[SkaerE]

45/70 guide gun:


Win 94 30/30:

i need some good starting loads, both for hunting whitetail, and for practice for hunting whitetail :D (ie, targets)

i have a book on the 45/70 but am wondering which specific loads work well in a guide gun. anyone have that specific info handy?

thanks

Oh, and IDEALLY i would like loads that can share powders etc to minimize the amount of stuff i need to buy/store.

[Johnny Guest]

I recently was birthday gifted a Marlin 1895 GS by Elder Son. A friend loaned me his copy of Ken Waters' Pet Loads, along with his .45-70 dies.

Imagine my delight to discover that one of the all-around BEST powders for 400 to 405 gr. .45-70 bullets is my old standard for .30-30: IMR 3031.

Waters considerately classifies his loads as light (Trapdoor Springfields, both original and replicas,) medium (1886 Winchesters, Remington Rolling Blocks and that sort,) and heavy (Siamese Mauser conversions, Ruger Single Shots, and the Marlin 1895.)

I've been working up from 50 gr. 3031 with the Speer 400 JSP and results thus far are quite promising.

My standard .30 WCF load has long been 32 gr. of 3031 with a 150 RNSP Remington CoreLokt bullet.

The 3031 is not necessarily the best powder for lighter or heavier .30 bullets, nor for cast lead .45 bullets (though I'm seeing some good results there, as well,) but it sure is working well within my current parameters.

Please let us know of your experiments and results.

Best,
Johnny

[SkaerE]

Waters considerately classifies his loads as light (Trapdoor Springfields, both original and replicas,) medium (1886 Winchesters, Remington Rolling Blocks and that sort,) and heavy (Siamese Mauser conversions, Ruger Single Shots, and the Marlin 1895.)

strange, i have always read that the Ruger #1 and Mauser conversions were classified one level higher than the 1895's. The 1895's seem to generally be in the middle level.

hmmm. im glad about that IMR 3031 though. thats good stuff.

[Johnny Guest]

But I carefully gave my cite by author and name of book, and that's the way Waters wrote 'em up.

In fairness, this excellent book is a compendium of magazine articles written over the past thirty years or so. For the old ones, he's usually written an update or afterword. As to the .45-70, he does show a brief section for "Superheavy" loads, which secifically cautions against use in the Marlin. Otherwise, he considers the Marlin right on up there in strength. I s'pose this might be considered Waters using FOUR levels of loads. BTW - - the load I gave is at starting level for type 3 rifles - - - It goes on up a few grains in the Waters book.

This is probably a good time to insert a customized, standard, disclaimer about - - - -
CAUTION: Certain loads discussed in this thread are or may be well above published loads for the .45-70 Government cartridge. It has become popular in recent years to list multiple loading levels for this fine old cartridge. If loads intended for modern, strong rifles are used in Trapdoor Springfields, or possibly any antique rifle, the rifle will almost certainly be damaged or destroyed, with possible serious injury or worse to the shooter. Those contemplating use of ANY load discussed in this forum are strongly encouraged to check second and third sources for verification. Loading data posted here are used AT YOUR OWN RISK, and neither ownership, administration, or staff of The High Road assume any responsibility for damage or injuries to any person or equipment.

Best,
Johnny

[popbang]

The load I like the best with the 400 grain Speer bullets is 53 grains of IMR3031. This is from the Speer #13 Manual. It gives very close to 100% load density, which seems to work very well otu of my Marlin.

[Johnny Guest]

That's my intended goal. 53 gr. is one of the loads that Waters touts and it looks like a good balance of decent trajectory and controlability. I'm just now up to 52 gr. and this shows the best groups yet in my Guide Gun. I started at 50 gr and was working up.

Have you worked with any cast bullets? I am encouraged with preliminary results with a 400 gr bullet produced locally, but they are a little scarce. I have some more, about 340 gr., which I've loaded with 3031 but haven't yet tried.

Best,
Johnny

[popbang]

It has been years since I messed with cast bullets, but I had good luck with anything over 350 grains. I was using a 429 grain nose pour bullet that my Uncle made up. It was very accurate even through micro-grooving. For that bullet i was using 46.5 grains of 3031. For the 350ish grain cast bullets I used 49 grains of 3031. I have tried all kinds of powder through my 45-70 most produced good groups, but I just keep coming back to 3031. Another thing I might add is I only use Magnum primers, here again this is a peersonal choice but they produce better velocities in cold weather.

One thought about over pressure with these lever actions. If you are working up loads slowly your action will lock before you reach a destructive level. Now, I am not saying it is good to lock it up, just that it will lock before destroying the gun, at least in my experience.

If you are really into cast bullets you ought to look into trying some paper patched bullets. You can push a pure lead bullet to some stout velocities.