Beretta 84F or SIG 232


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AllInTheTiming
March 15, 2007, 12:20 AM
I have a decision to make, and I'm looking for advice the good people here on THR.

Yes, I know most of you will tell me go for a 9mm over a .380 for CC, but that's not the question here. Just to let you know, I'll probably,over time, pickup a SIG 228 and Smith & Wesson .357 Model 60 with a 3" barrel.

But now, I am asking for advice on the two .380's I'm looking at for CC with Hydras or Cor Bons inside.

It's the choice of firearm --- Beretta 84F (with a decocker) or SIG 232?

What's the general thoughts & advice?

Thanks, good THR folk!

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usp9
March 15, 2007, 09:48 AM
I carried both of these fine weapons at one time or another. The closer comparison may be between the Beretta 85 and the Sig P232, as they both have single stack mags, but it's a "six of one..." type difference.

First the obvious comparison is number of rounds, and the Beretta wins that one.

Second is weight. This one depends on which Sig you choose...blue or stainless. The blue is about 17 ounces and less than the Beretta's 23. If you choose a Stainless Sig, there is no difference.

The accuracy of both models is excellent. I recently took both to the range and I'm always impressed with the natural pointability of both models. The Sig with the rubber Hogue grips is an extension of your arm. The Beretta feels like a firearm should feel...it has great ergonomics too.

Reliability is the big issue. Sigs are known for hit or miss reliability and being picky eaters. I used to own two Sigs, just as I own two Berettas. I sold one of the Sigs because it just could not be trusted.:banghead: The other works fine. Both Berettas are perfect, never failed, never flinched. The reliability goes to Beretta.

Concealability. This is important in a CCW. These two are very close in size, with the edge going to the Sig. I personally think they are too close to count. I carried both the Sig and the Beretta in the same model holster, the Galco Fletch. Because I carried the blue Sig, it did have a small weight advantage, but really, either the Sig or Beretta are small and light enough to go all day comfortably. I wear at the 4:00 position, and even driving was OK.

The trigger goes to Beretta. Both are DA/SA, both would be carried de-cocked, so the first shot is always DA. The Beretta DA trigger is much better in my opinion. The Sig is rather long and heavy. SA in both is short and light, very comparable.

I love both of these guns. By choosing one or the other, you've made a wise choice. The Beretta gives me more confidence in reliability, however, if your Sig works, then it also is a great weapon. I carry a HK P2000SK these days. Prior to that I carried the Beretta, which replaced the Sig I lost confidence in. I would not hesitate to go back to the Beretta and it's 13+1 capacity.

Cliff47
March 15, 2007, 10:12 AM
Consider, if you will, the CZ83. Chanbered in .380 ACP (as your other options), and with good ergonomics over a double-stack magazine (13 rounds). Smoth trigger, accurate, and reasonably priced.

mmike87
March 15, 2007, 02:03 PM
When you say "Sigs are picky eaters" I assume you're talking about the P232 specifically, since most P-series sigs will feed small stones if you aske them to.

That said - the ONLY SIG I have EVER had a failure with of ANY kind (and I have 6 SIG P-series pistols) is the P232SL (the stainless model.)

It is a little more picky on ammo - it won't cycle aluminum cased CCI ammo properly at all, then again my otherwise 100% reliable CZ 75 ejects aluminum cased ammo about 1" from the gun ... that ammo just behaves differently.

The SIG did calm down after about a 500 or so round breakin period. This seems to be one of the rare SIG pistols that really does require a break in period for some reason. In it's current state, this pistol is my "hot weather carry gun" and I now trust it 100%.

The 232 is the best pointing handgun in my safe, hands down. Not to sound cliche, but it's like it's part of your hand when equipped with the rubber finger-groove grips.

I am not familiar with the Beretta so I cannot comment on that.

usp9
March 15, 2007, 03:21 PM
When you say "Sigs are picky eaters" I assume you're talking about the P232 specifically, since most P-series sigs will feed small stones if you aske them to.


I specifically meant P232/230, which have a "picky eater" rep. Some are, some aren't. I owned one that was very unpredictable and one that feed anything...go figure.

cookekdjr
March 15, 2007, 03:54 PM
Sigs are known for hit or miss reliability and being picky eaters. I used to own two Sigs, just as I own two Berettas.
I believe it was the p230 that was picky with hp's. I owned a p230 (it ate everything) and sold it during hard times. Loved it so much I bought a p232 (same gun only new version) when I got more cash . My p232 eats everything. I have the alloy version, not the stainless. I have only heard of feeding problems with the stainless p232 and some early p230's when loaded with hp's.
I think the p232 alloy version is the best .380 you can buy. Its just a marvel of engineering, points perfectly and effortlessly, is very accurate, and very concealable (I carry mine in a pocket holster; it weighs 16 ounces and change). The Beretta is also an excellent gun; I have shot one and loved it. But I much prefer the SIG.
-David

tydephan
March 15, 2007, 04:10 PM
I had a Sig P230 and sold it. I have kicked myself ever since and I'm currently seeking a replacement for it. I didn't like the trigger at the time, but have since graduated to appreciating DA/SA triggers. I'd have another in a heartbeat.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k40/tydephan/Sig_232_on_vest_1_640.jpg
**picture is not mine (unfortunately), but is so sexy I can't resist posting it.

cosermann
March 15, 2007, 05:16 PM
Also had a P230 and sold it. Regret it. Nice gun. No reliability problems. Just didn't have a use for it. I did have a problem with it biting me on the hand with the slide however. Didn't bite my wife at all.

The thing that's killing me, and I just have to ask (although I'll probably regret it) is: Why .380 ACP?

There, I asked.

Flopsy
March 15, 2007, 07:11 PM
My 84F is awesome.

Awesome.

And it holds 14 with one in the pipe.

Did I mention it's awesome?

Pilot
March 15, 2007, 07:38 PM
I own the Beretta M85 FS (single stack). I wanted a slim, light, classy .380 to carry. Its been 100% reliable and is very accurate. I love the trigger and how it carries. Its also a fun little gun to shoot at the range. I have the blue variant with the plastic grips. Is it large compared to some of the new, polymer 9MM's? Yes, but I know I can hit what I aim at and it will go bang every time.

mmike87
March 15, 2007, 09:29 PM
I did have a problem with it biting me on the hand with the slide however.

Yes - it will certainly bit the web of your hand if you don't watch your grip. Mine get scary close to the slide - scary - but I've never been bit, yet. :)

cosermann
March 15, 2007, 09:59 PM
My grip if fine. Always is. :) Just depends on the shape of one's hand. The P232 with the palm swells doesn't bite me. YMMV.

silversport
March 15, 2007, 11:41 PM
I have had a Beretta 84 and a SiG P232...the P232 had the alloy frame and stainless slide...I thought it kicked too much (and I am not prone to being squeamish with recoil)...the Beretta 84 is a sweet shooter...soft shooting and can hold 14 rounds...both nice and reliable in my experience...
Bill

nathan
March 15, 2007, 11:54 PM
I would suggest a CZ 82 , cheaper price and the hi cap mags is a big plus.

Pilot
March 16, 2007, 06:27 AM
[quotethe Beretta 84 is not blowback[/quote]

Both the Beretta M84 and M85 ARE blowback designs. Neither have more felt recoil than typical for the design.

usp9
March 16, 2007, 09:30 AM
Pilot is correct. The Berettas are blowback and recoil is as one expects. Neither the Sig nor the Beretta are hard to shoot.

nathan, a CZ 82 is an interesting gun, no doubt, but it holds less ammo than the Beretta 84 (by one round), and is a good bit heavier. The CZ and Beretta are roughly the same size. The finish on the CZ 82 is horrible. If you want to compare, then use the blued CZ 83 as an example. It is a much nicer looking gun and doesn't chip like the 82 model. IMHO

AllInTheTiming
March 18, 2007, 12:52 AM
Thank you for all of the fine advice and counsel.

For more than six months, I have learned a great deal from these threads on THR. I knew I could count on the fine folk here to share good wisdom and experience.

I still have a tough choice to make. I think I'll pick up the Beretta; go for the the Smith & Wesson .357 w/ 3" barrel; a SIG 228 (if I can find one without being gouged) and a SIG 232, as well! (Tydephan, That SIG 230 sure was "purty" too!)

Your help is greatly appreciated!

AllInTheTiming

______________________________

"A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that. " Alan Ladd as 'Shane' from the film SHANE

"A man has a right to protect his property - and his life!"
Robert Duvall as 'Boss Spearman' from the film OPEN RANGE

nathan
March 18, 2007, 01:40 AM
I would get the Beretta bec it feels better on the hand. I f you want a proven design and cheaper, a Russian mak in .380 can be have in less than $250 new.

ZeroCool
March 18, 2007, 03:13 AM
Out of the two, I'd go for the Beretta. I think it looks nicer and has the mag release where it should be :neener: .

That said, with todays choice of small 9mm's, I think both are overpriced for380's (the Sig moreso than the Beretta). My .380 choice was the Bersa. Maybe not as pretty as the other two, but the only malfunction I have ever had was the mag not locking back the slide one time when I hadnt cleaned it in who knows how long. Can't ask for much better out of a 200 dollar pistol. If we ever get ccw here in MD, it will probably be my carry piece until I find something I like better.

MachIVshooter
March 18, 2007, 04:05 AM
The Sig is a fine gun, but when one considers that the external dimensions are similar, the Beretta wins on both weight and capacity. But you really couldn't go wrong with either; I challenge someone to find two better .380's than the aforementioned.

usp9
March 18, 2007, 09:24 AM
I challenge someone to find two better .380's than the aforementioned.


While I agree 100% with your statement about the Sig and Beretta, there is the Sphinx AT-380 to consider. It is also an exceptional weapon.

Ala Dan
March 18, 2007, 04:39 PM
SIG 232

silversport
March 18, 2007, 06:13 PM
sorry for the misinformation...you can remove the barrel on the 84 but it is a blowback design...
Bill

rugerfreak
March 18, 2007, 07:56 PM
I would suggest a recoil operated 9mm----easier to shoot and more power-----had both of the models in question and I would advise getting something else.

Both had a snappy recoil---why I don't own a .40 anymore too.

S&W M&P 9c---maybe........

AllInTheTiming
March 20, 2007, 01:42 AM
Beretta 84F or Beretta 84FS?

The F can "go off" if dropped and the FS doesn't. Correct?

______________________________

"A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that." Alan Ladd as 'Shane' from the film SHANE

"A man has a right to protect his property - and his life!"
Robert Duvall as 'Boss Spearman' from the film OPEN RANGE

cosermann
March 23, 2007, 10:53 AM
Quoth:
"Yes, I know most of you will tell me go for a 9mm over a .380 for CC, but that's not the question here. Just to let you know, I'll probably,over time, pickup a SIG 228 and Smith & Wesson .357 Model 60 with a 3" barrel."

Sounds like the original poster "wants" to buy a .380. People want guns for lots of reasons other than purely utilitarian ones. That's fine. The Beretta and SIG are both fine guns. You can't go wrong with either. Buy what you like. Anything else is splitting hairs.

Flopsy
March 23, 2007, 02:43 PM
Beretta 84F or Beretta 84FS?

The F can "go off" if dropped and the FS doesn't. Correct?

I'm not exactly sure, but this is what I know:

I have the 84F, and availabe info indicates it was manufactured in 1995. The FS would seem to be an updated model though I've never been able to determine exactly what the difference is. The F I have does have the hammer intercept which catches the hammer as it decocks with the decocking safety. The interceptor keeps the hammer off the firing pin as long as the safety is on. So if you dropped it hammer down, I'm pretty confident that the safety would keep the hammer from smacking the firing pin, thereby preventing discharge. If you're talking about dropping it muzzle down and the inertia of the firing pin driving it into the primer, I'm not sure if there is a mechanism specifically blocking that - but I'd guess you'd have to drop it really, really hard in order to get that kind of inertial force into the primer.

I have no qualms about carrying my 84F, and it is a very accurate and reliable shooter despite being 12 years old. I got it used last year so I can't say exactly what kind of use it got, but it was clearly not a safe queen.

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