[cuchulainn]

from the Mirror

http://www.people.co.uk/homepage/news/page.cfm?objectid=13044325&method=thepeople_full&siteid=79490COPS' TERROR AS GANGSTERS GET DEADLY 'IQ' BULLETS

BRITAIN'S most ruthless gangsters are carrying guns loaded with new "super intelligent bullets" that have devastating effects.

The ultra-powerful ammo easily rips through body armour - making our cops' bullet-proof vests useless.

But the slugs are dubbed "IQ" bullets because they can RECOGNISE the density of targets on the moment of impact.

If a target is hard the alloy bullet will keep its shape and weight for super efficient penetration. If it is soft the slug will break into fragments creating separate wounds.

Police throughout Britain have been warned that gangsters, including Yardies and Eastern European mafioso, are arming themselves with the IQ bullets.

And a spokesman admitted: "This is a real worry and could cause untold problems."

New figures show gun crime has almost doubled in the past six years - with 60 firearm offences a day

[dinosaur]

Why they must have mini computers in them!:rolleyes: Each one would probably cost as much as a Barrett. :what: Who writes this stuff anyway? :barf:

Simple solution, ban the guns. Oh, wait.....:neener:

[Pilgrim]

Looks like someone has been snookered by the deadly "Black Rhino" ammunition.

The Black Rhino hoax was started not long after Winchester withdrew the Black Talon line. It was supposed to do the same thing this IQ ammo does. All the leftist politicos had their underwear in an uproar to ban it even before it was available for sale.

Pilgrim

[skyder]

This just confirms what I have long suspected.
Bullets have a higher intelligence level than the hoplophobes who write about them. Does this surprise anyone here?

[keithernTN]

New figures show gun crime has almost doubled in the past six years - with 60 firearm offences a day


This line says it all about banning firearms.

[Tamara]

If only Aguila knew how successful their marketing hype would be.

"Super intelligent bullets", my butt. :rolleyes:

[Mute]

But the slugs are dubbed "IQ" bullets because they can RECOGNISE the density of targets on the moment of impact.

Wow! Sentient bullets? Does the manufacturer know they've created a new life form? Unbelievable. :rolleyes:

[geekWithA.45]

What are the ethics of using sentient ammunition, presuming it is destroyed upon deployment?

[cuchulainn]

I don't know. Ask People for the Ethical Treatment of Ammo

[jmbg29]

<crackle>Earth to Captain James Tiberius Kirk...Earth to Captain James Tiberius Kirk...come in Captain! New life form for you to seek out has been discovered...Do you copy? Over!</crackle>


Beam me up Scotty!


:cuss: fruitcakes! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Silver Bullet]

Ask People for the Ethical Treatment of Ammo:D


This is impossible. How can there be any guns in Britain if they were banned ? :rolleyes:

[LawDog]

Last week I saw a Calibre Press e-mail alert concerning the Aguila 117 grain .45 ACP ammunition.

The alert stated that the super-light/super-fast 117 grain ammo would penetrate body armour.

Didn't say which threat level the ammunition went through, and it was specific concerning the 117 grain/.45 ACP stuff only.

I'm willing to bet that the 117 grain .45 ammunition doesn't penetrate nearly as much as a .30-30, 12-gauge slug, .308, .30-06, or .223.

*shrug*

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" -- William Shakespeare

LawDog

[Correia]

Lawdog, that line from MacBeth is probably one of my favorite quotes of all time. Sums up these idiot reporters nicely.

[JDSlack]

I just sent this to a friend of mine, who is a cop Special Weapons Team member and firearms instructor, in Bristol (Avon and Somerset Constabulary). When I get his take on it, I'll post the info.

[Standing Wolf]

New figures show gun crime has almost doubled in the past six years - with 60 firearm offences a day.

Rarely does a day pass when I fail to feel grateful to our forefathers for having rebelled against the English and founded a republic.

The British have no one to blame but themselves: they voted socialist time after time, and now have to live in yet another socialist hell hole.

[Double Naught Spy]

I have some of the IQ ammo in .45 acp and an old piece of Level IIIA armor. Next time out to the range, I will put a couple of rounds into it with the IQ ammo and let y'all know how it turns out.

What is so amazing about the article is that IQ ammo is actually a poor penetrator. While it does break apart and create 3-4 individual wound channels, they are all fairly short.

The IQ ammo does make a really cool and large fireball when shot out of a short barreled 1911 at night, however.

So if the IQ ammo is super intelligent, what ammo is considered highly intelligent, regular intelligent, and a little slow? I already know the lowest category is dum-dum.

I love it. The ammo is considered intelligent because it recognizes the hardness of what it is striking. It does no such thing. It may react differently in hard or soft media, but that is all physics and not intelligence. The biological equivalent would be that the round instinctively reacts, but that isn't true either since it isn't biological.

[cuchulainn]

I already know the lowest category is dum-dum. I looked for, but couldn't find, a picture of the talking dum-dum bullets from Who Framed Roger Rabbit. "YeeeeeeeeHAH!"

[mohican]

Does this ammunition make the determination before or after it is fired?

How does one put a determinator in a bullet?

[AJ Dual]

How does one put a determinator in a bullet?

It's possible, but by the time you find one that would fit de terminator, it's more correctly considered a shell.

And if you fired it with him in it, Maria Shriver would be very upset. :p

[DadOfThree]

:what: :what: :what: :what: :what: :what: :what:
What if New Jersey decides to require that the IQ bullets must be used with the smart guns???
Nah, it'll never happen. The legislators of NJ wouldn't want guns to be smarter than they are. :neener:

[vmi93]

Anyone else have the urge to buy some IQ bullets and a copy of this newspaper and set up a little shrine to media stupidity? :D

[Feanaro]

I want to know what these people are smoking, I need me some of that.

[JDSlack]

OK, this is the reply my friend in England sent me. As I said earlier, he is police officer (constable), Special Weapons team member and firearms instructor. I think it says it all:
****************************************************


Jim

I remember this. It`s a complete and utter load of bollocks. I don`t know where they got it from I think it`s sensationalism and designed to increase the current hysteria.

Without being seen to be senseless, I`m having a bit of a wrye smile about the current panic on gun crime. Everyone wants to ban `gun crime`, but they`ve got no one (like competition shooters) to blame except criminals who don`t give a damn anyway. They really have no one to vent their anger at. The handgun ban made no sense at all. It was a purely political move to gain votes before a general election.

Gun crimes have gone through the roof since. In Manchester and Liverpool, not to mention London, it comes close to, if not exceeds the statistics of some major US cities. We get a couple of shootings a month in Bristol. Up to about 5 years ago, we did`nt get that in a year.

it`s virtually all Jamaican/drug related. Just thak God, you Americans avoided having an Empire

If I do hear anything elese about the `smart` bullet I`ll let you know

Regards

*****

[JDSlack]

OH Wait...I remember these bullets, I saw them in a Tom Selleck movie about rogue robots..."Runaway". They'd go around corners and under doors and stuff, never found 'em for sale tho'

[Double Naught Spy]

Aguila .45 acp tests on IIIA soft body armor -

This evening, 4 Aguila IQ .45 acp rounds were fired into an out of date (>5 years old) Level IIIA soft body armor front panel (female, size small, made by American Body Armor). Shots were fired from a distance of 6-9 feet where the panel had been propped up on a weed covered dirt berm. After each shot was fired, it was extracted from the panel before the next shot. All four shots were intentionally aimed to strike different areas of the panel. Given what I have read about ballistic protection in kevlar panels, it is possible for multiple shots in the same place to produce penetration, ball or hollowpoint, that would not otherwise penetrate. So if more than one IQ shot was in the same place and the panel failed with the latter shot(s), the ability to penetrate the armor by the IQ ammo could not be said to be due to its perceived deadly capabilities as the same results could occur with other ball or hollowpoint ammo if fired into the same place as previous rounds.

As you have figured already, none of the rounds penetrated the panel. Three had to be extracted from the kevlar weave. The forth hit the kevlar and managed to skitter sideways and was found between the kevlar and the front nylon fabric used to enclose the kevlar. As with other tests I have done with hollowpoint ammo (primarily Hydrashok), the flex of the panel as it is struck by the slug forces the slug to be at the pinnacle of the depression of the flex. What this means is that instead of opening up, the leading edge of the hollowpoint does not expand as it would in ballistic gel or soft animal tissue. Instead, being at the pinnacle, the side pressure of the kevlar ends up acting as a forcing cone and the hollow of the hollowpoint actually collapses, and then the round expands behind the opening as the side walls of the round collapse outwards.

For the Aguila IQ ammo, we had slightly different results that I have seen in Hydrashoks. In two cases, the opening collapsed in a manner that looked like somebody had simply hit the side of the round close to the leading edge with a hammer. In the other two cases, instead of being flattened sideways, the leading edges were collasped in place back toward the base of the slug, closing off most of the leading hollow, but with very little expansion.

So, not only is the IQ ammo a poor penetrater in ballistic gel, it isn't any better with body armor.

In the next few days, I will get out the digital camera and get images of these posted along with an example of a Hydrashok for comparison. What I have gathered from tests with Hydrashok, Aguila IQ, and ball ammo (all .45 acp), hollowpoint is much more easily defeated by the armor than ball ammo.

[Cosmoline]

I thought this HAD to be a joke post. But no, people really are that stupid!

I hear its tiny voice now. "Oh no, don't put me in that nasty press! It huuurts! I have rights! I demand to..." cahunck.

"Now look what you've done--I'm sealed in this cartridge! Well at least shoot me at some cops! I wanna kill cooops!"

:rolleyes:

[geekWithA.45]

PFTETSA says that:




In order to be ethical, you must treat your sentient ammunition with the respect that you would accord any other sentient being.

On the one hand, most sentient ammunition is aware of their destiny, and look forward to its fullfillment.

On the other hand, it would be arrogant to presume that this is true in all cases.

Therefore, to be truly ethical, you should obtain from your ammunition "informed consent" from each round before loading, so as to prevent problems from occuring later, and carefully preserve the paperwork in case questions arise later.

Furthermore, you also need to take into account that any individual piece of ammunition may have changed it's mind in the time interval between loading and firing.

We therefore recommend that each handgun that may fire sentient ammunition be fitted with a special device whose purpose is to interrogate the ammunition before firing, and confirm that it has in fact given it's fully informed consent immediately before firing, and that it be capable of ejecting, unfired, and round that withholds it's consent.

Because we have determined that sentient ammunition resents being expended in tests and practice, we also find it necessary that the interrogator/ejection device itself posess sentience, so that it can determine the circumstances of firing and explain it in a fair, unbiased manner to the ammunition in the chamber.

In our laboratory, we have produced prototypes of this device which we are urging legislators to make mandatory on all new handguns capable of firing sentient ammunition. It attaches easily to most autoloaders, weight 8 1/2 pounds, costs $1500, and has an amazing 67% reliability rate.

[robear]

Here's another interesting quote from John Farnum, from the 23 Feb 03 edition of his 'quips'

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/23Feb03.html

23 Feb 03

From an LEO friend in WI:

"We recently acquired some Mexican Aguila "IQ" 9mm rounds. They are a 65 gr HP. We heard that they would penetrate soft body armor, so we tested them. We shot them into fifteen-year-old, retired Second Chance vests. We used a Taurus pistol with a five-inch barrel. Range was three meters.

No penetration. Not even close. Only the first two layers were penetrated, and deformation was minimal. This old vest also stopped a dozen other brands of 9mm rounds we shot at it, including all American manufacturers."

Lesson: Don't get excited about any of the "magic bullet" rumors that periodically circulate. No one has repealed any laws of physics recently.

/John

[Double Naught Spy]

Sorry folks, but in my haste to get the images posted last evening, I posted them in another thread thinking it pertained to this one. Please check out the other thread as it has a link to a Wise County, Texas police newsletter that also says Aguila goes through body armor. Hopefully there will be something of interest if you haven't already seen the thread. The link to the thread will get to the image of the rounds I shot into body armor.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10690&highlight=aguila

Next time, I will try to remember where I posted a little more carefully.

[agricola]

it should be noted that, at least in the Met, the supplied body armour is almost certainly softer than that issued to US Police Forces. its alledgedly proof against a pistol round but (fortunately) noone has been unlucky enough to be shot and hit to find that out. firearms teams and some others get a heavier armour with trauma plates in which definately feels more protective.

the vest does protect against pointy items very well however.

[Double Naught Spy]

As I understand it and at least until fairly recently, typical issue body armor for British officers was stab resistent and not bullet resistent. The logic was that a greater risk existed from knives than bullets and vests designed to protect against both were too expensive and uncomfortably bulky. So few have the dual protective armor and some of those who have it have purchased it themselves or are part of special operations groups.

Aguila IQ ammo may penetrate stab resistent armor. Then again, regular ball ammo probably would as well and so Aguila has not special features to make it a better penetrater.