[Ian11]

They're probably illegal to carry concealed or open but can you still own one for home defense?

Any one know the legal ramifications of using one in self defense here in CA particulary in Los Angeles?

[Jim March]

Ya, you CAN own one for home defense I think, but...why? You know what's a lot better and cheaper? A Bokken :). Any martial arts supply house will have 'em. They just ROCK.

ASPs are a big problem beyond just legalities. It's hard to explain, but...cops view police batons, including ASPs, as "the mark of a cop", sort of a "long black badge". They just HATE seeing anybody else with one. It's an emotional reaction. Some of which is easy to understand - some of these guys run into "mentally weird police wanna-bes" known among cops as "strange rangers". If they come out to your burglary call and find you've done a drum solo on the guy with an ASP, screw legalities, they will NOT be your friends.

The LAPD is notorious for this.

For Bokken links and info, see also my posts in this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24899

If you want a shorter one-handed "ASP equivelent", there are also wooden Wakizashi (short swords) that are functionally equivelent but still don't scream out "wanna-be cop".

[Andrew Wyatt]

aluminum tee ball bats work better, IMHO.

[Ian11]

Aww! Screw It. Its my House. My Life.

I'll stick with my Glock 21 or Remington 870 instead. :rolleyes: :o

Thanks anyways:)

[El Tejon]

Ian, I second what Jim said about ASPs and "stranger rangers." We called them "Batmen."

While completely legal to own or carry, the cops always made it a point to tell me that mopey had an ASP in the car. However, I would shrug and nod as I was only concerned that he blew .21 not that he had a metal stick.

[Sir Galahad]

A police officer who uses his emotions to judge legality is a dangerous rogue who should not even possess a security guard "guard card". Will he use emotion to go on when a suspect ceases to resist and is cuffed, yet he doesn't think he's "done" using physical force with the suspect yet? Will he use emotion to judge a rape victim was "asking for it", so to hell with the swab test? Will he use emotion to continue high-speed pursuit of a suspect headed for a school zone when school is letting out? These are the questions that pop into my mind when I see such things as cops using their emotions to judge law. Let's not forget there are also cops who think only they should possess body armor, AR-15s, and even handguns. So, I fail to see the appropriateness of shirking from any legal weapon for fear of the Sheriff of Nottingham taking offense. That's not what this country is supposed to be about. I think some folks on this board are correct when they say some citizens are more equal (and have more rights) than others. I support law enforcement 100% in catching the bad guys. But I draw the line at them making this an "us versus them" seige mentality with me in the "them" category and the police in the "us". I know police have a hard job. But they only make it harder if they alienate the average citizen by treating him like a helot.

[Jim March]

OK.

Y'all know I have a lot of dealings with lawyers, right? Some are close friends, guys either specializing in or sidelining in gun rights law. Good folks.

One of 'em told me a story.

There was this guy, in his early 50s, driving along in a pickup. He was tired, wobbled on the road a bit, got pulled over for DUI. He was sober, explained, got checked a bit. Then the cop happens to spot a baton handle poking out from under the front seat. It was a home-made, just a bit of tape on a stick.

The driver is getting arrested, and he explains that he's got major medical issues going on - previously screwed up shoulders, arthritis, back issues, leg issues, the guy is genuinely not in good health and some of it affects his ability to be pretzeled into cuffs. He's being very polite.

Cop acts all calm, explains he's calling for backup. Couple more cops show, including a supervisor. First cop on scene asks the arrestee to explain about the medical stuff. He does so.

They attacked him.

Not at random. They specifically and systematically assaulted every location where he'd pointed out a weakness.

And THEN they busted and convicted him for felony baton carry.

He didn't walk right for over a year. Some of the damage they did still hasn't healed and it's been about three years since.

Yes, this was in California, and involved sheriff's deputies. I'll withhold naming the department to avoid my lawyer buddy being accused of breaking confidence.

The lead "cop" on the scene has since been fired for brutality in another case.

That's how bad it can get, folks.

:fire:

[JShirley]

Cops are people too, and people can do some bad things. This board fully supports the hard-working peace officer (we have at least 5 on staff), while we absolutely refuse to back illegal aggression toward our citizenry.
Just wanted to make that clear before I ask that we please not let this thread turn into an "us vs them" slam session on LEO.

Thanks, John

[El Tejon]

Sir, I understand, but I'm just reporting what I saw. I could care less what mopey had (unless stolen); I only cared about what mopey was doing.

Reality is never pleasant for some here. It's sort of like me reporting on Problem #2 and the GSCs claim I'm against self-defense or something. Nope, just telling you what you're in for. Be advised.:)

[Sir Galahad]

El Tejon, I'm not attacking you or what you said. Or Jim or what he said. What I'm saying is that if people allow others (police or otherwise) to step over the law, then those persons will continue to do so. I know reality very well, thanks. :D I also know that if police who are out of bounds are not called on it, they can get worse until someone dies or is seriously injured as a result. People who have read some of my posts in the Legal&Political section know that I support police 100% WHEN they are right. In the case of the illegal alien who killed the police officer who struck him with a flashlight for jerking away during a search, I support the cop 100%. I see a need for police and I see a need for police to be able to whack someone in the noggin if they get combative and I see the need for police to shoot to kill people shooting at them OR even coming at them with a knife or a bludgeon. I see a need for police to ensure their safety by asking if there are weapons in the vehicle or upon a person and being able to secure those weapons, if need be, during the course of interaction with the citizen. What I do not support is police attempts to enforce de facto bans against weapons they don't "think" a citizen should possess. I do not support police getting physical or verbally abusive with citizens who have done nothing to them and are not breaking a WRITTEN law. Police such as that are actually criminals themselves, for by using their authority to institute certain things not covered by a law, they are breaking laws themselves that cover abuse of authority, violations of civil rights, unlawful detainment, a de facto violation of certain Constitutional Amendments (no cruel or unusual punishment, unlawful search and seizure), and many other provisions that protect citizenry against abuse of authority by police. It is not up to an individual officer to decide what is or is not appropriate in his own eyes by his judgement. It is up to the LAW to decide that and, if a violation of thatlaw has taken place, a COURT to render final judgement and assess fines an/or penalties for breaking that law. The police officers job is uphold and enforce the law. The duty to protect the public cannot be invoked if a person is carrying a legal weapon in a legal context in a legal area to do so. The dangers of police enforcing personal prejudices against citizenry are paramount and of the utmost importantance to be addressed and stopped. If people bend to the will of these police officers, they bend their neck to a yoke of a tyrannical act by persons abusing authority entrusted to those officers by the very people they are abusing. The police exist to serve the public, not themselves. Police officers amy not, as in some nations, levy and collect fines on their own, not may they mete judgements and penalties for breaking the law. Using deadly force to stop a criminal from an act that endangers the public or the officer(s) is wholly justified. But acting as a court, indeed, acting as a whole legislative body (who must first PASS a law for it to be a law) is nothing short of tyranny. First, that legislative body is elected by the people. The officer himself is not elected by the people and therefore cannot make laws of his own chosing. (Except in cases of things like departments' heads like the sheriff, for example. Even so, that person is elected to ENFORCE, not MAKE law.) In some cases, local law enforcement may have authority to make an ordinance, but the individual officer does not have that authority and, usually, the ordinance still must be voted on by a city council. These are the issues I am addressing here.

[kirby2jr]

I like to carry an extra piece of thick pvc, approx 18 inches long in my car. Why do I have it with me - I am fixing the sprinklers in my yard and need a comparison when I go to the hardware store. Will easily break bones and legal.

[M-Cameron]

im still a fan of my 3 d cell flashlight.......still gets dark in my neck of the woods last i checked.........

[CWL]

There are better HD weapons than ASPs, all legal. Use one of those.

Sometimes people get too hung-up on wanting to get "gear".

[oldbanjo]

I have a piece of !/2" PVC pipe around 5" long to put in my hand, so I won't break my hand if I need to throw a punch. I've started reading about the batons that some people on this site or using, looks to me like the ones from Cheaper Than Dirt could get you in more trouble than you can get out of. Read some of the comments. A gun is safer.

[John C]

Just to clear up a misconception: Possession of a "billy" is a felony in California (Section 12020 (a) (1) PC). There are no exceptions for self defense. You really don't want to get caught carrying an ASP in California, even in your house.

-John

[Flobert]

Crescent wrench?

[Rexster]

I carry an approved, personally-purchased 21" ASP at work, and virtually never extend the thing, because my PD-issued hardwood baton is better. For the private citizen, especially within the homestead, there are better alternatives that are neither illegal nor the mark of a police wannabe, such as a stout walking stick or Louisville Slugger. If my commanders see me with a walking stick, I might find myself in front of a medical review board, to make sure I can pass a physical exam and agility test. (They would be glad to make me retire, in this era of budget-trimming, and while I am still quite lean and relatively fit, I do have a bad knee and bad shoulder.)

I won't speculate on CA law, but keep in mind that unless a specific exception is made, a club is a club is a club, collapsible or not. Substitute your own jurisdiction's word for what Texas law calls a club, in the preceding sentence.

[Hot brass]

Why spend that kind of money on something that you question its legality?

I keep a pick handle close by, if I can not get to the fire power.

[meef]

Holy thread necromancy!

Anybody notice the original postings were growing mold?

I think the OP got his question answered.

Years ago.

:cool: