[El Tejon]

Now that Spring is around the corner, my brother and I are planning on planting several guns and necessary ammunition. In kicking around several ideas last night, we have the following questions:

1. Since we live in a region with a high watertable, how does one best guard against water damage because of leaks in your burial tube? Grease? Total submersion of the weapon in say mineral oil? My brother suggested a plastic lined tube filled with something like mineral oil. If the ground does shift and the tube does crack, the weapon will still be encased in at least one layer.

2. What is the best way to store ammo? Vaccuum packing? Inert gas displacing the oxygen?

3. What countermeasures are effective against metal detectors? Scattering metal around burial sites? Fake/dummy spots? Metal rebar a couple of feet above tube? What about coating the burial tube? Is a coating effective, like asphalt?

4. Do you think there are any countermeasures for seismic probes?

[Henry Bowman]

1. Cosmoline + vacuum seal bag + PVC pipe with glued caps.

2. Vacuum pack + dessicant

3. Plant an old alternator or starter above vertical tube, plus some other junk around. No idea about effective shielding

4. No idea

[Outlaw Man]

Just what I've read, no actual experience:

You can use dry ice to flush oxygen out of the tube (keep the opening turned up). Also, if it's something safe to do it you can use a candle. The flame will extinguish itself when the oxygen is gone.

[ConfuseUs]

I would say coat them thoroughly in cosmoline, double wrap in heavy duty poly bags and then put them in PVC tubes. Bury the PVC/baggie/cosmoline/gun assemblies with a good fertilizer and water twice a week. Although certain parts of guns are grown on trees it would be interesting to find out if actual guns can grow on trees. :neener:

I suppose that the ammo could be stored in watertight plastic boxes that you could shrink wrap. The actual plastic battle packs could be buried as is, but I think that would inhibit sprouting, and you wouldn't get a good crop.

[Hardtarget]

In my area there are small caves. I've thought about the same "wrap/tube" system and then into the cave. Placed on a raised area or shelf formation to avoid water. Then careful dry stack the opening to camoflage everything.
Mark.

[ilcylic]

Hose 'em down with cosmoline, add silica gel packets, wrap 'em in lead sheeting, solder it shut, coat it in another layer of cosmo, stick it in nylon tubing, and heat weld it closed.

Not, y'know, that I've ever done that. But it seems like it should work. I don't think lead corrodes in water, though it may electrolytically, if the right minerals are present in the water. I suppose you could wrap them in gold sheet, instead, but that's liable to be cost prohibitive.

I kinda of wish I had your problems. In a SHTF scenario out here in NM, just finding water is going to be one of my biggest problems.

[txgho1911]

3. Alternator or other debris along with other obvious accessories like a fence or metal shelving above ground with clear and active utility. Possibly an excavation on the edge of a foundation or other concrete concealment that can be bypassed when you know where to dig.
Gravel driveway where the last retired car or tractor can easily be de-wheeled like abandoned. Engine block and frame is heavy enough to mask any detection equipment used at a distance (500'-15000' special Predator drone).

[rbernie]

how does one best guard against water damage because of leaks in your burial tube? Grease? As much as I've heard, cosmoline is best since it thickens and will not run, drip, and/or evaporate off under any likely environmental conditions. I'd not feel silly using a similar thickening grease spray, such as commercial motorcycle chain lube. Just be sure to hit the bore really well.

I would also have the seedlings re-park'ed before planting..

What about coating the burial tube? Is a coating effective, like asphalt?
To the best of my knowledge - no. The best you can do is provide sacrificial ferrous material above/around the tube, or place it such a manner that direct overhead access is eliminated (e.g. under the foundation slab of an outbuilding).

What is the best way to store ammo? Vacuum packing? Inert gas displacing the oxygen?
Ammo has been stored in simple watertight cans for decades without issue. I'd likely just use milsurp ammo cans and include a liberal amount of desiccant.

[Barbara]

Dude, no way are you going to be able to grow guns like that. :neener:

[NukemJim]

Dude, no way are you going to be able to grow guns like that.

Maybe not but it would be fun to have him try it anyway.

NukemJim

[ceetee]

Lead is actually a very good choice. When exposed to air and water, the surface layer of lead molecules oxidize. These new lead oxide molecules bond tightly to the underlying lead, sealing it off from the air, and halting the corrosion process. The only caveat is that running water will (over time) wash away the surface layer. So don't sink anything coated in lead into a river.

[bogie]

Why are you burying guns?

If it turns out you need to hide them, you'll have to dig 'em up to shoot the sonsabitches who are causing you to need to hide them.

Save the time and effort, buy more ammo, and practice more at 300 yards with interesting centerfire rifles.

[ArfinGreebly]

Yeah.

I wuz wondering myself.

El T? Do you know something you'd like to share?

[SWModel19]

Along the lines of what bogie said, some time back I read somewhere (here, in fact, if I recall) "If it is time to bury your guns, it is time to dig them up."

Not that I'm being critical - I recently remodeled part of my house, and I seriously considered getting some cosmoline and long plastic bags and hiding a few things in a wall or two. But, I figured if I ever moved, I'd have to do some drywalling before I left. Also, I enjoy shooting everything I own too much to squirrel it away - I'd find myself recovering it before long anyway.:D

[BB93YJ]

My White's Electronics XLT detector seems best suited for finding beercan pull tabs... that being said, find an old piece of corrugated tin, like the type found on an old barn roof, bury the tubes vertically with the top of the tubes about a foot or so below the surface. Put about six inches of soil over the tubes, then scatter a handfull of nails, scrapmetal or such, add more soil then take a piece of the scrap tin and bury it just a few inches below the surface, over the tube and above the nails. A largish piece of tin will give a big hit on a detector. If/when the detectorist digs down and hits the tin he may move on, but in case he removes the tin and again sweeps his coil over the area under the tin, he'll come upon the nails/metal scraps, and he'll most likely look elsewhere. It'll help if it's not out of the ordinary for tin and other types of metal scraps, etc., to be found buried in that particular location.

[sm]

El Tejon,

I cannot find an old thread at TFL that had some good information about this.

You might want to PM the author of Enemies Foreign and Domestic if Matthew does not see this thread and chime in first. ;)

Henry's post is pretty much what I recall being advised.

[ilcylic]

bogie, arfin, model19: it's the same idea as having a "throwaway gun" you can plant on a guy if you ever have to shoot someone. Bury some guns somewhere, along with ammo and magazines, then if anyone ever comes a-knockin, you can hand over "all your guns" as docile as a lamb... then go dig up what ya hid 'cause it's sure time, and... well, nothing sufficiently high road follows along in that sentence.

[45/70]

Dumb idea. Really dumb. Viet Cong buried guns in the dirt. AK's mostly, when they stormed Saigon the stocks were rotted off and the guns wrapped in rags.

If it gets to the point in the US that you need a gun that you've buried, you're gonna be DEAD first.

Fantasyland in here gets hip deep too often. Join the freekin' Marines if you want to play soldier.

[Titan6]

What they said but don't forget to plant several briars near the area that will spread and cover the area. People don't like looking for things when the looking is hard; they would rather look in an easy spot.

[Fred Fuller]

El T,

Pay no nevermind to the naysayers.

For those of you abhorrent at the idea of safely storing utilitarian firearms over the long term, just think of it as using Mother Earth as your gunsafe.

Clean everything thoroughtly first. Depending on your container's dimensions, you might need to field strip the piece, remove buttstocks, pistol grips, barrels (in the case of takedown items) etc. Sometimes it is a good idea to package wood components separately.

As a preservative, I have found plain old baby bum grease (PJ, or petroleum jelly) to work quite well. The 'store brand' is fine, doesn't have to be the high priced spread. Goes on easily with a stiff brush. Use the appropriate 'mop' and cleaning rod to coat the bore. I confess to having never planted anything under exceptionally harsh conditions (in ground subject to frost heave, below the water table etc) however. If those are the sorts of circumstances you will be dealing with, you might wish to employ cosmoline.

I have found that a layer or three of waxed paper on top of the PJ is a great idea. Keeps PJ from getting all over everything, mainly. Helps keep the PJ where it does the most good, and adds another layer of protection to the article inside. Pad projections like sights, bolthandles etc by tearing a strip of waxed paper, folding it over until it is several thicknesses, wrapping it around and taping it in place with masking tape.

On top of this I like to add a layer of butcher paper. This is heavy freezer paper with a plastic layer on the inside. Wrap as neatly as possible and secure all seams with masking tape.

Then into the heavy plastic tubing it goes, to be heat sealed. I don't try to vacuum pack, just squeeze out as much air as possible by hand before sealing.

And then the parcels are ready to go into their containers. Containers should be large enough to store complete items in the same container, along with all the necessaries to get it useable- sling, cleaning kit, magazines, web gear, whatever. I don't recommend splitting components of a given item between two containers- keep complete items together. I don't generally package ammo in the same container as a rule with the item, YMMV. I like to assemble as much of a complete set of battle rattle in a container as I can. No need to waste space, fill it with a rolled up pistol belt, sidearm, holster etc.- whatever can be stuffed in that might be useful.

Containers... ah yes. Whatever works, of course. PVC is classic, and hard to beat. But always keep your eye open for other alternatives. Sonobouy tubes, for example. The plastic tubes 81mm mortar rounds come in, for small stuff. Artillery powder tubes. Useful storage containers literally abound, to the open mind and watchful eye.

As to placing caches- there's an entire science to that. They don't all have to be buried. If buried, countermeasures are sometimes good IF NOT TOO OBVIOUS. Collapsed building or burned-down building with a tin roof is a good site. Ditto old trash dumps. Any place a pipe is already buried might work, millimeter wave radar can show disturbed ground, so LOTS of recently disturbed ground in the area is good. And so on.

I have been 'putting away' what I call giveaways for a good while. Remember the days when you could get a new SKS and a 1000 rounds of ammo for $150? Trading stock, or seeing to it some dependable person who shows up emptyhanded can pull his or her own weight, or backups for a really rainy day- call it what you will. It's good to be prepared.

So far I have only had to pull one cache, to give to a friend when I found out he had literally sold everything he owned to pay med school bills. He got a Mossberg 500 with two barrels (18" and 28") and a decent 1911A1. I offered him a choice of anything I had, and that's what suited him. The cache had been in place for several years, and was perfectly fine when recovered- a nice test to the method.

Keeping extra stuff safe under a variety of circumstances is the name of the game here. Has nothing to do with paranoia or anything else. The primary stuff is always available if needed, nothing wrong with stashing extras in a safe and secure fashion.

Carry on...

lpl/nc

[Koobuh]

Something to consider if you choose to use PVC pipe and bury it vertically...
It would suck to have to dig up all of it, so here's what you do.
Get TWO sizes of pipe, one which will fit nicely, end-caps and all, inside the other. Make sure the larger pipe is long enough that your smaller one can fit comfortably inside, with caps attached, and a handle on its top.
Prepare your cache.
I would actually discourage gooping up your firearm for storage. At least not with cosmoline, that would render it useless until it's had a thorough cleanup.
Depending on conditions, would you have time or facilities for this process?
Use an anti-corrossive oil that bonds to the metal, like corrossion-x, and wrap everything in treated plastic. Place the gun(s) in the smaller pipe, along with ammo, cleaning kit (don't forget this!), maybe a small survival kit (bugout altoid tin, perhaps), and a fresh pair of tighty whities. No gum, because you're there because you need to kick ***, not chew bubblegum.
Use a couple dessicant packs (silica gel cat litter can be used to make these, btw), maybe some dry ice (CO2 is heavier than oxygen, after all, and it will pool in the tube like water, excluding oxygen and anything else that's lighter), to assure a bone-dry, oxygen-free environment, and you're good on that end.

Now, you're working with pvc pipe, which is the same stuff they used for plumbing your house. It's cheap, durable, and if prepped, will seal with epoxy or silicone glue completely water tight. Plumbing, remember? Right.
It will also be very close to completely air-tight, at least enough that it makes no difference.
After you're done prepping it, glue (or tie) a synthetic rope or plastic handle to one end, which will be the 'top'. Make sure it's strong enough to pull up the weight of the entire assembly. Don't compromise the seal with drilling or screws, unless you're prepared to seal up every joint inside and out with a bunch of silicone.
So, you have your completely sealed, oxygen purged 'pill', ready to cache.

Now, you take the larger pipe, seal one end, and dig a hole that will fit it vertically, plus a couple feet for cover and decoy refuse. Backfill around it up to just under the open top, and place your pill inside of it, handle up of course. Place some more dry ice on top of the pill if you like, just to be safe, and put the cap on. I wouldn't glue it permanently (that defeats the purpose of this exercise), maybe just some silly putty to keep it from coming off on its own. A handle on this cap would be handy too, just so you can pull it off quickly.

What you have now is as quick-access a cache as can be accomplished with pvc. Just dig down to the top of the big pipe, take off the lid, and pull out your pill, ready to go. This way you don't have to dig up the whole darn thing, because pipe is very hard to pull out of compacted dirt end-first.

Hope you brought something to break the pill open with at that point, 'cause pvc is tough stuff. ;) An axe would probably work, if you were careful and left enough room for everything to be safe at one end while you worked on it.


Big points to remember, you're burying this gun because you expect to have to use it when you dig it up. Keeping it in operational shape is more important than worrying about rust. Other prep work will assure your firearm is protected from oxidation.
Don't forget additional items you'll wish you hadn't neglected, like a cleaning kit with plenty of consumables, a token survival kit, and good quality ammunition.
BDUs or a camo poncho couldn't hurt, nor would ammo pouches and a load-bearing kit, since you aren't necessarily going out to retrieve your cache with everything you need to fight.
Also important- don't put anything in your pill that will expire or spoil. That means batteries, food (even survival rations), medication, water packs, whatever. Put these things in a second pill on top of your other, if you must, but don't compromise your main cache's indefinite survivability.

"Fantasyland in here gets hip deep too often. Join the freekin' Marines if you want to play soldier."
Know what that reminds me of?
"If you want to play with guns, join the army"
Not every enemy of freedom fights under a foreign standard. Be mindful of how you apply your criticism, 45/70, we all have something at stake.

[Dorryn]

Fantasyland in here gets hip deep too often. Join the freekin' Marines if you want to play soldier.

I am a Marine. I still plan on burying guns and cacheing ammo.

You can bet those victims of Katrina who had their weapons confiscated wished they had a stash somewhere. And they lived.... yet again disproving the "if its time to bury guns its time to dig them up" philosophy.

[feedthehogs]

I thought I've seen an influx of black suvs and helos.

But they were invisible, so I wasn't sure.

Wow........

[Hemicuda]

I can't even find all the guns in my house, and I have an accurate list of what I am looking for... what in the WORLD makes you think the BATFE could do better... so why bother burying them?

[El Tejon]

Hemi and others, why you ask: Because burying a few guns or more is cheap insurance.

Koobuh, thanks much, something to think about. My brother was advocating a tube within a tube concept. I was thinking a full sized AR (if I'm worried about stock damage to milsurps, my brother suggested buying replacement stocks) with a Glock as a pistol, no wood to corrode and even I can work on both weapons.

45/70, no fantasy warrior here. However, to me, it is a fantasy to assume everything will be AOK. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best and all of that.:)

Do we have any members that are really into metal detectors? Wonder if there is a forum for metal detectors devotees?:confused:

[PA Highlander]

You can bet those victims of Katrina who had their weapons confiscated wished they had a stash somewhere.

A little note on caching - be absolutly sure of flood plains and storm surges. Water will move the earth quite a ways, resulting in your cache bobbing around in a lake, ocean, or widely displaced from where you placed it. :eek: Historical data should provide a guide, plan for worse than a '100 year' event. Not that I've cached anything, but I've gave it some thought. :scrutiny:

[Dorryn]

Water will move the earth quite a ways

A very good point. One I have considered, but dismissed, as the area in which I would likely bury it has a reasonably stable earth/rock basis. Plus i routinely dig up things from the early 20th century... so I assume the earth is unchanging enough for burying anything long-term. I feel bad for people who live in Florida for that reason.

Was it Groucho Marx who said, "My real estate agent called from Florida. Good news! They found land on my property." :D

[El Tejon]

Yes, the earth does churn where I am and there is water everywhere. Rocks left over from the last Ice Age bubble up to the surface at one of my gun clubs. Great for kids, bad news for those of us that voluntary to dig them up to complete our work hours.:scrutiny: :D

[jeep-2]

simple answer, make a vault out of concrete that looks like one of those giant rocks on your place, no digging, no buring, no cosmoline.
Just hope the water don't get to deep and cover the weapons so you can't find them

[El Tejon]

I have a two story ranch close to downtown. May work for my brother, but I'm a city boy.

[1 old 0311]

The U.S. Army printed a 'The Special Forces Cashing Manual.'
The # is TC-31/29A. That should cover you.

[outofbattery]

You can bet those victims of Katrina who had their weapons confiscated wished they had a stash somewhere. And they lived.... yet again disproving the "if its time to bury guns its time to dig them up" philosophy.


Yeah,but they would've needed to dig up their SCUBA tanks before they dug up their guns.

[Essex County]

By all the inginuity and technicay knowledge. But, honestly I just can't see it. If your going to need it why bother to dig it up? Plus you would be tieing up dollars with no ready return. Hey, if it makes you feel warmer and fuzzier go for it. Essex

[frostbiker]

I have a former neighbor, way back when, who planted a whole crop of guns in his back yard. Our neighborhood was in a 100year floodplain. Lots of rain and soft ground. He was in Austin on business for a week and as he's driving home, stops to call the wife (pre-cellphone days). She informs him while he was out, she sold and closed on the house. Buyer paid cash-as is. They now have thirty days to move. Of the 100 or so guns he buried, he recovered about 75% of his stash. The shifting soil in our part of Houston back then moved everything around. With all the building going on in that part of my old neighborhood these days, I wouldn't be surprised to see if one or two of those guns pops up in someone else's backyard blocks away.

He also has a couple hundred acres out in some distant part of Texas. He stored the rest of his collection in an underground cemetary vault (cement construction, need a backhoe and crane to lift the lid off). That is somewhere easily accessible, but nowhere near the main house. The crypt works very well to store all his ammo and guns properly sealed and dessicated. Now that he's retired, his wife is threatening to sell the country property, too.

I always thought, for those who have a septic tank, you could bury your guns along the outer edge of the tank. Someone who has to access the tank is not going to dig up the entire tank, just the access port, so the sides will stay covered. Someone may look in the tank, but not around the edges.

You could also bury it up against a chain link fence. Tie one end off to the fence post so shifting soil doesn't aid in your stash creeping off to the neighbors yard.

Or you could just do like the Terminator did and put all your guns in a coffin at the local cemetery.

[Sam Adams]

She informs him while he was out, she sold and closed on the house.

Now that he's retired, his wife is threatening to sell the country property, too.

Unless she owns the property in question as separate property, that can't happen in Texas. Both spouses usually have to consent to the sale, as both own a 50% community property interest.

[Sam Adams]

Note to the "if you have to bury them, its time to dig them up" crowd:

This is about reserves, hopefully reserves unknown to those who'd like to take them. We all have guns "on paper" (i.e. 4473s), and you'd have to be a blissninnie to believe that they'll miss you if they come to get them all. Maybe they will miss - government is notoriously inefficient...but will they be inefficient with YOU? I don't like taking such chances. Let them come to your door and take what's on paper without any violence or suspicions being raised - a week or two later, you go out for a few hours some night and return with some self protection.

The Russians only beat the Germans in WW2 because of substantial unknown reserves of material, supplies and trained men. Without those things, the Germans would have won and those of us left would've been speaking German (though my parents would likely have been lampshades somewhere - small ones, since they were kids at the time - and I'd have never been born).

It isn't about fantasy or wanting to play marine, etc. It may be easy to criticize people that squirrel things away (or who study the subject), but I don't think that we live in an ideal world. I'm not one of those laying awake at night wondering if a truckload of BATF or UN goons is going to kick down my door, kill the cat and take my weapons...but that stuff has happened even in this country. What is it that the Boy Scouts say?

BTW, the more that the gov't and any hostile foreigners read about guns being hidden all over this continent-sized country, the less likely they are to try to take the ones that AREN'T hidden - because there'd be little point in the exercise.

As for the problem of rotted wooden stocks - that's what fiberglass is all about. Buy a cheap gun or 2 off paper (where legal), bubba-ize it, and you no longer have to worry about anything except the metal (and this thread covered that topic quite well).

[vynx]

Hmmm, the casket cemetary thing is interesting.

My parents have 2 above ground crpyts (not sure if this is correct terminology) purchased for when they pass on. They have purchased what amount to 2 drawers - one for each of them. What would prevent someone from adding a few items to one of these?

I wonder if they are secure enough? At least they are above ground in a place you can go for mourning ao they would be easier to access and you could always fashion a horizontal safe into one of the drawers?

[AK103K]

Personally, I'm not a fan of burying guns, but hey, whatever floats your boat. A couple of suggestions though, from someone who works outside year round, "looks" for ferrous metals with a metal detector, and digs things up for work.

If you live in an area where the ground freezes, you will have to consider how you intend to dig them up if the weather is cold and there is frost in the ground. Your going to need more than a shovel, and its going to be a LOT of work. It can literally take hours of hard digging just to get down below the frost line. You will need to either bring tools with you, or make provisions for them to be there where you can easily access them. A couple of bags of charcoal and starter might also be a good idea. Have a little BBQ over your stuff while you wait. ;)

If you bury metal items like rifles vertically, they are MUCH easier to find with a metal detector. Buried horizontally, they are usually harder to find, unless you know what your looking for. The magnetic field around the barrels runs lengthwise and the field reads loudest at the ends, and much quieter, sometimes not at all in the middle.

Another issue you may have if you live where there is a risk of high water table, and especially in loose soils, is the chance the "vessel" will float. You'd be amazed at what water can push up out of the ground.

[MPFreeman]

Random thought with MPF

Use an 8"x60" PVC pipe. Cap one end. Line the pipe with a heavy plastic bag. Fill pipe to the brim with mineral oil or other metal preserving oil. Put in metal gun parts. Cap pipe and seal.

The metal gun parts are now totally protected from air & h2o.

Hide pipe in wood pile, inside grain bin, old graveyard, anywhere.

Wood parts would have to be packed by other means.

[El Tejon]

Matt, I've been told that mineral oil will dissolve the PVC pipe.

[silverlance]

to counter metal detectors -

Strew your entire property with pieces of metal ranging from screws to broken car doors.

Keep a rusty chassis or two on your land as if you work on cars as a hobby. The point is to make sure that the detector goes off EVERY SQUARE INCH.

As for the guns, get a C&R and buy some. I would recommend Mosin-Nagants M39 but really beat up ones with good bores. Get some M59/66 SKSes in OK condition. Get a bunch of CZ-52s and crates of 7.62x25 which is dirt cheap right now.

You now have an excellent long range rifle, an excellent intermediate range rifle (especially if you hack off that useless GL, gl sight, bayonet and lug), and an excellent sidearm. All are quality firearms and all are off the books. If the black helicopters come you could say that you sold them all and never kept good records like you were suppoed to (you ARE keep a bound book though, this is only if the JBTs with red armbands come to your door... then you burn that book... or you give them an edited version...).

Best of all, ammo is dirt cheap for all of them right now and 5000 rounds for each can be had for about $1500. all already sealed in very nice watertight cans, no need to make your own methods. just wrap, bag, wrap, bag, and bury.

The x54R round will penetrate all but the best level III armor, quite possibly even that with steel core.

The x39 round in steel core will penetrate easily up to level III.

The x25 round in steel core will penetrate up to level III.

This is only a crazy plan for when the aliens come to infiltrate the government. But hey, we've all got your tin foil hats on right now....

[El Tejon]

silverlance, you have experience with metal detectors? Would your suggestions only confuse them or defeat them? What about ground penetrating radar? What are the best countermeasures.

No need to worry about me buying guns (I would never think anyone would worry about El Tejon not having enough guns). I've had a C&R license for some time now, I'm a former FFL (Class 1), and have been buying my own guns for several decades. I've got one or two extras.:D

There is no need to put on your tin foil. It is happening now. Gun confiscations in California, New York, Chicago, and New Orleans. Some think the ostrich defense of sticking one's head in the dirt or putting fingers in ears is best, I prefer to be a fuzzy bunny (run and hide).:)

[Chris Rhines]

Ground-penetrating radar is fake - the technology doesn't work and never has. Metal detectors and seismics are what I'd worry about.

- Chris

[1911JMB]

http://www.lacoctelera.com/myfiles/ydesperte/terminator3.jpeg

[Seancass]

this is a rather interesting thread. i'd like to add 2 simple things. First, if you hide something on your property, it can be found. you could bury a thimble 5 feet deep and it can be found. More importantly, the government largely doesnt know how many guns you have. GO buy 1000 sks's and mosins and build a garden shed out of them. They'll never know the difference. .

[GhostlyKarliion]

Sorry for reviving this thread, my reasons are two

1st...

The U.S. Army printed a 'The Special Forces Cashing Manual.'
The # is TC-31/29A. That should cover you.

Very informative manual, for anyone looking, here is the entire text

http://survival.anomalies.net/cachman.html

The root page for that link is here

http://survival.anomalies.net/survival.html


2nd...

About burying a tube within a tube, my only thought about this is the question that comes to mind

Wouldn’t ground-penetrating radar expose the tube within a tube like a fat man stuck in the chimney Christmas morning?

[Leatherneck]

All well and good to cache weapons and ammo; but don't do it underground. Hide it in plain sight, above-ground, such as in a place repulsive to most. Old houses have many such places; new ones, not so much. Be creative.

TC

[Titus]

Sneak onto the Lafayette golf course late one night and bury them. Then they'll be underground and underwater most of the time. No one will think to look for them there!

[txgho1911]

Build a steel framed house. Have the contractors leave the sheetrock and such to yourself. Call them back when you give up and have them finnish and complete the drywall.
Sell the house within 2 years and just never forget where it is.

[Mainsail]

Couldn’t you wrap them all up tight as previously described and drop them into your septic tank? Nobody’s going in there if they don’t have to.

[AK103K]

Nobody’s going in there if they don’t have to.
Every other year they do.



I just leave mine out in the open on the Airsoft pile. :)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p4694e3b9e785f66be7055eb57f2be37e/ea2c831b.jpg

[coelacanth]

caching is cool - but digging all this up unobserved may be the trick you can't pull off when it counts. I have a plain looking coffee table in the front room with a hinged top and a hidden catch. Inside are 2 rifles, 2 handguns, some ammo for both and a few other odds and ends I might find handy. They hide in plain sight and are accessable in about 30 seconds. Everything inside is strapped down and you can move the table without realizing anything is out of the ordinary except that it weighs a bit more than it should. It is for all intents and purposes a military weapons crate with legs and a nice top and would pass muster as furniture in a truck transporting household goods. Unless you can guarantee access to your cache under favorable conditions it may be of no use to you. Witness the number of weapons caches our troops find every week in Iraq that were abandoned because of Murphy's Law. Good luck - hope this was helpful.

[Silver Bullet]

There's a more recent thread atop the boards right now on this subject, but I want to reply to this one because the other thread is drawing more naysayers than contributers.

1) If the barrel aligns and focuses the magnetic signature, shouldn’t it be sufficient to just install barrel end first (down) in a vertical cache ?

2) Regarding metal objects on top. If the detector can detect the cache at its depth (2 ft?), then maybe that’s a good idea. Otherwise, it seems to me you’re just calling attention to that spot in the ground. After the distraction is tossed, the bad guys might probe the spot again, now a foot closer to the cache and possibly detect it where previously they wouldn’t. Maybe putting it just an inch above the cache would mask the barrel signature.

We really need someone with a good detector to run some tests and report. (Box-O-Truth …)

I do like the idea of a whole yard full of iron junk, though.

3) Metal detectors sites. This site consists of coin collectors using metal detectors to find coins.

http://forums.collectors.com/categories.cfm?catid=28

Lots of good information about which brands work better and maybe about the depth to which they work. It seems that some detectors are designed for a particular application; in this case, for recognizing the magnetic signature of coins in the ground. I point that out because the same model that works great for coins might not be the best choice for other shapes and sizes.

4) While we’re on the subject of coins: coin collectors discovered to their dismay that PVC-based coin holders would cause a certain deterioration of some metals. PVC is now a dirty word in numismatics and almost all new coin holders are specifically PVC-free. I would guess the impact in this caching application would be minimal. Food-worthy containers (and presumably food saver bags) are PVC-free.

5) I see lots of recommendations for food-saver vacuum-sealed bags but no mention of the old Bianchi Blue Bags or the newer Kleen Bore rust-inhibiting bags. Would it be possible to use a food saver to suck the air out of a Kleen Bore bag before sealing it ? They might be too thick and stiff.

6) I take it that when you apply cosmoline, you don't disassemble the gun to apply to each part individually, you simply pack in the cosmoline into all the nooks and crannies (what is a cranny ?) and cover the outside ? Also, I found an interesting reference to removing cosmoline. Essentially, they use hot water or steam to melt the cosmoline out.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/cosmoline/index.asp

7) I really like the idea of the double tube. Additional benefits are that you could bury the outer tube ahead of time if you want to wait before caching. Then when you’re ready you just have to dig down to the top of the outer tube, open it, and drop in the inner tube. Maybe fill it temporarily with a piece of rebar if you think someone is going to be coming ‘round with a metal detector, just to see if they can snag it.

[CTPistol]

open up a wall and re-sheetrock it.

nice and dry and accessible with a swift kick when needed.

I dont buy burying guns. You can hide em in plain sight.

[Bazooka Joe71]

So have you decided yet El T?

Hide an extra one for me.:)

[ConstitutionCowboy]

All the hidden guns in the world will not help when they come for you. Hide an arsenal if you think it necessary, but remember to keep a few handy just in case they come for you. Your arms are only half the freedom equation. Your arms need an eye to aim them and a finger to pull the trigger.

'Sides, it'd be just my luck for the confiscators to bivouac right on top of my stash...

Woody

Our government was designed by our Founding Fathers to fit within the framework of our rights and not vise versa. Any other "interpretation" of the Constitution is either through ignorance or is deliberately subversive. B.E. Wood

[mekender]

part of the foundation of my house is a solid concrete slab that is the front porch... i was thinking about making an "extension" to that slab... its about 3 feet high and about 6x6' so i was thinking about molding an addition out of softer concrete... i saw a thing recently about making aerated concrete... you mix in like 20% shaving creme to the mix... the concrete looks and feel completely solid, but hitting it with a hammer will turn it into powder... so long as the paint and texture matched, no one would ever know the difference...

[kludge]

1911JMB, that's a fantastic idea.

[silverlance]

As someone noted, there are other solutions than burial.
For instance, the gas tanks of cars can be opened up for containment. Not the one you drive.. the cobwebbed "collector". ditto for old washing machines, dryers, television sets, etc.

as well, don't forget that it may be that a handgun is the best. separate into tiny bits, then secure all over the place. take a cz52 for instance. how about a barrel inside a lamp tube; the frame in a hollow brick; etc.

think of them as "liberators".

[UhKlem]

Two other options I might suggest as an alternative to burying guns needed for a rainy day:

1. Give a gun to someone who has shown interest or is philosophically for private arms, but hasn't bothered. An inexpensive .22 bolt action, SKS, Enfield, or more expensive Ruger 10/22 make good 'gate-way' guns. Then every now and then give that person a brick or a few boxes of ammo and take them out to the range.

2. Should gun prohibition go into full swing, it will be like the war on drugs, with snitches being the primary mode of intel, not aerial ground penetrating radar surveys or house to house metal detector sweeps. Option 1 means the people who know you shoot are at risk themselves unless they turn in their guns. This could also backfire because if they are caught, they could turn you in. It is good for public servants to be kept busy and feeling useful, so one tactic I can see being applied is the 'storing' of cheap Saturdaynight Raid Specials in the toilet tanks of known anti-gun acquaintances and public figures. Imagine their horror when they get turned in anonymously for violating the possession laws they once supported. As long as the gun prohibition squads are busy they may not get around to gun farmers.

3. Buy stock in private prison companies, it will be a booming business.

[starboard]

If one were to create a cache, one would be remiss not to include a tough, inexpensive, and practical Mora.

http://www.ragweedforge.com/SwedishKnifeCatalog.html

The laminated blades in particular are especially tough. Mora knives are highly regarded in the knife community (same folks who collect $400 Busse and Chris Reeve blades) for their exceptional utility and value. IMHO every vehicle and BOB (and cache) should have one.

[Markbo]

This is a serious question: Why?

What is the purpose of burying a cache of anything? I am not trying to start anything...I just don't understand why you would need to do that.

[El Tejon]

Markbo, why not ask Winston Smith?:D

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Many mention cosmoline. Where do you buy it? Never have seen it for sale. Is it available under another name on the civilian market?

900F

[fixyurgun]

Brownells sells cosmoline. They also sell storage bags rated for direct burial. That would make a good second line of defense if your pvc tube cracked. Jim

[vzenmn]

Out of highschool I worked in a car detailing place were I did under coating,truckbed liners, and rust proofing. The rust proofing we use was a bit like cosmo and came in a 1gallon bucket . We just sprayed it on and would leave a thick greasy film.

I forget what it was called but I'll look in some car product websites and see what I can find.

[Wayne02]

My biggest problem with the whole bury some guns deal is I'd never be able to remember where I buried them. :) I have trouble remembering where I park my truck everyday, much less where I buried guns years ago. With my luck I'd eventually build a barn or other structure with a concrete floor over where the guns were buried, and then find the map of where the guns are located 2 months after completion of the building... :)

[RKBABob]

There ae so many places to hide things in your house, maybe burying isn't the best idea.

In the attic, under the insulation...
Inside the walls...
In a secret compartment, under the wall-to-wall carpeting...
The ash clean-out under your fireplace...
Under the fridge or dishwasher...
Inside your sofa, boxspring or matress, then upholster over it...
Inside your PC tower (there's suprising room in some of them)...
Under a false bottom in your kitchen cabinets...
In a half-full drum of used motor oil in the garage...

[kludge]

old news: http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=14711

Even as the organization hurries to get the devices to combat forces, DARPA already is laying groundwork for bigger plans that build on this technology.

Proposals are expected this week for the new "Visi Building" technology that's more than a motion detector. It will actually "see" through multiple walls, penetrating entire buildings to show floor plans, locations of occupants and placement of materials such as weapons caches, Baranoski said.

"It will give (troops) a lot of opportunity to stake out buildings and really see inside," he said. "It will go a long way in extending their surveillance capabilities."

The device is expected to take several years to develop. Ultimately, servicemembers will be able to use it simply by driving or flying by the structure under surveillance, Baranoski said.


Big brother? :yawn: I'm freakin' Superman with x-ray vision!

[Blue Line]

What about burying it in plain sight? Using your pvc tube and cosmoline put the gun in false drain hole in your basement slab. The tube is sealed and then glue on a drain cover on top. That way you don't have to go look for your heater in time of need. Think about some of those WWII movies like "The Great Escape" and where they hid thier tunnel opening etc. Everything was in plain sight but he guards didn't notice.

[Javelin]

If your going to bury your firearms... it makes more sense to bury them in your own home (aka walls, under your flooring, whatever).

Just my 2 cents.

:)

[Markbo]

So everyone knows how and where but nobody can answer why?

[takhtakaal]

So everyone knows how and where but nobody can answer why?

Why?

On April 19, 1775, British and American soldiers exchanged fire in the Massachusetts towns of Lexington and Concord. On the night of April 18, the royal governor of Massachusetts, General Thomas Gage, commanded by King George III to suppress the rebellious Americans, had ordered 700 British soldiers, under Lieutenant Colonel Francis Smith and Marine Major John Pitcairn, to seize the colonists' military stores in Concord, some 20 miles west of Boston.

At Lexington Green, the British were met by 77 American Minute Men led by John Parker. At the North Bridge in Concord, the British were confronted again, this time by 300 to 400 armed colonists, and were forced to march back to Boston with the Americans firing on them all the way. By the end of the day, the colonists were singing "Yankee Doodle" and the American Revolution had begun. Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, 1774-1789 includes a Time Line of the events that followed.

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/today/apr19.html

[Markbo]

Ooooooooh!!!!

The British are coming. :rolleyes:

[Autolycus]

Well Markbo if you don't understand after seeing Hurricane Katrina, the passage of many Unconstitutional Laws, and just an ever increasing dissatisfaction with the country, then you just cannot understand.

Gun confiscations have already happened right here in the United States. Why not have some spares in case the government comes to get your guns?

[Prince Yamato]

Bury my guns?!? I live in an apartment. I like to entertain. Maybe I'll have a "cocktail party" of a different kind if they come looking for my guns... :)

What about everything the other guys suggested but you bury your guns IN a septic tank (unused of course). I mean who the hell would look for anything in a septic tank?

[Dustinthewind]

I used to install septic systems, and I must admit that the idea is intriguing. A lot of septic systems involve two tanks, one to catch the solids and one which is used as a distribution box to the laterals. Tanks are usually 1000 gallon capacity and come in concrete or plastic form. The plastic would be easier to make water tight. A lot of septic systems also use lift pumps to pump the water to an elevated lateral field, so electrical connections next to the tank would not be out of the ordinary. You could add a second tank for your cache that is next to the septic system, but not connected to it. Water proof the tank, add a dehumidifier and you would have plenty of space for weapons, ammo, a limited supply of food, clothing, etc. The downside to this would be the cost involved.

[Titan6]

The cost would not be as high as you might think. There are no plumbing lines to run (or you might run a dummy line yourself), no permits, no real skilled labor involved that you would have to pay for if you were putting in a real system. the tank would cost a bunch but not much more than a high dollar safe but with much higher capacity.

[230RN]

I was thinking of this for a trunk gun (though now, since I park in a firearms-free garage, I can't keep one there.)

Coat the barrel with preservative, but add a Boresnake(TM) or other pull-through device in the barrel. If solidly packed with the goop of your choice, run a copper wire down the bore through the goop to catch the boresnake (or whatever) pull the pullcord through, and store the gun with the cord hanging out of the muzzle.

When ready to go, just pull the cord through the barrel, the Boresnake (or other patched device) follows, hauling out all the goop along with it, leaving a clean bore in mere moments.

Practical?

Nonsensical?

Doable?

Improvements/other suggestions?

Should I go stand in the corner again?

(Note: I have never actually tried this, so I wonder if it's practical.)

[Markbo]

Well Markbo if you don't understand after seeing Hurricane Katrina, the passage of many Unconstitutional Laws, and just an ever increasing dissatisfaction with the country, then you just cannot understand. Gun confiscations have already happened right here in the United States. Why not have some spares in case the government comes to get your guns?


Spoken like someone with neither the want nor ability to answer a simple question. I assure you that I have the mental aptitude to wrap my cognitive abilities around any idea or issue. Saying then you just cannot understand. is not only insulting, it is insipid. I can understand. But I already said that I don't and asked for some help, you boob!:scrutiny:

First, in Katrina that whole part of the country in under the exising water table. They bury the dead in New Orleans above ground. Then it was under water. Good idea to bury guns UNDER the water table and then try to retrieve them after the water table is now 10 feet deeper?

The issue of illegal confiscation has already been address by the NRA and laws have been passed by many many states clarifying the illegality of such action. The actions were undertaken by a near Socialist Mayor. Do ANY of these conditions exist where any of you guys live? I know they don't where I live.

Is this whole idea of a cache of guns just because of unconstitutional laws being passed? When has that NOT been the case in the history of this country!?!?! That is why we have the Supreme Court of the United States, to strike them down. State laws are different. How many of you live in a state that is SO socialist that you actually fear for your personal freedoms to the point you have to cache anything 'from the government'?

Do you live with the idea that 'they' may just show up tomorrow completely unannounced to take your personal belongings and infringe on your rights??? Is this breakdown of society going to happen without your knowledge that it is coming? You won't have time to do anything about it? No time to hide a couple somewhere that is about 99.9% easier and faster to get to? Perhaps hidden in a better, safer, drier location?

Does this not strike any of you as a little bit 1950's bomb shelter mentality???
I don't think 'they' are coming after me. I don't think 'they' are coming after my guns. If they do, there will be a problem. And they will never, ever get them all. No matter what. And I assure you they will not be buried in a septic tank.

Now... does anyone ELSE want to try and explain this to me instead of being patronizing?

[-terry]

Well I think a lot of people prefer to be patronizing. It's just more fun, right Hairless?

[AK103K]

The issue of illegal confiscation has already been address by the NRA and laws have been passed by many many states clarifying the illegality of such action.
This all can change with the stroke of the presidents pen, and even congress cant even do anything about it for the EO's waiting period, even if they had the balls to.

That is why we have the Supreme Court of the United States, to strike them down.
Dont count on the Supreme Court to bail us out either. They upheld the 1934 machine gun ban, and havent done anything since to make things better. I'm not placing much hope for this new round.


There are a lot of reasons to cache things, and some methods are better than others, and all of them are well known to those who seem to be the booger man. If they didnt already know about any of the methods here, they do now.

Personally, I'm of the belief that if its time to bury them, then its time to use them. If your going to need them, you probably wont have time to dig. :)

[iiibdsiil]

For the residents of NO during Katrina, it was the time to use them.

I thought they were going to be taking your guns from your cold, dead hands guys ;)

[ServiceSoon]

I thought they were going to be taking your guns from your cold, dead hands guys+1

[Jeff F]

Find someone who does underground construction or go to an underground construction supply house and get some sdr PVC pipe and glue on caps. You can get it in 3 in on up to 2ft+ diameter. Glue on the caps with a good cote of pvc cement and they will be water proof. The smaller sizes 3 or 4in can hold a lot of ammo.

[Markbo]

Yeah... nothing could possibly go wrong burying anything
http://www.funnyphotos.net.au/images/unveiling-the-1957-belvdere-in-2007-celbreating-oa.jpg

[Treo]

DW & I have given this some thought and we've come to the conclusion that we simply can't afford to buy a gun to bury, that if there was a SHTF situation, we may not even be able to. luckily in Colorado private firearms are completely unregulated that means that one could purchase a gun from a private party quite legally W/ out any record of the transaction PERIOD. The wife and I own 2 handguns that were purchased NIB from a local firearms dealer, we also have our CHP which, even if we had privately purchased the above mentioned unregulated firearms, would identify us as gun owners. but hey we're good citizens if the goverment feels that we should turn in our 2 handguns we'll be more than happy to comply.

[41magsnub]

I thought they were going to be taking your guns from your cold, dead hands guys

Maybe they are for when he comes back as a zombie and wants to be properly equipped? Didn't think of that did ya?:neener:

[RoadkingLarry]

TINFOIL Hats!

Get your fresh, hot TINFOIL Hats!

:neener::neener::neener:

[Markbo]

On the Effectiveness of Aluminium Foil Helmets: An Empirical Study
Ali Rahimi1, Ben Recht 2, Jason Taylor 2, Noah Vawter 2
17 Feb 2005
1: Electrical Engineering and Computer Science department, MIT.
2: Media Laboratory, MIT.

Results
For all helmets, we noticed a 30 db amplification at 2.6 Ghz and a 20 db amplification at 1.2 Ghz, regardless of the position of the antenna on the cranium. In addition, all helmets exhibited a marked 20 db attenuation at around 1.5 Ghz, with no significant attenuation beyond 10 db anywhere else.
Conclusion
The helmets amplify frequency bands that coincide with those allocated to the US government between 1.2 Ghz and 1.4 Ghz. According to the FCC, These bands are supposedly reserved for ''radio location'' (ie, GPS), and other communications with satellites (see, for example, [3]). The 2.6 Ghz band coincides with mobile phone technology. Though not affiliated by government, these bands are at the hands of multinational corporations.
It requires no stretch of the imagination to conclude that the current helmet craze is likely to have been propagated by the Government, possibly with the involvement of the FCC. We hope this report will encourage the paranoid community to develop improved helmet designs to avoid falling prey to these shortcomings.

See?!?!? "They" want you to wear them!! :uhoh:



Read more here:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

[El Tejon]

If you want to question the motivation/rationale for burying guns, then please start your own thread.

This is a "how to/ what to be aware of" thread.

[Markbo]

Yes SIR!

Unsubscribe link will be clicked on immediately SIR!!!!

[El Tejon]

Alright, alright. I like to have fun too. Just trying to keep it on track.:D

[Markbo]

Actually, I am kind of curious now... living in southeast texas the soil here is called gumbo... it is a heavy clay like mix and it remains wet... it is always wet underground here.

I am sure in drier climes moisture would not be an issue, but now I am curious just how water tight you could make something like this over the long term, like a decade or more.

[RoadkingLarry]

Instead of underground burial how about building it in to an interior wall of the house? electrical wiring/conduits and/or plumbing could be used to hide any electromagnetic signature. false floors, under the insulation in the attic. Big decorative hearth? make a hidey hole inside, just got chip out one stone or a couple of bricks for access

[El Tejon]

Roadking, not a darn thing wrong with that idea, in fact, excellent idea, but I wanted guns hidden off my domicile.

Markbo, I had a similar problem here. Nice thick topsoil, but lots of river clay underneath and it does rain just a tad here in the Midwest.:D

To combat the threat of water, I went multiple layers of plastic.

[Markbo]

Like Russian nesting dolls..

[XDKingslayer]

I am a Marine. I still plan on burying guns and cacheing ammo.

You can bet those victims of Katrina who had their weapons confiscated wished they had a stash somewhere. And they lived.... yet again disproving the "if its time to bury guns its time to dig them up" philosophy.

So....just how would the victims of Katrina dig up said weapons?

Scuba gear?

[cyclist]

I thought it was 2008 now, not 1999.

Google up Y2K and gun and you'll get lots and lots of ideas.

[El Tejon]

Markbo, yes, excellent analogy.

[BlackBearME]

You can bet those victims of Katrina who had their weapons confiscated wished they had a stash somewhere. And they lived.... yet again disproving the "if its time to bury guns its time to dig them up" philosophy.
So....just how would the victims of Katrina dig up said weapons?

Scuba gear?

Note the "somewhere" which does not necessarily mean "right in their backyard." Maybe their caches firearms wouldn't have been accessible to them immediately. Nevertheless, my understanding is that many people who were the victims of confiscation have still not received their guns back. What if all their guns were taken? I bet many of the people whose arms were confiscated had the same "from my cold dead hands" mentality - at least one must have - but I haven't heard of any stories where someone actively resisted. I mean, realy, 5 JBTs locked and loaded demanding your guns...do you really want to go down shooting? I prefer to pick my battles, and that wouldn't be one of them.

Aside from the more paranoid reasons to cache guns, there are more practical ones. Confiscation, like mentioned above. Also, how about loss? This is a litle extreme, but what if you live in a city and are the subject of a terrorist act or a misguided missile? For one reason or another your house/building is vaporized, or at least on fire. What do you have to protect yourself now? I'm a firm believer in not putting all my eggs in one basket.

El T, I must admit I have litle to contribute to this thread, but would like to thank you for its inception. I have been considering this very idea and have gained valuable insight.

On second thought, now that I think about it, I do have something to mention, my dad once talked about with me. If you're storing ammo in ammo cans, to add a little level of waterproofing you can use silicone gasket maker. Just a thought.

[Kerf]

Anyone else notice the difference in perception (i.e. paranoia) regarding gun confiscation between south Texas and Cook County, Illinois?

The guy in Texas wakes up, walks outside, and fires off a few rounds to let his neighbors know he’s up and about, and it’s okay to drop by for a visit.

The guy in Cook County wakes up, reads the headlines in the paper, and the politicians are trying to pass a law banning his auto-loading shotgun/high power rifle, having already banned handgun possession. Even though they all have concealed carry permits and want to be on the Jerry Springer show.

So, the guy in Indiana is probably thinking:

A.) Presidential Election coming up shortly;. A lot of Republicans (RINOs) giving up their seats in the House and Senate; the long coattail effect of whoever wins. not good

B.) Even though I’m an Alpha Wolf, there are 10,000,000 or so sheep within a few hours drive of my location. (Gary Larson, where are you when we need you?)

C.) The neo-terrorists have staged a symbolic “major event” shortly after the election of every new president since Jimmy Carter. (They don’t care about the 4th of July, Christmas, or the Super Bowl; they make their own dates to be remembered in history.)

D.) So, you can flip a coin on Chicago; it’s Pascal’s Wager all over again, like the L.A. riots, Katrina, etc,….

So, no way am I going to second-guess the guy in Indiana analyzing his situation and being prepared. I’ll bet he was a Boy Scout. So was I.

Kerf

[ColinthePilot]

I've been thinking about this for a while. I'm going to use many of the methods (behind dry wall, buried in the yard, etc) to squirrel away guns wherever i can think of. again, the idea of putting my eggs in separate baskets. Plus, eventually, i'm going to buy a big chunk of land somewhere nice and dry, bury a bunch of stuff and mark it with a GPS so i know where it is. then I'll scatter a bunch of "chaff" around the entire property so the metal detectors really are going off every second. then there will be some in the house, some in the truck, just about everywhere. most easily accessible and a few obvious decoys. hopefully, the black helos won't come around for a while though, cuz i'm not going to have this property for a while.

[AK103K]

bury a bunch of stuff and mark it with a GPS so i know where it is.
Unless you have survey grade GPS, I would advise against this. The hand helds commonly used are a lot better these days, especially since the selective availability has been removed, but they still wander a good bit. If they decide to reinstate the SA, what do you do then?

If your going to do it, triangulate where you put it with measurements to landmarks in the general area, so you can find it no matter what.

[macmuffy]

Better take good sightings and trianglation measurments.

Prior to starting the collection process they will have turned off the GPS system.

Now what you gonna do?

(I hear the stomp of the jackboots now)




.

[Mannix]

While having cheap insurance isn't a bad idea, mentioning your plans on a public forum is :uhoh:.

[ctdonath]

The British are coming.
Do ANY of these conditions exist where any of you guys live?
Actually, Boston PD is currently starting up door-to-door search-and-confiscate operations ... not particularly unlike what happened some 225 years ago.

[Jorg]

Actually, Boston PD is currently starting up door-to-door search-and-confiscate operations ... not particularly unlike what happened some 225 years ago

Unless you consider that the Boston PD search is voluntary, not door-to-door, and one must call in to ask them to search giving consent and signing a waiver, then it is completely unlike what happened 225 years ago.

[EricTheBarbarian]

you dont need GPS, be somewhat familiar with the area, mark it with a trash pile or a pile of busted up cinder blocks for example. dont forget to scatter a good amount of old nails, bolts, etc to throw off the metal detectors.

[ctdonath]

That's the Nth variation I've heard on what's happening in Boston. Pardon me while I look for a salt-shaker.

FWIW: DC is also planning comparable search-and-confiscate operations, and it looks like they're trying to actually grab as many as they can before June.

It was only what, 2 years ago that Katrina happened - and nobody expected door-to-door searches there.

The whole point of this exercise is you don't know when (yes, or if) it's going to happen, and should the time come you just won't have time to deal with it. It's called advanced preparation for emergencies.

[Ed Ames]

Argon -- it's a gas. An innert gas. An innert gas with a higher density than air. It is wood safe (used by museums to store ancient documents), non-toxic (used as the gas filler in (expensive) drug bottles to enhance storage life), metal safe (doesn't form nasty compounds w/ any common materials), and cheap. Any welding gas company can provide you with a bottle of the stuff. Ideally you should make sure it is pure argon (some is pre-mixed with CO2 for certain types of welding) but that's not a huge issue.

A simple way to use argon would be to cap one end of a PVC pipe that was a foot or so longer tha all the stuff you want to store in it, Stand the pipe upright and fill with ammo, rifle, and whatever else you want. Now trickle the argon gas into the pipe... you trickle it in slowly and it sinks to the bottom of the pipe and displaces the oxygen, nitrogen, et cetera to the top of the pipe. Once the argon starts overflowing cap the pipe. Of course that will trap a little bit of oxygen in the container... but the oxygen will rise to the top and float above the argon. That's why you have the extra room at the top... to give a safety margin in case more oxygen than expected is in the pipe.

If your seals are sound and trustworthy that is all the protection they will need... no special greases or anything else would be required. If you aren't sure the seals will hold you may want to put the guns (at least) in grease as well. I'd probably not bother with grease myself but I'd test the seals fairly well.

Of course you could get fancier with the containers... a nice welded stainless steel container with fittings for the argon (to allow re-purging) and a re-sealable hatch would be really sweet... but PVC would be good enough.

If using PVC the double-tube idea (with a sleeve burried in the ground and a capped tube slid into the sleeve) seems like a VERY good idea.

[El Tejon]

ed, argon, yes! My brother had access to argon and it came in very handy and it was surprisingly easier to fill the tubes. We greased the guns as well just to be careful.

Even though we did tube inside tube, I just hope the seals hold on both tubes. I guess I'll find out when we dig the "test tube" up in a few years.:D

[Officers'Wife]

Hmmm, I wonder if one of the legal types would consider this 'premediation' to break an as of yet unpassed law. An even more interesting question would the posters on this thread be quilty of conspiricy to violate federal code even though the code being broken has not been passed and may never be passed...

(The fact I would have to take questions like this seriously is the main reason I never went to law school)

Selena

[Officers'Wife]

Oh for pity's sake. If you own the land you are hiding the package...

Build a lovely fence around the property then build cement corner posts with lots of re-rod and scrap iron... as well as your package. Poured right and the post would take an excavator to dig it up and a sledge hammer to break it open. No to mention the cement would tend to shed water and keep oxygen away from the center.

I've always been told if you are going to hide something, hide it in plain sight.

Selena

[MinnMooney]

Sorry guys. I just read through most of these replies and saw CACHE spelled wrong once too often. :what: I was ready to buy a huge double PVC pipe and seal my favorite country western's picture in it, bury it in the backyard and call it buried cash.:barf:

[Sungun09]

My $.02 worth

I wouldn't bury anything on my property. In the Chicago area, they brought in bulldozers when looking for something on some property, (they never found what they were looking for I might add), but they tore the hell out of the land.

[everallm]

Quick point do NOT use PVC piping as seems to be the favourite flavour. It has a nasty habit over time of out gassing trace amount of chlorine into your nice airtight tube, use Polythene tubing.

If you want to "hide in plain sight" you could use a variant on the casket method.

Get one they use to ship bodies internationally, they are lead lined, air and water tight and built like a brick.

No one likes to disturb a grave.........the zombies may get 'em...8-)

[Markbo]

Sorry guys. I just read through most of these replies and saw CACHE spelled wrong once too often. I was ready to buy a huge double PVC pipe and seal my favorite country western's picture in it, bury it in the backyard and call it buried cash.

Now that's funny stuff right there, I don't care who ya are!

Correct everyone's spelling and then say "and seal my favorite country western's picture in it"

My favorite country western??? What in the HELL does that mean? :neener:

[takhtakaal]

Or in a toilet tank and call it "Johnny Cash."

[dtown240]

http://www.ssrsi.org/Onsite/cache.htm

this site has enough more information about caching than you could possibly believe. Enjoy.

[lbmii]

The idea of using dry ice seems pretty good but then I started thinking about it. When CO2 is in contact with water it will cause the water to become acidic. Carbonic acid I believe is the name. So if you have some moisture in the container it will acidify in the CO2 environment. I suspect that what might happen is that when you place the cold dry ice in the upright tube that moisture in the air will condense inside the tube and on any items in the tube. Then you seal up the CO2 filled tube with moisture all over everything and the moisture will turn to acid.

I know that lead will oxidize so when a sufficient amount of lead is in an enclosed space this oxidation of lead will use up the O2 in the enclosed space. Perhaps some lead sheeting or even better a bunch of uncoated lead shot placed in the sealed tube would be a good idea.

Also one should make sure that the tube is denser than wet soil. Understand that it must be not be just as dense as water. It must have a density greater than the wet (or one day wet) soil that it is in. Otherwise it will float.

One thought is to place “well sealed disassembled items” suspended with a thin line inside the vent tube of your drain plumbing that you access on your roof. You could get to these “items” quickly and easily. There are also hollow voids in your home such as the space above slanted ceilings (such as above stairways) that can be accessed from within your attic. Items can be suspended inside the void from above with a line attached to the ceiling joists above the void.

[BigBadJohn]

I posted this on the other thread.>

I agree with the sealed pvc, but painted brown and attached to the top of a very tall tree. No one ever looks up!;)

[Titan6]

I agree with the sealed pvc, but painted brown and attached to the top of a very tall tree. No one ever looks up!

Bad storage spot for an ice storm, huricane or a lot of other natural and unnatural disasters.

[retgarr]

The punk pulled a Glock 7! Do you know what that is? He buried it years before and it didn't even rust!

[Sam Adams]

BTTT for more comments.