[dakotasin]

i'm tired of carrying very, very heavy shotguns into the pheasant fields.

i've decided i want a lightweight gun, and as long as i'm at it, get the perfect gauge for pheasants (i feel that would be a 20)...

i need reccomendations for shotguns that will stand up to very hard use, that are light, and come in at under $500.

really thinking 870, here, but i was hoping to find something a little lighter.

any help appreciated!

[TrapperReady]

Here's what I did.

A number of months ago, I was checking out a local store and they had a beautiful old 870 Wingmaster in 20ga. I didn't particularly NEED a new shotgun, but it sure looked good and I didn't own an 870.

The condition was very nice, with the bluing in excellent shape and the wood was almost as good except for a few small dings. Character marks if you will. It's got 2 3/4" chambers (which is all I ever shoot) and a 28" fixed full-choke barrel. Perfect (IMO) for pheasants.

I bought it for $300 out the door, and it is now the first thing I reach for when going after upland birds. It's light, reliable and fits me well. It also has the look of a well-cared for and well-used heirloom. What more could I ask for?

I'm sure Dave will jump in, but I believe that the 20ga Wingmasters came in two frame sizes and barrel profiles. Mine isn't the lightest of the bunch, but it is substantially lighter than any of my 12ga guns.

[dakotasin]

thanks for the input...that is a pet peeve of mine - 20 ga shotguns built on 12 ga frames....

i also wanted to iterate that i'm not above buying used.

any more suggestions?

[HSMITH]

I have a Browning Gold 20 that I love dearly....

[45Badger]

Love my 870 in 20 ga.
Love my BPS in 20 ga.
Really love my Superposed, 20ga:D

[TrapperReady]

Another option for used... Benelli M1 Field in 20ga.

That was the first gun my wife purchased when she started shooting. It has a 26" barrel and is quite light. The recoil is pretty heavy for a 20ga autoloader, but the thing is absolutely stone-cold reliable with several thousand shells through it over the past couple years.

If I can get out and grouse hunt some this fall, that will be the weapon of choice.

It's outside of your price range if new, but a used one might be found for around $500. The only problem is that I've never seen a used one for sale (in person).

[Kingcreek]

Lots of used 20g pumps out there. Rem 870s, Ithica model 37s, etc with 2.75" chambers.
I prefer the option of a 3" for some of those tough ringnecks. (Check out the Fiocci nickel plated lead #4,#5 shot in the fast Golden Pheasant version.) If you are shooting nice, play-by-the-rules roosters over a well mannered pointer then any load will do but when they get wild and rangey, I like a little more punch.
I've carried a Rem 11-87 upland 20 with 23" barrel and straight english style stock-light and fast- but I'm yearning for a 390/391 with a 26" tube. Browning has some nice 20g offerings also. all with 3" chambers.

[dakotasin]

lol... 'nice, play by the rules roosters over a well-mannered pointer'? nope...not me. wild birds over rowdy labs! :D well, my labs are pretty good, but the birds are still wild. :)

i appreciate all the suggestions thus far. i'm really not a fan of autos. my preference are for doubles and pumps... i'm down to only one double now (ithaca hammerless), and it just might be the heaviest shotgun i've ever handled...

keep 'em comin'!

[Dave McCracken]

Actually, the smaller framed 20 gauges do not come in all that much lighter than a properly set up 12. The difference between Frankenstein with it's 21" barrel and the 870 YE 20 gauge with its 20" barrel is about 3 oz. YMMV a little.

A 12 gauge Ithaca 37 is lighter than either.

I'd be tempted in this case to get a 12 gauge 870 WM with an old fixed choke barrel OR the newer 26" Light Contour,Remchoked one. That should come in at about 7 lbs.

If a 20 is still your choice, find one of the old WMs made after they went to a dedicated 20 gauge frame but before they heavied up the barrels. 6 1/2-3/4 lbs, I guess.

Use of a plain barrel vs one with a vent rib will save a couple oz, some judicious wood removal under the pad will save more. Grinding the dome out of the mag cap saves about an oz. It adds up.

I'd love to see Big Green come out with a 23" LC barrel with tubes, but I doubt the demand is there.

[Clemson]

I own and like Wingmasters, but for the lightest possible gun to carry afield, I would look seriously at the new 20 gauge Ithaca Model 37's. They are truly delightful to carry. With all due respect to the 12 gauge adherents, the 20 saves you significant weight in the "toting around" department. It ain't just the gun. (Although that is a pound or more of the difference.) If you tote two boxes of shells in your vest, the 20's save that much MORE weight.

If you think you want a 3" 20, you really need a 12 gauge. If the gun comes with a 2 3/4 inch chamber, you will do just fine on pheasants, not to mention doves, rabbits, and quail.

I have a 1947 vintage Ithaca 20 gauge, and it weighs a shade over 5 pounds. I have recently handled one of the new guns, and it seems to be made from the same quality, machined parts that the old ones were. That is refreshing in this day and time.

www.ithacagun.com

Good luck!

Clemson

[HSMITH]

A 20 guage Browning Gold hunter or a Beretta 391 is going to be 2 pounds + lighter than the 870 YE 20..........

My BGH 20 is just a tiny shade over 6 pounds. Go swing the BGH and the Beretta 391 in the store. They will both be in the mid $700's but worth every single red cent!!!!

[Mr. Black]

Hey! I've got a '47 Ithaca 20 ga. Ohhhh, is it SWEET! That is THE light gun to get. So fast. That is the gun I would recommend.

But, no, the new one's I've seen aren't of the same quality (bolt is cast, parts that look new on the '47 are peening over on my '98 from soft metal, the fit is sloppier, nothing was polished, ejector is stamped and more things.)

Add to that the fact that Ithaca has been a total #$%@ to me when dealing with them about my DSPS (REFUSED to make me a slug barrel; wanted me to have the mag tube cut down???), the new Ithaca's don't have a disonector OR slamfire (as Browning designed) so they just choke up and best of all; when calling about parts for a pre-King's Ferry Ithaca, this is the answer I got.

"We didn't make that gun, it's not our problem"

Trust me, a New Ithaca is NOT an old one.

[oscar]

Several years ago I discovered South Dakota pheasants and realized that I needed something light and fast. Found a really ratty 1100 Special Field and it is a pheasant killer supreme. I suspect that an 1100 lightweight in 20 gauge would work just fine also, but I do like those 12 gauges.

[dakotasin]

first, i have to confess i am a hardcore rifle crank... so while i speak rifle fluently, i only speak shotgun a little. so, mr black's '47 ithaca confuses me a little. is this a model 37 that was made in 1947? or a model 47??

spent today looking to see what was available in the way of 20 gauges... very little. found a pair of brownings that fit the description except for the stock - i don't do english grips... unfortunate because these guns were close to what i need. i just can't get a consistent mount w/ english stocks...

found a bunch of ithaca 37's, but every one was a 12 ga. come to think of it, i've never seen an ithaca model 37 in 20 ga. does such an animal exist?

i looked pretty closely at the ithaca 37's on the used rack. none of them really jumped out as being extraordinarily light... one was marked 'lightweight', the others weren't. are all 37's lightweight, or just some? if only some, how to tell the difference?

thanks for the help.

[Dave McCracken]

A 37 runs close to a half lb lighter than an 870 set up the same way. Some versions nudge under 6 lbs.

JM Browning designed this as an upland repeater. It was first made as the Remington Model 17 in 20 gauge only.

There's a bottom line to how little an effective shotgun can weigh. It varies from shooter to shooter but for most folks runs about 6 lbs. The pixie guns are great to tote, but the lack of inertia means one has to work at keeping the swing going. I'm sure you can adapt, but you'd HAVE to adapt.

And, I dunno what dogs you're using and how close your shots will be, but I'd be using 1 1/4 oz of 5s with some choke for the second shot were I hunting the plains for Chinese Chickens. That load demands good fit, form and a decent pad to handle the thump.

Awhile back I noted the Appalachians were getting steeper during deer season. I obsessed over rifle weight, my setup then ran well over 9 lbs though it shot very well for me. Wonderful Wife observed that skipping second helpings and dropping 5 lbs would do more good than spending hundreds to drop a lb or so in gun weight.

In your shoes, I'd tweak an 870 until it was shooting like a house afire, install sling swivels, and put up with the weight.

[Mr. Black]

It's a 37 made in '47.

All the pump ithaca's are '37s, even the one's that say '87.

Ithaca pumps came in 20, 16 and 12.

The 20 is definately lighter than the 12.

Just make sure, if you get one, to get an old one and to get a 2 3/4 one. The action on the 3" is longer, there's a gap to let crap in and the lock isn't as strong.

Ithaca 20's were popular as police "whippet" guns as they are the fastest of any pump (shortest, best action and slamfire) and are light and handy.

I think they did, or do; make a "lightweight" with a 'loony reciever, but they are all pretty light. The under 6 lb 20's were talking about are steel.

If you get an old Ithaca, you will not be dissapointed. (made today like they were, they'd probably be $1000 guns; not bad considering you can get one for $200)

You just have to look for them.

PS-Ithaca's before a certain SN # were all hand fitted barrels (the # at ithacagun.com) barrels that interchanged with a gun had consecutive SN's. Therfore, if you find a gun with a SN before that #, make sure it has the barrel you want. Ithaca barrels cost enough and so does fitting. (but usually they do it free for christmas)

With that said, most 20's seem to be the long (24" maybe) modified bead barrel. Which I assume is about what you're looking for.

[El Tejon]

How about the Ber 303 for self-loaders?

[9mmMike]

The lightest SG at our home is the Mrs. newly aquired 1100 LT Special Field in 20 ga. It is waaaaaaaaaay lighter than my 870's in 12 ga. Not even remotely close.
I was thinking about getting one for myself. Very nifty SG and for your budget, you could buy two used ones.
Mike

[client32]

I had the same idea last pheasant season.
Actually, we had a couple of guys with us that didn't have their own shotguns, so I let them borrow my 12 gauges. I was left with a youth model 20 ga. 870. I don't know how much lighter it is, but it is enough smaller and shorter I had an easier time carrying it around. (or at least it felt easier to carry) Of course with the way pheasant was last year at the places we go, I didn't really need to carry anything.

[Clemson]

I just went to this website:

www.gunsamerica.com

and put Ithaca 37 into the search window. It turned up about a half dozen 20 gauge guns for sale with prices between $350 and $500. The prices are generally negotiable, and you have a dealer on your end of the transaction receive the gun and execute the paperwork. The dealers usually charge $25 or less for the service.

[HSMITH]

I have shot well over 100 pheasants in the last 3 years with my little BGH 20 gauge. I have used Winchester Super X Upland 2 3/4" shells with ONE ounce of #5 shot for 50 or so of those pheasants, the rest I have shot with my handload that duplicates the Win factory load almost identically. I shoot nothing but full choke, and won't shoot past 45 yards. 20 guage is MORE than enough gun for any pheasant that ever lived if you can shoot, there is no NEED for a 12 gauge at all.

Inside of 45 yards I OWN the sky with that little gun sporting a full choke loaded with #5 shot. More shot is not needed, more velocity is not needed. Find a 20 that fits and go with it, you will find the 12 bores feeling lonely until turkeys or waterfowl are on the program......

[dakotasin]

thanks to all for the input. i appreciate it.

went out and looked at ithaca 37's. for the most part they are running $175-300 locally (have yet to find a 20 ga. example, though). i haven't had a chance to handle a mossberg 500 yet, but suspect that it will be lighter than the 870 super mag. haven't found any bgh's on the used shelves, yet either. will be doing a pretty intense search saturday a.m. as the wife will be at a baby shower, which leaves me w/ nothing to do in town - except gun shop (pity me!).

as far as pheasant loads go, since i am shooting a 12 ga for now, i like low-brass #6's. never felt undergunned w/ that, and no meat gets destroyed... guess if i was a non-resident paying exorbitant fees to chase birds around weed-fields, i'd probably go w/ something a little heavier for insurance or better odds or whatever.

i really like my 870 supermag, especially for opening weekend. usually start out shooting geese in the morning w/ 3.5" loads, then when the buzzer sounds for pheasants, go straight to the pheasant field w/ 2.75" shells - i just love the versatility of the gun. however, the heavy 870 super is starting to wear me out a little....

i might also be familiar w/ the comment of me dropping 5 or 10 pounds for free vice dropping 1 pound on the gun for several hundred... i think my wife doesn't "get it" - its all about the gun, not much to do w/ me! :rolleyes:

[client32]

I have shot well over 100 pheasants in the last 3 years
I need to move.

There haven't been very many birds on the family's farm the last couple of years. Maybe this year will be different.

[sm]

El Tejon, I'll pay you some attention and answer your question :p

I really like the 303's, the 20 ga is a sweet gun to tote and shoot.
Very reliable and tough. With the 1 oz load of #5's ,HSMITH is right heckuva good load. Patterned real well...I mean really well.

No Puff seants here...but I do know what that gun and load will do to ducks back in the day of lead and I rolled my own.

[now hush up, someone will find out about this gun and they'll all get bought up]

[paynter2]

20 guage is MORE than enough gun for any pheasant that ever lived if you can shoot, there is no NEED for a 12 gauge at all.

I agree. I've use my SKB SxS (20 ga M/F, 28") and my 1100LT 20ga (28" full for pheasants exclusively. I believe the SKB weighs 6lbs.

I also have a couple of M1912 20 ga. Both have 25" barrels. One is full the other is modified. They weight 5.5 lbs. I prefer the auto and double for fast second shots. However, I carry a M1912 for grouse as second shots (for me) are seldom (I'm not fast enough anymore).

If you really want a sweet, fast, light weight pump, find yourself an early model 12 Winchester (nickle steel) in 20 ga.