[Seeker]

Not to take away anything from the Chechans, who have fought the good fight against russian invasion and oppression for hundreds of years (and no discussion of which side is right or wrong, simply a discussion of tactics)....

...but is anyone seeing a simularity between the Chechen m.o. around Grozny over the last couple of years and the current resistance in Iraq?

Rumsfeld Sees No Quick End to Attacks in Iraq (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20030610/ts_nm/iraq_dc) BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Tuesday he expected remnants of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s forces to go on attacking U.S.-led troops in Iraq (news - web sites) for months but they would ultimately be rooted out.

Even as he spoke, the U.S. Central Command reported that assailants armed with rocket-propelled grenades had killed an American soldier and critically wounded another in the Iraqi capital.


Does this read like the various press releases that the Russians see from Chechnya? Anybody remember the Russians, back in '99, saying that they would complete ops in Chechnya by winter?

For those of you that haven't followed the Chechen war; the standard Chechen M.O. has been to ambush russian patrols, which typically consist of 3 to 10 vehicles travelling in columns by killing the first vehicle and the last vehical w/ rpg and then pouring heavy mg and small arms fire into the trapped column until they hear the helicopters coming and then they ghost.

This typically kills 3 to 20 russians, and they do it every day.

Where as in Iraq we are starting to see small scale attacks that kill 1 or 2 US Troops at a time and the attacks are becoming more regular.

The Russians have deployed between 80,000 and 120,000 troops in Chechnya against less than 5000 Chechen fighters (per the Russian media releases), and have been engaged for 4 years w/ no end in sight.

Thoughts and Comments?

If anyone would like to discuss the War in Chechnya in more detail, start a new thread.

[Mark Tyson]

The Russian campaign in Chechnya was an unqualified disaster in round one, the initial 1994-1996 war. The Russian army showed a complete lack of preparation, low morale, poor training, and little or no tactical sense. In one infamous incident, the Maikop mechanized infantry brigade was allowed to advance to the center of Grozny; when it entered the central square of the city it was surrounded, cut off and comlpetely destroyed. Chechens fought from corners, from balconies, from sewers, windows and turned the whole city into one fortified strong point. Russian tanks advanced without infantry cover, and were easily dispatched with RPG's and improvised incendiaries. It took about a month for the Russians to take the city. Finally in 1996 the Chechens organized a large scale (for guerillas) operation and actually pushed the Russians out of the ruins of Grozny, forcing Yeltsin to accept a cease fire.

The Chechens were well armed with small arms, mortars and even some tanks looted from former Soviet arsenals, but the decisive weapon was the rocket propelled grenade which was used to devestating effect in the close city quarters. However, when the Russians could catch the Chechens outside of the built up areas, they brought in their artillery and air support
more effectively.

In the second Chechen war 1999-present the Russians improved their tactics somewhat. Putin takes a lot of credit for its successs, but actually it had been planned for some time before he was even Prime Minister, much less president. They took the northern third of the country first, then slowly surrounded and entrapped the southern mountainous portions.

In Grozny, more use of reconissance, UAV's and night operations by small units was made. Russian special ops have managed to kill and capture several prominent Chechen rebel leaders. Still, there were many bloody engagements for the Russians.

The Chechens have proven themselves to be masters of guerilla warfare. Some Chechen elements were involved with the Taliban in Afghanistan and fought against US/allied forces, but not many.

[Solinvictus70]

It seems similar in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bulk of attacks have been surprise hits and then the attackers fade back into the countryside. One of the most recent in Afghanistan had gunmen on motorcycles. This is beginning to stink of a quagmire. For all intents, the Iraqis have possibly hundreds of cached weapons dumps to keep this up as long as they want. Our troops rounded up 400 fighters today, but by attrition they will keep replacing them.

[Carlos]

Just keep an eye on Iraq, then the Palestinians.

[Seeker]

The Russian campaign in Chechnya was an unqualified disaster in round one, the initial 1994-1996 war....

Rather nicely done. Strategicly and tactically (whoops used the "T" word..reckon Skunk will be on scene shortly:D )

It would seem the Chechens have read a book or two.

They are doing a good job this time out as well. And the Breakout of Grozny was nicely executed and would have been perfect if they had not been sold out.

If Bashyev is the brains behind the resistance, he has made his place in history as a great general.

[moa]

One thing the Iraqi resistance has going against it is very spotty public support. In some instances, in many places, Saddam and his thugs are roundly hated, and with good reason. This is especially true in the Shia south and Kurdish north.

The stronghold of Saddam's supporters is limited to mostly Sunni Muslims. Also, Iraq is very tribal oriented.

It is difficult for guerilla movements to function without a lot of support among most of the population.

In Vietnam attrition pretty much destroyed the Viet Cong, especially after the 1968 Tet offensive. At that point, NVA regulars continued much of the fight

[Ol' Badger]

Hmmm. Lets see here. Russkies killing what? Slavs! Slavs killing Russkies. Its a win win to me.