Gun Culture Demographics - Who Are We?


March 17, 2007, 01:13 PM
Overall, compared with the rest of the world, who are we? Do we fit in with the media stereotypes? The guy wearing the wifebeater sitting in front of the mobile home on the seat from a 1983 transcamaro, swilling a PBR and waving gap-toothed at passersby at 11:00 am... The mohawked nutjob packing a half-dozen guns, looking for a target... Or are we the guy next door?

Who are you?

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March 17, 2007, 01:20 PM
The asian guy next door that lives in a split level, commutes in a Toyota, and works 50 hours a week. I don't think I'd make good media material ;) Working on and off for a BS in EE.

March 17, 2007, 01:25 PM
just a good ole boy finishing up high school. FSU next yr!!

March 17, 2007, 01:30 PM
Married, one car, one kiddo, Bachelor's Degree plus, job that pays just enough to keep me broke, not enough time to do the things I enjoy. but I'm workin' on it.;)

March 17, 2007, 01:35 PM
BA, JD, one wife, two kids, three cars

March 17, 2007, 01:38 PM
What is your education level?
Overall, compared with the rest of the world, who are we? Do we fit in with the media stereotypes? The guy wearing the wifebeater sitting in front of the mobile home on the seat from a 1983 transcamaro, swilling a PBR and waving gap-toothed at passersby at 11:00 am... The mohawked nutjob packing a half-dozen guns, looking for a target... Or are we the guy next door?
What does education level have to do with any of those stereotypes? Or anything related to guns, self defense or the 2nd amendment? (unless you're looking for a lawyer)

Lots of well educated people are complete wackos. Believe me, I work in higher ed. I see unbalanced people all the time. Drug addicts often go into pharmacy fields. People with serious emotional problems often go into psychology and therapy fields (or politics apparently). There are no SAT or midterm questions that test your mental or emotional health. I've seen people with PHDs and masters degrees completely fall apart emotionally under the slightest pressure.

In fact some of the most level and 'together' people I've ever met are folks with limited education.

March 17, 2007, 01:40 PM
So far I have a B.S. in Biology and am working on a Masters. My thesis work involves shrimp growth rates in Northern Gulf of Mexico.


March 17, 2007, 01:44 PM
My BA was from Eastern Kentucky University (sob... out in the first round...), and was in Mass Comm/Public Relations.

March 17, 2007, 02:04 PM
Stauble - I went to high school in Ft. Liqordale.... whereabouts?

Two things about the survey that could/should be changed if possible.

Doctoral is a bit ambiguous - what kind of Dr. is important. PhD or M.D./D.O. - or even JD (although there is no "Dr." applied to your name with a JD).

JD also is not totally included as Masters usually is 2 years, whereas JD is 3, etc.

Just some thoughts about the survey - no biggies though.

March 17, 2007, 02:53 PM
Yep, MBA, Gun Nut, mentally unstable, survivalist, food hording, ammo making suburbanite whack job right here!


March 17, 2007, 02:54 PM
The last time this poll was posted, Bachelor's Degree was the majority.

March 17, 2007, 03:00 PM
AS, soon to have BS, and will have a MS within 3 years, I hope.

March 17, 2007, 03:00 PM
I'd probably rank JD with the masters, and MD with a doctorate...

Old Fuff
March 17, 2007, 03:06 PM

I agree that education, in and of itself, doesn't have "anything too do with it." But dispelling some of the media and left-wing "Progressive’s" myths and stereotypes of gun owners being illiterate and retarded wouldn't hurt.

March 17, 2007, 03:08 PM
early-mid 20s, still pursuing a BA (started in poli-sci/pre-law, moved to English, moved to fine arts, dabbled with psych, now having to finally pick between English, fine arts and history).

March 17, 2007, 03:09 PM
Just high school and a few community college courses. Good job, wife, no kids, 2 dogs, 2 cats. Vote republican or libertarian, like beer, and have all my teeth. Except for the wisdom's. And damn near 50 yrs old, time sure does fly. I can remember when you could buy 1911's and Mausers from the Monkey Wards cataloge for less than $25. Sure do wish I still could.

March 17, 2007, 03:13 PM
Late 20's Divorced.

BS in Mechancial Engineering from GMI (now Kettering)
Lost of "Post Grad" work done with the Navy. Some of it counts towards an MBA, some does not. I am 10 credits short of a MSME, but but they are all labs, and good luck getting 3 months off.

Live in a condo, commute to work on a Motorcycle (Triumph Bonneville). Have a pickup for when its needed.

I am part of the great right wing libertarian conspiracy since I am in the Navy. Flying is not a bad gig..

March 17, 2007, 03:17 PM
Well even from this small sample, *need to get more people* it looks as if we are pretty decently educated.

March 17, 2007, 03:22 PM
B.A., M.A., J.D.
One Wife, Three Kids, Two Dogs, Three Cars
I believe in the Bill of Rights, even that embarassing Second Amendment.

March 17, 2007, 03:25 PM
24, previous homeowner transitioning within a year or so into a new home, wife & kid, 1 semester of college, been with the same company for 6+ years and currently right at 40k.

March 17, 2007, 03:29 PM
BA, wife, daughter, 2 cars, 50+hr/week suckhole job and no time to shoot.

DMK, lighten up. It's just an internet poll.

March 17, 2007, 03:35 PM
Hot dang! Lookit all them ejimacated folks!

Homeschooled here,graduated at 15, went to work building homes with my dad to save money for college. Eleven years later,still swinging a hammer. But I couldn't sit at the same office or cubicle every day. I'd rather be outside.

In fact some of the most level and 'together' people I've ever met are folks with limited education.For the most part,money buys a better college-level education and those without money, well, they don't always go to college. However when you don't have any money you learn to do a lot more on your own...and I believe you get a stronger grip on reality than someone who just buys everything and has no idea where it comes from or how the real world works.

March 17, 2007, 03:40 PM
it looks as if we are pretty decently educated.

Of course we are. Gun folk believe in facts not myth. We don't rely on using made up statistics to push our agenda. 92% of us know that 79% of Liberals make up lies and use unsupported stats that say guns R E-vil. The other 21% say guns are 'naughty' and of those people 42% also say they aren't as bad if they have a wood stock. It's all of these made up statistics that get the world in trouble.

March 17, 2007, 03:40 PM
Gun owners come from all walks of life. We all have different levels of interest in firearms. Some are in it exclusively for self defense, some are collectors, some enjoy the historic aspect, many are hunters, others like myself are concerned with the self defense aspect but not nearly so much as the enjoyment of the sport itself. I own a lot of guns and very few are self defense oriented. We're doctors, lawyers, ditch diggers, mechanics, students, parents, etc. Some are wealthy and some are poor. Most of us are caught somewhere in the middle.

I don't think you'll find any stereotype that fits the majority of us. We represent a good cross section of America, from all income levels and of all educational levels.

March 17, 2007, 03:44 PM
Just retired Boomer, transplanted from NoVA/DC to Santa Fe, BS in BA/Mktg in '70, Viet-era vet, 30+ yrs in IT as a user/mgmt, vendor, consultant; schitzo politically. Life is good.

March 17, 2007, 03:59 PM
This is a "break the Antis' stereotype" poll wrt education.

multple undergrad and some post grad education (minor problem with "authority":rolleyes: seemed to interfere with my PhD and a couple of Masters), 15 years with large infamous international company , fed gov before that, second family with wife and 1 daughter, son from first, house on lake, recycle, hybrid car, miniSUV, backpacking/whitewater background, wine/whisky/food fan, season ticket holder to theater and symphony as well as bluegrass and jazz festivals and I organize defensive firearms courses in ET

All that and 8,000 rounds of ammo on hand (conservatively).

That should mess with their heads!!!:evil:

March 17, 2007, 04:06 PM
Married, two children, B.A. in Liberal Arts (History), Army veteran, currently working as a full-time city police officer.

I do like to drink beer and I've been known to say Y'All once in awhile.:evil:

March 17, 2007, 04:06 PM
BS, M-Ed, + credits. Been going to school ALL my life. Call me "the life-long learner"!

March 17, 2007, 04:08 PM
BSc (Hons) in Archaeological Sciences here is as far as I could get though I would love to take a Masters in underwater archaeology but my money won't allow that. Also have five A Levels thrown in but they hardly count. I also find it nigh impossible to explain to US businesses the British educational system, after all how you supposed to explain when they only won't to know your GPA score when such things don't exist where I came from.

March 17, 2007, 04:21 PM
Is a very poor way of determining the "education" of an individual. I have known some titled people who couldn't pour **** out of a boot following directions printed on the bottom of the heel.

My Grandfather never went to high school, but my senior English teacher said he was one of the most educated men he had ever met. And he said it if front of the whole class! A farmer most of his life, Justice of the Peace for 25 years, and Tax Assessor for 40 years after that. He had his 70 year pin in the Masonic Lodge. His personal library rivaled (or exceeded) the public library in the nearest city. And the only reason he wasn't the Town Supervisor was that he wouldn't run. He wouldn't run because if he became Supervisor, he would have to attend County meetings 40 miles away. He never learned to drive a car (but there was none better with a team), and didn't want to be dependant on someone else to take him to the meetings.

Formal education (schooling) is no measure of intelligence. All a degree indicates is that you didn't fail. Nothing more. Today there is an absurd amount of overemphasis on degrees, as a "standard" for being competent to do a certain job. A piece of paper on your wall is a status symbol, but it proves nothing in real life.

No, I don't have a degree, but I am not jealous. I chose my path in life, at least as far as schooling. I walked away from a scholarship, to go into the Army at a time when people were still skipping to Canada to escape service. After I got out, I was too busy making a living and raising a family to go back to school, and did not use ANY GI benefits (and after 10 years, they expired anyway). The pursuit of money has never been particularly important to me. If I have enough for what I want, then I have enough.

I have spent the last 25 years working with Special Nuclear Material. I am well trained (educated) in Nuclear Safety, Industrial Safety, Chemical management, and a host of other things that 90+% of Americans neither know nor care about.

I have more than one firearm for each year I have been walking this planet, and intend to aquire as many others as strikes my fancy. I am not a "typical" gun owner. I am not a "typical" anything. I almost always fall at one end or the other of the bell curve, and that suits me just fine.

Firearms enthusiasts are found at every social, economic, and educational level. The only thing "typical" about any of us is that we enjoy owning and using firearms, and that we have a right to do so.

March 17, 2007, 05:13 PM
58 y/o, married 26 yrs (to the same woman), one son. Ex navy aviation ordnanceman, viet nam vet. Bachelor's degree, 2 associate's degrees. Work as an operating room nurse. Rekindled interest in range shooting after a long time away and loving it.

March 17, 2007, 05:27 PM
Oh god! An AO with guns.. RUN! :eek:

Just kidding. :D

March 17, 2007, 06:34 PM
Viet Nam era vet, Tech school, Fed Emp., (I’m lucky: I love my job), Married 31 years (to the same woman!!), one son, 2 real cars plus my coveted Datsun Roadster, not enough guns or ammo, along with 2 dogs, 5 cats, 5 ferrets, and 2 rats.

Nomad, 2nd
March 17, 2007, 06:39 PM
2 years higher Edumakation. (Left Ole Miss after realising I just wanted to enlist.) (Marine)

Also am an EMT.

I didn't vote b/c I couldn't vote for both.

March 17, 2007, 07:09 PM
In 2nd year of college I realized it was all BS for me. I quit college and spent the next 26 years making a decent living and having a blast as a professional drummer.
In the early 90's my wife and I started a wildlife rescue and rehabilitation facility. I now do wildlife control for a living and do lectures all over the state and the nation regarding many aspects of wildlife with an emphasis on urban wildlife issues. Never had anybody ask for a college degree. I am an eternal student ,I just don't believe that school is the way to become educated for me. Have always made a good living,raised a family,been with same wife 31 years and still having a blast.
My method has basically been:
Do what you want to do
Figure out how to make money doing it
I'm 56 years old and that method has worked so far

March 17, 2007, 07:15 PM
17 year old high school junior. I've got my '91 Toyota Celica and a job at a local grocery store. A's and B's and have a girlfriend for the spare time. Not the media's poster boy.

Green Lantern
March 17, 2007, 07:42 PM
Overall, compared with the rest of the world, who are we? Do we fit in with the media stereotypes? The guy wearing the wifebeater sitting in front of the mobile home on the seat from a 1983 transcamaro, swilling a PBR and waving gap-toothed at passersby at 11:00 am... The mohawked nutjob packing a half-dozen guns, looking for a target... Or are we the guy next door?

Who are you?

I hope this poll is just one of a series..."schooling" is just one small part of what "makes" someone. Is there some unknown rule of nature to say that a guy with a Doctorate CAN'T be wearing the wifebeater sitting in front of the mobile home on the seat from a 1983 transcamaro, swilling a PBR and waving gap-toothed at passersby at 11:00 am??? ;)

Anyhow, did some college with the idea of getting into pharmacy school. But the more I WORKED in a pharmacy at the same time, the more I realized that I liked the "risk" level of being a Pharmacy Tech a lot more than the risk level of being the PHARMACIST.

And at the time the nearest school was a good six hours away. If anything defines me it's loyalty to family - I didn't want to uproot and leave them behind for 6 years... :-/

March 17, 2007, 09:59 PM
Hey your blog and got a kick out of it. Must be hard going from beaters back to fixed wing...keep grabbing for the collective that ain't there! I was with VA-23 aboard the Oriskany (now at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico posing as a reef) and later part of a P-3 crew in VP-56 out of Pax River. Best of luck to you and thanks for your service.

March 17, 2007, 10:58 PM
I'm middle-aged, well educated, fairly well off and have all my teeth.

March 18, 2007, 02:33 AM
I'm a libertarian/conservative Orthodox Jew with a bachelors degree from UC Berkeley. I love busting stereotypes :neener:

March 18, 2007, 02:48 AM
2 year degree for me. Wife has masters degree & liberal democrat. 2 kids and drive toyotas. :scrutiny:

March 18, 2007, 02:54 AM
I made pretty much the same poll a while back, with around 600 votes. You can find it quickly with a search. And just to contribute, BS in microbiology will be finished in 6 weeks, then a masters pa program starts in fall.

Ala Dan
March 18, 2007, 05:33 AM
Some college, now in work force~! ;)

March 18, 2007, 06:46 AM
"BS" degree :D , married, 32 yo, sometimes citizen, sometimes soldier. I think it is a good poll in that it only measures one thing. A series would be good to establish a THR gun owner demographic...formal education level would just be one small aspect of that.

Gender, income level, marital status, criminal background, military experience, training level (firearms), among others would be interesting as well.

It won't matter in the end though...once all the data is compiled (main frames whirring to life) the result will no doubt be: Caucasion male, 30-40yo, GED, resident south of the Mason-Dixon line, poor dental history and collector of beer cans and auto part lawn ornaments.:neener:

March 18, 2007, 08:26 AM
I am 36 years old. My wife is 38. We have two daughters, 2 and 9. We both have English, B.A. degrees from Atlantic Union College in Lancaster, MA. We both taught English in China for one year and in South Korea for two years. My wife has been a homemaker for the last 9 years. I have a Master of Science in Computer Information Systems from the University of Phoenix. I've worked in IT since 1999 and am currently a Data Warehouse Architect with a large national medical company. We live in a smallish, but nicely decorated house in a very middle-class neighborhood. Several of my neighbors are police officers and school teachers. My wife drives an Acura MDX. I drive a VW Jetta 1.8T. We are Episcopalian. Our oldest daughter attends church school.

March 18, 2007, 08:50 AM
48, A.A.S. Degree in ElectroMechanics. 3 Great kids. Single and gardening. One pickup truck. 3 pistols, 2 rifles. Aspire to hog hunt this year. Served with pride as a young man in the U.S. Army. I love America. Physical limitation on right side. Texas CHL.

March 18, 2007, 11:08 AM
Masters in education, now teaching convicted juveniles in a prison in Ohio.

March 18, 2007, 11:17 AM
35, Master's Degree in Physical Therapy, work about 50hrs/week, not much time to shoot. Engaged, 12 yr old step daughter. 2 bedroom condo with not much room to safely store long guns so I don't currently own any. :banghead:

March 18, 2007, 11:24 AM
The guy wearing the wifebeater sitting in front of the mobile home on the seat from a 1983 transcamaro, swilling a PBR and waving gap-toothed at passersby at 11:00 am... The mohawked nutjob packing a half-dozen guns, looking for a target

And just how does level of education correlate to the above list?
Are you implying that if you’re educated, you can’t be any of your examples?

March 18, 2007, 11:38 AM
44AMP makes an interesting, and correct, point that sometimes education does not indicate an individuals level of education. To add to his examples, my own father is a high school drop out, but in the Navy, durring the big one, he taught himself higher level mathematics. Even today the old man can calculate steam pressure curves for triple expansion engines, or whatever that stuff is.

Also, my grandfather dropped out of elementary school but never stopped reading and learning. He was one of the wisest people I ever met, and a WWI veteran.

Lastly, I cannot tell you how many nit-wits I have met over the years with degrees. Frankly, I think that a modern college degree is an indication that somebody had the opportunity to learn, not that they actually acquired knowledge and understanding.

March 18, 2007, 11:45 AM
Journeyman tool maker,Journeyman Die maker/tryout,Graduate Auto/Truck mechanic (was certified for 5 yrs). Married 23+ yrs,2 daughters 1 grandchild.

Winter Borne
March 18, 2007, 11:50 AM
Very well said Plink

March 18, 2007, 11:55 AM
The only thing a degree proves is that a person has average intelligence and enough persistence to finish the program. It is not any kind of indication that a person has common sense or the ability to apply what they learned.

Degrees are also highly over-rated vs trades. A skilled plumber, electrician or finish carpenter can make as much or more than most people with a degree. Skills learned by working and training are no less valid than skills learned in traditional education. At the end of the day, education is a means to an end. The end is making a good living. There's more than one way to reach that end. I certainly don't feel like my Master's Degree makes me a smarter or better person than the skilled tradesmen that renovated my house and I bet they don't have the $108k in student loans that my wife and I are burdened with.

March 18, 2007, 11:57 AM
akjren, how are those shrimp doing? Fine, I hope. Also, good luck with the Masters degree. During breaks at work, I like to read martial arts magazines (I include the NRA's First Freedom in this category) and a birdwatching one...learned respect and appreciation for nature from farmer Granddad.

Married 24 years this June to the same woman, four kids, one dog, and Army vet (I rank that above the BA, which followed courtesy of the GI Bill). I try to maintain good dental gaps in my I try to hit the bullseye at the range.

March 18, 2007, 12:11 PM
BA, JD. married 24 yrs, a daughter 15 yrs old. work way too much work, in fact five hours today, and play way too litttle. But its the work that pays for everything else.

March 18, 2007, 12:19 PM
From the intro to an OpEd I wrote in the Boston Globe:

"First off, let me dispense with the perception many people might have of a person who owns fire arms or might take issue with the recently proposed and passed gun bill S-2276. I do not drive a pick up truck with a rebel flag painted on the side. I don’t go to monster truck rallys, I have all my teeth, and I don't have a bumper sticker that reads “they can take my gun when they pry it from my cold dead hand” or something to that effect on my car. I don’t own an “assault weapon” nor do I hunt. I am a 33 year old professional person who earns a good income and lives in a wealthy suburb of Boston. I graduated from a local ivy league university with a degree in the natural sciences. I am strongly pro environment, and a big believer in recycling. And, up until a few days ago I was not a member of the National Rifle Association (NRA). I had never even considered joining the NRA up until this bill, but felt forced to join an organization that represents the rights of honest gun owners which, for better or for worse, appears to be the NRA."

That was almost 10 years ago, so things have changed, like I do own an AR now, have been a member of the NRA, GOAL, etc ever since, and have even stronger views on the topic.

March 18, 2007, 12:47 PM
High school grad ,47 divorced ,2 children , republican .union carpenter for the last 25 years mostly worked outside temps from -5 * to 105* every day ( man this is getting old):) Street-wise and book dumb!!!

March 18, 2007, 12:52 PM
I'm 55, caucasian, a more or less "good ol' boy" all my life. Graduated high-school, never served in the military, took a few courses at a local Bible college. I've been known to string a few words together to make a coherent sentence, with most of the words spelled correctly when I write. I've read a few books that didn't have pictures. My wife who is a Yankee, says I have an accent. I don't think so. I'm a born-again Christian, and I vote Republican most of the time.

I've lived in Virginia all my life, (so far anyway) and have hardly ever gone out of the state. I don't own a Confederate flag and don't think I ever have. I am a Civil War buff however. I've flown on a commercial aircraft once. I've taken one real "vacation" in my life. (Not counting hunting season or fishing tournaments.) I got into shooting from hunting, but now I'm more "into" the self-defense aspects of it, in spite of the fact that I have never felt threatened by much of anything. (OK, maybe a Martian invasion, or Zombies.) I've worked for the same company for 35 years, and have almost always had some kind of part time job.

March 18, 2007, 01:02 PM
Firearm owners come from all walks of life and all IQ levels. How much education you have does not necessarily reflect your IQ or experience. I started out with firearms for hunting and general shooting (target, plinking etc.) and my historical firearm purchases reflect that. Moved into the more current mainstream idea regarding self defense and carry as CCW legislation was passed. Still hunt, still shoot for recreation, and still have a serious interest in firearms both historically and recent manufacture.

March 18, 2007, 01:05 PM
Chief in the Navy. Master's Degree.

March 18, 2007, 01:07 PM
"We are the world, we are the children"...oh wait, wrong forumn:o

Gradumacated from high schoo, sum collige, got boreded, been wurkin ever sense.

I enjoy to fish, hunt, shoot, hike, mild 4x4n w/my Jeep, rookie wood working,
yard work/landscaping my place, BBQing a good piece of meat, having get togethers with our friends. I love my wife and daughter. I love my family. I except my job. I love my country (It's original intent) and can't stand socialists....and have to enjoy all of this is So-Cal.

I buy guns for hunting, shooting and defense of life and liberty.

March 18, 2007, 01:30 PM
BA in history, half of a Master's in education, considering a JD.

March 18, 2007, 01:52 PM
40 year old Native American with 4 children (my two and my wife's two), 3 grandchildren, and an ex-wife (we get along now).

I've a B.S. in Computer Science, am currently employed as a Test and Systems Engineer, and am working towards and M.S. in Systems Engineering. I really don't want to go through the hassle of a Master's program, but the higher paying, managerial positions here in Huntsville, AL. almost require the advanced sheep skin.

March 18, 2007, 02:12 PM
I'd probably rank JD with the masters, and MD with a doctorate...

J.D. stands for Juris Doctor which makes it a doctorate degree.

March 18, 2007, 02:20 PM

March 18, 2007, 02:22 PM
J.D. was the first officially recorded use of the word "Doctor" in a graduate Master Degree, per the President of Wake Forest Law School (1990) at graduation ceremony.

There is a Doctor of Law, which is a doctoral degree. However, the J.D., is a Masters degree.


March 18, 2007, 02:27 PM
After a few years work experience, it just doesn't make that much difference (to me any way).
Just a word to the younger folks: After your kids are educated, grown, and gone, you will be simply astounded how much money you have. More for retirement, travel,....and toys.

March 18, 2007, 02:33 PM
looks pretty spread out to me

March 18, 2007, 02:38 PM
Doctor of Law, Doctor of Jurisprudence, and Juris Doctor are all the same thing and are all abriviated to J.D. There is a Master's of Legal Studies which is not the same thing. There is also the S.J.D. which is Doctor of Juridical Science. The LL. D. which is Doctor of Laws is an honorary degree in the U.S. If you want further nit-picking, the J.D. and M.D. are professional degrees and should therefor not be compared to academic/research degrees.

So take your pick; if the M.D. is a Doctorate degree, so is the J.D. The use of the title "Doctor" is used to indicate someone who has great knowledge in their field.

Bottom line is that the J.D. is a Doctorate degree, just not the same as a Ph.D. since the former is a professional degree and the latter is a research based academic degree.

March 18, 2007, 02:44 PM
I agree with those that say a degree isn't a measure of intellect. Unfortunately, in this world, the bosses look at the letters after a man's (or woman's) name instead of the man himself and make a judgement as to whether that person is 'right for the job'. The smartest man I ever met left school after the 6th grade to help support his family. He wasn't well schooled but he was well read and had an unbelievably sharp mind. Others I have met have post doctoral degrees and couldn't find their butts if they had their hands in their back pockets and a map!

March 18, 2007, 03:35 PM
I ruin the demos.

38 year old female, BA plus some, single parent, work too much, play too hard.

I think we go too far to distance ourselves from the "good old boys" though..the last thing gun owners need is more division..actually, I think the bigger problem is that while the Nascar watching good old boys like to shoot, they don't get involved too much. There's nothing to be ashamed of in not having an advanced degree or firearms worth thousands of dollars..but we act sometimes as if there is.

There's a big difference between gun owner demographics and gun board demographics.

March 18, 2007, 04:32 PM
Little more on JD

In the common law tradition in the United States and Britain, law originally was learned by apprenticeship. Someone from a family seeking a profession would apprentice with a local lawyer. After several years, the lawyer would file a motion with a local court for admission of the apprentice to the bar and the court would enter an order admitting the apprentice as an attorney.

After the concept of law as an elite profession collapsed during the era of Andrew Jackson,[6] a typical law student would usually attend a short undergraduate program – usually of two years or less in length – which culminated in a Bachelor of Laws (LL.B) degree. Most lawyers then underwent a brief oral examination in the chambers of a local judge, and became members of the bar.

South African universities previously presented a post-graduate L.L.B. degree, admission for which a first degree was required. The L.L.B. degree was required for a calling to the Bar as an Advocate. The post-graduate L.L.B. was replaced with a four year undergraduate L.L.B. in 1998 and the B.Proc- and B. Iuris degrees were abolished.

The creation of the modern J.D. program is largely credited to Christopher Columbus Langdell, who served as dean of Harvard Law School from 1870 to 1895. Langdell dedicated his life to reforming legal education in the United States; the historian Robert Stevens wrote that "it was Langdell's goal to turn the legal profession into a university educated one — and not at the undergraduate level, but through a three-year post baccalaureate degree."[7] He was generally successful in remaking most American law schools in Harvard's mold, since they often drew their faculty from Harvard. First, Harvard extended its LL.B. program from 18 months to two years in 1871, and then to three years in 1899. Then, in 1896, Harvard was the first law school to officially require an undergraduate degree as a prerequisite to admission (although the rule was not strictly enforced until 1909). By 1921, the same rule had been adopted by the law schools at Columbia, Pennsylvania, Case Western Reserve, Stanford, and Yale. Still, although the entry-level law program was revamped as a graduate program, the degree conferred continued to be called an LL.B.

However, upon its opening in 1902, the University of Chicago chose to award the J.D. rather than the Bachelor of Laws. Some schools started conferring the J.D. as a Latin honor for students with high grades. Eventually, the disparate treatment prompted schools to abandon the distinction and call all degrees conferred a doctorate. Yale Law School was the last to rename the degree - it conferred the LL.B. until 1971

Art Eatman
March 18, 2007, 04:58 PM
Got to be a registered professional engineer in Texas after taking a bachelor's in mechanical engineering. Now retired.


March 18, 2007, 07:26 PM
I think THR may be too narrow a cross section of gun owners to get a representative picture. Maybe if you were looking at a cross section of internet savy gun owners who like to discuss issues in a civil manner, then THR would be a representation.

FWIW, I have a useless Master's degree, and an ADoN in nursing. My real education came from the US Navy. I abandoned my Master's degree, got educated about real life in the Navy, got a nursing degree, and went to work. If I go back to school, it will be in law.

March 18, 2007, 08:17 PM
Then there's OD and DO...I think.

March 18, 2007, 08:33 PM
In the middle of my BS, will probably go to graduate school. Still undecided about majoring in psychology or environmental science. Is just me, or does anybody else suffer from acute heart failure when they look at tuition costs:eek: I know, in theory, degrees pay for themselves many times over, but student loans are a real moral killer.

Many of my family members are also gun owners, and most of them have undergraduate and/or graduate degrees. The anti's stereotype about the gun culture is complete nonsense.

Kali Endgame
March 18, 2007, 09:02 PM
I have about 90 units/credits, am single(hopefuly forever), read a lot, like classical music, hate racism, believe in equality, and drive a foreign car.

There are dirt bags in all walks of life no matter the education level.

March 18, 2007, 09:59 PM
Hey Elza, is your Datsun a 1500, 1600, or 2000? I bought my 2000 when I was 15 and tinkered with it until I sold it at 19. It was my automotive repair education car. Lots of education. Still remember the serial number, oddly.

I'm 23, my wife is working on her PhD in psychology (she's one of the good guys) and I'm in my second year of medical school, with undergrad BS in Biology (mostly wildlife) and a minor in Chem.

I see many things outside of school as educational costs. "This is how much it costs to learn to reload" or "this is how much it costs to learn to fit a safety." Often there is no monetary gain in education, but you always get something in return.

March 19, 2007, 12:47 AM
BS in Physics and BS Comp Sci.

March 19, 2007, 01:08 AM
I had to choose "High School Diploma" -- or tried to, and clicked the one above it.


You don't have a category for "High School Diploma and Taught Five Years of College Classes" so I'm kinda off the grid there.

Yeah. Taught computer languages for five years at what is now called Community College of Southern Nevada.

Wait. There's more.

Another ten years working with remedial and accelerated education overseas. In a teaching/counseling/admin capacity.

They don't hand out degrees for actual teaching, do they?

* Sigh *

High School Grad. Twenty-five plus years as a software/firmware engineer.

Whatta loser.

Dr. Dickie
March 19, 2007, 07:20 AM
I think some folks are confusing intelligence with education.
Two different things.
I've met my share of Ph.D.s that I personally wouldn't trust to give correct change from a $0.05 purchase.
I've met folks that never graduated H.S. and are smart and sharp as a tack.
Just remember: Everyone is ignorant of something. Some folks are ignorant of most everything. Ignorance can be overcome. Stupidity is not having the desire to overcome ignorance.
Higher education just means you didn't have the smarts to know when to quit:neener:
Ph.D. here (first got my B.S., you know what that stands for. Then I got my Philed higher and Deeper degree--now I got enough to spread it around).
But I do drive a pickup truck, does that count?

March 19, 2007, 08:30 AM
I'm just a retired old dude who likes to reload and is still strong enough to hold my rifle up. :evil:

March 19, 2007, 02:20 PM
+1 to Barbara ("...big difference between gun owner demographics and gun board demographics.") and to Xavier ("..too narrow a cross section of gun owners to get a representative picture").

I don't find it surprising that the education level of THR members is higher than the country-wide norm. I suspect the intelligence level is also higher, but I don't know how to measure that accurately. If nothing else, we are certainly diverse.

To add my data to the file that NSA is keeping on us, after several years as a Navy electronics technician I got a BS in Chemical Engineering (overeducated, underpaid plumber). Finished my "career" with a multi-national California-based US company as the Corporate Executive Compensation Advisor (pandering to executive greed). Now retired in Kansas, just the wife and me - children all grown and scattered - old 4-Runner, newer pickup truck, compact utility tractor, '71 240Z "project car", chainsaw, bush hog, etc.. Seasons tickets to the theater and Clemson football, still like ballet and symphony, (not very good here) and I check out Xavier's blog site every day.

March 19, 2007, 03:03 PM
BS in Psychology with minor in Criminal Justice. Director of a Vocational Rehab program for adults with disabilities. Fiscally conservative/socially moderate (basically couldn't give a d@mn who wants to marry whom). Married with two kids. Wife also works in same field for same company in similar capacity.

I also have to agree with Dr. Dickie on the Piled Higher and Deeper thing. I haven't gone that route yet but may someday. The best description I've heard of post graduate education is that the further you go, you start to "know more and more about less and less until eventually you know everything about nothing".

March 19, 2007, 03:32 PM
Tech school for Industrial Electrician. 51 year old Native American and IE for Ford Motor Co for the last 13 years with 29 in. Married to the same lovely lady for over 31 years. No kids, cats instead. Own 2 F150s, an 03 Harley Davidson anniversary edition for a daily driver and a 00 Lightning which serves as a toy and source of drain on my income. (Not stock) Can't decide to retire this year or wait a while. Probably depends on how much money I spend this year. We're in love with the Caribbean and have been all over it, so I doubt retirement is within a year or so. My gun hobby has been pretty much OK for the wife, though she personally wants no part of it. Sadly, her disabilities preclude her from handling practically any gun, so my awareness to protect her is rather heightened. She's pretty much my life.

March 19, 2007, 03:46 PM
High school diploma, failed college, currently unemployed, but have a job lined up as kitchen staff at a country club over the summer.


March 19, 2007, 04:36 PM
I like ArfinGreebly's response. Just because someone doesn't have a college degree doesn't mean that he or she isn't "educated." Likewise, a Ph.D. doesn't mean the individual isn't a redneck ...

Education level is an interesting statistic, but a single item poll isn't sufficient to make or break stereo-(as in two channels)-types, which are prototypical representations of a number of complex factors.

March 19, 2007, 04:46 PM
21 year old, working as a bellman on graveyard, makes enough to keep myself buying guns that make me broke.... with some college, and working on becoming a LEO and goiing to Real Estate School.

Deer Hunter
March 19, 2007, 05:08 PM
Finishing High School in a few months. After that, I'm hitting Texas A&M University to study to become a doctor of some sorts.

March 19, 2007, 09:52 PM
Eagle Scout, associates degree, about to finish my B.A. in Criminal Justice from Eastern Washington University then on to a career in law enforcement or community corrections.

Hell, maybe I'll go on for a master's in constitutional law and get a job at the NRA or SAF in Bellevue, WA. :cool:

March 19, 2007, 10:12 PM
Long-haired bartender with an engineering degree. :cool:

March 19, 2007, 10:14 PM
Some college, didn't have time/funds to complete while working and honoring responsibilities. Presently a computer technician with 15 years experience, extremely well read (books > TV), taoist, individual anarchist, and general skeptic.

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