[PaladinX13]

Taurus Hy-Lite
http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2007/Day1/Thumbs/100_0233.jpg
"Taurus' Model 85HL2MG .38 Special magnesium revolver weighs a mere 12.5 ounces."

Any ideas on a projected MSRP or release date? If it's priced similar to the S&W 642 (probably not much more than the 642 if brand-name prices are taken into account) then I think a lot of people will be all over this gun. Sure, it's not a huge weight difference, but in a pocket with cell-phones, pocket knives, keys, flashlights, digital cameras, and other things all measured in mere ounces, it can add up.

[Old Fuff]

I'm waiting for it to come out in .357 Magnum... :what: :rolleyes:

[PaladinX13]

Then you'd be playing S&W 340 prices and losing a little velocity shooting .38s out of the longer chamber.

[Old Fuff]

Then you'd be playing S&W 340 prices and losing a little velocity shooting .38s out of the longer chamber.

Somehow I think I'd have a lot more to worry about then a little loss of velocity... :eek: :rolleyes:

REAL MEN don't shoot .38's out of a Magnum...

But the Old Fuff is a wimp

[bakert]

.."But the Old Fuff is a wimp"

So is old bakert when it comes to .357s out of those lightweight guns.:D I have a steel frame 85 which weighs about 8 ounces more and +P.38s are about all I would want to shoot of a gun that size.

[Jkwas]

So is old bakert when it comes to .357s out of those lightweight guns. I have a steel frame 85 which weighs about 8 ounces more and +P.38s are about all I would want to shoot of a gun that size.
Ditto! FWIW, I heard the head of Taurus USA say on a guntalk radio interview this thing was supposed to be really cheap. Cheaper than the existing ultralite. Who Knows?

[Old Fuff]

To get serious...

If they made it in .32 H&R Magnum I might get interested, but not until I let someone else do the bata testing on this Magnesium contruction. The Total Titanium revolvers had some problems, and I'm not sure they were all worked out, particularly when chambered to use the hotest cartridges. I sometimes carry an UltraLite '85 (.38 Special/Aluminum/Steel) snubby with selected standard loads. For anything more I believe in all-steel construction.

And I wouldn't take a small-frame, .357 Magnum snubby as a gift. :uhoh:

[Jkwas]

And I wouldn't take a small-frame, .357 Magnum snubby as a gift
Yes, I see no need to beat up my hand either. I shoot 38+p out of my 357 snub. The magnums are like smacking my hand with a hammer. Maybe I just need to shoot magnums all the time, kill all the nerves in my hand and I won't have a problem :D

[PaladinX13]

Ditto! FWIW, I heard the head of Taurus USA say on a guntalk radio interview this thing was supposed to be really cheap. Cheaper than the existing ultralite. Who Knows?
Thanks, I hadn't heard any pricing information until you shared. I think the current Ti Ultralight is a shade over the 642 in price ($40-ish) so this should mean that the Hy-Lite is at or below 642!

[bakert]

when I bought my Taurus 85, being an old fart and kinda old fashioned too, I opted for the steel model although I'd hear good things about their ultralight. I'd also heard stories of the various new type alloys, especially the titanium guns tying up after getting hot while shooting. I don't know about the magnesium and while I like some of the new fangled ideas and things I wait and let others try them first to make danged sure they work before I spend money or trust one to carry. Just for the record though, I do like some of the polymer frame autos:uhoh:

[ARTiger]

Isn't magnesium flamable? :eek: I have a magnesium firestarter that just a few shavings from it burn like the sun when hit by a spark.

[PaladinX13]

In powder form magnesium wants to oxidize... but then, so does aluminum (which will, in fact, also burn as a powder). Magnesium alloys have been used in armored vehicles, the transmissions of the VW Beetles, motorcycles, etc.

I have heard that Ti cylinders are more susceptible to binding because Ti is more elastic than steel or aluminum (part of why Ti is so strong in general applications), but I have no idea what the Hy-Lite's cylinder will be made of (I haven't listened to the GunTalk segment yet if that mentions it).

[Jim March]

I dunno about this thing. "Pioneers can be identified by the arrows in their backs."

Somebody else can be the first one to play with this sucker. And I don't like ultralights in any case, some bullets yank clean out of their shells under recoil.

[PaladinX13]

If that's a concern, just use normal, robust .38 specials... no +P rounds. The main advantages I'm seeing is a gun who's competitor weighs 25% more and probably costs more. If the Mg is just the frame material, that could account for the 3 ounces without using an exotic cylinder.

Put it this way, if you want to go lighter and stay in the double-action revolver family (no autos and no SAO NAA minis), your options are something like the 317 in .22LR which is 10.5 oz but $630 (introducing the reliability issues of a rimfire cartridge say nothing of stopping power) or the 340 weighting in at 12/13.3 oz for $940/$830... and both these models are more expensive with similarly exotic metals.

Granted, it's a "first" but not a particularly risky one... it's a proven alloy (though, perhaps not in firearms) for a price people are willing to pay. Taurus has definitely been a leader in terms of innovation, but compared to some of their other forays this one's pretty tame, IMHO. If you buy into the lightweight J-frame concept to begin with this seems to be a perfectly reasonable extension.

[ExplEngineer]

For the 30+ years of my career as an agent and since being retired also on a daily basis I have carried a sidearm of one kind of another. Some were issued by the Bureau, some were purchased by myself and are privately owned and I had a choice in selecting the firearm in question.

In no case did an ounce or two of either empty, or loaded weight make a bit of difference in my selection of the firearm to carry. Who really cares anyway. Choose a firearm that fits your hand well (weak hand as well as strong hand), then select the leather (or other material holster) that suits the clothing style that you will be wearing. Sometimes you may want to consider acquiring a second or even a third pistol or revolver to fit your lifestyle. I seriously doubt that small increments of weight, or with the correctly fitting holster even a moderate incremental increase in weight will make much difference in carrying or having the firearm at hand should the need arise. If anything, the diminishing factor of additional weight of the firearm might encourage you to carry the heavier, but more suitable calibre firearm.

[MrTuffPaws]

For the 30+ years of my career as an agent and since being retired also on a daily basis I have carried a sidearm of one kind of another. Some were issued by the Bureau, some were purchased by myself and are privately owned and I had a choice in selecting the firearm in question.

In no case did an ounce or two of either empty, or loaded weight make a bit of difference in my selection of the firearm to carry. Who really cares anyway. Choose a firearm that fits your hand well (weak hand as well as strong hand), then select the leather (or other material holster) that suits the clothing style that you will be wearing. Sometimes you may want to consider acquiring a second or even a third pistol or revolver to fit your lifestyle. I seriously doubt that small increments of weight, or with the correctly fitting holster even a moderate incremental increase in weight will make much difference in carrying or having the firearm at hand should the need arise. If anything, the diminishing factor of additional weight of the firearm might encourage you to carry the heavier, but more suitable calibre firearm.

Those of use that carry in a pocket. A few onces make a big difference.

[MrTuffPaws]

Isn't magnesium flamable? I have a magnesium firestarter that just a few shavings from it burn like the sun when hit by a spark.

You see, after the 5 rounds, then you have a flaming pice of magnesium in your hands. You can throw that at your attackers for a sixth round :D

[ExplEngineer]

Those of use that carry in a pocket. A few onces make a big difference

That is an interesting perspective. Quite honestly I have never known anyone that actually carried a handgun in their pocket for any extended period of time, generally just a quick run out of the house to check on something on the farm, or going to the door, in either case I would suspect that the weight of the handgun is not a consideration.

I'm not asking this to be argumentative or condescending, but why would anyone carry a handgun in their pocket? It seems relatively inaccessible at time of need, perhaps it would collect lint or other sheddings from clothing, and it would create wear patterns and might actually, if carried in that manner frequently enough, actually wear through the clothing. The last point can even be a problem when wearing a holster. In the past I have noted some damage to the lining of my suit coats if I were to wear the "wrong" handgun which is why I have one or more that have rounded edges and "bobbed" hammers to prevent such damage. Finally, if it were to snag or perhaps hastily drawn would not an accidental discharge, perhaps even injuring yourself as well as innocent strangers, be more likely to occur. This would be even more of a problem with a Glock.

Doesn't the stress upon the clothing material make it more difficult to conceal your firearm? Does continual carriage of the firearm in a piece of clothing, e.g. the front pocket of a pair of pants, create an obvious wear pattern that is a "dead give away" rather than subtle concealment?

If you had posed the question of weight while carrying an ankle holster I might have better understood the problem. I have, in the past, shunned such these ankle holsters but now in retirement I wear soft cloths rather than business attire for a large proportion of my time and this type of holster is one of the better ways to conceal a firearm in that type of dress. Yes, weight could become a factor in an ankle holster carriage. But then again, I usually only carry my Detonics 9mm, a more limited in capability firearm in and of itself, in the ankle holster and that pistol, with a fully loaded clip, is not opressive in its weight or design, and while more difficult to access is still set in a stable position and can be drawn within a reasonable amount of time. Not TV gunfighter fast draw time, but certainly reasonable with some sort of concealment and/or cover in the vicinity.

None of these factors may affect you personally, but in my case, and I would suspect in the cases of a number of others they may be substantial considerations

[esq_stu]

Those of use that carry in a pocket. A few onces make a big difference.
I am fine with a few extra ounces of a 642 in the pocket and prefer it over a lighter scandium alloy snub. The recoil of the 340 Sc, even with .38s is not worth the weight savings in my pocket. I've been happy to carry and shoot the 642. I hated shooting the 340 and didn't carry it as a result.

[bannockburn]

ExplEngineer

The only time I used to carry a gun in my pocket (a lightweight S&W Bodyguard), was when I lived in a rather marginal inner city neighborhood many years ago. I would take the dog out for his evening walk. With my left hand holding the leash, and my right hand on my gun in my coat pocket, anyone looking for trouble would have their choice of dealing with me, or the dog. Actually, the dog was definitely the greater threat, as he was a stray my GF took in, and he was intensely protective of everyone in his new family circle. Either way, a BG would certainly be on the losing end of any encounter.
But other than that, I've always carried using either a belt holster, inside the waistband holster, or else a shoulder holster. It didn't much matter what the gun weighed. Using a holster was just more practical, and comfortable as well.

[MrTuffPaws]

People pocket carry all of the time. There are entire lines of pocket holsters around just for that purpose. For me, 23 ounces in the pocket is a no go. It's too darn heavy and makes the gun feel far bulkier that it really is. 17 ounces is far better. 12.5 would be less than the average wallet and would basically make the gun fell like it wasn't there. It is really amazing what a few ounces can do.

[DawgFvr]

I find I carry the 642 in my right front pocket with a Mika hoster more than any other weapon. Damn but I wish Ruger would cast a light weight model to compete with the S&W...say in .327 mag?

[fletcher]

It's not straight magnesium, of course, but a magnesium alloy of some sort. Probably aluminum-magnesium if I had to guess. Don't worry about it oxidizing/exploding ;)

[tsidorus]

http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=G2850029ULMG

280.54

-of course they dont have any yet... if the price is truly close to this... I think we have a winner.

-anybody know if taurus will sell you a bobbed hammer?

-Tsi

[Quoheleth]

In powder form magnesium wants to oxidize... but then, so does aluminum (which will, in fact, also burn as a powder). Magnesium alloys have been used in armored vehicles, the transmissions of the VW Beetles, motorcycles, etc

In the "Trivia Pursuit" category, steel will also burn. Take a piece of the finest grade of steel wool, "fluff" it out, and then place a burning match under it. It WILL burn.

It's like trying to light a log on fire with a match. The log won't burn because of surface area. Now, take that log and split it down and then take one stick and shred it for kindling. THAT'll burn! Why? Surface area.

These uberraremetal guns aren't pure; they are a hybred of metals - enough so that they won't burn anyway. In today's tort-happy climate, do you really think gun manufacturers attorneys would allow them to make flaming pistols?

Q

[19-3Ben]

I'm not asking this to be argumentative or condescending, but why would anyone carry a handgun in their pocket?

I work in an office (interning right now for school credit), where the common attire is khakis/slacks and a tucked in button-down shirt with tie.
My normal rig is an IWB, but of course, if I wear that here, I am exposed. Since my employment might be jeopardized by an exposed handgun, the only logical place for me to keep one would be in my pocket. Sure it has disadvantages, but at least I would have one on me right?

(I don't have a pocket gun, and don't carry on the job. I'm just saying that someone in my postion might NEED to carry in a pocket. and it is certainly more accessible than an ankle rig!)

P.S- I'm also looking forward to the SHOT show to see if we get an update from Taurus about this gun now that they've had another year to develop it!!!

[MrTuffPaws]

-anybody know if taurus will sell you a bobbed hammer?

They will, but I think they consider it a "fitted" part, so you would have to send the gun into the factory for installation and fitting.

[MrTuffPaws]

In the "Trivia Pursuit" category, steel will also burn.

Yep. It is great for starting fires. You can use a flashlight battery to start it burning too. Stretch it out and hold it to the battery leads. I hear it even burns damp, but I have not tried it.

If I didn't keep a magnesium fire starter in the trunk, I would carry steel wool.

[MrTuffPaws]

BTW, I can't find this gun on Taurus' web site. The only place I can find anything on it is from gunblast's shot show 2007 coverage.

[ExplEngineer]

First, I have to admit that after spending some time with my newly acquired Taurus Judge I am pleasantly surprised with the quality of the firearms. I am a traditionalist and it was not without some trepidation that I "left the tracks" and decided that I'd make an exception in that this particular revolver is the perfect combination of a "by the bed" home defense firearm and a "snake gun" to carry with me off-roading in the G-wagen. AZ is rather heavily populated by rattlesnakes and while I'm big on live and let live, in the event of a confrontation, I'd rather just be done with them. Many times I find myself on the ground, in an awkward position, and it is equally likely that I would need to fire from a suboptimal body position at a persistant viper. Not much time to take careful aim and shoot and the flexiblity of this revolver is a big positive point for me.

In line with what I perceive as increased quality of Taurus firearms as a result of a competitive market, their firearms come with a lifetime warranty. After reading the terms of that warranty that accompanied my Judge it appears (no one can be certain until they have the misfortune of actually having to send a firearm in for warranty repairs) it is reasonable and I suspect that they must actually anticipate having to abide by it and to repair or replace their firearms in the event of a covered failure. This is important because any time that you address "bobbing" a hammer you do more than simply cut the back off of the hammer. In this instance as I interpret it, any such modification unless done by Taurus would void the warranty on the firearm.

The voiding of a warranty may seem like a minor thing, unless or until you are faced with some sort of legal action based upon the use and/or discharge of this revolver. Aside from the product liablity issues that will clearly no longer be subject to defense by Taurus, you will need to be able to defend not only the action that you have taken by modifiying the firearm, but to defend against any allegations that the modification of the firearm did not have a causal relationship to the outcome. FIRST, NO I AM NOT IN THE ANTI-GUN CAMP, I AM COMMITTED TO UNFETTERED CONCEAL AND CARRY, WITH NO REQUIREMENT FOR ANY "PERMIT" AS THIS IS A RIGHT AND UNLESS FORFEITED BY SOME CRIMINAL ACTION THAT HAS RESULTED IN A PRIOR CONVICTION OF A FELONY OFFENSE IT IS UNIVERSAL. I BELIEVE, AS SEEMS TO BE THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS IN VT (& ONLY VT AT THIS TIME) THAT ANY PERSON HAS A RIGHT TO CARRY A FIREARM, CONCEALED OR OTHERWISE WITHOUT A "NOTE FROM THEIR MOTHER" PERMISSION SLIP IN THE FORM OF A "CONCEAL & CARRY PERMIT".

Now that that is out of the way, take notice of the fact that those of us who believe as we do are not the constiuency of the "plaintiff's attorneys" who thrive on suing any armed indvidual for almost anything that they do that involves the use of the firearm. Though not unique to this discussion of bobbing the hammer on this model of Taurus, when one begins to consider doing so I would suggest that you begin to consider things such as this. You might not like it, might not agree with it, but believe me, shoot someone, even in self-defense and you can count on being scrutinized by advocates of your target with the goal of making role-reversal a reality, and you the defendant rather than the defender.

I would think that for the same reasons, product liablity litigation, engineering and design considerations and the litiguous nature of the (anti-gun segment of) the American public, Taurus will be reluctant to modify their product by "bobbing" the hammer. Taurus is a mass manufacturer of "commodity" type firearms and its market niche is not the same as some of the other manufacturers that most of us are familiar with in the firearms community. Do you ever remember hearing about a Taurus firearm that had been sent through the "Taurus Custom Gun Shop". No special engravers, no custom gunsmiths, simply assembly line technicians who while competent at assembling the parts into a firearm their relationship to being custom gunsmiths is analogous to that of a worker on the Nissan factory line in Smyrna, TN to a NASCAR engine mechanic. If anyone can (recently) get Taurus to modify a firearm that they have purchased I really would like to hear about it.

All in all, with these revolvers, I submit one is best served by either buying because you like it as it comes out of the box because that is probably the way you will carry it.

One more thing, 19-3Ben, I'm not sure how loose your Khakis are, or if they are some brand with a built in holster, but in my Khakis I'm not sure how I would comfortably conceal a revolver in either the front, or rear pockets. Not only would the profile be visble but the wear on the material would also become obvious after only a short period of carriage. No, it is not as accessible as an ankle holster, and I don't advocate the use of an ankle holster it is just one "field expedient" way of having my firearm with me in certain circumstances, as is one of those ubiquitous pouches that you see people wearing over their shorts (many of which have internal modifications specifically to be used as a holster, some even with straps for an extra magazine for a pistol). If you like it in your pocket, think you can carry it sufficiently concealed for the environment you will be working in, and that it is readly accessible please feel free to carry it that way. I wouldn't do that with anything larger than my North American Arms .22lr five shot, which really isn't the best sefl-defense weapon but it is better than no weapon at all, but that is just me. As I said, I'm old fashioned enough to believe that the 2nd Amendment is individual in its guarentee of the right to keep and bear arms and you just keep them and bear them as best pleases you without causing unnecessary alarm by those who share your environment.

[tsidorus]

Taurus sells compact revolvers (jframe) with DAO hammers so the question was not will Taurus bob my hammer but will they sell me the already DAO replacement. Then I can swap back and forth. IF I have to remove the regular one first then send it in to have the DAO installed.. No problem. As to pocket carry... jacket pockets are easy. And litigation wise, I dont fear a legit shoot. If its not legit then so be it and I deserve what I get. I dont know how many times Ive heard all the what if stories about modded handguns or reloads be litigation issues... SHow me one case that this pertains to and was a legit shoot and then I may think of it as an issue.

-Tsi