[bogie]

Guys, how hard is it to have a conversation about guns without bringing up oddball conspiracies, mall ninjaesque behavior, what load would work best for the walking undead, etc.?

Think about how we look to outsiders? And what about the conspiracy theorists who, lacking a suitable conspiracy, proceed to invent their own? Sometimes aimed directly at another facet of our culture? It's just sick.

Different factions within the NRA are wasting money and effort squabbling. Then there's the offshoots, such as JPFO, etc... They all want money, they all want effort, they all demand loyalty. And they all claim to be "better" than the next outfit. And their supports will defend 'em to the death. What do you think would happen if we somehow just managed to become organized without all that crap?

Rant off...

[denvas]

I could not agree more. However, it is a basic rule of human nature to agree to disagree. Why else do we have Lutherans, Methodist, Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist, Muslims, etc.., etc.. Ever since the tower of Babel men have agreed to disagree. To get everyone in the room to agree on a single issue is like asking everyone to agree that Auburn, or Texas or Nebraska is the best football team in the nation. Even when a team has the best record for the year not everyone agrees they should be number one. The best that we can expect is for everyone to at least try to work together for the betterment of the whole. For example when we finally got the Texas CHL law passed it took the work of many groups to accomplish this feat, the NRA, TSRA, GOA and many more. Working together and putting aside philosophical differences is the only way we can win like this.

[willyjixx]

i like my guns. who else agrees!

shooting is fun! who else agrees

a 40 is better than a 9. who else agrees?:D

[shootist2121]

Any gun is better than no gun...LOL

:scrutiny:

[spacemanspiff]

Ever since the tower of Babel men have agreed to disagree
well, maybe RATIONAL people can agree to such. but look at the efforts of all you mentioned to convert others, and make them conform to their view of reality. dont you try to change the minds of antis? open their eyes to the 'truth'? but your view of 'truth' and your interpretation of facts is just a variable in the entire equation. which is why every group wants to assimilate other groups into their folds.

the question then, should be, is this human nature? if so, what purpose does this serve? there is obvious strength in numbers, but does it go deeper than that?
why do some have 'open-minds' and others do not? why are some more ready to hear what others have to say and reserve judgement until AFTER they hear all the arguments?

example: i'll probably never convert to the Glock side, no matter how many arguments i hear about how reliable, accurate, blah blah blah, i just dont get it. doesnt mean i hate glocks or try to steer other people from buying a glock.
just like i'll never understand how people could believe in evolution, but i'll listen to their theories and consider the 'evidence' they provide. but i dont expect everyone else to become a creationist like i am.

[TallPine]

Think about how we look to outsiders? And what about the conspiracy theorists who, lacking a suitable conspiracy, proceed to invent their own?

I have a theory that the "antis" have infilitrated our ranks and are proposing these ridiculous conspiracy theories to make us look bad.

:D

[El Tejon]

Think of how we look? Amen. Tuck in your shirts, shine those shoes, stop slouching and turn your hats around!

Alright, better now.:D

[bogie]

Think of how we look? Amen. Tuck in your shirts, shine those shoes, stop slouching and turn your hats around!

EXACTLY!

A few years back, there was a pro-CCW rally here in St. Louis. One of the organizers published a "uniform" for the rally. Essentially he wanted everyone to wear a white short-sleeved dress shirt (no such thing as a short sleeved dress shirt, at least in my opinion...), a tie, dark pants and dark shoes. I think he also mentioned something about no long hair, beards or mustaches, but I may be confusing him with another wannabe pseudonazi...

I have no idea how many folks were turned off by this, and didn't attend.

Personally, I think that my appearance, wearin' a tie-dye t-shirt, etc., goes a lot further toward convincing fence-sitting folks that we're somewhat "normal," than would a phalanx of clones...

[Desert Dog]

A few years back, there was a pro-CCW rally here in St. Louis. One of the organizers published a "uniform" for the rally. Essentially he wanted everyone to wear a white short-sleeved dress shirt (no such thing as a short sleeved dress shirt, at least in my opinion...), a tie, dark pants and dark shoes. I think he also mentioned something about no long hair, beards or mustaches, but I may be confusing him with another wannabe pseudonazi...

I would have DEFINITELY skipped that rally.

Some people's kids... :scrutiny:

Mike

[TarpleyG]

Yeah, just imagine, a whole group of guys that look like the Michael Douglas character from Falling Down. SCARY!!!

GT

[Nightfall]

It would have been funnier if they'd all been requested to wear plain black suits and sunglasses.

"Hello, Mr. Anderson." :D

[Standing Wolf]

Think about how we look to outsiders?

Actually, I think we probably look pretty respectable to most Americans, and nothing we could possibly say or do could ever persuade the leftist extremists we're not knuckle-dragging wanton killers.

I believe the arguments and faction squabblina and occasional flights of name calling are signs of intellectual health: we don't try to legislate diversity, but actually live it. I've had more than a few of my opinions changed by reading and participating in these threads, and trust others have, too.

[Bruce H]

Any organization that requires dues to exist should be suspect. Most are trying to influence legislation. They are all trying to collect a finite number of dollars. The only weapon they have is the tactic of placing you in a position of thinking they are necessary. One organization badmouthing another and saying how much better they are is standard fare. Even if they are supposed to be working at the same purpose the livelyhood on those who do the collecting is dependant on convincing you they are the greatest. If the NRA or the GOA or any of the others actually pulled off an absolute slam dunk for the second ammendment saying you could own and carry anything you wanted anywhere you wanted how long would they last? Controversy is what keeps them afloat. If this country lasts another two hundred years any bets on things being about like now? They have no reason to finish, but big monitary reasons to prolong the fight.

[Erik]

"You know, sometimes I think we're our own worst enemies... "

Me too. The things some folks type around here are enough to galvanize a hundred Anti's to spread a dozen more negative stereotypes; all to our detriment.

[CZ-75]

The alternative, however, is censorship, which is the intellectual equivalent of the white shirts and dark ties previously mentioned. That people can post nutty stuff says something about how gunowners value freedom. Even when we "pig pile" the left leaning members here, there is no official sanction to it and no movement to ban those whose opinions we don't share.

[Darrin]

Think of how we look? Amen. Tuck in your shirts, shine those shoes, stop slouching and turn your hats around! I guess next you'll say I need a haircut? ;)

[Solinvictus70]

Well, when you have four outspoken US Senators from the two most populous states say on record that they would ban and confiscate guns, I can not call that a conspiracy.

<<what load would work best for the walking undead, etc.?>>
I would use the shotgun with at least #4 shot.
:D

I can see the point with an issue of public perception, but honestly, there are leftist message forums that discuss implementing Marxism in the US. That is the point: they are FORUMS, same as if we were face to face chatting over hypotheticals. I agree with Oleg's site, though, because I really do not believe there is a "typical" gun owner. I have seen cars with Grateful Dead AND NRA stickers on the bumper, if that tells you anything.

[crawfordew]

Solinvictus70,
You mean there are people who DON'T have NRA & Grateful Dead stickers on their cars????? :D
Gene

[Ian Sean]

what load would work best for the walking undead, etc.?

Undead?, does that mean alive? Just kidding.

.30-.30, .308 or .30-06 to the noggin works best in my neighborhood. Results may vary.

Electric shocks just tick 'em off. No flamethrowers either- breathe the fumes and yer a worm feast, be cold in yer own sauce before ya know it.

[Atticus]

I dunno. Ganted, we all (or most of us) cringe when a gun owner comes off as stupid, racist, paranoid etc., but we do represent a cross section of America and that's the way it should be.

[telomerase]

The conspiracy theorists don't just make us look bad; they make all hominids look bad in all parallel universes. The theory that there is a secret, massive conspiracy of the politically powerful to help everyone is the single biggest problem in the multiverse.

Did you have a suggestion that would mitigate this problem? Or are you one of THEM?

[telomerase]

>example: i'll probably never convert to the Glock side, no matter how many arguments i hear about how reliable, accurate, blah blah blah, i just dont get it. doesnt mean i hate glocks or try to steer other people from buying a glock.

So... your hypothesis is that Glocks were created, rather than evolving from the original Glock 17 (was that the original)? Seriously, everyone knows that the universe was created five minutes ago, together with all our memories. (Though bacteria in dishes DO evolve, I can tell you that!)

>just like i'll never understand how people could believe in evolution, but i'll listen to their theories and consider the 'evidence' they provide. but i dont expect everyone else to become a creationist like i am.

I'm more a simulationist; it's obvious that for every real universe inhabited by people with computers, there are a zillion simulations. So there is a vanishingly small probability that we are not in a simulation. All the same, I appreciate the sincere quest for truth of co-simulants like spacemanspiff.

[JohnKSa]

I was walking late one evening and as I approached a tall bridge, I noticed a man standing on the bridge.

As I grew closer, I noticed that he appeared to be dejected or sad. He started toward the edge and I realized he intended to commit suicide.

STOP! I shouted.

He stopped.

Surely you must have something to live for, a family, friends...

No, he replied, none of those.

Well, I asked, then what about your church.

He hesitated and I forged ahead.

What religion are you?

I'm a Christian.

Me too! I responded.

What denomination?

Baptist, he replied.

So am I, what branch?

I'm a Reformed Baptist.

This is amazing. 1853 Reform Council? Or 1901?

1901, he answered.

HERETIC! I shouted and pushed him over the railing.



Moral--Even people who are very alike will still fight vehemently over their minor differences. It's the nature of us all...

[NapAttack]

Yeah and some people have no sense of humor.

So would you prefer that we all appear as humorless curmudgeons?

Did we ever come up with a consensus on the best load for the walking undead or vampires. I've got an ex-wife that I haven't been able to pin down yet. I'm up in the air between zombie and vampire but I really need to know about those loads. I can always alternate loads.

[Solinvictus70]

Das Vampyr is a more hands-on project. Consensus among Central and Eastern Europeans is immobilize the creature with a stake ( or toss a handfull of seeds for it to count) THEN you must decapitate it, stuff the mouth with garlic, and burn the body. Another one is a rose left on the grave. Nowhere near as easy as blasting zombies a 'la Resident Evil for Gamecube. :D

[CZ-75]

Though bacteria in dishes DO evolve, I can tell you that!

When did bacteria have telomeres?

[Double Naught Spy]

Example themes often repeated that might look strange to outsides (and as well as many insiders)...

Conspiracy theory at every level

Unrealistic Hot Button issues like terrorism (within an hour of falling to earth, people were posting theories on the shuttle being brought down by terrorists)

Government is evil.

Laws are evil except those that we like.

Cops are jack-booted power hungry thugs who love nothing better than harassing gun folks and the opportunity to shoot people.

Quick to support other gun owners simply because they are gun owners who were involved in shootings, legal fights, etc. without first knowing the issues and then sometimes afterwards as well.

Posts on intent to commit murder of LEOs who might have to act on laws pertaining to gun confiscation.

Admissions on knowingly breaking the law by carrying concealed in places where carry is illegal because the gun owners don't like the law, think it is wrong, or simply that it does not pertain to them. So much for gun folks being "law-abiding" and doing nothing wrong.

Posts on bizarre gun-related behaviors such as wearing 24/7.

Disallowance of concealed carry means taking away one's right to self defense. Of course this is incorrect, but that is often the sentiment expressed. Disallowance of concealed carry does not mean you can't defend yourself, only that you are not allowed to have a gun to do it.

I am sure I have forgotten many others, but many of these sound strange to non-gun people, even frightening.

[Wildalaska]

Thank you Double Naught!:) :)

[12.7x99mm]

what load would work best for the walking undead, etc.?

:scrutiny:

Thats the only reason why I come to these types of boards

[telomerase]

>When did bacteria have telomeres?

When we transfect bacteria with plasmids that include telomere sequences... then they still don't really have telomeres (but they do have the sequences). Not that that has anything to do with them evolving; if you want to watch evolution, just put increasing doses of antibiotic in the flask, and soon you'll have bacteria that can resist doses that would have killed every single one of the original bacteria.

You can watch evolution in human cells in dishes, too, but that might take a whole month.

[faustulus]

what load would work best for the walking undead
I actually think those are kinda funny sometimes. I think we take ourselves way to seriously. If we loose our sense of humor we will be no better than liberals or conservatives or worse politicians.