Affordable Red Dots?

I started this to avoid hijacking EdLaver's night sight thread. I am trying to find an affordable red dot for my 5.56. I almost bought a BSA this weekend because it was used and very cheap but a couple of people said that it wouldn't last on a AR. I played with a friend's BSA over the weekend and was happy with the sight picture and brightness, I'm just a little worried about the durability. I know that you get what you pay for but I can't afford to run tens of thousands of rounds per year through my gun anyway. What are your experiences with red dots for less than 100 bucks or so? I know that some have had really good experiences with the BSA's so don't just post that you have a good one, tell us how many rounds out of what type of gun so I can have an idea if it would be worth the chance.
I appreciate all of the advice.

Take a look at the Burris Speed Dot.

Burris XTS-135 is an excellent inexpensive red dot.

http://www.burrisoptics.com/tactical2.html

I use something over a dozen of the cheap BSA Red Dot sights on every thing from 22LR to 12ga shotguns.

I have no idea how many rounds I shoot in what, but I can't remember the last time a BSA failed me.

Would I bet that this BSA wouldn't quit the next time I shoot the gun?
No.

Would I bet a $400 Aimpoint won't quit the next time I use it?
No.

But if the BSA fails I'm only out $30.:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Ithicapistolgrip.jpg

I have read many good things about an Aimpoint Comp ML2 copy available on E-Bay....I have no personal experience with them but have read more than enough threads to the positive on these. Go to E-Bay and type in Aimpoint copy in the search.

There's also the middle ground...UltraDots run from about $125 for a 1" tube, fixed dot size up to about $180 for 30mm, adjustable dots...100% lifetime guarantee to the original owner. They're far and away the most common for slide mounted 45s in Bullseye.

The distributor is Larry Carter's guns and he handles any and all repair work...looks like several models are on sale right now.

http://www.larrysguns.com/ultradot.asp
/bryan

M2, that's what I'm talking about!
I will check out these Burris, UltraDots, and Aimpoint ML2 dots in the morning (on company time). :evil: :cool:
Thanks a whole lot guys!

Take a look at the Burris Speed Dot.

+1 my dad has one on his berreta storm and it works perfectly.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=459296
I have 3 of these millett red dots. They have a 3moa dot which isn't too big. If you don't crank the brightness up too much the dot is crisp. I have one on a keltec su16, one on a sks and one that is going on a saiga. Good red dot for $60 right now on sale. Mark

http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/highresimage?saleitemid=459296

Well since the aimpoint is more than an Eotech, it's out. The Burris is probably well worth it but still a little too pricey for what I need. Same with the Ultra Dot really. I'll probably snatch up the $15 BSA for this summer then get myself a Burris or a UltraDot for my birthday.... :) Thanks a lot for all of the suggestions guys!

John Doe,

I found the website. I also ordered one myself to put on my wife's Kel-Tec SU-16. I belong to an Uzi Forum and there's several guys running these on sub-guns and claim they hold up just fine. A lot of the high-end stuff is made in China anyways, so here's a more affordable solution....I have no direct experience with these, but if you PM someone over at the Uzi users group, you may get some first hand experience. I'll have experience soon, as mine is being shipped. Check out this link:

AIMPOINT CLONE (http://stores.ebay.com/SuperLight-Pro-2006)

Thanks Mass Mark, I opened the link to find a list, is this the one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/NIB-Auto-Bright-Tactical-4-pattern-red-dot-reflex-sight_W0QQitemZ270094735629QQcategoryZ66827QQcmdZViewItem
Looks to good to be true really. I can't believe that this thing will even work much less hold up for that price. I really hope I'm wrong about that. Forgive me if I picked the wrong one, and virtually grab me by the face and point it in the right direction. :o
I have also wondered about red dot magnification (long term want, not necessary yet). Looks like they make some generic magnifiers, are there compatibility issues from one manufacturer to the next? I would only want about 1.5x or 2x, nothing really strong.
Also, does anyone make provisions for being able to use iron sights if a battery dies? My buddy's camp 9 has the dot up high enough to use the irons without touching anything, pretty cool.
Thanks
john

I have a Clonepoint. Bought it from Jacky over on ARFCOM. Slapped it on my SU-16, and damned if it didn't hold zero. I was pleasantly surprised. There's a bit of a bluish tint to the lenses--other than that, the scope does what it's supposed to do. I don't expect it to hold up to harsh, professional use, but then again, it's only my plinker SU-16, so it perfect for what it is. About $65 shipped, IIRC.

The general consensus over on ARFCOM is that the scope works and is a cheap alternative, but for a working gun, get the real deal.

Check out the Tasco PDP3. Not a bad red dot for the money ($80-$100). I have a Sightron Red-Dot on my AR-15, but it will run you about $200.

http://www.bushnell.com/general/riflescopes_trophy_73-0134.cfm

I had an older version of this I got for $70...it works fine, 1 m0a dot, iirc. I had it on my AR for years before I got my eotech, now it's on my camp 45.

You have a choice of 4 reticles to dial in. Just know that the you need to pick a reticle, sight it in and keep it there. The POA is ever so slightly different from one reticle to the next.

johndoe1027

Also, does anyone make provisions for being able to use iron sights if a battery dies? .

If possible I always try to keep the iron sights usable. I'm not worried about the battery though. Just paying a little attention can prevent being caught with a dead battery. The only trouble I have is when I forget to turn off the sight before putting the gun away.
I mostly want the iron sights usable so when I swap Red Dots or scopes I can roughly sight them in with the iron sight.

For instance this BSA PD30 (out of production) mounts so low on the Kel Tec PLR pistol the iron sights can be seen through the Red Dot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/PLRGreenlaser2.jpg

And with this AK see thru mount the iron sights can be seen and used.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/AK75rdpistol.jpg

I have a BSA I bought for $30. I've used it on my AK in the rain, snow, dropped it a couple times. and it's held zero and always works.

that burris looks like a great affordable Aimpoint duplicate. I might have to check it out.

where can i get one for 30 bucks

I've used and abused several BSA red dots for years now. Durability is the one thing I give them high marks for. I'll never buy another though. All of mine have huge amounts of parallax error, the dot gets fuzzy and imprecise near the outer edges, and the coating is too dark to be useful in all but bright light. There are a LOT of better options out there in my opinion.

One of my new cheapo favorites is Leapers. The optics quality is a light year above BSA, there is no parallax error and the dots are precise and clear. I'm torture testing 2 of them now to see how well they hold up, but they seem very solidly built. Leapers used to make junk optics, but they've picked up the quality considerably in the last couple generations of their optics.

I see Truglo makes some nice affordable red dots too.

where can i get one for 30 bucks

I just ordered 6 more of these $20 BSA 30mm sights (the same thing thats on my PLR and AK shown above.

Problem is the only ones left were silver with the dial setting or black with a push button switch. (out of production)

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/search/search.asp?r=MainHeader+KW+Box&a=browse&k=BSA


Don't let me influence you into buying anything.
Sure as you do you'll get the worst piece of crap BSA ever made.:(

I'm not pushing the BSA, it just happens to be the cheapest sight that I have experience with. I think I'm going to try out a couple others that have been mentioned.

With any decent Red Dot you can expect to get pretty good accuracy.

This is a couple targets shot with my PLR pistol and BSA. Not too great but you get the idea.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/PLRnewRedDot.jpg

100 yards. Sitting.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/PLRtarget100ydsRedDot.jpg

100 yards. Standing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/100yardsPLR1-1.jpg

Hey John Doe,

This is the one folks are talking about.

Aimpoint Clone (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Version-Aimpoint-Red-Dot-Sight-w-QD-Sight-mount_W0QQitemZ270102828421QQcategoryZ66827QQcmdZViewItem)

I ordered it this morning on the "Buy It Now". If it works as advertised and as I've read from the Uzi guys, this will be 50-bucks well spent - comes with an ARMS copy throwlever as well...phenominal.

Ok, I'll admit. I am scared of that sight.:uhoh:

It comes with a 7 day warranty.

Granted, I am an Aimpoint dealer and law enforcement/military supplier, but I am open to a good deal just like the rest of you.

The saying "You get what you pay for" is still said because it is true! My advice is that if you can't afford to buy at least the Burris Speed Dot (the only clone we stand behind) save until you can.

Now, some of you may be saying that this Talon Arms guy is an idiot and a gun snob. You would be right and wrong. :)

I am also "strick909" on AR15.com and the author of the Tacpoint FAQ from almost two years ago. (still tacked in the optics section)
I used, but not abused a Tacpoint for right around a year before it died for good. I defended that little sight against a lot of serious bad mouthing for a very long time even before I posted that thread (and that was before I joined Talon Arms by the way). But looking back with 20/20 hindsight, the sight did not last as long as my higher quality gear has and the value did not prove "worth it."

Just my 2 cents, but as always Caveat Emptor.

And if anybody wants a used Tacpoint cheap, send me an email. :D

For my Marlin 1894c i bought a Bushnell 1x30 Trophy. ~$100. Has 4 reticules (2 dot sizes a cross and large circle w/ dot). Has 11 intesity levels. The batteries have lasted very well and I have forgotten to turn them off. Also the batteries are cheap. Comes with rings. I like it.

Has anybody got any experience with this reflex sight?

http://www.bushnell.com/general/rifl...hy_73-0134.cfm

I had an older version of this I got for $70...it works fine, 1 m0a dot, iirc. I had it on my AR for years before I got my eotech, now it's on my camp 45.

I have two of these. One is on my Marlin Camp 45 and the other on my Rock Ola M1 Carbine. I've been pleased with them.

I'll throw in another good word for the Millett red dots. I've had one for a couple of years and it has worked like a champ.

Word of caution on inexpensive electronic dot scopes. They may hold zero, but they often have horrendous parallax problems. Stick the scope on a stand and move your head around and the dot wanders all over the target. That shouldn't happen! Seemed to be particularly noticeable with BSAs and TruGlow 30mm units. Maybe the ones I looked at were atypical, but they turned me off of inexpensive electronic dots.

I've had TASCO and Bushnell and TruGlo red dots as well as Aimpoints. I'd still rather buy a used Aimpoint than a new anythingelse.

I took the BSA off my 10/22 once and mounted it to an AR while I was waiting for a EOTech to arrive. It did not hold zero for more than 40 rounds. I wonder what the legalities are of those companies that sell clonepoints and bogus K.A.C mounts and such? I does alot to shake my confidence in buying a legitimate product. If I were Aimpoint, K.A.C, or A.R.M.S I would seek legal action pronto against the makers of those products.

Whoa, I let my thread get away from me, sorry. I was visiting the pops in ICU at the VA last night (scary place :uhoh: ). Let me try to catch up here.
M2, thanks for all of the pics and advice. That really helps a lot. Nice targets too. :) And I'll take anyone's advice especially when it's someone that has used several of one item. I'd rather hear that "a few of mine have been fine" as opposed to "the one I bought sucked, never again". Simple batting average to me.

geekWithA.45, I think I looked at that one yesterday and I was very impressed. Thanks for the link.

I like the idea of being able to use the irons though the red dot to save a little space and make the rifle a bit thinner. I'm always afraid that the only time I'll ever need my gun is the only time the battery will die on me. I hope I never need it but I will still make provisions anyway.

jlbraun, you are temping me but I did notice the parralax problems that Legionnaire was referring to. I thought that was okay since the dot stayed on target but did move a little when I moved my head side to side. Somehow I knew to test that before I knew to test that... :scrutiny:

rbernie, I think that will be the way for me to go, still affordable but a step up from the BSA style dots. I might also get the used BSA for the Hi-Point 9mm carbine that MAY be joining the family soon... :crosses fingers:

Plink said it in a way that makes me not want to get the BSA for the AR at least, maybe the range plinker will be okay with it though. Thanks Plink. I like to hear a balanced review. Makes me feel like the whole story is being told.

Mass Mark, thanks for the link, looks good (I like the flip up covers). I wish selectable reticles were more reliable, I like options wherever I can get them. I assume this is the same one Talon refers to. :scratches head, looks more and more confused:

All in all I am thrilled with the advice I've received. Thanks a bunch everyone! I am more confused than ever but I will digest it all soon enough. I have a lot of ammo to buy before the red dot gets mounted anyway. I want to get good with the irons first then I can really see the difference the dot will make. :D

"One of my new cheapo favorites is Leapers. The optics quality is a light year above BSA, there is no parallax error and the dots are precise and clear. I'm torture testing 2 of them now to see how well they hold up, but they seem very solidly built. Leapers used to make junk optics, but they've picked up the quality considerably in the last couple generations of their optics."

Mike,
Please send me an email or pm telling which scope, on the Leapers web site, you're talking about? Thanks.
Tom