Yugoslavia ducks out the arms game


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cold dead hands
March 17, 2007, 06:42 PM
I was at ye olde gunshop and managed to catch the tail end of a conversation as I walked in. It seems that Yugoslavia has signed some sort of accord for the U.N. that states that they will no no longer be sending anything firearms related to the U.S. I have reason to trust that these guys are knowledgable about this because they sell lots of surplus and imports for reasonable prices. I suppose it is possible, but it seems to me that the American market is pretty large and they stand to lose a chunk of change unless they are being reimbersed somehow. So, does anybody here know about this development? If it is true are you gonna buy up stuff knowing that may be the end of it?

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wooderson
March 17, 2007, 06:55 PM
Why would the UN negotiate a voluntary restraint of trade agreement involving only Yugoslavia and the US?

Lucky
March 17, 2007, 07:04 PM
Because the hail Mary's didn't work, so they're returned to running the ball a few yards at a time? They never take a break, never give up. Why would anyone expect them to have stopped?

TexasRifleman
March 17, 2007, 07:08 PM
I was at ye olde gunshop

Seriously, any story that starts with "the gunshop guys said"........


I bet they made you a heck of a deal on some Yugos too, since you KNOW there are not gonna be any more and you better buy them NOW.

K-Romulus
March 17, 2007, 07:21 PM
IANSA has been trying to get countries to destroy surplus ordnance rather than sell to other countries or (shudder) non-governmental buyers like the US "civilian" market. http://www.iansa.org/documents/index.htm
(http://www.iansa.org/documents/index.htm)
This is why the Australian surplus 7.62 ammo has disappeared, along with a lot of other countries' imported surplus ammo.

Car Knocker
March 17, 2007, 07:23 PM
I'm on half a dozen forums and it seems a bit odd that the news on an event like this would first see the light of day in a gunshop somewhere. I have to question the quality of your source.

Husker1911
March 17, 2007, 07:31 PM
I don't believe Yugoslavia exists anymore.

cold dead hands
March 17, 2007, 07:32 PM
Seriously, what makes you think that they are trying to sham me. I have been a customer for years and have never had any problems as far as honesty policy with these guys. They are concerned because this is Arkansas, Land of HOW CHEAP CAN I GET IT? rednecks for the most part. Surplus and and inexpensive goes like mad out the door of this place. The ATF told the owner that he has the highest sales count of any gunshop in the state and I do not doubt it. It is almost always very busy and people here love their guns, me included. But, since you had to ask, I mostly collect handguns and only own a Norinco SKS and a 10/22 for rifles, though i really want a FAL or DPMS in .308 plus some lever guns. I have little interest Com-Bloc weapons, except for my Cz-52.

TexasRifleman
March 17, 2007, 07:33 PM
Seriously, what makes you think that they are trying to sham me.

Well the fact that the poster above you is correct, there IS NO SUCH COUNTRY as Yugoslavia LOL........

RevolvingCylinder
March 17, 2007, 07:39 PM
I don't believe Yugoslavia exists anymore.
You would be right. There is no Yugoslavia. How can one make a formal agreement with a non-existent entity? This individual obviously has no credibility and is probably trying to trigger panic buying or justify increases in prices.

K-Romulus
March 17, 2007, 07:44 PM
I don't know if they were talking about "Serbia" and using the term "Yugoslavia" for old times' sake. :confused:

TexasRifleman
March 17, 2007, 07:46 PM
I don't know if they were talking about "Serbia" and using the term "Yugolslavia" for old times' sake

Dunno. You seem convinced they are correct so I don't know much else to say.

I can find nothing remotely like that in any searches I've done and you'd think something like that would show up SOMEWHERE, especially in the C&R forums.

May very well turn out to be true, but you'd think it would have made the radar by now to collectors groups.

Old Fuff
March 17, 2007, 07:50 PM
C.D. Hands:

Don't conclude that anyone at the shop was trying to scam you. They may honestly believe whoever told them this. While I am pretty sure the story isn't true, I'm not equally sure the shop folks were out to cheat you.

Give it a little time and see what develops... ;)

cold dead hands
March 17, 2007, 08:04 PM
Yes, I am very aware that the entity known as Yugoslavia has desolved but that part of the world is still under control by the same folks when the U.S.S.R. existed and they are the ones doing the dealing. You do have to understand that the names of countries are not readily updated for the common folk of this area. <>so I was just trying to relay what I heard and was looking for some feedback because the gun grabbers never sleep.

xd45gaper
March 17, 2007, 08:06 PM
lol i guess i must be out of the circle. hear ive been thinking Yugoslavia has been a country this whole time! LOL btw what has this country been renamed?

TexasRifleman
March 17, 2007, 08:08 PM
It is now split between Serbia and Montenegro.

RevolvingCylinder
March 17, 2007, 08:09 PM
Art wuz here.

El Tejon
March 17, 2007, 08:11 PM
Yes, there is progress being made on having Yugoslavia (Serbia, Montenegro) to sign on. Last I read it was being discu$$ed but nothing official. Some countries have signed on (e.g., Australia and South Africa) and destroy all surplus ammo rather than ship it to the USA, others are holding out for a bigger bribe and will sign once payment is received.

Drying up the ammo market is a high priority for the antis. They hope to turn your guns into clubs.

TexasRifleman
March 17, 2007, 08:12 PM
El Tejon, can you provide documentation of this somewhere?

I'm aware of the Australia thing, but haven't seen anything involving other countries.

Titan6
March 17, 2007, 08:15 PM
Yugoslavia has been split into 9 separate republics with no central government. The seat of the old central government was located in the current republic of Serbia.

Odd that few seem to know this as the first of several wars in Europe since WW II were fought there, there have been several genocides and of course the US has deployed over 100,000 troops there in the last 15 years.

kbheiner7
March 17, 2007, 08:17 PM
Word to the wise - 97.52% of what you hear in gun shops is bunk.

El Tejon
March 17, 2007, 08:18 PM
Off I go to my back issues of SAR.:D

http://www.dfa.gov.za/foreign/Multilateral/inter/arms.htm

Titan6
March 17, 2007, 08:37 PM
More precisely:
Gun shop talk
50% Lies and Fabrications
33% Exagerations and minimalizations
10% Rumor
5% Guesses

Green Lantern
March 17, 2007, 08:37 PM
Ahem. On-topic, I only feel better because it does not seem to be "on the radar" much - not so much that the guys got their "terminology" wrong.

Yeah, IANSA preaches that the *US* exports too many weapons OUT of the country. But American gun owners have to be a giant thorn in their side (along with ALL lawful gun owners in the world)...

You don't think IANSA's above actually doing something like this just to screw us over, do you????

razorburn
March 18, 2007, 04:14 AM
I believe colddeadhands is talking about his particular location in arkansas with that statement: As a matter of fact, just about the only thing that really seems to matter is the influx of mexican nationals as far as the white folk here are concerned, so I was just trying to relay what I heard and was looking for some feedback because the gun grabbers never sleep.

I also don't see where he used the word racist anywhere.

cold dead hands
March 18, 2007, 04:36 AM
<> This post was simply laid out as a question about the validity to the assertations that the U.N. has found yet another nation to to be it's ***** in the deprivation of arms for the U.S. campaign. While we can go to Google,it doesn't mean we get the truth until too late !!!!

Geno
March 18, 2007, 07:34 AM
Okay...and back to the High Road please. Let's have a civil discussion of a topic which has merit. Many people are highly interested in these Yugo weapons. We don't need more in-fighting of allegations of (not) being racisim). Thank-you.

No_Brakes23
March 18, 2007, 07:46 AM
I dunno, Zastava Arms (http://www.zastava-arms.co.yu/) still seems to be in business. For the Yugo/Serbia thing, note that the ZA website has a .yu suffix as opposed to a serbian one. Dunno if they import, though. If so, I wonder where I could get one of these:

http://www.zastava-arms.co.yu/images/vojni/sniper/m91_2.jpg

lol, they list the M59/66 as a current production civilian weapon.

http://www.zastava-arms.co.yu/english/civilni.htm

nice

Geno
March 18, 2007, 08:23 AM
No_Brakes123:

That is a nice link! Thanks!

Doc2005

Professor K
March 18, 2007, 01:03 PM
I want someone to import the Zastava Tokarevs, those look sweet. New production Tokarev.... I always loved the design of the Tokarev.

Grayrider
March 18, 2007, 01:17 PM
I don't mean to scare everyone, but we have been hearing the same thing as well through the grapevine. The UN is trying to get countries to destroy all surplus rather than traffic it to non-nation state purchasers. Rumor has it this has something to do with the drop in availability of surplus ammo lately. No, I don't have proof other than what was a flood has slowed to a trickle--in particular from "Western" nations. Seen any good .308 lately?

:fire:

Of course if you are an Iranian sponsored terrorist needing to stock up for your G3, your nation state backers in Tehran can buy all the ammo you need...

John

1911JMB
March 18, 2007, 02:40 PM
If Grayrider said heard the same thing, all I can say is :banghead:

Which reminds me, I just ordered a grocery bag full of FAL mags from DSA. I figure whatever the case may be with the global market, now is the time to buy em cheap and stack em deep. And reload, because the only good .308 deals I have seen lately are components at Cabela's. I'll be damned if I'm gonna pay 80+ dollars for a SA battle pack.

Prices will only go up, and the laws aren't about to start moving back towards our favor. :cuss:

Green Lantern
March 18, 2007, 02:42 PM
I also don't see where he used the word racist anywhere.

I never said he did...and also

How dare anyone imply that I am racist?

I also certianly didn't say or imply that the OP, cdh, was racist himself!

Right, now back to the regularly scheduled thread:

Of course if you are an Iranian sponsored terrorist needing to stock up for your G3, your nation state backers in Tehran can buy all the ammo you need...

What? This can't be! Dosen't the UN give stern "talkings-to" to people like that? :p

The more I read into this, the more the OP's fears seem justified....:(

toivo
March 18, 2007, 03:11 PM
Gun shop talk
50% Lies and Fabrications
33% Exagerations and minimalizations
10% Rumor
5% Guesses
And the remaining 2% is "Debatable."

Thin Black Line
March 18, 2007, 06:42 PM
I want someone to import the Zastava Tokarevs, those look sweet. New production Tokarev.... I always loved the design of the Tokarev.


A few of these were imported over 15 years ago, I bought a new one, shot
it a little and then sold it years later. It was well made, but had a typical
tok trigger pull on it. Wish I still had it because it would have made a nice
slim carry gun......oh well, have to settle for the fat sig :D

cold dead hands
March 18, 2007, 06:58 PM
<>
Back to the topic. For those of us that have been paying attention to those who seek to disarm us, you may recall the recent U.N. summit held in this country last July. As the global economy seems to be moving away from the dollar we the U.S. citizens are losing buying power. If the payoff is big enough then other countries will not sell surplus and possibly decide to not sell new products (gun stuff) either. Not to mention that our own .gov has given the favored nation trading status to whom ever happens to kissing butt (tranlated as bribes) the best.

I realized this is an over simplification, but sometimes that is what it takes to make point.

Thin Black Line
March 18, 2007, 07:08 PM
If the payoff is big enough then other countries will not sell surplus and possibly decide to not sell new products (gun stuff) either.

I imagine the fractured states from the FRY would like to get some "reconstruction"
money from the international community.......they got served the stick and now
they want the carrot.

No_Brakes23
March 19, 2007, 04:32 AM
For those of us that have been paying attention to those who seek to disarm us, you may recall the recent U.N. summit held in this country last July. Are you talking about the imaginary 4th of July summit? Or did they actually meet in July on a day when they were open?:rolleyes:

Titan6
March 19, 2007, 09:54 AM
Probably one of the world's least effective international organizations. Impacts on my daily life are somewhere between zero and negligible. When they are not frozen in deadlock over some trivial issue they are issuing unenforceable edicts that are either already policy or if not widely ignored.

All the one world government conspiracy theroy revolves around them and blue helmeted UN troops coming ashore here in the US. I have never seen a standing international UN Army but I don't think that they want to start off by having the snot kicked out of them by the Coast Guard and the NY National Guard, which is more than likely. And don't tell me the National Guard is in Iraq because less than 25% are over there.

In any case the truth is that any country in the world that can make a product and ship it here and get it past customs at home and here in exchange for dollars will do so. And the UN can't do a thing about it. The governments of the nations of the world can choose not to and if they don't want to ship us guns than so be it.

It isn't like we have a lack of choices for quality firearms made right here in this country. In fact all but three of my guns are made right here in the US and are all excellent. So far as ammo being in short supply and expensive there are a multitude of reaons for that and they have little to do with the UN and a lot to do with supply and demand in the metals market.

Thin Black Line
March 19, 2007, 10:37 AM
All the one world government conspiracy theroy revolves around them and blue helmeted UN troops coming ashore here in the US.

Absolutely not necessary --the takeover of a nation, large or small, can usually
be accomplished by money alone. It's just a matter of how much and what
the people will accept. The average Serb was far more nationalistic than
most people in the world and it took a long internal civil war to break them
down to the point where they had to accept international money to survive
and rebuild.

S.P.E.C.T.R.E.
March 19, 2007, 11:36 AM
All I can say is that the dealer price on Yugo SKS's has remained rock solid for the past 2 years. If SOG or Century thought that the supply was about to dry up, they'd jack the prices.

Free market prices are a great indicator of political policy.

Thin Black Line
March 19, 2007, 12:08 PM
Just a thought, but who/where in Europe is releasing the yugo SKSs and yugo
parts kits that we're currently importing?

Titan6
March 19, 2007, 12:55 PM
'Absolutely not necessary --the takeover of a nation, large or small, can usually be accomplished by money alone. It's just a matter of how much and what the people will accept. The average Serb was far more nationalistic than most people in the world and it took a long internal civil war to break them
down to the point where they had to accept international money to survive and rebuild.'

Absolutely true. And where does the UN get most of it's financing from? Why us of course when we are not squabling over the pittance we give them. The UN in of itself has an agenda not unlike the Brady Campaign but is not a solvent or truly organized poiltical body in of itself.

The next world war is quite likely to be a nearly purely economic one. Quite telling it is when we are concerned at all about importing guns from what at is now at best a third world nation with arguably some of the worst production standards in the world (read Yugo).

Blame the Fed, Greenspan, greedy corporations and/ or corupt politicians but the facts are that we have sold nearly all our manufacturing base overseas to the lowest bidder. We have been playing the biggest borrow from Peter to pay Paul scam in the history of the world. Sooner or later Peter is going to want his $10,000,000,000,000. When the printing presses switch into high gear to pay him we will know what a true inflation induced depression looks like. How about $100 for a 20 round box of .45 ACP? Or $1000 for an SKS? Sooner or later the other shoe will drop. And when it does we will be the ones left holding the bag for the selfish irresponsible baby boomers that have bankrupted our country.

Ratzinger_p38
March 19, 2007, 01:48 PM
I'll second that thought on the ammunition. Ive had to horde what .308 I have left (local gun shop offered to buy it from me as he has NONE). My military surplus 8mm is drying up, all that is available now is the very low quality Soviet rounds (made from 1949-to about 1965) - of which 1/2 dont fire. I had some decent Turkish rounds, but I am down to maybe 15 rounds.

My little nagant revolver? I have to fire .32 long through it, as the proper ammo is next to impossible to get.

Thin Black Line
March 19, 2007, 04:24 PM
How about $100 for a 20 round box of .45 ACP? Or $1000 for an SKS? Sooner or later the other shoe will drop. And when it does we will be the ones left holding the bag for the selfish irresponsible baby boomers that have bankrupted our country.


Shades of Weimar Republic...sadly someone who reads your price forecasts
and owns a crate of SKSs probably thinks he we be a rich man when he
takes them to market in the future --he just doesn't understand it will cost
him $1,000 to fill up his gas tank before he can leave for market :p

Last week in Zimbabwe the price for a bar of soap was about $25 --that's
USD and NOT in ZWD. People in the younger generations in this country
have no idea how fast things can inflate.

Gordon Fink
March 19, 2007, 05:17 PM
They were probably talking about the UN Firearms Protocol (http://www.iansa.org/un/global-gun-treaty.htm). Much of the former Yugoslavia has ratified this agreement, but Macedonia and Bosnia have not even signed it.

~G. Fink

Thin Black Line
March 19, 2007, 05:47 PM
Good link, Gordon. I recall a campaign Croatia had almost 10 years ago
requesting weapons be turned in.

Again, this is for anyone: where did all of our imported yugo SKSs, yugo
mausers, and yugo AK parts kits come from? ;)

MD_Willington
March 19, 2007, 05:48 PM
ZASTAVA LKP 96A

Looks like a fancy Saiga rifle...

Titan6
March 19, 2007, 07:51 PM
Since you asked twice I am sure you have a point. Yugoimport is the the state owned company. The contact telephone number for the Iraqi office is 964-790-1920-484.

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