I like to know if this pistol is SA/DA or DAO.


PDA






efeng9622
March 27, 2007, 10:44 PM
I am going to buy a pistol as my second pistol, but I like to recognize a pistol which belongs to Single action /Double action both ( SA/DA)or Double action only (DAO) by myself because I don’t like the DAO pistol. I hope someone here can indicate if I am right or not after you read my point as following.
If a pistol has a external hammers, when I coke it , the hammer will be pulled fully to rear . I think it is SA/DA pistol because when I shoot it, the first shot will be SA and then will be DA.
If a pistol has no external hammers , I think it is DAO .
I don’t like DAO because my first pistol is a DAO, the trigger
Is really heavy. I had to sell it.

Thanks!.

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Ala Dan
March 27, 2007, 10:51 PM
The traditional DA/SA pistol such as SIG's, Beretta's, some H&K's, etc.
will have a double-action first shot capeability; followed by single-action
follow up shots. In a DAO only pistol, the hammer raises and lowers each
time the trigger is pulled. DAO weapons have a tendency to have rather
long trigger pulls; thus requiring more effort on the part of the shooter
to stay on target. Decockers having absolutely nothing to do with the
amount of effort required to pull the trigger; as they safely decock a
"HOT weapon", by lowering the hammer without firing the cartridge
that rest beneath the hammer~! ;) :D

fattsgalore
March 27, 2007, 10:51 PM
I wont get technical.

Striker=Glock; XD; M&P; ETC... (Clicky top pen) Spring loaded firing pin.

Is it you don't like DAO anything or just these modern striker fired guns.
Cause if that's the point I'm with you. I want a Hammer and manual safety.

MikePGS
March 27, 2007, 10:54 PM
I think it is SA/DA pistol because when I shoot it, the first shot will be SA and then will be DA.

Are you sure you don't mean DA/SA? What kind of gun is it?

Lonestar49
March 27, 2007, 10:57 PM
...

Ok, if we're talking about a semi-auto pistol, then yes, it has a DA/SA mode trigger.

Meaning, like Sig's, Beretta's, CZ's for example, all have an external Hammers and are DA/SA triggers.

When the gun is chambered, and the hammer is down, it's in DA mode, long pull of trigger to fire the gun, which then automatically cocks the hammer for the SA pull for any shots thereafter, or you can manually pull back the trigger (cock- it,) and be rdy for SA mode/pull of the trigger.

But, you can also use the decocker, with a round in the chamber, and put it back into DA mode. Just don't use your thumb and trigger to release it back to DA mode manually. No NO.. Always use the decocker for that.


DA mode, means double action.. full pull of trigger, with hammer down, to all the way back and fire. Then it goes into :

SA mode, means single action.. hammer back, short trigger pull to fire

Normal trigger pull weights are aprox: 10lbs for DA trigger pull and 4.5.lbs for SA trigger pull.


Good luck



LS

Geronimo45
March 27, 2007, 11:00 PM
It's DA/SA - first shot (if the gun is decocked, meaning the hammer is on top of the firing pin, IOW in the position in which it is closest to the muzzle) is double action. Double action means the hammer (or striker) is cocked by the trigger. Single action happens when the hammer/striker is already cocked and pulled fully to the rear (towards the user).

A DA/SA gun will have a DA first shot, and after the round has been fired, a SA second, third, fourth, etc. shot. If a round fails to ignite, the hammer will (naturally) be on the firing pin, and the next trigger pull to ignite this possible dud round will be double action.

A gun with no visible hammer may be DAO, DA/SA, or a Glockish action (sort of a mix of DA and SA - the striker/hammer is only partially cocked. The trigger fully cocks and releases the hammer). A Glockish action should have a lesser trigger pull than a DAO gun.

"If a pistol has a decoking lever but has no outside hammer , I think it is DAO"
May be, may not be. You have to test the gun yourself.

efeng9622
March 27, 2007, 11:05 PM
O, sorry ,maybe it is DA/SA,( Double and Single both) I am looking for a pistol around $300-$350. Ruger or S & W. I want a external Hammer and manual safety.
My first pistol is S & W 9VE. the trigger is really unconfortable.

MikePGS
March 27, 2007, 11:18 PM
Hmmm what caliber and that sort of thing are you looking for? and do you just want a DA/SA or would you consider a Single Action as well? Also what do you want to use it for? sorry for the questions, but with a little more info i think you'll probably get more precise advice in regards to what you exactly want.

efeng9622
March 27, 2007, 11:55 PM
I am looking for a 9mm DA/SA pistol because I think I can learn more things from it than a Single action handgun. I have a DA/SA revolver already. I just shoot them at range.

Thanks!

never_summer
March 28, 2007, 12:02 AM
my sig p220 and walther ppk/s are da/sa, but when i load a mag and sling shot the slide its already in sa. I rarely ever shoot da with a da/sa gun. My sig p226 is dao and has a pretty decent trigger pull which is better than my p220 or ppk/s, and my 1911 has a sa trigger pull that is better than my sa on my p220 or ppk/s. Id pick a gun based on which you like and are most comftorable with, go rent some guns at the range and have fun

possum
March 28, 2007, 02:07 AM
da/sa when the hammer is foward it will be a long first pull, and subsequent shots will be with a shorter sa pull when the hammer is back. this can be avoided by coking the hammer like you said then you can fire the same sa trigger everytime.

i think you should really look at other dao models. the sigma is a horrible example to base your opinion off of. there triggers are horrible. check out the xd's, glocks, sig dak triggers h&k lem triggers, kahr which is like a da revolver, s&w m&p etc. they are the same trigger pull each time. my first dao expereince was with a sigma and i am so glad that i tried others, because if i would have went away from dao i would have been missing out on many great firearms. i own 3 dao and 1 da/sa.

i prefer the dao myself, it is consistant and there isn't any manual safeties and decokers to worry with.

MPanova
March 28, 2007, 02:27 AM
You don't have to have a hammer to have that DA/SA with decock ;) Check out the new Taurus 24/7OSS

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=508&category=Pistol

or if you wait a little bit longer you could get this one

http://www.taurususa.com/whatsnew/pistols.cfm

PPGMD
March 28, 2007, 10:57 AM
The Walther P99 AS is another Striker fired DA/SA pistol with a decocker. I personally like the trigger group on this pistol also.

The H&k USP series is a hammer based DA/SA design if you get the right varient. IMO the USP is one of the best pistols ever made, they just fit like a glove and are a joy to fire. If only they had the Walther AS trigger group I would be in heaven.

efeng9622
March 28, 2007, 10:59 AM
Thanks everybody’s advices .My question is if I go to a store and find a pistol I like, How can I recognize it is DA/SA or it is DAO without drying fire it or checkthe book? Is there a way to check it by myself or I have to ask ? Most bosses doesn’t like the customer to dry fire his gun. I know the DAO’s the hammer raises and lowers each time when trigger is pulled. If DAO’s hammer can’t be pulled fully to the rear ( towards the user) ? I haven’t seen a DAO has an external hammers.

Thanks!

Ala Dan
March 28, 2007, 11:05 AM
As it has all the features (hammer, decocker, and manual safety) that you
desire~! :scrutiny: :cool: :D

never_summer
March 28, 2007, 12:41 PM
if its got a hammer then just pull the hammer back and if it locks its a da/sa

for a striker fired gun it might have a decocker, but i think you would have to dry fire it. If it has a decocker like the p99 you could do that then pull the slide back like half way (dont know much about striker fired guns) and the trigger will move back slightly and you will here it click into sa.

poppy
March 28, 2007, 01:13 PM
efang I have a DA/SA revolver already
I would surely like to see this one. :scrutiny:
Most bosses doesn’t like the customer to dry fire his gun.
All modern pistols that I am aware of are not harmed by dry firing. If a seller is not willing to let you dry fire then they don't know much about firearms.

never_summer
if its got a hammer then just pull the hammer back and if it locks its a da/sa Not if it has a manual safety and it is engaged. For example on my Beretta 92FS which is DA/SA with a manual safety, when you decock the gun with the decock lever it engages the safety. This is likely the condition of the pistol laying in the case. If the seller hands you the pistol with the slide locked back and you release the slide, the hammer will follow the slide into the decocked position, again assuming that the safety is engaged. If you pull the hammer back without disengaging the safety it will not lock back.

efang, It sounds to me that you need some more basic education before looking for a pistol of any kind. Keep asking question.

efeng9622
March 28, 2007, 02:55 PM
You are right, I really don't know much knowledges about pistol and also have no more chances to practice it. right now I just want to find a basic pistol which is reliable and can fit my budget.
I can practice it first. I believe some questions will go away after practicing. but I will continue to post my question here .

Thanks

PPGMD
March 28, 2007, 03:11 PM
If it has a decocker like the p99 you could do that then pull the slide back like half way (dont know much about striker fired guns) and the trigger will move back slightly and you will here it click into sa.

On the P99 it's about a half an inch. Also on the P99 the trigger does not move back, thats the feature of the Anti-Stress trigger. There is no tension, but you still have to move the trigger the entire length of travel for the first shot after the slide is used to cock it.

If the trigger is pulled to the SA point, but not fired it will stay at the SA point.

Sistema1927
March 28, 2007, 04:37 PM
Here is what I think (for what it is worth):

I am not sure that you know enough to know what you would like or dislike. I recommend that you rent a few different pistols and try them out before deciding what to purchase. In the end it won't matter much what the action type is if it is a pistol that you can confidently and reliably use.

poppy
March 28, 2007, 05:33 PM
While I agree with Sistema1927 in principle, I have never rented a pistol and don't intend to start. Here's why: I only buy pistols that I really want and will never sell or I only buy pistols that I know I can get my money back if not satisfied.

I'm not suggesting that renting before you buy is not a good idea. It is a good idea; e.g. I would not buy a new or used car without a test drive. The main problem I see with renting is that you will never see the variety that you may want.

I see no problem sticking with your stated criteria, DA/SA 9mm $300-350 range use only. You don't want to rent a Sig and then be disappointed in a Ruger.

I would suggest that you buy a good used Ruger or CZ or any brand that you know you can get your money back on. That way, you can sell it and try another brand without wasting money. Doing a search on this forum will yield plenty of info on value priced used pistol models.

BrennanKG
March 28, 2007, 05:53 PM
efang,

I didn't see this point answered, so I thought I'd toss this in:
If a pistol has a decocking lever but has no outside hammer , I think it is DAO.
Unless I'm mistaken, the presence of a decocker is evidence the handgun in question is DA/SA. A DAO handgun doesn't have a decocker because the hammer doesn't stay in the cocker position.



Let us know what you get,
B.

MikePGS
March 28, 2007, 06:32 PM
If you have questions about whether or not a particular gun is DA/SA or not, just ask the clerk. Chances are they'll be looking to sell you something and would be more than willing to give you some advice. Just explain that your getting started and have a few questions.

Geronimo45
March 28, 2007, 06:45 PM
"the presence of a decocker is evidence the handgun in question is DA/SA."
Generally, that's the case. But with some guns - namely, Walther P99 QA, the decocker does decock the striker - and it's got a Glockish action. Think it's for disassembling the gun safely.

BrennanKG
March 28, 2007, 07:14 PM
Geronimo,

The Walther/SW P99 is an odd bird.

A shooting buddy of mine back in San Diego has had one for years (pre-SW AFAIK). I recall it had a decocker bar high on the rear or the slide. To the best of my recollection it still functioned as a "traditional" DA/SA, although it utilized a striker and could therefore only be brought into SA battery by firing it or otherwise racking the slide.

My memory may be failing me on this, however, and I have ZERO knowledge of how the later P99s were set-up.


Cheers,
B.

Marshall
March 28, 2007, 07:23 PM
Just go buy a Ruger and be done with it. Good first pistol, reliable as all get out and cheap on the pocket.

Geronimo45
March 28, 2007, 07:34 PM
Brennan: The P99's got the AS (DA/SA setup), QA (Glockish trigger), and the DAO options. The AS and QA models both had decockers. The AS button was bigger, easier to access, while the QA was smaller and harder to push - to avoid somebody decocking it by accident.
Your memory ain't a-failin'. It's just that Walther wants the P99 to have more trigger options than Liz Taylor had husbands. :cool:

BrennanKG
March 28, 2007, 07:47 PM
Geronimo,

Thanks for the info.
I'll tell you, I could never get a hang of the Walther's trigger, which led me to the USP (not a great trigger but much more to my liking).




B.

PPGMD
March 28, 2007, 08:59 PM
Meh P99's has as many trigger groups as any other company, heck H&k has 10 USP varients plus the LEM trigger group.

I have a P99c AS 9mm I love it, though my full size pistol will be the Hk USP Tactical .40. I like the overall feel of it, fits in my hand like a glove.

efeng9622
March 28, 2007, 09:53 PM
Hi!
I am sorry to ask a very basic question, where is the " decocker " ? I found I misunderstood . can someone indicate where it is on the pistol?

Thanks!

ugaarguy
March 28, 2007, 10:02 PM
Hi!
I am sorry to ask a very basic question, where the " decocker " is ? I found I misunderstood . can someone indicate where it is on the pistol?
On a SIG-Sauer the decocker is a lever at the front of the grip. On a Ruger, S&W or Beretta the pistol decocks when the the slide mounted safety is engaged. On a HK and many Taurus there's a lever at the back of the grip-frame where up is safe, middle is fire, and down decocks. On the FN FNP & Browning Pro there's a smaller lever at the top back of the grip frame that's pushed down to decock.

BrennanKG
March 29, 2007, 01:01 AM
efang,

I believe the decocker, if any, on Ruger and S&W handguns would be found on the rear of the slide, either left side or both sides.



B.

efeng9622
March 31, 2007, 10:38 PM
Hi,
I just bought a Ruger 89 from a gun show this afternoon, I will shoot it tomorrow
morning to see what happen. I just have a question to POPPY

POPPY ,
I just want to make sure what you said "All modern pistols that I am aware of are not harmed by dry firing." that can be used to Ruger 89 because today
I dry fire my gun a lot of times.


Thanks everybody here.

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