Thailand: "Firearms bill needs more teeth"


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cuchulainn
June 10, 2003, 10:27 PM
Some one needs to tell this guy about Canada.

from the Bankok Post

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/11Jun2003_news31.htmlFirearms bill needs more teeth

Kanjana Spindler

The cabinet has approved a bill which would grant an amnesty to those who turn in their illegal weapons to the authorities. The bill will be sent to parliament later this month when it convenes for an extraordinary session to debate next fiscal year's budget.

In principle this seems like a good idea. The motivation for this draft legislation stems from this government's latest crackdown campaign, this time against dark influence But in practice the bill will do little to solve Thailand's basic problem relating to guns.

We claim to be a Buddhist-oriented society. Anyone out early on the streets of towns and villages across the kingdom might agree as they watch silent files of saffron-robed monks collect their daily alms from people of all walks of life.

But while Thailand may give the appearance of being overwhelmingly Buddhist, the reality is quite different. We are a violent society that places little value on the so-called sanctity of life. How else can one explain the lack of public outrage at the huge list of unexplained deaths relating to the recent campaign against drugs?

It is not sufficient to say that the majority of people believe that these victims of extra-judicial murder deserved what they got. There are hundreds of grieving families who will testify that their loved ones had nothing to do with drugs. It's the same with road carnage.

But the worst aspect of our tolerance of violence within our society is our love-hate relationship with the gun. We might laugh in despair at the power of the gun lobby in America, but in recent days we have witnessed the pigeons coming home to roost with school shootings in our own backyard. The rule of law upcountry has long played second fiddle to the rule of power backed up by the rule of the gun.

The simple truth is that Thailand is awash with guns of all descriptions, both of the supposedly legal kind and of the illegal kind. This is not surprising. For decades we have been surrounded by neighbouring countries at war with themselves and each other. Weapons flood backwards and forwards across our mostly undemarcated borders. Add to this chaotic cross-border flow of weapons of all types and sizes the leaking armory of our own large and ill-disciplined armed forces, and you have an unlimited supply of illegal weapons and no idea of our nation's inventory of supposedly ``official'' weapons.

Does anybody honestly believe that the Royal Thai Army can account for every gun, grenade and bullet that has come under its control over the last three or four decades? And what about all those guns that have been handed out to various paramilitary and volunteer units over the years? The ones that regularly get stolen from village defence units?

So an amnesty for illegal firearms is just so much wallpaper. We need a National Gun Control Centre (NGCC) _ not under the control of the military _ which would act as the registration point for all guns in the country, including those belonging to the military. We need to draw a new baseline inventory if we are really serious about this issue.

Following the establishment of the NGCC, all licences for civilian-owned guns should be cancelled and the laws redrawn to prohibit virtually all civilian ownership of guns, except perhaps those for officially sanctioned sporting (not hunting) purposes. When these arrangements are in place then would be the time for the amnesty period during which people can turn in both illegal and formerly legal guns to the authorities. All of these guns should be publicly destroyed.

To the amnesty I would add a cash bounty as in incentive for people to turn in their pet hand grenades or M16s. If we can fund a bloated military machine, we certainly should be able to invest in soaking up the hoard of weapons that surround us. Buddhism for me is above all about non-violence. It's about time we got serious about keeping people alive.

- Kanjana Spindler is Assistant Editor, Editorial Pages, Bangkok Post

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Standing Wolf
June 10, 2003, 11:10 PM
The motivation for this draft legislation stems from this government's latest crackdown campaign, this time against dark influence.

Oh, that darned old dark influence, anyway!

Wildalaska
June 11, 2003, 02:28 AM
Hi the firearms problem and present political situation in Thailand as evidenced by the foregoing article is far more complex than some of the simplistic knee jerk responses the article surely will engender

WildidbehappytotellyoumoreifyouwantAlaska

Leatherneck
June 11, 2003, 10:39 AM
Do tell, Wild: inquiring minds want to know.

One can't despise the peace-loving Buddhist attitude, but one sure can shake ones head at the naivete of this writer envisioning registration, confiscation, crackdown etc. in Thailand.:rolleyes:

TC
TFL Survivor

Wildalaska
June 11, 2003, 06:13 PM
Hi Leatherneck, I know a bunch of guys living in Thailand, who are Euros, Ozzies and Americans, Ive sent the article out via email and here is a response I receive..my point is of coursae that one cannot export US style freedom willy nilly...Thailnd right now is having some serious political and social problems btw...

Anyway here is a response I got..

"it is now a bit more difficult to get a registered gun, before it was very simple.but it is easy to get an illegal gun, anyone can get one within a day, and most people upcountry have at least one. we have one hunting rifle, simple workshop front loader - cost us 3500 baht. illegal handguns start around the same price if they are older, new ones start around 7000 baht.

still most people who own a registered hand gun do own an illegal gun as well. typical case: thief comes to your land or house - you shoot him dead straight away, then put the throw away piece in his hand, maybe fire it once and go free. much easier and cheaper if you shoot him dead than just injure him.

basic situation you asked? this place here is serious gunculture, and conflicts are more often than not solved with a gun. "

______--------------------------
A baht is running about .023 to the dollar (41 baht to the dollar)
so 7000 baht is $170....I assume that the handguns are Chicom or soviet....

Strings
June 11, 2003, 06:54 PM
... I'd say that this "gun culture" must be strictly a back-country thing, but my uncle hasn't had any problems (he's a missionary over there). And I don't recall seeing ANY evidence of violent crime in Pataya last year. In point of fact, the only time I saw any guns that weren't in govt hands was at Tiffany's (upstairs, transvestite cabaret: downstairs, indoor shooting range). Maybe things have changed over the past year...

rock jock
June 11, 2003, 07:50 PM
I thought the wide availability of guns were supposed to make society into a Shangri-La.

twoblink
June 11, 2003, 08:45 PM
So we legislate to make sure that the good guys don't have guns, while the bad guys never obey the laws anyways.. Great idea...

Wildalaska
June 11, 2003, 11:51 PM
And I don't recall seeing ANY evidence of violent crime in Pataya last year. In point of fact, the only time I saw any guns that weren't in govt hands was at Tiffany's (upstairs, transvestite cabaret: downstairs, indoor shooting range).

Hah! If you are in Pattaya you sure as heck arent looking for guns :D

Seriuosly though, there are two Pattayas, one of which I managed to delve into a bit, that being not the sex tourist part but the Thai part...it was rough...real rough...and but for the fact that the Thais tends to keep off falang tourists like the plague ( thats something the authorities really frown on I hear) it can be dangerous..

I also hear the yaa baa problem is getting really bad...

The fellow who sent me that email does live up country. Im waiting for some more responses...

WildinterestingstuffAlaska

Mr. Goodglock
June 13, 2003, 05:38 AM
Hello I am a Thai LEO from Thailand,

This article is another confirmation of unrealistic attitude in Thai society. Most of the time we fool ourselves on perception of the society quoting traditional value and religion as the real phenomenon in present day Thailand. Problem solving measure rarely reach the objective as we refuse to look at what is really happening. Campaign for NO sex not safe sex for teenagers as this is the Buddism country, AIDS is the result of immorality not fluid transmission, Arms people with wisdom to fight criminal and NOW gun control can eliminate gun use in crime. The writer clearly presents high availability of illegal gun in Thailand yet she advocate the confiscate of legally guns own by the people. Those who apply for gun ownership is subjected to finger print and record check. Even transportation of unloaded gun in the trunk of your car can lead to criminal charge. All gun must keep at the registered address of the owner and can not be use by other person except in extreme emergency. Open official reveals record of more than 200,000 drug offenders arrested ANUALLY for the past 4 years in the country of around 63 millions. I admit that some people survive the violent crime to the old but is it the so safe society that people deserve to be disarmed?

PS: Last month some gangs of mobile phone robber were arrested in Bangkok. They attacked indiscriminately in public place and after got the phone and money murder many victims using hard object in the street or by throwing the victim from the pedestrian crossing bridges. None of the gang member is armed.

PS 2: I will unsubscribe the Bangkok Post.
:fire: :fire: :fire:

Mr. Goodglock
June 13, 2003, 05:46 AM
Sorry missing words

....According to the present law those who apply for gun ownership is already subjected to finger print and record check.

Oh, for 7,000 Baht (around 166 USD) you can get an illegal first class pistol here: 1911 or whatever. Near the border you can get a M16 for 4,000 (less than 100 USD) Baht if you know the guy sorry for AK47 lover, it is getting harder to get.

Wildalaska
June 13, 2003, 05:48 AM
Sawadee khap

So tell us how the war on drugs is going in Thailand..I have seen allegations of thousands of extrajudicial killings..

WildkopkhunkhapAlaska

Mr. Goodglock
June 13, 2003, 05:56 AM
BTW the article writer name is female. One more thing, all gun control regulations can be overruled case by case by personal approval of the Ministry in Interior, guess who will be those lucky folk?:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

S_O_Laban
June 13, 2003, 06:13 AM
I like the part about 1911s for 166 dollars :D :D

Mr. Goodglock
June 13, 2003, 06:17 AM
Sawasdee Krup. Wan suk laew, pai teaw tee nai dee?

Isn’t it funny the term “extrajudicial killings”. I think it has been invented by the Bangkok Post. The war on Drug between Feb.-May 2003 directly results in 3-4 folds increase of drug price, higher offenders arrest and drug case rate than any 3 months period and very high killing rate. Drug dealing is actually subsiding but you can see that this business is evaporate or rain back down easily. the drug war is extended to december 2003 (or until the mext election?). Now the National Administrating Center to Conquer Drugs has additional duty in conquer the “Dark Influence” (also invented by the Bangkok Post).

Best regard

Strings
June 13, 2003, 04:35 PM
>Hah! If you are in Pattaya you sure as heck arent looking for guns<

No... my wife and parents just happen to like Pattaya much more than Bangkok, that's all...

>Seriuosly though, there are two Pattayas, one of which I managed to delve into a bit, that being not the sex tourist part but the Thai part...it was rough...real rough...and but for the fact that the Thais tends to keep off falang tourists like the plague ( thats something the authorities really frown on I hear) it can be dangerous..<

Maybe I just didn't walk into any of the "bad" areas then...

>I also hear the yaa baa problem is getting really bad...<

?????

>The fellow who sent me that email does live up country. Im waiting for some more responses...<

I know there have been some problems WAY out in the back country, but that isn't going to be solved by restricting access to weapons in the cities...

Sawasdee Krup, Mr.Goodglock!

Where in Thailand do you live? When we come over, we're usually in Pattaya, although my uncle is up closer to Chang Mai. Maybe we could buy you a drink next time we're over?

Mr. Goodglock
June 16, 2003, 02:05 AM
Hi Hunter Rose,

I live in Bangkok. Actually there are some real good place to sit and eat in Pattaya. I used to make 1 day trip from BKK to change the eating place. Next time let's try these: "Tarzan Hut" beyond the south of Jomtiame beach, it is for seafood, separated from the crow and feel like private seaside, "Hoff" in Middle Pattaya beach next to the Starbucks is for Italian dish, it has real coal stove and live band, the Hard Rock Pattaya is the best Hard Rock though, great if you feel like it. Welcome to the town anytime, I am office type and don't do much OT. :p

Strings
June 16, 2003, 05:19 PM
... I was thinking more along the lines of steak at the New Orleans. Which, for those who don't know, has about the best tenderloin in the world... ;)

I'll let ya know when we're coming again!

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