003. They claim lack of sales and rising production costs in the decision to discontinue manufacturing.

Justin

Harve Curry
March 10, 2007, 09:32 AM
No more DA's.
No Italian parts.
COLT SAA's are made at the Colt Custom Shop, all in the good 'ol USA.
The 3rd generation Colt SAA's are some of the best made now, a great value that will appreciate as always. I know I just bought a new one:)

Neo-Luddite
March 10, 2007, 09:42 AM
If you don't mind me asking, how much $$$ for the Colt? How long was the wait? Is it still original in terms of need to carry on an empty chamber?

Just curious--thanks.

Lucky
March 10, 2007, 12:22 PM
Thanks, how do Tauruses compare?

22-rimfire
March 10, 2007, 12:27 PM
Comparing a Taurus to a Colt is funny.:neener:

No Colt Double Action revolvers manufactured anymore.

Harve Curry
March 10, 2007, 02:16 PM
Neo Ludite,
Mine was engraved, BCC, 44spl, 4 3/4" barrel, with 3 gold lines in the front sight for elevation like in Elmer Keith's book SIXGUNS. Took about 17 months and $1900. I'm happy with it and it's a shooter capable of 8 1/2", 6 shot groups at 100 yards. I told COLT I was going to use it and what I expected.:)

MICHAEL T
March 10, 2007, 02:22 PM
Last I heard the civvie branch of Colt had virtually shut down, other than some commemerative guns and similar items. No DA revolvers for years, and I think many of their SA antique repros are actually relabeled imports.

ABTOMAT
Where do all the new 1911's their making fall . Colt is alive and well Just not makeing DA wheel guns any more. But other Colt guns can be bought.
If it stamped Colt its Colt not walmart china.

byf43
March 10, 2007, 09:14 PM
Lucky wrote:

http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/revolvers.asp

I can't find them at the website (which is hard to find in itself).



Here is the link that I got from your original post.
Custom shop:
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Python_C.asp

Lucky
March 10, 2007, 10:26 PM
Thank you! I'm indebted.

Husker1911
March 10, 2007, 11:18 PM
Thanks, how do Tauruses compare?Running for cover,don't wish to be struck by lightning!

Old Fuff
March 10, 2007, 11:51 PM
The Old Fuff will now rise in defense of the Taurus. :eek:

He finds it to be a well made, reasonably priced shooter, intended for those whose budgets won’t accommodate $1000.00 – and then some - collectables. Unlike the other well known brand, you can “carry six and rest the hammer on a loaded chamber." When put to the test they will punch holes in paper (or whatever) just as well as the higher priced six-shooters.

Now admittedly there is something special about a Colt, but I’m not sure it’s “that special” for the man (or woman) that just wants to bust some caps. And when one considers that the cost of the “made in Hartford,” revolver will buy a pair of the South American contender’s offering, one has to wonder. :scrutiny:

Neo-Luddite
March 11, 2007, 03:42 AM
Thanks for info Harve--it sounds sweet. That was no small sack of gold they wanted for it but if you want an original non-repro---they have the one monopoly on a new one.

Harve Curry
March 11, 2007, 11:41 AM
Yea, about 3 ounces of gold, it use to be a Colt was worth the same as a once of gold and visa-versa.

Old Fuff
March 11, 2007, 01:00 PM
I visited the Colt website (http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Python_C.asp) to see what might be new, and the answer is .... nothing.

The latest posted news item is from June, 2004. They do list a 2006 catalog, but it contains nothing in the way of double-action revolvers. The page on the Python is dated from 2003.

Colt doesn't even seem interested enough to keep their website up to date. Their current production consists of 1911 platform pistols and Custom Shop 1873 Single Actions. These are unquestionably quality products, but they are hardly enough for the company to be considered to be a true manufacturer as opposed to a small, semi-custom shop. This is a sad situation, and an excellent example of what can happen to an old and venerated name in the business when its management during past years - starting just after World War Two - is incompetent.

22-rimfire
March 11, 2007, 05:15 PM
Taurus have been improving on their overall quality (so I hear). I really don't want to put Taurus down. Colt is not the Colt of old any more either. Taurus improved their product line and Colt reduced their's. Colt and Smith & Wesson were always competing head to head. Which was better? Who knows? Taurus was somewhere behind them.

I really want to get one of the Taurus's revolvers that handles the 410 ga and 45LC. And, I am not expecting a substandard product.

Fun2Shoot
March 11, 2007, 05:32 PM
Around my neck of the woods it's rare to see a new Colt anything.

The company is a prime example of total corporate incompetence.

Their failure to read the market demand for 1911's in the mid 1980's through the mid 1990's opened the whole field up to Kimber, Springfield Armory and so on.

What a loss, to see such an historic company like Colt eat itself alive.

larry starling
March 11, 2007, 05:39 PM
Last I heard the civvie branch of Colt had virtually shut down, other than some commemerative guns and similar items. No DA revolvers for years, and I think many of their SA antique repros are actually relabeled imports.
Uh Oh! Colt hasn't shut down there making 1911's, SAA's and Ar-15's. According to Mark at Colt. They are alive and doing well. He also stated they sell every gun they make. Colt's aren't hard to find if you know where to look. Just this weekend myself and two shooting partners went into a LS and we all left with a Colt, And I put another one on layaway.... And Also Colt makes and produces the SAA here in the USA. But at least you were right on one thing. They don't make DA revolvers right now.....:cool:

Old Fuff
March 11, 2007, 06:51 PM
According to Mark at Colt. They are alive and doing well. He also stated they sell every gun they make.

Probably true... The trouble is they don't seem to make very many of them. They've become a relatively small custom shop, rather then what they were - a major manufacturer. Over the years the management keeps discontinuing models without replacing them. A company that was up and coming wouldn't have a website where the latest news was dated June, 2004.

But then, Colt hasn't had any new introductions in years...

I get no pleasure from writing this because I have always been a Colt fan, and a number of older ones remain favorites. But the time comes when one does have to wake up and smell the coffee. :uhoh: :banghead:

larry starling
March 11, 2007, 07:01 PM
Probably true... The trouble is they don't seem to make very many of them. They've become a relatively small custom shop, rather then what they were - a major manufacturer. Over the years the management keeps discontinuing models without replacing them. A company that was up and coming wouldn't have a website where the latest news was dated June, 2004.
I wouldn't say that a company that makes several thousand guns a month a custom shop, I have to disagree with you on that. I also could care less about their website. It functions and it shows what's available. I do wish they would bring back a DA revolver. Such as the Anaconda and the King Cobra. Both pretty decent offerings.;)

Danus ex
March 11, 2007, 07:17 PM
What a loss, to see such a historic company like Colt eat itself alive.

+1. Colt's incompetence is staggering. I carry a Colt DA revolver, and would love to see their whole line back in production (although it's unlikely to ever happen).

dfariswheel
March 11, 2007, 08:41 PM
Many people fail to understand. Todays Colt is NOT the corporate Colt that seemed to try to put the firearms division out of business.

THAT Colt was a tiny part of a huge corporation, that the corporation seemed to be embarrassed of.
Every year or so, the corporation would send down a new firearms division president, and these men usually knew nothing about guns and really couldn't care less.

In order to make a good showing for the corporation brass so they could get a nice promotion out of the "icky" gun part of the corporation, they'd introduce new models, cancel the new models, discontinue old models, reintroduce them again, only to discontinue them again.
All that was necessary was for the firearms division to show a profit for the year or so the president was there.
This uncertainty about what was available or was going to be available made it tough for distributors, FFL Dealers, and customers to know what to expect from Colt.

In the late 90's Colt firearms division went bankrupt and the current Colt is what is left after the corporation dumped it to new investors.
THIS Colt is a MUCH smaller operation, running with a bare minimum of people, and the company was split into two companies.
There's Colt commercial making 1911 and single action revolvers, and Colt military/police making the M-16/AR-15 rifles for the military and police.

To top off the current Colt's problems, among the new owners is the union AND the very anti-gun State of Connecticut.
People rage that Colt won't sell the assault rifle versions of the AR-15, and blame Colt for being "anti-gun".
The fact is the anti-gun State of Connecticut ORDERED Colt not to sell those "awful assault weapons" to "civilians".
When one of your owners orders you to do something, in the end you have to do what the owners TELL you to do, even if it's a bad business decision.

Colt got out of the double action revolver business because their guns were simply to expensive to compete with cheaper brands, and in order to keep the company alive, Col's new management is forced to concentrate their production capacity on money maker guns like the single actions and the 1911 models.

As above, Colt is selling everything they can make, and still can't quite meet the demand, but if they make the slip of spending a lot of money developing a new gun and it fails to sell well, that could put the company out of business.

The bottom line is, Colt is operating on a thin edge and can't afford to make a single slip.
For that reason, right now they're putting their resources into proven best sellers until they can get far enough out of the swamp that they can do other things.

Right now, Colt is making what just might be the best 1911 pistols the company has ever made.
While other makers are using more and more castings and MIM parts, Colt is using more and more forged steel parts.
The company is making a good effort to stay alive by selling core models of their most famous guns, and they seem to be meeting with success.

When people bitterly complain about Colt's business decisions, they're actually talking about a corporate Colt that no longer exists.
THIS Colt is doing the best job it can with limited resources.

loplop
March 11, 2007, 09:04 PM
Colt's are the best kept secrets today. Everyone has moved on to Kimbers on the low end, Wilson's Baers, etc on the high end, and forgotten Colt. Some folks say Colt's are hard to find; no they aren't. Have your dealer order you one. I even have a tiny local dealer who likes Colt's and ALWAYS has stock.

I bought a WWI repro in 2003 and it is a FANTASTIC pistol. To hold and shoot it is to realize maybe Browning got things right the first time around... before all the checkered ambi extended funneled magwell silliness.

Now, some of the pistols that I felt in 2003 from Colt were a little rattly with poor barrel lockup. I like my 1911's tight with well-locked barrel's. So caveat emptor, I guess, but the ones I've felt lately are great. The finishing and craftsmanship are superb.

I took a look at a SAA on a dealer's shelf the other day, and it was a fantastic revolver. If I could justify $1600 on a new Colt right now I'd do it. There are lots of copies, but only one Colt...

IMO there are a lot of really excellent, functional weapons nowadays. In fact, my Colt SAA budget is going to buy me 2 or 3 nice weapons in the meantime... But I will say this: to hold and own one is to hold history, and I will never part with my WWI repro. It's one of those things that will be handed down, long after the other pistols have moved on.

Re: Colt DA. I saw a new in box Python recently. I don't know if they're still being made, but I would guess so as this is at a high volume dealer.

Harve Curry
March 12, 2007, 11:39 AM
So who owns COLT today? How is it run? Is it on the stock market?
I understand that they are in a modern industrial park and the old factory with the Blue Dome is in a ghetto.

Jim K
March 12, 2007, 12:25 PM
When MD and NY passed their "ballistic fingerprint" laws, Colt made a conscious, corporate decision not to provide fired cartridge cases. They also ruled out any attempt to comply with integral lock laws. At this time, that law in MD is nearly moot, since an internal locking device can now be used to satisfy the locking requirement.

But Colt still will not provide a fired case. This does not seem to be any matter of principle, just a writeoff of two states simply because it would be too much trouble to comply. Of course, it would cost money, but the cost would be passed on to the customer, as all costs of doing business are.

Colt has always been short-sighted, zigging when the rest of the industry zagged. They have, since WWII, gone after police and military business, while giving the one digit salute to civilian shooters. When they say they are selling all the guns they can make, they may be right. Three guys with files can't make many guns.

Jim

Old Fuff
March 12, 2007, 10:27 PM
This thread, which is about a year old, pretty well sums it up. Little or nothing has changed since then.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=178238&highlight=Colt+Factory


Colt Factory Tour
By: CT/S.L.


What does it say about the nature of manufacturing in the United States that Colt firearms is no longer located under the fabled blue dome, but in an industrial park in Hartford Connecticut, nestled between an Audi dealership, a Home Depot and a BJ's wholesale club? Does it imply that America of the early 21st century values conspicuous consumption and flash over the more time honored values of hard work, craftsmanship, and building something with your own two hands?

I was about to find out, as I prepared to meet Mark Roberts, the new sales and marketing director for Colt, and a valued contributor on this board. Mark had graciously extended an offer to visit the factory, and living nearby I was happy to take him up on it.

If not for the Colt logo prominently posted outside the administration building, the organization could have been making anything from television sets to radial tires, the first hint that this was not a typical manufacturing facility was when I was confronted at the reception desk by a metal detector, and a sign stating that if I was carrying a firearm, I
needed to declare it to security. There was no indication of what might subsequently happen if I declared a firearm, and since I was sans my sidearm having come directly from work, it was a non-issue. Mark greeted me, and we went to his office in the administration building where it looked like most of the non production related activities (AR, AP, HR, Sales, Marketing, CS, executive offices etc.) were located. We then adjourned to the display room where we got down to some detail on Colt, the process, and the product line.

The display room was impressive, with samples of most every model firearm Colt has produced since its founding. There were Walker Colts, SAA of every caliber and finish, Colt lightning's, Anacondas, Pythons, Troopers, Pony's and of course the ever present 1911. It was here that Mark and I talked about the company today, challenges, opportunities, and the future state of Colt Mfg as he would like to see it. We talked about the separation of Colt Defense from Colt's manufacturing (commercial), and despite the fact that both are located in the same factory, they are in fact completely different entities. In the factory they are separated by a physical fence running down the center of the building, to avoid mingling inventory, or to satisfy auditors I suppose.

Right away Mark made it clear that to try to compare Colt to other 1911 manufacturers is like trying to compare apples to oranges, Colt firearms company of today is a smaller shop than it had been historically. Having visited S&W and Sigarms previously, Mark told me that I should expect something more specialty oriented, more labor intensive, and more dependent on the worker as a craftsman, rather than the worker as a parts "assembler". This led nicely into a discussion of the current workforce, and how the labor situation at Colt has improved since the well-publicized strike of the late 1980's; when some people feel that the quality of Colts product took a dip. I do want to take this opportunity to put to bed one of the most rampant yet esoteric rumors on gun boards; that rumor is that as a result of agreements with the State of Connecticut or that as some term of the bankruptcy proceedings that Colt is somehow forced to hire less than desirable unskilled workers. Mark told me that the average age of the workforce was above 50 years old, and from what I saw during the factory tour (more on that later), he was not kidding. The workers at Colt all seem to be very experienced, and to have a lot of confidence in their work. By some of the hand finishing I was able to see, I could tell that these people were truly skilled craftsman who seemed to take pride in their work.

The conversation then turned to the current Colt model line, and I hit Mark up for any information regarding what we might expect for new offerings from Colt in the near future. Mark made it clear that at least in the short term, double action revolvers (Anaconda, King Cobra, Python, Detective Special etc.) were not being produced, and if they ever were to become available again, they would be made in such a way as to take advantage of advances in manufacturing technology. Mark admitted that given the means of production currently available to Colt, they would have to charge so much for a Python that its price would necessarily limit the number Colt would sell. To explain why, we took a closer look at the Python, and Mark pointed out the hammer and trigger made of barstock, the quality of the internal parts, as well as the hand fitting and polishing required to bring the piece to the quality level people expect of a Python. Some may argue that they would be willing to pay the premium that a Python commands over a 686, but the reality of the world is that Colt is in business to make money, and turning a profit on a $1400 .357 revolver is just not in the cards for Colt at the present time.

I promised you a no holds barred interview and report, so from there the conversation carried over to new products, and I pointed out to Mark that most other 1911 makers had at least one polymer model in their product line, most had at least one high cap model, as well as models with accessory rails. These companies seem to be focusing on the future and making new product development and releases a large part of their marketing and advertising strategy. At the same time, it seemed to me that Colt was taking the opposite tack, and were too eager to fall back on history and legacy in an effort to sell their basic 1911 design. My question was specifically regarding the Colt reproduction models (WWI, WWII, and Series 70) that they released in the last few years, while companies like Kimber were coming out with models like the Warrior, and Springfield had introduced the re-badged HS 2000 as the XD model with quite a bit of success.

Mark fully admitted that he thought Colts market appeal was hurt somewhat by the lack of diversity in the product line, but then mentioned that when Colt made an effort to build a more modern pistol on the 1911 frame (Gunsite), it was their slowest moving model (hence the reason it is not being manufactured at least for the first six months of 2006). I countered with the thought that perhaps some consumers feel that $1400 was a bit steep for a factory pistol, especially when presented side by side on a dealers shelf with a Kimber, STI, or Springfield. Mark agreed and again pointed out that Colts target market was not necessarily those shooters with money burning a hole in their pockets, determined to go out and buy the "flavor of the week" 1911 advertised on the back cover of last months Handguns magazine because they had been swayed by the "neato" factor and some fancy photographs. Mark implied but did not say outright that Colts target market was somewhat more mature, had more disposable income, appreciated hand craftsmanship, could tell the difference between a barstock hammer and a cast hammer, and were willing to pay for that difference.

Before we headed into the factory, Mark made it clear that at least in the short term Colts emphasis would be on 1911's and SAA's, as that was the market where they felt that their history and legacy would be of the greatest benefit to them. I submitted that if Colt was determined to stick with 1911's and SAA's, might it not benefit them to broaden those two
lines, and offer perhaps a longslide model, hard chrome finishes, titanium frames, more caliber choices (10mm, 9mm, 40 Super, 400 Cor-Bon, etc.)

Mark replied that for the time being, Colt had to focus on its core business and if demand for Colt 1911's really take off, additional models may be in the offering, but likely not this year. With that, we went into the factory to see these weapons being made first hand. Before I tell you what you will see in the Colt factory, let me tell you what you will not see. You will not see assembly lines, you will not see huge bins of pre-finished subcontracted parts hammers, ejectors, and other parts, and you will not see parts assemblers working on guns.

When you enter the Colt production building, and after you pass through the metal detectors, the first thing that strikes you is how large the building housing Colts Mfg really is, and how few people you see working there. The area where the double action revolvers had been built is cleared out now to make room for future expansion, again this not to say that the revolvers will never be back, but looking at the factory floor it is apparent that it won't be anytime soon.

I have to admit that my first thought when entering the shop floor was "where are all the workers?" This was around 2pm on a Friday, so I asked Mark if perhaps Colt ran their shifts 6am-2pm, but he assured me that the workers were present, and that we would meet them as we toured. The smell was the unmistakable blend of cutting oil, machine grease, and metal shavings that will be familiar to anyone who has spent much time around machine shops. Milling machines, lathes, drill presses, and polishing wheels abounded around the edge of the building, and one got the immediate impression that there were a lot more machines than people, just waiting to be used.

Given the uproar recently on internet boards regarding the presence of MIM and cast material in areas where the original ordnance specs did not call for them, I was pleased that one of our first stops was to look at the raw materials used in the fabrication of the hammers. I saw pieces of barstock several feet long, formed in the profile (side view) of the various spur hammers used by Colt on their 1911's. If you picture the way your deli slices ham, the principle was the same, each hammer "sliced" from this piece of barstock would have the same profile, and would only await final machining, fitting and polishing. I had heard the term "barstock" hammer before, but it never really clicked until I saw it in person. Mark then let me compare a cast hammer from an aftermarket parts manufacturer to the barstock hammers Colt was producing. Side by side you could just feel that the barstock hammer was superior, it was denser, and had the feeling of being more substantial than the cast model. Mark was quick to point out that there is nothing necessarily wrong with a cast hammer, but that Colt prefers to use barstock, because Colts customer base can tell the difference.

I go into some detail here on the hammer because to me it sums up Mark and Colt's attitude toward the entire process of manufacturing a 1911. The new ways are not necessarily bad, but they are not necessarily better than the old either. Some companies feel that there is value to the traditional materials and method, and they are betting that there are consumers who feel the same way. That is Colts market, those customers for whom the traditional methods materials make a difference, and who are willing to pay a bit extra for it. I would be lying however if I told you that I did not sense a little of the "we have the most recognizable trademark in the industry, and much of that cachet is based on tradition, so lets play up the fact that we are remaining true to the traditional methods" attitude among the folks at Colt. Since Colt does have money tied up in traditional machinery, a valuable trademark and history, and a very experienced workforce adept at making 1911's using these machines who can blame Colt for playing to their strengths?

I was very impressed by the blueing operation, although like so much of Colts plant it seemed grossly oversized for the number of pistols I saw being built. I guess you could look at it one of two ways, either Colt is gearing up to be ready for the rush or expected orders, or they are doing only a small percentage of the number of pieces that they did in their heyday, sadly I got the feeling that the latter was the case rather than the former. It was a bit melancholy, as one could easily picture in ones mind 5X the numbers of workers being present, building 1911's, Pythons, SAA's and detective specials, and the place humming with activity; then I was jolted back to reality by the single worker lifting a single rack of 1911 slides from the blueing tanks. It was the same throughout the rest of the factory as well, and I couldn't shake the idea in the back of my mind that there was a huge amount of money invested in machinery just sitting idle. Once you spend the money for the equipment, you want it running, as idle equipment makes money for no one. I admit given the vintage of some of the equipment (vintage meaning simply old, I don't want to give anyone the idea that the factory was dirty or junky, on the contrary, the equipment I saw seemed in good working order and well cared for the most part, which made its idleness even more ironic I thought) it is likely paid for and off the books decades ago, so the financial effect of the idle machines is mitigated somewhat.

From the blueing operation we looked into the area where Colt makes the polishing compound they use to obtain the beautiful high gloss blue you will find on certain Colt firearms. I can't go into any detail about the compound as it is proprietary, but I can tell you that if your great grandfather owned a 1911 or a SAA, then it was polished using the same compound that Colt is using today, and no, you can't buy it in stores. Just another example of little things that set Colt apart. Is there anything wrong with matte oxide bead blasted finishes? Certainly not. Will some people always prefer and be willing to pay for high luster Colt blue? Yes they will, and Colt will be happy to provide it. I should also point out at this time that all the polishing at Colt is done by hand, sitting in front of a polishing wheel. We are not simply talking about polishing out casting defects (Colt doesn't use cast frames or slides), we are talking about buffing the product to a mirror shine. Now I grant you I can imagine polishing the flats on a 1911 slide, but you should see the polishing and level of detail that goes into finishing a Colt SAA. If ever there were a gun designed not to be polished by hand, it is the Colt SAA, originating before most modern manufacturing processes, it is full of curves, bends, and subtle contour changes, but Colt feels that hand polishing is the only way to get the finish right. Polish too hard, and you take off too much blueing, polish too lightly and you will have variation in luster from one area to the next. To watch the craftsman turn the SAA over in his hands against the polishing wheel, for just the right amount of time, with just the right amount of pressure, and to watch the mirror finish develop is like poetry in motion. Anyone can run a CNC machine with a little training, but it takes time and dedication to develop the skills necessary to polish a SAA by hand.

Working backward a little, as we already saw the final polishing, Mark showed me the forged billets of steel that would become slides and frames, I was surprised at how large and heavy the billets were, and remarked to Mark that his waste percentage by weight must be huge in the machining process. He agreed, but stated that only by starting with oversized billets could Colt be sure that the finished product would be suitable, with a smile pointed out that that it was easy to machine material away, much harder to put it back on again. Even the small parts like the ejector were machined from a solid steel plate, done the traditional way, and fit by hand.

Once all the parts were machined and assembled, we walked through the area where the pistols were finally built. At each workstation were bins of small parts (hammer struts, hammer strut pins, barrel links, mainspring housings caps and pins, among others) admittedly not all manufactured on site but all seemingly of the highest quality. At each bench was a single person with their own tools building a single pistol, one person might build several pistols per shift, but each one would be built by one pair of hands one at a time. I saw no obvious rushing during building, the pieces were carefully mated together, the fit was checked, then adjusted and checked again until the craftsman (or woman) was satisfied. You will note that I am not using the word assemble, because at least in my mind that has the connotation of an assembly line, or an unskilled laborer simply putting parts together in hopes that they fit; this was most definitely not what was going on at Colt. These were obviously skilled workers, who were more interested in seeing that things were right rather than easy.

You may wonder with this level of hand building and checking how some of the quality issues that have popped up with Colt pistols could get out the door. I wondered the same thing, and Mark and I talked for a while on the subject. You see hand building can be a two edged sword, on the one hand you have the attention to detail and the ability to think and adapt to various situations that no CNC machine and assembly line will ever duplicate. On the other hand you are going to introduce a more subjective construction and inspection scheme. On a CNC machine it is easy to tell if something is in or out of tolerance, when a human being is grinding, or drilling, or polishing, or fitting a piece, their subjective decision as to where to stop is going to influence the tolerances of the finished piece. Sure micrometers, gauges, spec sheets and go/no go tolerances are used, and
sure we as the buying public expect perfection for our hard earned money, but the bottom line is that products built by hand will have more variation than those built by machine.

Old Fuff
March 12, 2007, 10:35 PM
At this point, we got into a conversation regarding customer expectation vs. reality. Mark emphasized again and again that Colt pistols are designed and built to function properly the first time, every time. His actual words were that people who buy a Colt know that if they take care of it, their grandchildren will have a gun to be proud of. We discussed the fact that Colt still build their 1911's to the original ordnance specs, with the original tolerances. Not English units "converted" to metric, not "tweaked" to give a tighter frame to slide fit, but the original specifications. The choice to manufacture to these specifications means that a Colt 1911 will have a slightly looser frame to slide fit than some of the contemporary production models from Kimber, SA, and others. but then Mark confirmed my own personal feelings that in a non-bullseye gun, these original tolerances are actually desirable. We sometimes forget that the 1911 was originally designed to be a cavalry pistol, and to be subjected to the mistreatment of soldiers in the field, with this in mind, the gun had to be reliable under all conditions; clean, dirty, muddy, cold, hot, over lubed, un-lubed, etc, and that the wider tolerances allow the gun to work properly and as it was designed.

Given the lockup of the 1911 design, it seems that frame to slide fit has little to do with mechanical accuracy, and in fact a "loose" gun does not necessarily mean an inaccurate gun, while a gun that is too tight does generally mean that under field conditions it will be more unreliable then a gun with more generous tolerances. Now we are not talking sloppy here, but a little noticeable play between the slide and frame is to be expected, and even welcomed in a gun that is likely to see hard use. You may agree or disagree with the above, but in my experience it is true, and Mark expressed the same basic idea. It is also my experience that in a Ransom Rest a bone stock Colt will print groups equal to or better than similar models from other manufacturers, this in my mind is a tribute to the time taken to fit the rest of the components (bushing, link, bbl lugs, etc.) which really do have an impact on mechanical accuracy. And if you get that accuracy plus the reliability factor that Colt manufactures in by using the original specs as well, who can complain about that?

Staying with the idea that Colts are designed and built primarily to work, I hit Mark up for more information about some of the QC issues specifically noted on this board. To his credit, Mark never tried to side step responsibility, or minimize the nature of the complaints, and in fact admitted that on some occasions when he sees a gun returned for
service, he winces because the defect should have been obvious. But I assure you that Mark is working his fingers to the bone trying to root out and eliminate the causes of these QC errors, and I would like to interject a personal point here, the following is my opinion only, and does not reflect the opinion of Mark or of Colt: All manufacturing companies make mistakes, no QC program is 100%, and unfortunately some of those mistakes make it to the customer. In my experience companies measure both the frequency of the mistakes (defective PPM internal and external. and no I did not get those numbers from Mark) and the severity of the mistakes. In the case of Colt, when you hear complaints about the guns, it seems to almost always be something cosmetic, or something which does not affect the functioning of the gun, (whose purpose is to project a tiny piece of lead and copper very rapidly onto a target of the shooters choosing). Think about the following: polished areas bleeding into matte, the line between the flats and the rounds not being straight, the flats on one side of the slide being higher than the other, slide overhanging the frame (or vice versa), hammers off center, recoil spring channels wider
on one side than the other, and the myriad other QC issues Colt has had, few of them affect the functionality of the gun. Now I am not apologizing for the mistakes, or even saying that they are inevitable, what I am saying is that because you are holding a Colt, the gun will shoot in spite of any cosmetic defects. I personally have been left holding another brand of 1911 when the MIM grip safety broke in two (one would not think grip safeties are subject to much force, but c'est la vie), and I can assure you the gun was rendered non-functional immediately. I think if you look on other sections of this board, you will see that no man made brand of 1911 is problem free, and when compared to some of the catastrophic failures you see, cosmetic issues (while still a problem) can be seen as fairly minor defects.

The cosmetic QC issue also has to do with the customers' expectation of what he (or she) deserves to get in exchange his/her hard earned money. For the $600-$1400 you lay out for a 1911 pistol (we are talking factory guns, not custom shop) do you expect a gun that shoots 1" groups at 100 yards while feeding 200 gr full wadcutters, and having the fit and finish of a museum piece, with 100% reliability? If so it is likely that you are going to be disappointed with any gun. If your intention is to buy a 1911 to put in a display box or museum, then you will value the cosmetic aspects of the fit and finish over the functionality. If instead you are going to be shooting bullseye competition, the accuracy potential will outweigh the cosmetics, and if the gun is destined for carry or use in LE or military, reliability with simple combat accuracy will be of paramount concern. Now there are some companies who make beautiful guns, some companies who make accurate guns, some companies who make very reliable guns, and some companies who try to balance the three. Will a box stock Colt 1911 ever have the cosmetic generic sameness as a CNC'ed 1911 with MIM parts? Probably not. Will a box stock Colt 1911 shoot as small a group as a customized bull's-eye longslide. probably not. Will a Hartford built Colt 1911 look good, have good combat accuracy, and most importantly go bang every time you pull the trigger? And will it hold its value and still shoot well for your grandchildren? Well that is Colts mission, not to compete with the huge MIM houses, and not to compete with the one-man custom shops, but to provide a hand built, forged steel, original design, 100% reliable 1911 using the best components available in a factory pistol today. Do they always meet that goal? Honestly no, but what man made product is ever perfect? Do they come pretty close? I think so. Do they acknowledge that there is room for improvement? Yes they do. Are they taking steps to enact that improvement? Yes they are, and Marks presence here on the board is proof of it. If there is something wrong with your Colt, they will make it right. Granted this is of little solace to the person who gets the pistol with the recoil spring channel machined off center, or the person who polished flats bleed into his matte rounds, or the person who's slide sits 1/32" too far forward on his frame, but do any of these issues render the gun unfit for its intended purpose? And if you do have a problem with any Colt you buy, I assure you that Mark wants to make you happy.

You may be thinking by now that I have some sort of agenda here as my review has been pretty much 100% favorable to Colt thus far. I freely admit that I was impressed by the
operation, and by Mark, and by the company as a whole, but I did promise you an objective analysis and this must include the warts and all (lets face it folks, every company has them in one form or another), so I wanted to comment on some of the things that I thought could be improved. And please bear also bear in mind that this was based on a 2 hour tour, and my observations with regard to some of the challenges facing Colt may be as incorrect some of my more flattering observations above. Nevertheless here are some of the things that I saw as potential issues, and you will have to pardon me if I fall into a bit of a production engineer mindset, as that and efficiency management were primary areas of concentration during my formal education.

Old Fuff
March 12, 2007, 10:44 PM
Graying of the workforce

If pressed, I would have to guess the average age of the employees on the Colt factory floor was around 50 years old, I only saw a couple employees in their 30's, and none who I thought were in their 20's. There are a few problems with this, starting with the fact that older employees generally have more seniority and a higher salary, which drives costs up. Companies with large percentages of older employees also tend to have higher health care premiums, and higher prescription drug costs. For operations that rely on human beings to perform tasks in place of machines, driving down personnel costs is critical. Colt is a union shop, and no one wants to return to the adversarial days of the late 80's, but I have to ask, where are the young workers, the apprentices, the people who will be building the Colt 1911's in 20 years? If Colt still plans to make the 1911's the traditional way, or expand back into the DA revolver market they are going to need to staff up with skilled labor, while keeping costs as low as possible.

Lack of variation in the product line

We touched on this a bit earlier, when I talked about the fact that Colt discontinued the DA revolvers and now focuses exclusively on 1911's and SAA. If market research had indicated that this was indeed the way to go, then that would be fine, but I get the impression that Colt is forced toward a Spartan product line more by necessity than by choice. When queried about the possibility of a reintroduction on the 10mm round top Delta Elite, or the reintroduction of the Colt Pony, or a longslide model, all were dismissed as being unfeasible at the current time. Don't get me wrong, I love the look of a traditional 1911 with vertical rear serrations, no front serrations, and a spur hammer, but Colt can't make a living catering to just to me. Other companies have polymer designs, other companies have high cap 1911's, other companies have 10mm's, other companies offer light rails on their pistols, not because they are necessarily better, but because in today's market the customer demands almost infinite variety. If Colt can remain competitive only offering 1911's and SAA, then more power to them, but there is a vast untapped market of consumers who will might never get to know their product because they don't want 7+1 rounds of 45 ACP in a 37 oz. gun when they can get the new XD with 14 +1 rounds in a lighter polymer package. I just get the sense that while the traditional buyers are supporting Colt today, Colt needs to be thinking about who will support the company tomorrow.

Lack of Advertising

Lets face it, advertising sells guns. This is especially among the crowd who are easily swayed by the latest and greatest gadget, or the slickest photos in the latest gun magazine. I did not chose the XD example above by chance, as SA had to spend some big money to purchase the entire front cover of this months Guns and Ammo, in essence turning the entire magazine into an advertisement for the new 45ACP XD. Ask yourself when was the last time you saw a full page Colt advertisement even on the back cover of Guns and Ammo? How about inside? How about just half a page? When was the last time you saw Colt beside Benelli in advertising on TV? When was the last time you saw Colt sponsor a major shooting event, or saw them sponsor a major shooter (like the Koenig/S&W or Langdon/Sig or Leatham/SA partnerships?). I am concerned that Colt is falling behind in advertising, and Mark acknowledges this. I am convinced that Mark recognizes the value of advertising, and is doing his best in a difficult job, and his participation on this board speaks volumes to this intent.

Focus on the past to the exclusion of the future

I debated adding this point, as it is really a conglomeration of the other points I have made thus far, but none of the others really capture the essence of what I am trying to say. I got the distinct impression that Colt may be too focused on the past, at the expense of the future. I am not saying that heritage, or being proud of your legacy, or exploiting a
trademark that has been bolstered by generations of good will is a bad thing, only that it needs to be balanced by a realistic plan for the future (which I am sure Colt has). Part of my concern has to do with the limited (IMHO) product line, part has to do with the perceived lack of innovation, and part has to do with the intangible attitude I sensed at the factory that "we are Colt, we have done it this way since the dawn of time, and I don't see a reason to change now". Now perhaps I am misreading that, and the actual reality is, "we are Colt, and we believe that after almost a century, we know how to make the best 1911, so why not capitalize on our experience, tradition and good name in the industry". Either way, it bothers me that when Colt announces a new model, it is almost invariably a reproduction. Consider the WWI repro, the WWII repro, the Series 70 repro etc, it reminds
me of the Bruce Springsteen song "Glory Day's". Now do the reproductions sell well? Sure they do. Are they well built guns? Sure they are. Is there a market for them? Sure there is. Do I like the look of the repros? Sure I do. Do they show me anything new from Colt? Not really. Are they groundbreaking? Not by a long shot. When your business plan is to re-introduce an exact replica of a gun that you made almost 100 years ago, while you don't have a single polymer model, 10mm, longslide, or even a high cap 1911 in
your product line can you honestly tell me you are focused on the future growth of the company, and that you are actively trying to position yourself to be where the market will be, not where it is today. I am not trying to tell Colt that their marketing plan is wrong, I hope it was put together by people smarter than me who did their homework and told Colt that they could make gobs of money just selling reproduction 1911's and SAA for the next 50 years, and I further hope that their plan pays back huge dividends. I hope I am wrong about Colts market share, but my instinct tells me that gearing your production only to what the market demanded in the past is like trying to drive your car only by looking in the rear view mirror.

The need for Modern Manufacturing Best Practices

I know it sounds like a cliché‚ but to be successful in today's domestic manufacturing environment, you have to be lean (both figuratively and literally), and you have to have some form of best manufacturing practices underway. Whether this is ISO 9000, formal Kaizen events, 5S programs, or even a simple value stream mapping exercise is the companies choice. Colts Mfg. (not sure about Colt Defense) is not ISO 9000 certified, and in my opinion (just from watching the work flow on the shop floor) might benefit from some of these programs.

In the end, I came away from my visit to Colt with mixed feelings, my heart was glad to see a manufacturing company in New England, with an appreciation for the value of quality and hand manufacturing. I think this comes through in the types of raw materials and manufacturing methods employed by Colt. My more analytical side, which was looking at Colt's Mfg as a business and in competition with other gun manufacturers was a bit more realistic. As I mentioned, I am not privy to Colt's business plan, and it may be that they don't want to compete with the S&W's, SigArms, and Kimbers of the world, and that they are happy being a niche player and catering to their market. As Mark pointed out, it is better to be a $10 million dollar company turning a profit, than a $10 billion dollar company hemorrhaging money. Perhaps I am biased by my time in the paper industry, or in manufacturing in general, but the Connecticut River valley is littered with textile and paper mills that once upon a time catered to a niche market and made money. I am sad to say that the lions share of these mills are now closed, and the ones that survive are skeletons of their former selves. I blame this mostly on lack of innovation and an unwillingness to change right up to the point where they locked the doors. Unfortunately Colt is operating with many of the same challenges that these paper and textile mills did:

They are competing with overseas interests who have lower labor costs.

They are geographically located in an area with some of the highest labor costs in the country.

They are utilizing labor intensive processes.

They are operating vintage equipment.

They are currently limited in the products they offer.

None of these challenges are insurmountable, but they become more and more challenging the longer they are left unaddressed. From what I saw on the tour and visit, I have the utmost faith and confidence in Colts current management, but they are fighting an uphill battle, not entirely of their own making. They are faced with the classic manufacturers dilemma, how to balance quality, cost, and speed, in such a way as to remain profitable, make a product that consumers want, and defend against competition. There is no doubt in my mind that Colt wants to make the best out of the box 1911 you can buy, and that they want to use the best parts, and never compromise quality and heritage in the name of expediency or short cuts in methods or materials. I only hope that Colts management will experience continued success with their business model, and will triumph in spite of the difficult situation they find themselves. There is no doubt Colt faces completion in the marketplace, and many of those competitors are manufacturing companies who just happen to make guns, and would run their facility the same way if they were making cars, refrigerators, or cellular phones. That is to say the actual product being manufactured takes a back seat to production metrics themselves.

Colt is not that type of company, Colts purpose is to make the best guns they can, they happen to use a manufacturing processes to create the guns, but they are first and foremost concerned with the product itself. When it comes to putting my hard earned on the table, if I were in the market for a 1911, then I could not imagine a better one for the money.

I guess I would sum my feelings up this way. There are manufacturing companies who just happen to make guns, and then there are gun makers. Colt is a gun maker, always has been, always will be, and I sincerely hope that they have long and prosperous future, so that generations of shooters can know how good a Hartford Colt really is.

========================================================================

Colt unquestionably has one of the most famous names in the industry. But obviously the picture presented above is not bright. What they really need is something their corporate owners have so far been unwilling to give - a serious imput of funding. Until then the handgun part of the company will never amount to much as it slowly goes under while other competitors are getting rich selling copies of Colt's products. It is truly sad.

Deanimator
March 13, 2007, 09:03 AM
I get no pleasure from writing this because I have always been a Colt fan, and a number of older ones remain favorites. But the time comes when one does have to wake up and smell the coffee.
I wish somebody would buy them, the way CZ bought Dan Wesson.

Of course I wish Dan Wesson would start making normal sized revolvers again...

loplop
March 13, 2007, 10:32 AM
I played right into Mark's words:
But I will say this: to hold and own one is to hold history, and I will never part with my WWI repro. It's one of those things that will be handed down, long after the other pistols have moved on.

It is interesting to me. Even as a new shooter, I ascertained this quite quickly. To have and to hold a Colt is sortof a "final" thing. You feel secure in the purchase, not the feeling so many gun owners have of "ok, well, on to the next purchase." You have a Colt in your hand, and if it's a good one, you don't really NEED another. It's not like the flavor-of-the-month club. You KNOW that pistol is going to last a lifetime. I KNOW it will outlast me. And I will hand it on.

Pretty cool. Maybe I should buy that SAA before they're gone.

Kimber1911_06238
March 13, 2007, 10:38 AM
Colt doesn't make DA revolvers anymore....I know a guy that works for Colt and he told me that Colt won't be making them anytime in the near future because most of the people that knew how to make them had retired or left the company. They are making enough money with the SA cowboy action crowd that they are uninterested in going back into the DA market.

Old Fuff
March 13, 2007, 11:10 AM
But I will say this: to hold and own one is to hold history, ...

I certainly believe in this, but frankly a new Colt doesn't have much history attached. An old one does. Rather then buy a reproduction (made by Colt) of a World War One pistol, why not buy an original one? The price difference isn't always that great. :scrutiny:

Old Fuff
March 13, 2007, 11:27 AM
They are making enough money with the SA cowboy action crowd that they are uninterested in going back into the DA market.

Highly unlikely, if you are thinking in terms of a full-line manufacturer. The cowboy action shooting game is dominated by Ruger, followed by various single action clones.

They aren't building double-action revolvers because they don't have, and can't hire, people with the necessary skills to build their older models, and they don't have the money to design and tool a new line of revolvers that could be made with less skilled help.

At the present time Colt's is on a cash-in-advance status with most of its suppliers. To get ahead they have to generate enough cash flow to build more guns, which is difficult at best because their operation is set up for mass production, which they aren't doing. Think of a huge car factory that only turns out a few hundred cars a month.

Colt won't come back until someone does what the present corporate owners aren't doing - invest some truly big bucks. :banghead:

loplop
March 13, 2007, 01:27 PM
I agree with that Old Fluff; they have to find an owner flush with cash, ready to push the product. Kinda like ducati in the motorcycle world... After a heavy inflow of cash they're as readily available as any bike from the land of the rising sun, heavily advertised, and sold at a premium price. That could be Colt.

This is MHO only, but the way I see it a new gun made by an old manufacturer with traditional methods has history. The history of the company. They way they are built. The machines they're made with. The people's hands assembling them (see article above). We're not talking a CNC milled MIM filled mass produced Kimber. We're talking about a Colt, produced the same way as they used to. With all their idiosyncrasies.

Some don't agree, that's OK. Everyone likes different stuff!

And as far as buying an old 1911 for historical interest, I've been trying to do that for years, just haven't found "the right one." I will. Hopefully I can afford it when the time comes. One reason to buy a repro: to feel what the "first user" would have felt upon receiving the pistol. All the wear marks come from you. It becomes YOUR history, and I like that.

For all my guns are shooters and are carried... Because I have no time for safe queens :D

Anyway, interesting stuff. I saw a used Colt Detective the other day at a gun shop, was $249. I thought it was pretty fair, and liked the piece, but decided to sleep on it. Unfortunately when I came back it was gone. Shoulda grabbed it, it was pretty nice.

Golddog
March 13, 2007, 02:00 PM
A couple of years ago, Gun Tests tried one of Colt's current SAA's, and it was full of flaws. They rated it well behind Italian copies that cost a third of what Colt was asking.

tipoc
March 13, 2007, 02:01 PM
A fews things on Colt. Excuse the length but it may be worth it to read.

COLT DEFENSE LLC

Colt is divded into two seperate corporate entities. The defense side (Colt Defense LLC) and the commercial. The former has about 384 employees and the latter 84. Together they generated $80 million dollars in sales in 2004. Most of that was on the defense side but the commercial side was profitable as well.

On the defense side; while Colt lost out in bidding for makeing the M16 A4 rifle, which it had made for years for the U.S. military, it continues to make many of these for overseas sale. It continues to make the M4 which it is the U.S. governments sole provider of till 2009. It last year received an order for an additional 50,000 M4s.

Colt Defense LLC also acquired the Logistics and Defense Division of Diemaco of Canada last year and opened this as Colt Canada Corp. where they have begun production of small arms for the Canadian police and military as well as troops for several NATO countries.They are the sole supplier for Canada of the M16 and M4 type weapons.

Colt Defense LLC has plans to go public on the stock market, possibly this year.

THE CIVILIAN SIDE

As I said they have just over 80 employees. They ceased making the Python last year evan as a custom shop option. Too few sales, a fella who would spend 1500 on an older Python was not buying the newer ones. The hand fitting involved was also expensive. Colt is making small investments in some new CNC equipment and may at some point in a couple of years reintroduce a new revolver. It won't be this year. Don't hold your breath waiting.

They make close to 2,000 guns a month and these sell quickly. Over the last few years they have introduced many variations of the 1911 and have made a number of technical improvements to the guns.

Colt continues to make all it's guns and most componants from forged parts. The slides and frames and many of the internals are made and fited in house. Some of the smaller parts are contracted out. According to an interview with U.S.M.C. Leiutenant General Keys, the CEO of Colt, last fall, they have a problem finding the sources for the parts they do contract out for at the quality and materials they want. (I should mention that Keys was the first "gun guy" to be a CEO at Colt for decades) They continue to make the 1911 to mil spec. With the exception of some guns like the Enhanced Combat, the Defender, the dimpled barrels, cone barrels etc. which are obviously not mil spec. Spec in terms of fitting and tolerences.

Keys also stated in the same interview that another problem they have is in recruiting young engineers with firearms background. Those that are interested tend to go to military contracters, some hesitate to move to the North East, etc.

The civilian side has also formed an alliance with UCT coatings of Fla. for the development of new "greaseless" coatings for weapons. This is still in the research stage.

The civilian side is profitable. They sell all the 1911s they make. They sell all the SAAs they make. For the latter they have introduced new chamberings. They are researching the possibility of building the SAA in stainless.

They have made significant strides in improving their customer service.

WHO OWNS COLT?

In 1990 Colt was sold to a number of private investors including the union and the state of Mass. The union had worked hard to keep Colt from going out of buisness alltogether at this point and helped to develop the idea of "saving" it by buying it. (One of the investors, who owned over 80% of the Co. was the Zilkha Group.)

In 1992 Colt filed for bankruptcy protection.

In 1994 the Zilkha Group of N.Y. (google them for more info) bought Colt and brought them out of bankruptcy. They seperated the divisions and still own Colt today.

Much of the info here is taken from an article in the Sept 8, 2006 issue of Gun List mag.

tipoc

Danus ex
March 13, 2007, 04:59 PM
Colt can probably stay afloat by doing what they're doing now. However, if they ever want to grow back into what they used to be, they're going to have to take a risk of some kind. Whether that means going into debt and investing in new tooling or engineering depends on Colt. General Keys may be a gun guy and he may be keeping Colt alive, but his strategy is too conservative to do anything but idle in the marketplace. By producing SAAs and 1911s, Colt's civilian division is certainly playing to its strengths, but unfortunately Colt has staked it's livelihood on products that have a pretty static demand and a slew of competitors. If it weren't for their quality, Colt might not have a place at all, even with their reputation.

The worst part about Colt's plan is that they're sitting on a bunch of intellectual property that isn't making them any money (Detective Specials, Pythons, Mustangs, 1903s, Delta Elites, etc.). They should use it, sell it, or get royalties paid to them by other manufacturers who make these guns instead of Colt. Anything but nothing.

Man of Brick
January 23, 2011, 11:50 AM
I really enjoyed reading this 2007 thread about the current state of business affairs at Colt. Now that it is four years later, I see that Colt has expanded their offerings a bit with their new 1911 rail gun. What other things have changed about Colt, their manufacturing capabilities or their products in the last four years?

Guillermo
January 23, 2011, 12:53 PM
The story of Colt is a sad one. Once a major manufacturer. Now they just make retro stuff and apparently they have a custom shop.

Unless I consider purchasing a new 1911, their only value to me is as a parts company and repair shop (which is not to be undervalued)

Guillermo
January 23, 2011, 12:55 PM
I saw a used Colt Detective the other day at a gun shop, was $249

letting that one get away was a BAD move

788Ham
January 23, 2011, 01:52 PM
I'm so glad I bought the 6" Python I have, not realizing at the time these wouldn't continue to be made in the future. So sorry I let the 4" one I also had get away!!! Old Fuff, thanks for taking the time and effort to type your experiences with us, I truly appreciate your efforts in this regard! Like many things of years gone by, so many things gone, never to appear as they once were, sadly true in this screwy world of ours. I'll truly treasure mine each time I hold it.

tlmkr38
January 23, 2011, 05:52 PM
Colt let the civilian market down by stopping production of their revolvers in 1999. I had bought a Kong Cobra, Ananaconda and Detective Special. They were reasonably priced in line with Smith and Wesson and I think well made. Also bought the All American 2000 and the Colt 22 which is agreat shooting pistol.

I saw people buying them all the time at gun shows and the stores around here didn't keep them long. I think what happened is that Colt got their government contract back from Fn and decided they made enough money on that and didn't need to stay in the civilian revolver market. That and their 1911's still sold well. I which they had continued to build and develop guns for the civilian market as I think they were doing good and developing alot of new and good products.

This and their high pricing now are the only things I hold against Colt. They make a good gun but it's not that much better than Springfield or Kimber ( which in my opinion are also getting over priced.

dfariswheel
January 23, 2011, 09:42 PM
The manager of the Colt Custom Shop posts on the Colt forum.
He's told us that Colt definitely has a double action revolver in the works.

Colt has introduced a new double action 1911 style pistol and is bringing back one of the small pocket autos.
They'll be introducing the stainless steel Single Action Army later this year.
They've brought out a new .308 AR type rifle and are again offering the non-PC versions of the AR rifles and carbines.

Sounds like they aren't exactly fading away.

DPris
January 23, 2011, 09:58 PM
Far from it. :)
The thing most people don't realize is that when Colt dropped DA revolvers, they simply could no longer afford to make them.
Even the newer designs were not selling well enough. Colt was not the huge company many thought (and still think) it was.
Resources were allocated elsewhere.
Denis

Guillermo
January 23, 2011, 10:00 PM
Sounds like they aren't exactly fading away

they faded away.

the question is can they, or do they want to, come back

If you enjoyed reading about "Does Colt still make DA revolvers?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!