[Jkwas]

I heard yesterday on NPR(I know) that stated Mexican trucking companies were to be allowed to transport their goods to points of destination in the US. DOT said they would inspect all the trucks and check the documentation and licenses of all the drivers that would be partcipating. This was on a trial basis under the NAFTA free trade agreement. The Teamsters think this is a bad idea, and quite frankly, so do I.
What do you folks think? :confused:

[ball3006]

the illegals drive around here, and seeing what the trucks look like during trips to mexico, I am against it. chris3

[NailGun]

....gun forum.....
general guns
auto loaders
revolvers
shotguns
L&P (guns)

.....trucks......
trucks hauling guns, perhaps?

[Jkwas]

....gun forum.....
general guns
auto loaders
revolvers
shotguns
L&P (guns)

.....trucks......
trucks hauling guns, perhaps?
"Legal and Political" ;)

[Biker]

1000 trucks from Mexico hauling illegals, maybe guns and WMD, maybe taking us another step closer to civil unrest and a possible war and certainly exposing the treason that goes clear to the top of this administration.
Good enough?

Biker;)

[TexasRifleman]

Good enough?

Yeah, that's probably what it will take before something is done.

I'm OK with that I guess.

[ceetee]

1000 trucks from Mexico hauling illegals, maybe guns and WMD, maybe taking us another step closer to civil unrest and a possible war and certainly exposing the treason that goes clear to the top of this administration.

Just good, honest people, doing the jobs that Americans don't want to do...

[xd9fan]

well because the two parties are not taking national sovereignty seriously.
The this war on terror talk......what a massive disconnect

[Biker]

Explain?

Biker:)

[Henry Bowman]

OT, but frankly I don't see a problem with it. I see Canadian trucks on the US highways all the time. Big deal. They go through ICE at the border and abide by our transpotation regulations. If there is a problem with Mexican trucks and truckers bringing in illegal people or stuff, deal with that. I think it's just unions fearmongering to protect their dues income, not our safety, security, or welfare of their members (other than as it relates to their ability to pay dues).

[Master Blaster]

Maybe they are carrying some American cars like all of those american Fords that are made in Juarez by $2.50 an hour auto workers. Maybe they are carrying toasters, shoes, clothing or Meican Lettuce, or onions???

Look at the label on that American car you are buying, the one inside the door and on the engine, Lots of American cars and trucks made by Ford, and GM say Hecho In Mexico....

Maybe they are full of Aguilla .22lr ammo.

[Jkwas]

I don't see where Mexican truckers making 1/4 the pay of US truckers and adhering to slacker standards and not keeping log books in their home country having no problem upgrading their practices and standards to ours. ;)

[hankdatank1362]

Will the trucks have "flame" stickers behind the wheelwells, fuzzy dice, resonator exhaust tips, and spinning hubcaps? :evil:

[NailGun]

Good enough?

Yup. I just needed a little more meat on those bones to be able to identify the critter in question. :)

NailGun.

[longeyes]

Let's call this "test program" The Brain That Launched A Thousand Trucks. And we can call the invasion of illegals a contemporary version of the Trojan Horse.

Yesterday I had to listen to the President of this country making promises to the Mexican people (his real constituency). He wants to help them with "migration." The Law is a fine and good thing, he notes, BUT "family values don't stop at the Rio Grande River."

I, frankly, was unaware that the Bill of Rights enshrined "family values," aka tribalism. I thought it was about ensuring individual political rights. WILL NO ONE STEP FORWARD TO CALL THIS MAN OUT ON HIS ACTIONS IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS?

It is appalling that we have come to this kind of shameless spectacle in a foreign land. Bush, of course, is the creation of "family values," is he not? But most of us don't have a powerful dynasty to lift us to the heights. Family values, indeed. I couldn't be more disgusted by this arrant betrayal.

[LAR-15]

More union BS.

They don't want Mexican competition.

NAFTA mandates Mexican trucks in the US.

Heh and a Democrat president pushed NAFTA hard.

And unions still support Clinton.

[Waitone]

Mexican trucks roaming freely in the US is part of NAFTA. Teamsters et al put up a furious court fight and lost. So now the US agreed to a trial of 100 Mexican truck companies free to enter the US. No word on piddling issues like safety inspections, operational hours limitations, liability insurance, customs inspections, etc.

One other point. Seems the US has chosen NOT to exercise its right to reciprocity as this time. Once again we seem to be entering into lopsided agreements for whatever reason.

[longeyes]

I think we need a detailed "map" of who exactly benefits commercially and financially from NAFTA. On both sides.

I don't see much parity here. What exactly is Mexico giving up? Permitting?

The idea that in a time of serious national peril we would entertain the idea of Mexican trucks, largely uninspected, roaming freely throughout our nation can only be described as either insanity or treason.

Is it going to take America's truck drivers and longshoremen to show American what needs to be done? (This is assuming they won't be bought off.)

[Geegolly]

Think about how much cheaper this freight will be...The cheaper the transportation is, the cheaper it is in the long run for the consumer. The more money the consumer spends, the more money is put into the economy!!!

Think about how much money it costs to ship a large sea vessel carrying cars from South America. I would hate to think how much air freight would cost to transport, thinking about it gives me the willies.

[spartan20]

Think about how much cheaper this freight will be...The cheaper the transportation is, the cheaper it is in the long run for the consumer. The more money the consumer spends, the more money is put into the economy!!!

Think about how much money it costs to ship a large sea vessel carrying cars from South America. I would hate to think how much air freight would cost to transport, thinking about it gives me the willies.


Are you being sarcastic, or are you really willing to help sell out your country for a few dollars?

[longeyes]

American consumerism, as practiced with the enthusiastic help of the credit mafia, is a form of addiction more insidious than crack.

Americans need to produce more, consume less, and try living within their means. While they're at it they can insisting that the Government do the same.

[Geno]

To me, there seems to be a process at work, and process has sequence. I see this:

Phase 1: Lie to the American people about NAFTA, and implement it.

Phase 2: Pink-slip American workers.

Phase 3: Ship the American companies south-of-the-border

Phase 4: Hire the qualified Mexican workers, and permit the unqualified Mexican workers to illegally enter the US, in order to supplant American, pro-union workers.

Phase 5: Build products for the American market outside-of-America, paying no American taxes.

Phase 6: Hire Mexican, non-union workers, and keep them in near-slave labor conditions as drivers to bring the products back to the American market.

Phase 7: Sign-up another American for unemployment. Line the pockets of the politicians and big-business with the money that should legitimately have been expended in American employees' wages.

Answer this for me:

If America every again faces a major war, the likes of WWII, and therefore requiring our industrial might to produce the needed armaments, how in the hell shall we every prevail? Was it not that very industrial ability that carried America through WWII? We out-produced them? All that the world has to do to defeat America and force it to its knees, is to stop all shipments back into the country. We even get part of our military uniforms from China?! Our pistols backed by Italy?! The coffee isn't burning folks...it has evaporated, and we are near the ashen remains of what used to be our coffee!

Please do not accuse me of ranting. This is not a rant. It is a reality. Our country is being given to the enemies.

[wingman]

It is appalling that we have come to this kind of shameless spectacle in a foreign land. Bush, of course, is the creation of "family values," is he not? But most of us don't have a powerful dynasty to lift us to the heights. Family values, indeed. I couldn't be more disgusted by this arrant betrayal.

+1, the degrading of America continues, may the wealthy gain more and the working class less.:rolleyes:

[longeyes]

If we need a litmus test for a Presidential candidate, in addition to RKBA and the principles of individual liberties enshined in the Bill of Rights, let it be the preservation of the American middle-class. Any candidate who can't propose sound programs for maintaining the strength of this nation's middle-class is taking us in the wrong direction.

Meanwhile Bush fiddles in Mexico:

By DEB RIECHMANN

MERIDA, Mexico (AP) - President Bush, ending his five-nation trip to Latin America, sought to overcome rising anti-American sentiment by pledging goodwill and a fairer immigration policy.

"One of the best things America can do is help people realize their dreams," Bush said Wednesday morning as he met with participants in a U.S.-Mexico educational exchange program.

Bush is directing his messages to the Mexican people and their newly elected president, Felipe Calderon. But he's hoping his words also would be heard 1,400 miles away on Capitol Hill, where his immigration proposal has been blocked.

Bush returns to Washington on Wednesday after his second day of meetings in Mexico, where tension has been high.

Hundreds of demonstrators marched to the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City on Tuesday, attacking riot police with concrete blocks, metal bars and firecrackers and tearing down barricades to protest Bush's visit. In Merida, about 100 protesters marched to Bush's hotel for the second night in a row carrying Mexican flags and calling Bush a "murderer."

The president also had other problems back in Washington, where Attorney General Alberto Gonzales bore the brunt of Democratic criticism over how the Justice Department and White House handled the firing of eight federal prosecutors. Gonzales acknowledged that mistakes had been made but stood by the firings and rejected calls for his own resignation.

The president could not promise Mexico that Congress will pass his guest worker program. He could only promise to work hard to make it law.

"President Calderon holds deep convictions on the matter of migration, and so do I," Bush said Tuesday night in a toast to Calderon on the breezy verandah of a manicured hacienda where the two dined on fresh shrimp ceviche and duck.

"Our nations share a 2,000-mile border, and that should be a source of unity, not division," Bush said. "So we're working together to keep both sides of the border open to tourism and trade, and closed to criminals and drug dealers and smugglers and terrorists and gun runners."

With those words, Bush closed a warm, sunny day of meetings, hacienda hopping and sightseeing at Mayan ruins with Calderon, who heralded the meeting as a "new stage in bilateral relations."

Just before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Bush stressed the importance of the U.S. relationship with Mexico. The war in Iraq, which Mexico did not support, and in Afghanistan shifted Bush's focus to the Middle East and Mexicans felt neglected.

The anti-American sentiment rose when Bush signed a bill to install hundreds of miles of new fencing, vehicle barriers and infrared cameras along the border. A critic of U.S. immigration policy, Calderon denounced the fence with gentle but firm rhetoric.

"We do consider, in a respectful way, that we may truly stop the migration by building a kilometer of highway in Michoacan or Zacatecas than 10 kilometers of walls in the border," said Calderon, who believes that jobs in Mexico, not barriers on the border, will stem migration.

Mexicans view the fence as an insult that has aggravated already strained relations with their powerful northern neighbor. Bush worked to allay their concerns, saying the barrier and stepped up enforcement along the border were only the first steps in a comprehensive immigration law overhaul that he hoped would include a guest worker program.

Bush's trip to Brazil, Uruguay, Colombia, Guatemala and Mexico served as a counterweight to Venezuela's Hugo Chavez, who is leading the leftward political shift in Latin America.

Besides shoring up relations in Latin America, Bush's trip could help reach Hispanics, who make up the fastest-growing minority group in the United States. And it helps Bush, who has waning political clout, push his immigration agenda through Congress.

Mexico, which for years has been urging changes in U.S. immigration policy, plans to begin an aggressive lobbying effort to get a deal. With the clock ticking on his presidency, Bush said he hoped legislation would be completed by August.

Bush's proposed guest worker program, which Congress has not embraced, would allow Mexicans to seek temporary work visas to work in the United States.

He says his proposal would not grant automatic citizenship, but would provide a path toward that end. Some members of Bush's own party say providing a path to citizenship amounts to giving amnesty to those who have immigrated illegally.

The president says his administration is spending a lot of time trying to forge a cohesive Republican block of support on the issue in the Senate.

"If we don't have enough consensus, nothing is going to move out of the Senate," Bush said Monday in Guatemala. "And if nothing moves out of the Senate, nothing is going to happen in the House."

>
>

[Waitone]

Doc, you need to add a few other points to your astute list.

Why has our Betters taken steps to reduce the cost of production in the US either by lowering the barriers to exit, lowering barriers to entry, or encouraging illegal immigration for the purpose of lowering the cost of labor,
------------------Combined with--------------------------------------
refusal to reduce the indirect cost of doing business in the US. We have the same tax structure, same congressional mandates, same predatory legal liability structure, same healthcare burden, same slavish allegiance to unions, same preferrential treatment to certain corporation, same bias toward big business instead of the little startup, same regulatory burden, ad nauseum.

I'll not get into a discussion about cooked economic and financial measures served up and swallowed whole by a profoundly ignorant media (and I refer to all levels include, print, electronic, main stream, and alternative).

[JCF]

Just good, honest people, doing the jobs that Americans don't want to do...

Currents estimates suggest that the OTR transport driver shortage in this country is presently somewhere between 50 and 80 thousand.

[Autolycus]

Why are some of you so against capitalism?

[Sergeant Bob]

Currents estimates suggest that the OTR transport driver shortage in this country is presently somewhere between 50 and 80 thousand.
Those estimates may be a bit skewed. In a lot OTR comanies, the turnover rate is very high. A lot of the figures are a result of, at any one time, there are many thousands of drivers in transition between jobs.

If you use those figures, how many of those job openings are the result of a driver leaving one job (resulting in a shortage there) and not yet hiring into his next job resulting in a shortage (on paper) at the next company?

One company I worked for, with about 250 trucks at the time, hired at least (and often more) 10 new drivers each week. At that rate they would replace the entire fleet in 25 weeks, resulting (on paper) in a driver shortage, when in reality, there were seldom over 10 trucks idle.

This was at one of the best paying companies with some of the best equipment in the industry.

Just some food for thought.

[Waitone]

Why are some of you so against capitalism? Just point me to it and I'll support it. Managed trade agreements (such as NAFTA) are not capitalism; they are programs of foreign policy. If capitalism were at work, US truckers would be able negotiate the price of their services. Can't happen because government lards to many requirements on to US based trucking organizations WHILE simultaneously not holding Mexican trucking organizations to US regulations. The same government will not allow US truckers into Mexico as a favor to the Mexican government. So we have a situation where a third party with a gun favors one competitor over another, prohibits another organization from procuring business in the very same country that it favors over its own organizations. US organizations are not free to control their fixed or mandated costs in order to effectively compete with Mexican organizations which have a grandly reduced fixed cost structure.

I will refrain from commenting on the security issues except to say drugs, WMD, human smuggling, and armed combat teams are all now easier to insert into the US thanks to a governmental policy.

Capitalism has nothing to do with it. We are looking at good ol' fashioned Italian-style Fascism here in the USofA.

[Sergeant Bob]

Why are some of you so against capitalism?
Isn't that sort of like asking, when someone is against mandatory trigger locks and storage laws "Why are you against child safety"?

Having a bunch of Mexican drivers transporting freight for pennies on the dollar of what American drivers are paid (and no, American truck drivers are not paid as much as most people think) is likely to drive the wages of the American driver so low, they will not be able to afford to drive a truck. Make no mistake, those cheap Mexican drivers will be displacing American drivers.

Using Canadian drivers is not a good comparison, as their pay is pretty close to what American drivers are paid, as so pose not much threat to American driver wages.

[longeyes]

Why are some of you so against capitalism?

Maybe we love our country and political liberty more than money?

There are many fascist states that purport to practice capitalism. Capitalism without a human face, without morality, is no panacea.

[longeyes]

Maybe because capitalism's most ardent and visible champion, George W. Bush, has profaned the meaning of the term as he has profaned so much else in his nasty, brutish, and short political career. Of course W. himself is no capitalist, just a globalist errand boy with fatcat friends.

Just today he was heaping praise on Ted Kennedy as an ally in the amnesty crusade. This is the same Kennedy who has repeatedly called W. every name under the sun and desires his impeachment. Apparently the Rise of Mexico is a cause W. considers worth political crucifixion; it's without doubt his deepest passion.

[JCF]

Those estimates may be a bit skewed.

Having a bunch of Mexican drivers transporting freight for pennies on the dollar of what American drivers are paid (and no, American truck drivers are not paid as much as most people think) is likely to drive the wages of the American driver so low, they will not be able to afford to drive a truck. Make no mistake, those cheap Mexican drivers will be displacing American drivers.

Come on now..

Even if the real numbers are a fraction of what is estimated due to factors such revolving employees, the numbers are enormous Sgt Bob.

Of course OTR trucks rarely sit idle... companies run minimum equipment. They do not purchase trucks that they cannot man.

If you've driven OTR then you know as well as I do that there are contigious state (as well as cross-border) loads up the wazoo that are not moved on time because there is no one to move them. Virtually every carrier in this country is engaged in a recruiting campaign. Even Haz-Mat carriers are hiring unlicensed drivers and putting them through basic driver training now. Any owner or recruiter will tell you exactly the same thing; they are willing to buy as many trucks as they have drivers to fill.

And, if you drive OTR you also know full well that Canadian and Mexican drivers cannot Interstate, viz., their loads are limited to freight travelling directly in and out of the USA. They cannot pick-up and deliver within the country. No one is taking anyone's job.

[longeyes]

No one is taking anyone's job. Right.

Now how many American truck drivers are delivering stuff in Mexico? I didn't catch that number...

Seems to me it's about time to replace Federal Express drivers with Federales Express drivers. Save about $15 an hour, real easy-like.

[Biker]

Really?
Prior to this new Bushism, Mexican truckers weren't allowed to operate more than 20 miles past our border before we took over. Now, since that rule is no longer in effect, I'd say some American truckers are out of jobs.

Someone took someone's job. Wouldn't you say?

Biker

[JCF]

Now how many American truck drivers are delivering stuff in Mexico? I didn't catch that number...

American trucks have been entering Mexico in droves for over a decade. The USA hasn't reciprocated.

Prior to this new Bushism, Mexican truckers weren't allowed to operate more than 20 miles past our border before we took over. Now, since that rule is no longer in effect, I'd say some American truckers are out of jobs.

Someone took someone's job. Wouldn't you say?

No... I would not.

Freight is presently dropped at border terminals for eventual reload and redistribution (typically by sub-minimum wage border labor). A process which takes a very long time given the lack of drivers, and increases the freight, loss, and handling costs to the American business owner and, ultimately the consumer, exponentially. You tell me what is really better for the country economically?

[plexreticle]

NAFTA = economic war against the middle class. Why should big business pay Americans to do jobs Mexicans are willing to do for less?

Large companies are moving jobs overseas. GM closes plants in Texas and opens plants in China in the same year. US steel. Gone.

I live in central texas, go to Home Depot or Lowes the average age worker is over 30. When I was a kid you got a job at the lumber yard right out of high school or for the summer. It was considered an entry level type job. So was many construction jobs. The average age of the McDonalds worker has even gone up.

Lucky for us we have all this cheap stuff coming in from overseas so we can afford it with our two income family salaries.

[foob]

It's called comparative advantage. Probably the first thing they teach in economics class. Free trade hurts some, but benefits more.

[Sergeant Bob]

Even if the real numbers are a fraction of what is estimated due to factors such revolving employees, the numbers are enormous Sgt Bob.

If the numbers are enormous, as you say, then would not the impact on American jobs (and wages) be enormous too? I see this as only helping Mexico and doing nothing for us (the American drivers). The average wages for American drivers has dropped 6 or 7 percent below other competitive occupations since 2001. One of the reasons is, the large companies like J.B.Hunt, Schneider and Werner Enterprises are willing to undercut just about anyone on freight rates and paying their drivers crappy wages.
A large influx of even cheaper labor is not going to make that situation any better.

And, if you drive OTR you also know full well that Canadian and Mexican drivers cannot Interstate, viz., their loads are limited to freight travelling directly in and out of the USA. They cannot pick-up and deliver within the country. No one is taking anyone's job.
They are not required to take only freight going directly to Canada. If a Canadian driver delivers to Ca., he is not required to sit until he gets a load going directly to Canada. He is allowed to take freight which will get him somewhere else, be it, Michigan, Tennessee, or New York, to pick up something which will get him back to Canada.

[JCF]

If the numbers are enormous, as you say, then would not the impact on American jobs (and wages) be enormous too? I see this as only helping Mexico and doing nothing for us (the American drivers). The average wages for American drivers has dropped 6 or 7 percent below other competitive occupations since 2001. One of the reasons is, the large companies like J.B.Hunt, Schneider and Werner Enterprises are willing to undercut just about anyone on freight rates and paying their drivers crappy wages.
A large influx of even cheaper labor is not going to make that situation any better.

This makes no sense. There is an enormous need for drivers... there is more freight by far than drivers are currently able to move. The presence of 1000 or even 5000 Mexican trucks would mean NOTHING to the trucking industry in the USA. It is meaningless.


They are not required to take only freight going directly to Canada. If a Canadian driver delivers to Ca., he is not required to sit until he gets a load going directly to Canada. He is allowed to take freight which will get him somewhere else, be it, Michigan, Tennessee, or New York, to pick up something which will get him back to Canada.

Sorry. You need to do your homework. It is illegal to do what you are suggesting. A Canadian or Mexican driver CANNOT pick up and deliver within the USA. If necessary, he must deadhead back across the country before he can do what you have described.

[Waitone]

It's called comparative advantage. Probably the first thing they teach in economics class. Free trade hurts some, but benefits more. Actually the term is "Absolute Advantage". In comparative advantage factors of production are immobile. Can't ship Napa Valley's climate to Havana and can't ship Havana's soil to Napa Valley. Comparative Advantage lets Cuba ship cigars to Napa Valley and wine to Cuba.

When factors of production are mobile advantage falls to lowest cost of production. An electronics board stuffer can be in China or Peoria. It operates at the same rate. What becomes important is the cost and availability of capital to purchase the machine, direct operating costs, and indirect costs of doing business. Advantage falls to the location with the lowest cost of production. Eventually the advantage will fall to the location with the lowest total cost of doing business. And that kiddies is why the US has got major problems in the future. There is now no compelling reason from an economic standpoint for staying in the US if a business is in a market producing tradeable goods. It is the height of folly and arrogance to assume the US can offload "undesirable" jobs and keep only the "good" jobs. The indirect cost of doing business in the US is out of line with competing countries. We will either reset out cost structure or we will continually lose economic enterprise to countries that treat capital better.

[Sergeant Bob]

This makes no sense. There is an enormous need for drivers... there is more freight by far than drivers are currently able to move. The presence of 1000 or even 5000 Mexican trucks would mean NOTHING to the trucking industry in the USA. It is meaningless.
If there is by far more freight than we currently have drivers to move, then why is it there are no shortages of goods due to lack of transportation?

Sorry. You need to do your homework. It is illegal to do what you are suggesting. A Canadian or Mexican driver CANNOT pick up and deliver within the USA. If necessary, he must deadhead back across the country before he can do what you have described.
I did, and you are correct.

[Basura Blanca]

Heh and a Democrat president pushed NAFTA hard.

In the interest of keeping things factual, it should be noted that NAFTA didn't originate under the Clinton Administration.

This was the baby of Bush Sr. and Co. --like it or not.

[JCF]

If there is by far more freight than we currently have drivers to move, then why is it there are no shortages of goods due to lack of transportation?

You're kidding right? Tell the manufacturing industries that there is no shortage.


You do the homework and we'll grade it here.

Ok. Here you go:

What is interstating, and what happens if I get caught?

http://www.highwaystarmagazine.com/careersfeature.cfm?ID=206


Cabotage Rules for Canadian Based Drivers - by the USINS

http://www.highwaystarmagazine.com/cabotage.pdf


Definition of Cabotage as offered by Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabotage


Happy grading.

[Biker]

A point that should have been made a while back, Mr. Blanca.
Thank you.
BTW, did Mr. Pink really die, or will there be a sequel?

Biker;)

[Waitone]

Negotiated under Bush I and pushed through congress as an "agreement", not a treaty, by Clinton with the active agreement of the Republican while talk radio cheered both parties on.

Neither party has clean skirts. Both parties are responsible.

[Waitone]

Why is there a shortage of drivers in the US?

[Outlaws]

All I can say is that if their truckers are anything like their citizens around here, they won't be able to drive for crap. God help us all.

[Outlaws]

CEO of Fortune 500 company: How can we get our goods delivered for less money than $0.28 a mile?
THINK TANK: Lets get some Mexicans, they'll do it for $0.10.
CEO of Fortune 500 company: Good idea. I'll make a few phone calls to Washington.

[JCF]

Why is there a shortage of drivers in the US?

A whole host of reasons.

Partially because the demand for consumer goods has increased exponentially over the past 30 years.

Partially because manufacturing has become less localized, and long distance shipping has become possible.

Partially because of the economic advantages of purchasing goods from foreign countries which requires transportation of mass quantities of goods.

Partially because of the fact that trucking is the type of very trying profession/lifestyle that many people cannot readily endure in this day and age.

Partially because of the heavy toll that the trucking lifestyle tends to exact on families in a day and age when relational commitment is weak at best.

Partially because of the fact that many trucking jobs are relatively poorly paid and devoid of benefits.

The list goes on and on...

[pacodelahoya]

Tecumseh,

If it was a level playing field, it would be a different story. It's not.

I just got my CDL and am in training with a large company. Believe me, after all the background checks, physical, urine tests, written tests, hands on tests etc, I almost would rather have stayed a landscape foreman if it had bennies.

Are these Mexican companies doing the testing etc that I had to go through?

I don't know for sure, but I seriously doubt it. Why would they when all they have to do is buy off the local DMV guy?:banghead:

Personally, I say bring em on, then when people start getting whacked on the way to the zoo or wherever by undocumented drivers, maybe that will be another catalyst to help start the third revolution. We are past due.

[James T Thomas]

Another issue besides union security and American jobs:

My understanding of the six lane highway; "corridor," is that -there will be no customs inspection at the loading point, that is, within a foreign nation, until the truck arrives within the good old USA!

Say as far within our nation as Kansas City! Here we have tons and tons of cargo rolling along a highway, alongside many of our major cities, and there has been absolutely no inspection of it's cargo, until it reaches it's destination. Imagine.

This implies that the "random" searches at the existing US borders are hit and miss -haphazzard affairs. "They can't possibly inspect every trailer coming in." So, we are resorting to the mathematical irrefuteable abstractness of statistics again. The publicized explosive find at the Canadian border was simply that. A publicity campaign to pacify the voters; political soothing to convey the deception that government is at it's job protecting us.

Just as the President and Congress were corrected mid stream in the fiasco of granting posession of our ports to foreign businesses, so ought to they be refrained by we the people from making this disasterous mistake.

Like Pres. Ronald Reagan said "I have great confidence in the common sense of the American People." When we are "allowed" to govern ourselves.
And even make our own "mistakes" if it comes to that.

[feedthehogs]

you are a Canadian citizen with no visa or permit to work in the U.S.

Has it been determined that the mexican drivers will not be given visas or permits?

I think most americans aren't willing to do a job that they can't make a decent living at. If that includes trucking now then where does it stop as companies under cut more american jobs in the search for larger profits.

Cause after all you don't really think they'll pass on those savings to the consumer do you?

The easier we make it to import foreign labor or export american jobs won't help the economy. You wally world supporters enjoy the low prices while you still have a job and money to buy the stuff with until a lower wage earner comes along who doesn't mind living in a windowless shack or migrant camp and will do your job for less than half of your pay.

[JCF]

Are these Mexican companies doing the testing etc that I had to go through?

In order to operate in the United States, Canadian and Mexican carriers are required to conform to the same safety and compliance standards that US carriers are.

The drivers are required to have medicals performed by US DOT approved physicians at intervals equivalent to US drivers, and must undergo random and post accident drug screening. They are also required to undergo criminal histories and bonding in order to obtain US border crossing cards.

In addition, they are required to comply with US DOT hours of service standards, keep logs, comply with USDA regs, etc.

The driver, load and equipment is subject to inspection at all border crossings. The load, documents and equipment are subject to inspection and the driver subject to random testing at all state inspection stations. All trucks are required to purchase and display appropriate fuel tax stickers as requisite for each state they enter.

Trucks entering California are required to meet CA EPA emissions standards. Trucks entering NY must display a HUT sticker, etc., etc., etc....

[JCF]

Has it been determined that the mexican drivers will not be given visas or permits?

I would say that the fact that Canadian truckers have been driving in this country for 60+ years and still cannot get visas might suggest something.

My understanding of the six lane highway; "corridor," is that -there will be no customs inspection at the loading point, that is, within a foreign nation, until the truck arrives within the good old USA!

Say as far within our nation as Kansas City! Here we have tons and tons of cargo rolling along a highway, alongside many of our major cities, and there has been absolutely no inspection of it's cargo, until it reaches it's destination. Imagine.

Yeah. That would be bad. That isn't how it works though. Tens of thousands of trucks roll across both borders weekly as it is. None of them, with the exception of Customs Bonded Carriers, are permitted to enter the country in the way you are describing. Security at the borders has increased over the last ten years to the extent that there are commercial truck traffic jams. It is highly unlikely that anyone is going to be whizzing through from Mexico anytime soon.

[bcolorado]

It is 100 Mexican trucking companies getting a free pass. Guarantee they have more than 10 trucks each. It has been revealed that the drug cartels are purchasing "trucking " compaines.

The wholesale dismantling of the USA CONTINUES......

[longeyes]

Yeah. That would be bad. That isn't how it works though. Tens of thousands of trucks roll across both borders weekly as it is. None of them, with the exception of Customs Bonded Carriers, are permitted to enter the country in the way you are describing. Security at the borders has increased over the last ten years to the extent that there are commercial truck traffic jams. It is highly unlikely that anyone is going to be whizzing through from Mexico anytime soon.

Not to worry. Random acts of terrorism--the sporadic truck bomb and the nuclear dust-up that costs a city or two--have already, I assure you, been laid out in gruesome detail on the spreadsheets as part of the cost of doing business in the emerging new market called North America. Productivity may drop, temporarily, a point or two, but that shouldn't worry us any more than the grind-down of 750 million peasants in China or the factory workers who cheerfully work 70 hours a week for peanuts and no benefits just to survive for the glory of the New World Order state.

[pacodelahoya]

Cfriesen,

Yea, cus we all know how legit the police and government is in Mexico. I'm certain that their DOT is completely above board and wouldn't dream of taking a bribe.:rolleyes:

Yea, getting popped on a piss test is really gonna put a damper on the guy that just has to step over the border, get another name and he is golden. Don't say it doesn't happen, how many murderers are known to be in mexico that they won't extradite?

[longeyes]

Folks, there's an estate sale going on. And the deceased is America. Snap up the goodies, while you can.

This will go on until, in a marvelous and ironic reversal of mythic history, WE become the angry, armed zombies seeking our pound of flesh.

The plantation owners really believe they can get away with anything. Of course there is so much they haven't thought of, haven't anticipated.

The next few decades will be major fun.

[JCF]

Not to worry. Random acts of terrorism--the sporadic truck bomb and the nuclear dust-up that costs a city or two--have already, I assure you, been laid out in gruesome detail on the spreadsheets as part of the cost of doing business in the emerging new market called North America. Productivity may drop, temporarily, a point or two, but that shouldn't worry us any more than the grind-down of 750 million peasants in China or the factory workers who cheerfully work 70 hours a week for peanuts and no benefits just to survive for the glory of the New World Order state.

Again... a moving oration, and doubtless relating to something. Thank you for your thoughts on the matter.

[wingman]

Capitalism without a human face, without morality, is no panacea.



longeye's nails it again with the above quote. it all comes to not a question
of money but what type of America you want, if corporate powers have their
way we will be like Mexico, India, or perhaps China, but then again China
will soon own the USA.:(

[wingman]

Again... a moving oration, and doubtless relating to something. Thank you for your thoughts on the matter.

Perhaps you don't wish to understand.

[JCF]

Yea, cus we all know how legit the police and government is in Mexico. I'm certain that their DOT is completely above board and wouldn't dream of taking a bribe.

"OUR" Department of Transportation does it paco.


Yea, getting popped on a piss test is really gonna put a damper on the guy that just has to step over the border, get another name and he is golden. Don't say it doesn't happen, how many murderers are known to be in mexico that they won't extradite?

Oh yeah, of course. Because you know how many Mexicans can afford to purchase new identities like new socks right? And you know how difficult it is for Mexican carriers to find truckers willing to cross into the USA? Please.

[JCF]

Perhaps you don't wish to understand.

I've read enough of his work that I would be frankly concerned if I did. I'm afraid I don't have the "Right Stuff" for the kind of mission longeyes is on. Sorry.

[pacodelahoya]

OK, how hard is it to buy an identity in mexico?

[JCF]

OK, how hard is it to buy an identity in mexico?

Simple. It just takes a couple of years worth of salary.

[Sindawe]

"OUR" Department of Transportation does it paco.Yeppers, so all is well. "OUR" officials would never consider selling false papers to Mexican truckers like the $&#^@ who could not understand English and who's actions lead to the fiery death of six kids in 1994.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002936731_ryan18.html

Google: Rev. Scott Willis for additional sad details.

[JCF]

Yeppers, so all is well. "OUR" officials would never consider selling false papers to Mexican truckers like the $&#^@ who could not understand English and who's actions lead to the fiery death of six kids in 1994.

Hey, did you hear that Paco? Now your CDL isn't worth anymore than some Mexican's is. What a disaster. We may as well just shut the highways down.

[garyk/nm]

Yeah, we all know how law-abiding most Mexican Nationals are (to put it bluntly, not at all. It's a cultural thing; you wouldn't understand).
Since the vast majority of Mexican trucks will be here sans safety inspections and without insurance( do you really believe they will be any different than the millions of illegals already here?)it will only take one or two violent encounters with SUVs/ minivans full of soccermoms/ fledglings before the good people of this country say ENOUGH! and take to the streets to protect what the government won't.
Make no mistake; these trucks WILL be here without insurance, and they WILL be involved in fatal accidents. It's the nature of the law-flaunting beast. The question is, will the American people put up with it, or will they put a stop to it?

[pacodelahoya]

Nice try cfriesen,
Requirements in the good ole USA are now federal and a lot more stringent than in 1994. However, look to this happening a lot more often.



On a side note, it always seems that the people that don't care about illegal immigration are the ones whose livley hoods are the least likely to be affected by lowered wages. Maybe the white collar and government type employees are ok with it, but us working stiffs are getting fed up. Color me stupid for not being ok with working for 10 bucks an hour and living 15 to an apartment for 9 months then going to live in mexico for three months a year like a king and being able to save enough money to retire young. Now if I could go to work in Canada for 9 months a year and make 30 buck an hour cash and then come home and take three months off? Now your talking.

[JCF]

Yeah, we all know how law-abiding most Mexican Nationals are (to put it bluntly, not at all. It's a cultural thing; you wouldn't understand).
Mexicans are a criminalistic people? Interesting.

Since the vast majority of Mexican trucks will be here sans safety inspections and without insurance( do you really believe they will be any different than the millions of illegals already here?)

Commercial vehicles are checked for safety/insurance docs each time they cross the border. It is a sticker issued by US Customs and strategically placed on the driver-side window.

it will only take one or two violent encounters with SUVs/ minivans full of soccermoms/ fledglings before the good people of this country say ENOUGH! and take to the streets to protect what the government won't.
Make no mistake; these trucks WILL be here without insurance, and they WILL be involved in fatal accidents. It's the nature of the law-flaunting beast.

Which beast? The criminalistic group you were referring to earlier? :barf:

[garyk/nm]

Criminalistic? Most definitely. Law-flaunting, you bet. What universe are you living in?

[JCF]

Nice try cfriesen,
Requirements in the good ole USA are now federal and a lot more stringent than in 1994. However, look to this happening a lot more often.

Your preaching to the choir Paco... I have no issue with the regs. You need to speak to Sindawe :)


On a side note, it always seems that the people that don't care about illegal immigration are the ones whose livley hoods are the least likely to be affected by lowered wages. Maybe the white collar and government type employees are ok with it, but us working stiffs are getting fed up. Color me stupid for not being ok with working for 10 bucks an hour and living 15 to an apartment for 9 months then going to live in mexico for three months a year like a king and being able to save enough money to retire young. Now if I could go to work in Canada for 9 months a year and make 30 buck an hour cash and then come home and take three months off? Now your talking.

I came from Canada Paco, and I never knew anyone other than my dentist who made 30 dollars an hour ;) Good luck with that.

I don't like illegal immigration either. But what you are talking about is not illegal immigration. This is people following the rules and trying to make it above board... just like you and me.

[garyk/nm]

Wrong! This is people taking advantage of a legal loophole created by a corrupt government. And as such, deserve no quarter.

[JCF]

Criminalistic? Most definitely. Law-flaunting, you bet. What universe are you living in?

Have you ever given consideration to the idea that referring to an entire nationality of people as criminalistic and law-flaunting is probably not the most intelligent thing you've ever done?

[pacodelahoya]

I was speaking of Canada hypothetically Cfriesen. I have no idea what wages are there, I was saying that IF I could make 30 bucks an hour there, it would be worth the hardship. That's why the illegals come here to work, not because they like the USA, but because they make a killer wage (compared to what they would make in mexico) and don't have to pay taxes(for the most part).

But hey, it keeps labor prices down for the big buisnesses and therefore prices down for the consumers, so everyone wins right?;)

[JCF]

I was speaking of Canada hypothetically Cfriesen. I have no idea what wages are there, I was saying that IF I could make 30 bucks an hour there, it would be worth the hardship. That's why the illegals come here to work, not because they like the USA, but because they make a killer wage (compared to what they would make in mexico) and don't have to pay taxes(for the most part).

But hey, it keeps labor prices down for the big buisnesses and therefore prices down for the consumers, so everyone wins right?

I know what you were saying Paco... I was just playing with you.

I still don't like ilegal immigration, but I still stand on the fact that this isn't it.

Regardless... I really hope you find what you're looking for behind the wheel Paco. I did the job, it is difficult, but it has it's rewards also.

Be safe; sleep at night, slow and steady is better than fast and furious, watch your signs, and always remember that YOU are the only one who has any idea what he is doing out there and you wll be fine.

[Biker]

Check this out...

www.rense.com/general75/amamex.htm

Disagree with the messanger if you like, but address the message.

Yes, the culture of Mexico does not dovetail with ours.

Biker

[garyk/nm]

Oh, I'm sorry, I should have stated that it is only 100% of the ones I come into contact with. New Mexico must have gotten a bad shipment. It isn't that way everywhere else, I'm sure.
Have you given consideration that defending illegals is not the most intelligent thing you've ever done? Don't try to play high-and-mighty. Been there, loaded and ready to whup azz.
I live here, with these miscreants. I see it every day. If you ask for references, be prepared to spend the next 10 years reading. And then I'll send you more.
This is not about Capitalism, it is about giving our country away.

[JCF]

Check this out...

www.rense.com/general75/amamex.htm

Disagree with the messanger if you like, but address the message.

Yes, the culture of Mexico does not dovetail with ours.

The culture of Mexico does not dovetail with that of America. So? The culture of Louisiana does not dovetail with that of Texas. Big deal.

There is no shortage of critical commentary directed at the United States Biker... what exactly does this prove? America incarcerates more people per capita than virtually any other nation in the world. Is this type of "compelling" testimony justification for the Japanese to refer to us as a nationality of criminalistic boors? I think not.

[Biker]

Illustrate, if you would, how the culture of LA differs with that of Texas anywhere near as much as the cultural void between Mex and the US.
Address the original question or label yourself as a disengenuous argument whore.
With all the respect due...

Biker

[JCF]

Oh, I'm sorry, I should have stated that it is only 100% of the ones I come into contact with. New Mexico must have gotten a bad shipment. It isn't that way everywhere else, I'm sure.
Have you given consideration that defending illegals is not the most intelligent thing you've ever done? Don't try to play high-and-mighty. Been there, loaded and ready to whup azz.
I live here, with these miscreants. I see it every day. If you ask for references, be prepared to spend the next 10 years reading. And then I'll send you more.
This is not about Capitalism, it is about giving our country away.

I see. Well, there's obviously no point in my wasting your time; what with all the racist rhetoric that requires channeling. Thanks for dropping by to chat.

[JCF]

Illustrate, if you would, how the culture of LA differs with that of Texas as much anywhere near as much as the void between Mex and the US.
Address the original question or label yourself as a disengenuous argument whore.
With all the respect..

It doesn't differ anywhere near as much. It differs however. No one ever suggested that the culture of Mexico did not differ from that of America.

I don't recall your presentation of a question Biker.

[garyk/nm]

I see. Well, there's obviously no point in my wasting your time; what with all the racist rhetoric that requires channeling. Thanks for dropping by to chat.
__________________
Well, now. There's an intelligent, well-thought reply. Addressing none of what was said, just making yourself feel better. Sleep well in your ignorance.

[pacodelahoya]

It's illegal if they don't have bonifide credentials, insurance,physicals, urine tests etc. And I'm sorry, way too much verified reports of official corruption in mexico that I am not gonna buy that the majority of these guys are legally qualified. I'll also go out on a limb and say that a lot of em aren't qualified period. IMO only.

And if having mexican truck drivers drive in the US, why are they not reciprocating at the same scale that we let them drive at???????

And don't worry Rainman, I'm an excellent driver...excellent....:D

[JCF]

It's illegal if they don't have bonifide credentials, insurance,physicals, urine tests etc.

Yep... it would be. But OUR government verifies that they do. Just like they do for you.

And I'm sorry, way too much verified reports of official corruption in mexico that I am not gonna buy that the majority of these guys are legally qualified. I'll also go out on a limb and say that a lot of em aren't qualified period. IMO only.

So be it.

And if having mexican truck drivers drive in the US, why are they not reciprocating at the same scale that we let them drive at???????

There are more AMerican trucks in Mexico than vice versa... have been for years and years.


And don't worry Rainman, I'm an excellent driver...excellent....

Let's hope...:D

[Moondoggie]

Independent trucker here. Formerly lived in Yuma, AZ for 12 yrs.

The cultures DON'T dovetail. Ever heard of "La Mordida"? The little bite. Cops and most public "servants" in Mexico are paid poverty wages. Their position of pubic "trust" is their license to extract their income a "little bite" at a time from the public. It's the culture, period. And their culture is highly oriented toward a third world mentality of getting away with whatever one can get away with.

Now onto the trucking in America issues vs. trucking in Mexico issues....

One reason that American truckers can't/won't run inside Mexico is contained in the previous paragraph. Anybody with a badge and a gun in Mexico that wants to sieze your gringo truck is going to have your truck...AND CARGO on whatever pretense they want to use. YOU WILL NEVER GET EITHER BACK. BTW, if you're the average trucker with a payment, you get to just keep on making those payments. Plus the deductable on your cargo insurance, it your insurance carrier pays. "Siezure by a governmental agency" isn't listed as one of the covered losses on MY policy.

Cabatoge laws are enforced by Customs. There are NO CUSTOMS INSPECTORS at STATE DOT FACILITIES within the US! Does anybody here think that these super scrupulous citizens of Mexico are going to abide by laws within the US that are very, very rarely enforced??? When pigs fly!

I could go on and on, but the upshot of this situation is that Americans get to once again bend over and grab their ankles while we listen to that "Giant Sucking Sound" that Ross Perot alluded to.

Oh, and the flaming school bus wrecks with body parts strewn all over the landscape...coming soon to a location near you!

[garyk/nm]

And if we let them in, what guarantee do we have that they ( along with as many familia as they can pack on board) will go back?
Another free pass, courtesy of our beloved government.

[JCF]

The cultures DON'T dovetail.

Of course the cultures don't dovetail. What of it?


One reason that American truckers can't/won't run inside Mexico is...

Nonsense. Throngs of American trucks cross into Mexico daily.

Cabatoge laws are enforced by Customs. There are NO CUSTOMS INSPECTORS at STATE DOT FACILITIES within the US!

Incorrect... again. Any state inspection facility, LEO, DOT inspector can review your Bills of Lading. Any one of them can inspect your load. Any one of them can enforce cabotage regulations. You would likely not have much experience with this being an AMERICAN trucker, but I will give you every assurance that foreign truckers understand this intimately. I don't expect that you'd have been stopped and inspected much with US tags now would you???

[Art Eatman]

Trucks, laws and such, I'll let skate. Other social-gripe stuff, forget it.

FWIW: The Mexican-owned long-haul semis pass inspections at about the same rate as US-owned trucks: 75%.

As it is, the Mexican driver can come to some transfer point that's within 20 miles of the border. A US driver then takes the trailer to its destination.

From a smuggling standpoint, it shouldn't matter if the seal is broken near the border or in Kansas City.

A benefit to all of us as buyers of the stuff that's in these trucks is a lesser cost of transportation. Less time at the border is part of it. Fewer "dead head" no-load runs south for US drivers.

I regularly see signs on semi-trailers asking for would-be drivers to contact the company, so there is at least some market for more drivers. That tells me that Mexican drivers aren't gonna "steal our jobs".

The more decent-pay jobs available in Mexico, the fewer of them to try to illegally come here. Sounds good to me.

Art

[mons meg]

I think there is no more single divisive topic for otherwise level headed gun owner types than to have a discussion about immigration/NAFTA/global economics. The battle lines seem to always fall down a couple typical avenues. Note that I will show some bias here... ;)

On the "against" side, I see anything from "They took ahr jawbs" (See South Park "Goobacks" episode) to a really frightening channeling of Noam Chomsky, and he's not dead yet as far as I know. The spirit of Milton Friedman, who *is* dead, will be by shortly to pick up their libertarian cards.

On the other side, you have 3 or 4 folks who seem to feel that freedom should apply to everything.

This isn't about Bush and how he has handled/mishandled the immigration issue. This is macroeconomics. Now, if only Art would shoot this horse...

[Art Eatman]

Bang-whop.

R.I.P.

Art