[telecaster1981]

WARNING: BEWARE OF EXAGGERATION!


So,

I just got done reading Lee Lapin's thread about his "ultimate" 870 project, and now I'm second guessing decisions I've made! About a month ago, I purchased a new Remington 870 Express HD...you all know what I'm talking about...18 inch, 7 shot, CYL bore, yada, yada. Well, I LOVE it! I take it just about everywhere I go (I live on a ranch, and rarely leave...it's OK!) and I feel VERY well armed. My prior experiences with shotguns has been nothing like this 870. As a trap shooter, I've come to expect a shotgun to throw relatively itty-bitty paterns at extended distances, which is totally the opposite of my 870...it throws huge patterns at short distances and I LIKE that! I think.......

I know my range is limited, but I've never considered a shotgun a tool for anything over 25yds anyway. Like I said, I live on a ranch so overpenetration and off-torso pellets aren't a concern to me...the only 'friendly' in the house sleeps next to me. At first, the large spread messed with my mind. It bugged me that my shotgun isn't very good at shooting birds, afterall, that's what shotguns do, right? But it became more appealing to me when I discovered I could destroy the vital areas of not one, but TWO bad guys (OK, paper torso targets) standing shoulder to shoulder at 25 yards with #4 Buckshot. I've shot a few slugs out of my 870 with much more success than I would have anticipated just using the bead front sight. A 10x10" plate isn't safe at 65 yards...so that kind of soothes my worries about range, or lacktherof.

Now I read about Lee Lapin's most excellent 870 and how it throws tiny little patterns at Carlos Hathcock distances, and I think 'yeah man...COOL.' That bugger must be devastating...to have ALL the pellets on target in the main vital area. Probably more versatile too? The attributes Mr. Lapin values in his shotgun are indeed appealing to me...but I really like everything about mine too! In essence, we've both chosen the 870 for similar tasks, yet we have very different weapons.

So, do I have the wrong idea about what a shotgun should do? Right now, I have Hollywood's shotgun...point it in the general direction of the Bad Guy or Bad Guys and they all go down, or at least get hit. I CAN'T MISS (at least not on man-sized targets)...trust me, I've tried and failed many times...it's basically a directional grenade...a blunderbuss! Do I need to change my 870 and find a happy medium or will my stock-as-a-rock WMD do just fine for most practical applications?

Ben

[telecaster1981]

Sorry about the double post! I hit the 'submit thread' button and waited a few minutes and nothing came up...so I hit it again...:uhoh: Sorry guys!

[Dave McCracken]

Assuming expertise and proper placement on your part, your 870 should do the job.

My HD 870 is chokeless, though the long cone simulates a little choke. Ranges at Casa McC will be close, the longest shot is about 25 feet, if memory serves.

I'm not fond of the Wall Of Leaden Death mindset. Shotguns used for defense are aimed for best work, and those who know more about such things than I say shotguns are most effective when all the pellets pattern into 5 inches or so.

DO try some 00 and see how it compares, Chances are it'll be tighter shooting than 4 buck in your shotgun, though only testing will tell by how much and what brand will do best.

HTH...

[JNewell]

There is no substitute for actually patterning a particular load in a specific gun, but having said that...IIRC, the tightest grouping load when tested by The American Rifleman several years ago was the Federal "Tactical" (reduced recoil) 9-pellet 00 load.

[Fred Fuller]

*************************************

THIS THREAD IS A DUPLICATE OF

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=261923

*************************************

[Robert Hairless]

Yes, Lee, but he said that he liked broad patterning. :)

[telecaster1981]

...it throws huge patterns at short distances and I LIKE that! I think.......


I do like that...I think...

See, I'm still conflicted! Luckily, I don't have to be because several very helpful fellows, Lee included, introduced me to the world of Federal 00 buck and Hornady TAP, both of which will apparently shrink my shotgun pattern to roughly the size of Diane Feinstein's brain...well, maybe not quite that small...but I still like the 'Wall of Leaden Death' too!

[45/70]

Mine's a Rem. 870 Wingmaster, 20" bbl. Imp. Cyl. 2 3/4" chamber, retired from Denver PD.

I confess to actually "missing" a soda can at 15 feet, shooting from the hip, #6 shot, cheapo "upland game" loads. I have a pistol grip for this gun, but I like the shoulder stock. I've also learned that it pays to point the gun. It will hit what it is pointed at, but it will not automatically nail stuff in front of you if you're just blasting from the hip.

I've opted for 2 3/4" high base magnum loads, #1 Buck shot because it provides nearly twice the pellets as 00 Buck. At defensive distances, I think probably #1 Buck will be fine . . .

I have a side/side Stevens . . . choke tubes. Full length barrel. I just like a double bbl. probably because there's a mythology I grew up with about the double as the "bad nasty" for defense.

That said, I'm looking at a "coach gun" -- which is side/side 12 gauge, open choke, short bbl. double trigger. I just like the look, the feel, the way they point. Fast to load, fast to get off two blasts.

And open choke guns are great with slugs. Slugs are totally nasty.

[blitzen]

Telecaster1981,
What you have will probablly serve you well just the way it is. If on the other hand you want tighter patterns at extended ranges have the forcing cones lenghthend and have Briley choke tubes installed. Some choke will help, mod. works great for me. Once that is done shoot only copper plated shot with a velocity of about 1145 fps. (Fed. Premium law enforcement) and the like. High velocity rounds ( and sharp forcing cones) tend to deform the pellets and cause flyers. A shotgun relies on multiple hits on target to do it's job.
I think a shotgun should be considered a precision instrument no different than a rifle except that it is pointed instead of aimed. Flock shooting at bad guys will work no better on them than it does on ducks.
Also, just an idea, pick up the book, "Shotgunning the Art and the Science" by Bob Brister. It's an old book but it will take all the mystery out of your shotgun questions. Good Luck!!

[sm]

Lee Lapin and I are friends;also what I am about to type, Lee himself has posted here on THR.

Lee Lapin keeps a Single Shot 20 gauge shotgun, handy, and has used it to take care of tasks. In fact as recent as within the last 60 days.

Bone stock, except there is a butt cuff with 5 extra shells.

This single shot shotgun has met, and continues to meet the expectations Lee has for it.

The key is, Lee has training, experiences and lots of Software - the Hardware (the shotgun, any accessories, loadings , etc) are just tools to allow him to use Software to meet expectations.

:)