I just bought a new DPMS 308 and have a problem, help?


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HKUSP45C
March 24, 2007, 11:47 PM
So, I just picked up a DPMS LR-308 and I absolutely love it! However, I have a problem. I'm probably just ignorant, so I'm hoping one of you fine folks might be able to educate me.

So, the problem I'm having is: When I chamber a round of South African surplus 308 the bolt won't go into battery. It closes almost all the way. Then it's darn near impossible to pull the charging handle back to eject the round. I had to use a sock looped over the handle to get a good enough grip to open the bolt on the last attempt.

The ammo works flawlessly in my 308 Saiga but it appears to be a non-starter in this rifle. I bought the thing new, in box and did nothing to it when I got it home. I just loaded a mag, slapped it in and pulled the handle. The problem showed up after 3 attempts with the same results. I'm, frankly, at a loss. I thought 308 would the same the world over but this stuff acts like it's too big for the chamber or something.

Thanks in advance for any help at all. I've looked through google but found nothing very helpful.

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Rem700SD
March 24, 2007, 11:50 PM
More accurate guns have tighter chambers, and tighter tolerances. Try some none surplus through it and see if the results are the same.

Dan

HKUSP45C
March 24, 2007, 11:58 PM
More accurate guns have tighter chambers, and tighter tolerances. Try some none surplus through it and see if the results are the same.

Dan

yeah, that's what I was gonna try tomorrow. I was just wondering if this kind of thing was common.

DWARREN123
March 25, 2007, 12:47 AM
If it has match chamber that may be the reason. Match chambers can be picky.

Evil Monkey
March 25, 2007, 12:57 AM
I believe the DPMS 308's are exactly that, 308's. On their website they have 223 and 5.56mm rifles, but for 308 they only have 308 and not 7.62mm NATO. Since South African 7.62 is NATO, that's probably why the rifle isn't going into battery.

And since DPMS 308 mags are around $50 each, I don't know what you were thinking.:confused: :)

Ndenway
March 25, 2007, 01:51 AM
try some blackhills, FGMM, hornaday match ect. and see how it runs, some of these type rifles take a bit of time to break in, also lube the hell out of the bolt and carrier,

dementionaly the 308win and 7.62x51 nato round are the same,

however unlike 556 nato and 223rem, the 762.51 nato round is loaded to lower pressures than 308win


I've got a armalite 10A4, and it took a bit of time for it to break in and run on surplus ammo,

but if yours isn't running or continues to FTF after a few hundred rounds, give DPMS a call and send it back as it might have a chamber issue.



as for the DPMS metal 19 rnd mags, you can now find them for around $30ish each when you buy 5 or more, look on the equipment exchange for ar10s on ar15.com plenty of vendors selling them,

look at 44mag.com also, I think they're selling singles for approx $35.

Fingolfin
March 25, 2007, 03:05 AM
I bought the thing new, in box and did nothing to it when I got it home.

Make sure you don't have any packing grease or lube in the chamber from the factory.

HKUSP45C
March 25, 2007, 11:19 AM
OK, I checked (as well as I could) and the chamber seems clear. Both mags behave the same ... the only thing I can come up with is ammo.

I'm headed to Gander Mountain to buy some nice 308 and then to a range right by the house that has a very helpful staff. Maybe I'll get my answer by lunch time. I'll post my results.

Thanks soooo much for the replies and the help. You guys rock.

HKUSP45C
March 25, 2007, 01:18 PM
Well, no joy. Same problem with federal premium and winchester Super X .... I'm so sad. The rifle seems so well built and now I'm just kind of disillusioned. I sent an E-mail to DPMS customer service and I guess I'll try to strip it and have a look see. Having never done that before this should be an experience. I'll let y'all know what comes of it.

HKUSP45C
March 25, 2007, 02:08 PM
Well, stripping it was suprisingly easy with a little help from some Arfcom instructions. I found no "gunk" anywhere and everything seems to be working. I gave it some lube, re-assembled it and popped in a mag. Yanked the bolt and .... same thing. Wierd. I did drop a round into the barrel while I had it apart and it seemed to slip in then out back out with no fuss. The cam seemed a bit stiff but I lubed it and seemed to loosen up. This did not, however, fix the problem. I'm at a loss. Anyone have any other ideas to try while I'm waiting on DPMS customer service to return my E-mail.

Sadly since this is my first foray into the AR platform I'm completely ignorant as to what to look for that may be specific to this design.

I did notice some scratches on the case after ejecting the unspent rounds. Although it could just be marks from the round cycling through the action. They don't seem uber deep but they look a bit out of place from what I'm used to. My Saiga AK in 308 doesn't seem to chew up brass that badly but again this is a platform I'm wholly unfamiliar with.

I do however appreciate the replies so far.

funfaler
March 25, 2007, 02:19 PM
A buddy of mine had a DPMS 308 and it got stuck with South African, Port, Aussie, CAVIM surplus ammo.

We called DPMS and they said that their rifles are Chambered for 308 match ammo and it is designed to be tight. They also said that shooting ANY surplus will void the warrantee, as well as shooting any hand loads.

I loved the rifle, and he got a line on some cheaper mags ($20 each, in bulk), and I considered getting one. After this experience, opted for another M1a. The AR 308s, DPMS in particular, are not battle rifles, they are target, hunting rifles at best. They are not designed to handle a variety of ammo and I think they lack the robustness to last.

Run some match 308 through it, you will find that it runs well and is very accurate.

All depends on what you want out of your 308 semi auto. If it is rugged, affordable, reliability, then perhaps a platform other that the AR system is in order.

DPMS said that they, or a good gunsmith, can ream the chamber to 7.62 NATO, and it would function with the surplus, but not guarantee or warrantee.

Good luck

Charshooter
March 25, 2007, 02:30 PM
forget using the 7.62 NATO, use the standard 308 otherwise you will have to ream it and that would not be that way to go unless you plan on olny using the 7.62 NATO

Geno
March 25, 2007, 02:39 PM
I have one of the DPMS .308s. The book advises to check the chamber and the locking lugs. Mine, even in spite of the fact that it was NIB...yet unopened, had some rust on the receiver's portion of the lock-up. That somewhat urinated me off.

Even after I cleaned it thoroughly with the supplied tool and lubed it well, it remains unbelievably tight! Big-time tight! You have to allow the bolt to slam forward under full-force. You can't close it slowly with any ammunition. BTH, mine is extremely accurate! Be sure to follow the barrel-break-in-process to the "T"!!! These rifles are capable of 0.25" up to 1.5" if you break it in properly.

I'll be having a conversation with DPMS about that rust tomorrow.

Onmilo
March 25, 2007, 03:03 PM
By chance did you field strip the rifle before you went out to shoot it?
You may have installed the bolt backwards.
Ejector to the inside and extractor to the outside or looking down from the top of the bolt, the extractor should be on the right side of the carrier.

HKUSP45C
March 25, 2007, 03:39 PM
Doc, thanks for the reply. It's sort of comforting to hear I'm not the only one who may be having a glitch. I tried letting the bolt slam forward from the locked position on the match ammo. Unfortunately all that did was make the bolt that much harder to pull back to eject the round after it still didn't close to battery. I guess I'll try to re-strip it and find what could be gumming it up. I have instructions to field strip it but I have not seen anything on how to break down the upper past that. Frankly, I'm not all that gung ho to pull it that far down if I can avoid it.

It does chap my butt a bit that a brand new rifle is giving me this many fits. I'm sure that it'll work out to my satisfaction in the end. Until then I'm afraid I can't give DPMS my approval, though. We'll see what we can see when I look at the problem areas you're describing though. Thanks for the direction, it's much nicer than flying blind.

Omnilo: I hadn't done anything at until it malfunctioned ... then I just stripped and lubed it. I put it back together carefully and had the exact same problem.

DnPRK
March 25, 2007, 03:48 PM
Check the function of the extractor and ejector with the bolt out. They should be stiff, but not impossible to move.

With the upper separated and bolt/carrier out, color the case of one cartridge with magic marker, then drop it into the chamber. Wiggle it around with your little finger, then remove it and look to see if the magic marker was rubbed off. This will give you an idea if the chamber is too tight for your ammo.

HKUSP45C
March 25, 2007, 04:44 PM
OK, something wierd happened. Trying all the suggestions in this thread again and having to setup an intricate system for clearing the jams. It involved an extension cord looped over a rafter on the porch then looped over the charging handle to yank the bolt back .... I'm glad the rifle is well built.

Anyway the news is ... it suddenly started working. I had to take it apart and put it back together a few times (I'm getting quite good at that) and lubed and scrubbed and fiddled and poked and finally some Winchester super X just fell to battery. So I manually cycled the action and another went to battery. Did that two more times and then the Federal was up next in the stack and it went to battery. Dang, it seems to be working just fine. Course it's too late to head back to the range, but visually it appears to be working. Also I no longer have to yank the charging handle with a sock or cord to clear the unfired round, it's still stiff but at least I can cycle it by hand now. Barely.

I'm not going to try to feed it NATO for a while. I think it was just "brand spanking new stiff" ... tighter than Dick's hatband as my dad would say.

Doc, if you come back to the thread and have the time and inclination I'd sure be greatful for a quick rundown of that break in you were talking about.

Thanks again guys it looks like it just needed some pokin, proddin, pullin, cussin and stuffin to get it loose enough to run right.

Geno
March 25, 2007, 05:10 PM
The break-in period is detailed in your manual, page 37:

Barrel Information

Step I) Clean the chamber and barrel after every round, for the first 25 rounds.

Step II) Clean the chamber and barrel after every 10 rounds, up to 100 rounds.

They caution that it can take up to 200 rounds for the break-in. I add, never, never ever use wire brushes in that barrel or chamber!!! Ever! I use plastic and a non-embedding compound on cloth with oil. Two runs into and out and the barrel is entirely cleaned. Wipe it, dry it, continue.

After I get mine broken-in, I plan to put my 36X scope on it and give it the "group-test".

Good shooting!

Doc2005

Titan6
March 25, 2007, 07:43 PM
The literature I have from DPMS says you can fire high quality surplus only. I read that as US. It specifically forbids SA, Indian, Paki, reloads and a few others by name. I shoot surplus US and new American commerical ammo and have never had a jam, FTF or any other problem, ever. With the current price of commerical ammo and the lack of current supply of US it is an expensive gun to feed.

I did follow the break in closely. It was a real pain. The guys at the range looked at me like I was crazy.

Geno
March 25, 2007, 08:44 PM
It is unfortunate that one cannot use good-quality hand-loads through DPMS firearms. I have never had one of my hand loads kaboom. I cannot say that for factory loads. I had three, brand new firearms destroyed by factory-loaded ammunition:

1) a Federal Premium .270 Win, 130 Gn, SP destroyed my Sako, Finn Bear

2) a Winchester Personal Defense .45 ACP, 230 Gn, HP destroyed my Kimber, Ultra Eclipse

3) a Remington Thunderbolt, .22LR, destroyed my T/C .22 Classic.

Again, going back to reiterate one simple fact...I have reloaded thousands of rounds. I have never, in nearly 30 years of reloading, ever had a kaboom with one of my handloads. Why no handloads? When I posed this question of Kimber, they told me, "For you, it's fine. You know what you're doing, and you don't 'hot-rod' the rounds. We say no reloads because some people 'hot rod' the loads, and others just don't know how to reload properly."

I would seek the same variance from DPMS prior to using reloads.

Doc2005

cheygriz
March 25, 2007, 09:45 PM
You CAN use good quality handloads. Many manufacturers say "no handloads" because they have no control over what you will use. They're trying to prevent having a lawsuit when "Bubba" fills his case with Bullseye and tries to cram a 220 grain bullet on top of it.:rolleyes:

USP,

Did you thoroughly clean the chamber before tryng to fire it?? Sometimes preservatives in the chamber will cause all manner of trouble.

I haven't had any trouble with Portugese ball and Federal Match in my LR 308 AP4.

From the troubles you describe, if it doesn't work now, I would send it back to DPMS. Every now and then a lemon gets out even in a Rolls royce!:p

Geno
March 28, 2007, 12:50 PM
I just bought a NIB DMPS AP4 .308 with aluminum upper (they do make steel). Anyhow, I have fired a total of 10 rounds of Win. 308 FMJs through it.

After firing it, cleaning it, and lubing it, I had manipulated the charging handle a total of probably 10 to 15 times. Even with excessive lubricant, about 80% of the black anodize finish is already worn off the left side of the charging handle.

In addition, the charging handle feels like there is sand or metal shavings in it. It is very course, even when lubed with M-Pro7, Shooters Choice Gun Grease and NECO Moly Coat. Now, of these tremendous lubricant even reduced the grit, let alone eliminate it. I have had several AR-styled rifles, Bushmasters, Colts, DMPS, and more. I have never experienced a rough charging handle. It get better...it smells! Literally, it stinks when I manipulate the charging handle.

In addition, the locking lugs in the upper receiver portion are significantly rusted. When I spoke the DMPS, I was advised, "...that is not rust, it's machining oil." If it were oil, it would have come out when I cleaned it with the wire brush, which I view basically as sinful...I prefer to use plastic-only. (But that is a different story).

So, fellas...do me a massive favor...check your charging handle and locking lugs:

1) Does it create a foul, burning stench after you manipulate it? (The handle, not the chamber).

2) Does the charging handle manipulate smoothly, or does it feel like it has sand in it?

3) Estimate the percentage of anodized finish that has been worn off the charging handle, and how many months have you owned it, how many rounds through it?

4) Are the locking lugs on your upper receiver "rusted"-colored?

Don't get me wrong. I like the rifle, and I intend to buy one in .260 Rem some day. Also, DPMS is saying that if I need to return it, they will pay the shipping. So, what is my point? Simple, if it does not need to go back, I don't want to waste time with shipping, and waste DPMS' money for the shipping either. Any assistance you can give will be greatly appreciated.

Doc2005

silverlance
March 28, 2007, 01:16 PM
I have a friend whose gun developed cracks. He tried to send it back and they sent it back telling him that they had done spectrum analysis and found that he used surplus rounds (I guess the powder leaves a signature). Voided warranty.

Another friend busted his gun using Wolf. The manufacturer fixed it free and shipped free.

Go figure.

Evil Monkey
March 28, 2007, 01:23 PM
Another friend busted his gun using Wolf. The manufacturer fixed it free and shipped free.

Go figure.

That's probably because Wolf ammo is newly manufactured ammo for the commercial market whereas the surplus are old left overs that may be not fit for duty anymore. I'm guessing that's how DPMS looks at it.

HKUSP45C
March 28, 2007, 01:47 PM
It's an interesting read Doc, where did you find it? I'd be interested in following the disucussion.

My rifle is performing flawlessly now. I have no complaints. I sent an E-mail to DPMS customer service a few hours before I got it fixed on Sunday and had a reply in my in box at 8am Houston time the following day. No questions asked, just "send it back to this address and we'll fix it, sorry for the trouble." I hopped on the horn with them Monday afternoon and was, essentially, told "well, it's brand new, it needs a little movement to get it locking up right in all the important places" .... "oh, and clean it, if that doesn't work we'll pay the shipping for you to send it in."

Who can argue with that? The guy on the phone seemed bored with the conversation, I can only assume he has it several times a day. All told, I'm very happy with the rifle now, frankly I was happy before, if a bit frustrated too. The customer service was responsive and efficient, though not dripping with salutations and nicey-nice. Hey, whatdayawant?

Honestly, I have no qualms with a manufacturer telling you that running X component in thier product will void your warranty. As long as they tell you up front. Once informed, should you decide to purchase anyway, you're on your own and rightfully so.

I stil haven't made it to the range yet to try out the rifle (damn honey-dos) but as soon as I do I'll provide a detailed range report. Pics too.

Maybe I'm just easy to please from years of actually having to work retail but so far I'm satisfied. We'll see how my attitude is after the range trip. I honestly think I might be a bit scared to go to the range. I'd hate to have another malfunction while out and about .... talk about the icing on the drama. I know, it's silly; sue me.

I did learn something VERY important while immersed in this little saga. You know when you see G.I. soldiers slap the bottom of a mag on thier rifles as they're inserting them. Well that is to keep a fully loaded mag from failing to latch and landing on thier little toes, creating a bruise the size of a half dollar and the color of a Japanese fan. Or, so I read ;) :p :what:

EdLaver
March 28, 2007, 01:58 PM
mine shoots portuguese, hmmmm, odd. I only fired about 20 though. Didnt affect accuracy or anything at all.

Geno
March 28, 2007, 02:02 PM
The following pics show what I suspect to be rust, not machine oil. Also, the charging handle has been wiped dry for taking the pics...the oil was too reflective. You will note how heavily lubed the bolt (beside it) is for comparison purposes:

Bolt Pics:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/Lugs3.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/Lugs2.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/Lugs1.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/Lugs4.jpg

Charging Handle Pics:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/Handle1.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/Handle4.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/Handle3.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/Handle2.jpg

Thanks for the fedback thus far.

Doc2005

hacksaw
March 28, 2007, 03:14 PM
All of these issues and these rifles are cost so much money. For the amount of change you have to part with I'd be more tempted to hunt up a nice m1A of 70's or 80's manufacture. I like the AR platform, but the pains you guys are going through makes me wince in sympathy. Just my humble opinion and worth every cent you paid for it...unlike those rifle's you guys are wrestling with.

good luck.

Geno
March 28, 2007, 04:30 PM
I have an M1A "Loaded", and I wanted an AR-styled rifled to supplement it. Both had to be 7.62X51.

DPMS has been all-over-the-problem! Grass does not grow under their feet! They have already advised me that they have sent out (same day) a pick-up tag. They are paying the shipping, they are making the repair (if needed) fully-under-warranty, and have stated that they will try to turn it around in days...not weeks. We'll see how the repair goes, and I'll post an update.

Doc2005

Titan6
March 28, 2007, 05:16 PM
That is just sad. I don't know what that big scar on the side of the bolt carrier is but it should not be there and is more than likely the cause of your dragging.

There is some machine oil there but that does look a lot like rust inside the chamber. DPMS sends the rifles in plastic cases. Could be a lot of reasons that happened including not enough desicant in shipping container or the shop kept the weapon cased without the dessicant.

Whenever I have a weapon in a plastic case more than a day or in damp climate I always slip a small dessicant pack into the chamber and leave the bolt part way back. Then put a pack at the rear of the action and the end of the barrel. Weapons don't normally rust that way.

Geno
March 28, 2007, 06:39 PM
Here too! Any time I travel more than the distance of the local range, with my firearms in plastic, I take my Rig Rag and Rig Grease and give a once all-over. I remove the stock and coat the entire exterior, remove the bolt and coat the chamber and bore, etc. If I can see it, reach it, I coat it.

When my firearms are stored in the vault (100% of the remainder of time), I remove them weekly, apply M-Pro7 oil, manipulate the action, trigger, safety, etc and return them. It is also a good idea to store them coated or in a silicone "sock".

I know, I know...I am hyper meticulous with my firearms. But, I believe that if I take care of them, then, if someday I need them, they'll be there to take care of me.

Thanks for all of the info all. It has been greatly appreciated. Any additional information will be equally appreciated. No such thing as information over-load regarding firearms care and maintenance.

Doc2005

asknight
March 29, 2007, 03:17 AM
It may just be me, or it may be the angle of the picture... but your bolt carrier appears to be bent at or near the shoulder. Is this an optical illusion?

Geno
March 29, 2007, 03:24 AM
Hopefully illusion. I was cleaning it thoroughly tonight to prepare it for shipping. I didn't notice any irregularities. I do see that in the picture though. I didn't notice it before. Interesting.

Thanks,

Doc2005

Wes Janson
March 29, 2007, 10:32 AM
My knowledge is limited, but that doesn't really look quite like rust to me..looks more like some really baked-on grease. The color, pattern, and placement just doesn't suggest rust, IMO. As for the charging handle, have you looked inside the upper to see if there's something protruding into the channel? I'm not familiar with the rifle, but that sort of wear doesn't look right at all.

Geno
March 29, 2007, 12:21 PM
Actually, yes, I sprayed the entire rifle bare last night with "Gun Scrubber", then looked at the inside of the receiver. It had areas that are raised ever so little, but, as we have seen, enough to tear up the charging handle.

Shocking the difference between DPMS employees. No names here, but the first one was professional and stated matter of fact, that is not right...we will make it right. The second took a "Oh whatever" attitude, stating, "We can take a look at it, because you probably gonna send it in eventually anyhow."

What the "heck"?! $1,200.00 and he says that to me? How about you fix it because it is defective, and only 10 rounds fired through it! That second DPMS emloyee's attitude urinated me right off. That's a good way to loose my business...just ask Kimber!

At present, I am pondering having the receiver upgraded to the steel upper since I have already told them don't even try to refinish (refurbish) my rifle. If it's a lemon, replace the lemon part...just like a car. If there is a price difference, I am willing to pay the difference.

We'll see. I'll post any updates I receive.

atblis
March 29, 2007, 12:28 PM
Is that grease around your gas tube?

Geno
March 29, 2007, 01:45 PM
The Gun Grease ran down in there after I sprayed it with M-Pro7 Cleaner.

Obviously, it wasn't like that for firing. For firing, it get just a sheen of oil. :neener:

Doc2005

mpmarty
March 29, 2007, 02:22 PM
HK, you say you also have a Saiga .308, can you post a comparison on the two after you shoot the new one?
thanks,

HKUSP45C
March 29, 2007, 02:32 PM
mpmarty,

Sure, I'm actually VERY curious what a 300 dollar rifle looks like next to a 1300 dollar one at 100 meters. There will be some difference inherently because the rifles are fundamentally different. The Saiga is a sporter config and the Panther is .... well an EBR. Both are scoped with identical optics and I'll set up a test with identical ammunition once I get a feel for the DPMS. I'm going to try to make it as fair as possible.

As an aside, even if the Saiga outshoots the DPMS I'll still be glad of the purchase. I've always wanted a EBR even if it's not "Battle Rifle" tough. Hell, with a pistolgrip and a new FCG the Saiga could end up being my MBR. We'll see.

Oh, I lost my Dig. Cam. so no pics as of yet. I'm ordering a long overdue replacement of it and hope to have it arrive next week. When it get to my house the pics will get to THR. :)

aubie515
April 4, 2007, 05:28 PM
I own two DPMS LR Panthers and never had any issues with them. If there is a defect, DPMS will make things right.

Geno
April 6, 2007, 11:38 PM
DMPS did send a pick-up tag for UPS. I sent the upper receiver back to them. It arrived the 2nd day. The day after it had arrived, a DPMS employee contacted me to advise me that he had taken it back to the repairmen.

Re: the charging handle, at first he stated, "We determined you were simply pulling too hard left and up instead of straight back and that's what happened to strip the charge handle".

I countered with the fact that, "I have (X number) of AR-styled rifles! None of my ARs has done this, and some of the them are years old! Some have thousands of rounds through them, and they still look new! I pull straight back. The rifle arrived defective. Either the receiver or the charge handle (or both) was/were not properly milled!"

He then stated, "Okay then, we'll look it over fully. We'll also look into the rust., or whatever it is."

They are targeting 10 days to have it back to me. He advised me that he will contact me by Tuesday with a diagnosis of the problems before they begin repairs.

End up date for now.

goon
April 7, 2007, 12:33 AM
Frankly, I think I would have gone over the edge when they accused you of causing the problem by not charging the rifle correctly.

I think that at that point I would have countered with something like "Well since I am obviously too stupid to operate this rifle, you might as well just keep it and send me a check for $1200. I will let you know when the check arrives in the mail."

Customers should not have to do QC on a brand new gun.
I have had so many problems with new guns that I now basically stick with used ones anymore.

HKUSP45C
April 7, 2007, 10:58 AM
I finally got to the range. What a great day! I manually bore sighted it and it shoots sooooo sweetly. It did give me fits with the Fed Low Recoil but I had been warned about it before hand. Getting FTEs and FBEs. Hornady TAP, Win Super X and Fed Gold Match all performed better than I could. I love it!

I really need to find a friend or two who shoots rifles though. My technique sucks to be sure. I have a horrible flinch and frankly I'm a bit timid when it comes to the shot. Also, I bruised myself ... I'm an idiot.

Oh, and my NcSTAR scope worked great until I turned on the reticle and fired .... It stopped illuminating after that. I'll call them.

Anyone know of a good gun school on the North West side of Houston?


Doc, I'd make a hobby out of making the life of the guy who said you did it miserable. But I'm mean. I'm curious how well DPMS stands behind thier product, so far, I'm less than impressed.

Geno
April 9, 2007, 08:35 AM
We'll see the tone of the conversation tomorrow when they call me back for an update. Remember the additional upper (custom upper) I ordered? That can be cancelled if this one isn't done right.

Goon, you're certainly correct about so many new guns arriving defective. The fact of 4 out of 5 Custom Kimbers being defective (about 18 months back) lead me to swear-off Kimbers. I know most of their firearms are excellent, but mine were horrid. Hopefully DPMS will follow through. If not, well, I take that up if it happens.

Thanks for the support.

Doc2005

Geno
April 11, 2007, 01:09 PM
Update Re: DMPS Repair.

The repair department has had time to strip my .308 upper and have determined that, "...the receiver was improperly milled by a couple thousandths of an inch...". I have elected to have the upper receiver upgraded from aluminum to steel as long as we are making a change-out! DPMS anticipates 10 days to get it back to me.

I am quite pleased with DPMS' communications with me. They continue to be timely and professional. I have every reason to believe that the repair will be completed correctly. I will post another update when I hear something again.

Doc2005

alphach64
April 11, 2007, 06:32 PM
I am suprised to here of these problems with the DPMS .308 - I have a DPMS LR308 with the 24 inch bull barrell I purchase in Jan, and I have fired over 600 + rounds through it and have only had problems with Reloaded ammo because I did not get the Case sized perfect- but with store bought - Federal and the cheap american eagle ammo I have had no problems and this rifle is very accurate- and it looks new inside after 600+ rounds and has gotten more accurate after about 300 rounds of the break in - mine came with the JP trigger and I love it - I can shoot 20 rounds quickly and it is smooth as silk- I guess thankfully I got a good one - DPMS has a very good rep. and supplies a lot of miltary and law enforcement all over the USA and Abroad I think-They also had the the NRA rifle of the year award for the .308- Sorry to hear of the problems once they get figured out I am sure you will love Them -- Good Luck

Geno
April 11, 2007, 08:13 PM
Any company can have a slip here and there. What still impresses me about DPMS, is their zero-tolerance policy. If it's not right, it's wrong. Even if it's a mere 2/1,000ths"! Oh yeah...2/1,000ths"! For that, they paid to have the rifle next-day shipped, and inspected it. And, they have agreed to allow me to have the receiver upgraded to steel?! Wow! They have been top-notch so far. I remain fully confident. I don't want for anyone to believe that I am upset with DPMS. I am posting these updates so that people know what to expect from DPMS in the unlikely event their rifle needed repair.

Doc2005

atblis
April 11, 2007, 11:16 PM
Even if it's a mere 2/1,000ths"

In today's day and age, .002" is a lot.

How is steel an upgrade?

Geno
April 12, 2007, 08:19 AM
Excellent question...

Most people would disagree that it is an "upgrade"...most people don't have a fused neck and an electronic implant in their spine. I have both.

The fact of the steel upper receiver is an upgrade for the extra weight. My neck is fused at C4, C5 & C6, and I have an electric implant in my spine. The steel upper receiver will add over 1.5 pounds to the rifle's weight. I like that fact because it reduces recoil. Also, steel has slightly better wear qualities than aluminum. For me, the "upgrade" is the weight. I admit it is rather subjective, but it is what I wanted, and it was truly professional of DPMS to allow that upgrade.

By the way, factually, it is an upgrade on a DPMS rifle. If one orders a custom-built rifle from DPMS, one does have to pay extra for a steel upper receiver instead of aluminum. That makes it factually an upgrade as well.

atblis
April 12, 2007, 11:28 AM
Regardless of your physical condition, heavier guns generally shoot better.

delta53
April 12, 2007, 12:15 PM
I once had the same problem till i found a squib round just inside the chamber if it had been a little farther in KABOOM . The squib could be from the test fire at the factory check it out

Geno
April 25, 2007, 05:25 PM
I received my DPMS Panther .308 AP-4 back today, with its new steel upper and all. They even sent back the original upper receiver and front sight. I'll post a range report when I get it broken-in. It's pretty sweet-looking!

Doc2005

Damn the Man
May 2, 2007, 04:28 AM
I don't really know nothin from nothin about these, but I'm picking up a DPMS LR-308 on Sunday. So no reloads or cheapo ammo? Is this the case with all AR .308's, or just these Panthers? My SKS loves the Wolf's.:D

If it's not a Battle rifle, why not? Is an Armalite AR-10 a BR? What's the difference? What makes one a BR then, crappy tolerances that lessen the accuracy?

A part of me is glad to know that they're so tightly tolerated. I figure it's going to be accurate, right?

Titan6
May 2, 2007, 12:21 PM
Any new problems Doc or are you in business?

MarshallDodge
May 2, 2007, 01:05 PM
I don't really know nothin from nothin about these, but I'm picking up a DPMS LR-308 on Sunday. So no reloads or cheapo ammo? Is this the case with all AR .308's, or just these Panthers? My SKS loves the Wolf's.

Not trying to sound like a jerk but why would you buy a $1200 dollar rifle and shoot cheap ammo thru it? This is a match grade gun that comes out of the box ready to shoot sub-MOA. It will be very tight.

My Remington 700VS in .223 has a very tight chamber. The only factory ammo I have shot thru it is Winchester and Federal and they were fine. When I first started reloading for it I had problems with the rounds chambering. I purchased a Dillon .223 case gauge and found out that my cases were about .005" too long at the shoulder. It turns out that my resizing die was hitting the case holder and not allowing it to completely size the case. I had to sand down the case holder and since then all is well.
It has shot dime size groups at 100 yards.
Match grade guns will be more finicky but the results on paper are worth it.

I have shot the LR308 and like it but I am waiting to see what Rock River's will be like.

Glass eye
July 4, 2007, 07:49 PM
Hello fellow DMPS owner. I just got my second panther; this one is a 308 right out of the box it says not to use African ammunition!

This is to all people looking for cheap ammunition!!! Donít skimp on a few dollars, how much are you really saving buying cheap non-us ammunition? What I know is cheap ammo means problems! Just food for thought!

P.S. Boom to zoom has got a few DMPS for sale 308ís and more got mine for 999.00 plus 17.oo shipping.

Titan6
July 4, 2007, 09:07 PM
You can get new cheap Remington's at Walmart for $10.00 a box. 1'' sized groups at 100 yards with the occasional flyer. While that is a lot of money ($0.50/rd) it is not much more than case lot cheap foreign surplus and the ammo is new and in good shape. Most ''cheap'' surplus is going for $0.40/rd +.

Feanaro
July 5, 2007, 04:07 AM
Not trying to sound like a jerk but why would you buy a $1200 dollar rifle and shoot cheap ammo thru it?

There are others way too look at it. Why spend $1200 on a rifle that chokes on something a $500 rifle will shoot?

Big Daddy
July 5, 2007, 07:28 AM
It's not about choking on ammo per se. From a manufacturer's perspective they cannot guarantee the ability or quality of reloads. Quite frankly, I feel more confident with MY reloads than a lot of companies new ammo and all other companies "remanufactured" ammo. For every prudent, safe, by the book reloader there are probably five "what about this" reloaders or "hey let's add a few more grains" reloaders. I new a guy that bought an AR style pistol and decided that since it was a pistol he would make some .223 loads with Blue Dot since it was a "pistol" powder and he just guessed on charge weight. I think that is enough explanation on that. As for Surplus ammo, who knows what Pakistan's QC methiods are or that it was stored properly? It's not about what can and can't be done, it's about liability. Look at our society today, it's always someone else's fault and no one takes responsibility for their own actions, "If'n DPMS had made this gun better it could have handled my sooper dooper hand loads." To me, it's also not about my $1200 gun not being able to do what my $500 rifle can. If I buy a rifle for precision work I don't WANT to shoot surplus stuff through it. For blasting and plinking I can load them into my FAL, to shoot itty bitty groups I have rifles for that too.

MarshallDodge
July 9, 2007, 01:11 AM
There are others way too look at it. Why spend $1200 on a rifle that chokes on something a $500 rifle will shoot?
Then go out and buy a $500 rifle and shoot cheap ammo through it. :neener:

Whitman31
July 9, 2007, 01:41 AM
Sounds like a major pain in the backside...I can't believe your positive attitude, I'd have lost my cool, if you spend that much on a new gun, it had better chamber a round without all that trouble. I envy your temperment...

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