Best Piston-Driven AR style weapon


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Gaiudo
March 28, 2007, 07:08 PM
I've moved into the market for a piston-driven AR-15. What are the options, and the pros/cons, of the new piston guns that are coming out?

A few of those I have heard mention:

P.O.F
Leitner-Wise
SIG's 556
HK 416 (not on the civilian market yet, I believe... if ever?)
Colt has a piston upper out as well, I believe.

Opinions?

I've looked long and hard at the P.O.F, and am tempted. Any reasons not to go with it?

Thanks,

Nick

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Bailey Guns
March 28, 2007, 07:26 PM
I own a Bushmaster gas piston upper. I've only put about 300 rounds through it so far but I absolutely love it. It's worked perfectly and makes cleaning the gun a breeze.

Don't have any experience with any of the others.

The Bushmaster is also easy to get.

Dave Markowitz
March 28, 2007, 07:59 PM
You might want to do a search over on Arfcom.

Also, the SIG 556 is not an AR design. It's a highly refined Kalashnikov.

TalonArms_R
March 28, 2007, 08:07 PM
Bushmaster should be on your list.


Here are a few things I can weigh in on.

First, you can forget the HK. Even on LE letterhead they take a year to get.

Second, don't touch a SIG 556 until they fix the issues plauguing the first generation. The top rails are out of spec on most units.

Colt may end up like the HK. Tough to get because of high demand low build quantity.

POF has gotten better recently. The first ones they released were hit or miss. We are considering bringing them online.

L.W. I have not seen. They have had a lot of problems over the last two years, but they may be getting things together now.

I also know that LMT is working on something but they are at least another 6 months out.


Of everything on the market right now, Bushmaster would be my first choice. We have one on the way for evaluation and I am hoping they are as good as I hear. My question will be what railed handguard I can get to fit it!

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/pre-ban/bura3b16m4-gp.asp

Gaiudo
March 29, 2007, 12:12 AM
Thanks for the detailed responses, guys.

I thought the 556 was AR.... perhaps it merely uses AR mags? Must have crossed my wires somewhere.

Thanks again, I'll keep researching. Its good to know the Bushy is available, I hadn't heard from anyone using one before. I continue to be interested in th P.O.F, but at this point know jack about their QC or other related long-term issues.


Nick

Langenator
March 29, 2007, 05:40 PM
The Sig556 uses AR mags, and I believe it has an AR-style collapsable stock and possibly an AR pistol grip.

rangerruck
March 29, 2007, 09:12 PM
one of two, either Patriot arms (patriot ordinance factory), or MGI military sales.

DMK
March 29, 2007, 09:38 PM
Doesn't DSA make one too?

Gaiudo
March 29, 2007, 10:29 PM
I like what I am seeing from POF. Which brings two more questions:

I definately prefer the terminal ballistics of the 6.5 Grendel over the 5.56, and even over the 6.8. I have heard POF has plans of releasing a 6.5 and also a 7.62 Nato. I would like this to be my number one carbine.

Do the superior ballistics of the 6.5 offer sufficient motivation to forego the tremendous supply availability of the 5.56? Perhaps this is guilty of taking my topic too far off topic.

Man, the choices....

Nick

Click Click Boom
March 29, 2007, 10:45 PM
Doesnt a company called ZM make a gas piston upper with a folding stock option?

BrennanKG
March 29, 2007, 11:41 PM
-DSA's piston AR is a POF upper.
-I believe POF has recently released their 308s.
-the ZM rifle (LR 300) can be found here: http://www.yankeehillmachine.com/store/lr.html

Although it's no more an AR15 than the Sig 556, my money is going toward a RA XCR.


Cheers,
B.

WeedWhacker
March 30, 2007, 03:55 AM
While I have no references to offer for proof, it is my understanding that Bushmaster, DSA, et al's gas piston uppers are all made and supplied by POF.

possum
March 30, 2007, 04:20 AM
lwrc and pof are on the top of the list for me. they are sweet weapons. i like the idea, and just goes to show how the gun makers keep improving a great design. and yes over at ar15.com you will get more info than you will probally ever need.

rangerruck
March 30, 2007, 10:11 PM
You know what?If it doesn't have to be the 100% ar look, get a nice keltec, in b or c model. I have a PLR from them , and it is Fabulous!!! I have put about 600 rounds through it, and you can still wipe your finger on the inside of the receiver, and not have a bit of crud on it!!!!

TOU
May 12, 2007, 12:16 PM
There are also Daewoo DR-200's available.

qbpc
May 12, 2007, 12:20 PM
ZM is the original and low on the radar. Special ops uses his stuff.
http://www.zmweapons.com/

Nomad, 2nd
May 12, 2007, 01:04 PM
Had a Guy with a Piston driven AR at one of the 5 day Tactical Response classes.

James told him at the beginning he had never had one get through the class without breaking.

I think it lasted till day 3 until the piston broke into several pieces.

IIRC it was a POF.

Reginhild
May 12, 2007, 06:39 PM
The Magpul Masada's design looks like it may be a contender but I havn't seen any reviews yet as it was just announced.

10-Ring
May 12, 2007, 06:43 PM
From what I've read, the HK will end up being the holy grail of piston uppers, but I would go w/ the Bushmaster...from my experience w/ this set up & w/ the company's customer svc, should be a good one to have.

chris in va
May 12, 2007, 06:44 PM
FWIW I spied a 556 at the local gun store and was quite suprised how hefty the gun is compared to an AR. Considerably heavier.

foob
May 12, 2007, 09:05 PM
What about robinson arms XCR?

Ethereal
May 12, 2007, 09:27 PM
I was all set to pick one of their 9 1/4 pistol uppers until I talked to Chris @P.O.F. and he said their rifles/uppers are 14 weeks out minimum. Go for it if you can spare the change and you're better off than me.

Number 6
May 12, 2007, 10:12 PM
Ares Defense makes a drop in piston unit that has gotten good reviews over on ar15.com.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=316338
http://www.aresdefense.com/product.html

LittleLebowski
July 15, 2007, 10:02 PM
"ZM is the original and low on the radar. Special ops uses his stuff."

Care to back that up with some facts? I can't find out much on this system.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 15, 2007, 10:42 PM
ZM is the original and low on the radar.

ZM didn't even exist when the first piston ARs came out; but they have been one of the first to bring a gas piston to the civilian market and have been around about nine years now.

trinydex
February 27, 2008, 10:01 PM
to add to op's comprehensive list

patriot ordinance factory: P-415
leitner-wise (aka LWRC): m6
hk: hk416
colt: colt 1020
lewis machine and tool (aka LMT): mrp?
barrett rifles: rec7
armalite: ar-180(b)

the title does say ar STYLE so i think these qualify as they share some ar parts like mags trigger packs or other stuff :D

sig sauer: sigarms556
robinson arms: xcr
bushmaster: acr (aka magpul masada)
fabrique nationale: fn scar-l (to some extent remnant of an ar style gun...)


conversions:

rhino (not available)
ares (bad reputation?)
osprey (too new)

Click Click Boom
February 27, 2008, 10:12 PM
Well, The Sig, XCR and ACR are not AR15's

You are missing LMT and Barettes(sp?) gas piston guns.

trinydex
February 27, 2008, 10:24 PM
fixed

LegalAlien
February 27, 2008, 10:32 PM
For piston operated AR type rifle, you should also research the FN SCAR

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF022&gid=FNG007

Latest US Military spec ops approved AR

LegalAlien
February 27, 2008, 10:35 PM
delete - dup post

RedLion
February 27, 2008, 10:51 PM
What about the AR-180B?

trinydex
February 27, 2008, 10:55 PM
good one, i shoulda put the ar18 too i guess but 180b will do.

NetJunkie
February 27, 2008, 11:00 PM
LWRC is very nice. Top of the line piston system.

I have a LMT piston rifle on order. The nice thing there is the monolithic rail platform with the quick change barrels. Easily go back and forth from 6.8 to 5.56.

Jenrick
February 27, 2008, 11:15 PM
I've got a 180B. It's a 2-3MOA rifle when it's hot, shoots right at 1 MOA when I do my part on a cold bore. Sucker is stupidly reliable, and can be shot all day long. I've never taken it to a training class, but 200rds or so a day 5 days a week for a couple months during my internship it got a good workout.

-Jenrick

Hellion Productions
February 29, 2008, 07:55 AM
These guys do a carbine, middie, OR rifle-length conversion for $400. Looks promising.

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=7

Best,
John Bear Ross

30 cal slob
February 29, 2008, 08:00 AM
there are several individual builders working on refining the current crop of commercially available gas-piston uppers. :evil:

A small number of HK416 uppers have been unintentionally discharged :eek: into public circulation. Last I checked they were going for $5,000 apiece (!)

I just picked up a Bushie (POF Gen I) gas-piston upper myself.

H2O MAN
February 29, 2008, 08:10 AM
Best Piston-Driven AR style weapon

Consider this piston driven battle proven rifle in an AR style stock :)

http://www.athenswater.com/images/SEICHLITE-4XFTS-XR308-MCS.jpg

stubbicatt
March 1, 2008, 08:25 AM
I was at an acquaintance's house last night. He bought one each of the POF in 7.62 and 5.56. These were really nicely built rifles. He must have had $5000 in the both of them, including optics and whatnot.

I have never had a DI AR 15, semi auto only, rifle fail on me other than due to ammunition failure. Cleaning is no fun, true enough, but I doubt that cleaning either of those rifles will be a whole lot of fun either.

At first I really really wanted one of those POF rifles. But then I realized, practically speaking, there is absolutely no difference in the service I get from rifles I already own, for what I do, which is plinking at stuff at 5 to 600 meters or less.

So I guess I ask you, "what for?" Are they neat rifles? Yes. When I look at them and hold them they were neat rifles. I understand that they are probably the best available.

NWdude83
March 1, 2008, 06:43 PM
Bushmaster ACR aka Magpul Masada.

everallm
March 1, 2008, 09:14 PM
+1 on the Robinson Arms XCR.

Built from the ground up with a piston system as well as 90 second barrel and bolt change for 5.56, 6.5, 6.8SPC and 7.62x39.

They also provide SBR configurations if you're permitted in your area

Darthbauer
March 4, 2008, 02:07 AM
Cant wait for the ACR. Just got to shoot a sig 556 and it was very nice. Trigger wasnt bad and the feel of it felt much like an AR but the way it shot felt very much like an AK. I didnt really notice any extra weight compared to my AR but then again im used to a heavy barrel and ARMS rail. Only thing that was bad about the sig was that its not very lefty friendly and the iron sights were horrible.

trinydex
March 4, 2008, 02:58 AM
you got to shoot one? where at i'll be in socal this weekend.

Darthbauer
March 4, 2008, 04:05 AM
you got to shoot one? where at i'll be in socal this weekend.


A friend of mine works for surefire and they ordered one and sig shipped two. He bought the other one. We shoot out at Lytle Creek every other weekend.

trinydex
March 4, 2008, 05:47 AM
crap, i lose at reading you meant a sig 556. i never thought for the life of me that a magpul masada would make it to ca before other "cooler" parts of the united states.

Darthbauer
March 4, 2008, 12:46 PM
crap, i lose at reading you meant a sig 556. i never thought for the life of me that a magpul masada would make it to ca before other "cooler" parts of the united states.


Surefire pissed Magpul off. If they didnt, we would probably already have some to play with as they were going to be giving some to Surefire before shotshow.

Gaiudo
March 4, 2008, 01:27 PM
Wow, talk about a thread resurrection! However, there have been some developments in this area since I originally posted last year.

I'm looking forward to the ACR/Masada release (and if we're lucky the Massoud as well!).

What did Surefire do to piss Magpul off? That should be an interesting story.

Darthbauer
March 4, 2008, 01:34 PM
What did Surefire do to piss Magpul off? That should be an interesting story.


Long story short, Surefire VP called everything Magpul makes plastic crap to their face and infront of some US military reps that were looking at the ACR at the time.

Gaiudo
March 4, 2008, 01:48 PM
That would do it.

NWdude83
March 4, 2008, 02:16 PM
Hmm Surfire makes flashlights, and a couple other things. They are good flashlights, but flashlights none the less. I don't see why they would comment on a gun.

trinydex
March 4, 2008, 04:12 PM
wow, that's beef.

Gaiudo
March 4, 2008, 04:17 PM
Surefire is currently delving into the high-end suppressor market as well, so that moves them into the firearm industry. About as much into it as Magpul, you might say!

Darthbauer
March 4, 2008, 04:25 PM
Surefire is currently delving into the high-end suppressor market as well, so that moves them into the firearm industry. About as much into it as Magpul, you might say!

Not really in the since that Magpul has actually made guns and surefire has only made lights, knives and other things to go on guns. I have one of their suppressor muzzle breaks on my Ar and its very nice and the suppressor goes on and comes off pretty quick.

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