[Clark]

MODERATOR EDIT - - -

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information. EDIT ENDS

A Chinese 213 Tokarev in 9x19mm is a tough gun, but I reamed it out to 9x23 and worked up incrementally until something blew.


Alliant max load: 357 mag, 8 gr Power Pistol, 158 gr JSP, 5.6", 1306 fps, 33,800 psi.

I shot 9x23mm, 12 gr Power Pistol, 158 gr XTP JHP, 4", Starline 9mm super comp brass, wspm, blew hole in case and bent magazine.http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=322911

[Cal4D4]

As always, bold.:cool:

[Grump]

Ah, the limit of that particular brass is now known for a one-specimen sample.

What velocity did you get with the previous load? I'm guessing around only 1550, partly because the Alliant loads usually give 100 fps less than published.

i.e., max safe published probably 1225 fps, dangerous onthe-edgeIdon'tcare thatitdidn'tblowup load probably "only" 325 fps faster from a real world gun.

Just guessin, you know.

[Zak Smith]

I'm curious why you used the Starline 9mm SuperComp brass for this experiment when the Winchester 9x23 brass is known to have much thicker base walls?

-z

[Clark]

That is a good point about the Win brass. I have some, and should have tried that today.

Today I tried to replicate, and 11.5 gr was ok, and the primer fell out at 12 gr.

I should have tried with Win brass, darn!

[Clark]

Zak,
OK, I used Win 9x23Win brass, and I got up to 16 gr Power Pistol, 158 gr XTP, 1.35", and primer and brass look good.

That is a good point to quit, at double the 357 mag max load, as the powder is really a pain to compress and takes allot of extra steps to load.

[Phil in Seattle]

Clark you are the resident mad experimenter that's for sure.

Did you ever get your hands on the L7A1 9mm ammuntion you wanted?

[Clark]

No, I never got any.
You are in Seattle.
I am on Mercer Island.
I got into trouble once at the WSI indoor range.
Years ago I was in an incremental work up with a Kel-Tec and looking to see where the brass went. An employee spotted one of my shots hitting the floor in front of the targets. He told me if I couldn't hit the targets I could not shoot there. I had a couple tool chests full of pistols with me, so I took out my most accurate: a 44 mag loaded to the max. While the employee watched me, I took careful aim a shot. The gun was so loud it caused the florescent lamp over head to fall between me and the target. It looked like I just shot the ceiling.

[Cal4D4]

Uh, Clark, was that .44 loaded to SAAMI max or Clark max?

[JohnK]

No need to worry about that anymore Clark, WSI is closed.

Did you ever have any problems at Wades?

[Clark]

The 44 mag seems to perform well, within the SAAMI specs:)

That 44 mag is an S&W 29-4 that I got at AMS guns in Woodeniville for $200 LNIB. I walked in right behind the guy who sold it on comminsion.

It has basically only fired 24 gr H110, 240 gr JHP, 1450 fps for the 5 or 6 years I have had it.

I can still see that guy pushing the broom at WSI, ready to really give me trouble.


I have never had any grief at Wade's.
The few times I have spoken with Wade he seems to be an intelligent and reasonable man. If I were him I would be very grumpy by now from dealing with all the public and employees I see in there. I don't know how he stays so cool. He must work out and have a girl friend.

[Wil Terry]

I MUST BE MISSING SOMETHING.
What is the point of this?
I've only been loading for 43 years, only a bit over 800,000 rounds to date, and I have NEVER felt the need to destroy a pistol with loads so outlandish as to begger comparison.

[Grump]

The point is, "how strong is the gun?"

Clark's results usually show that the case is the weak point.

Thus, I always remain committed to staying in specs because there's a certain statistical probability that ONE case will have a latent defect which will not show itself unless it's abused past its safety margin.

Besides, lightly controlled, non-instrumented and zero-video destructive testing is just plain fun. Whaddyathink will happen if ---- ????.

[Cal4D4]

Clark's work is the only empirical data I have seen which addresses the "how big is it" question of design safety margin. His work is adequately documented to point out trends and limits. He has given good insight on top loads for Blue Dot, Power Pistol and 800X. Better him (and his guns) than me and mine! Always interesting.

[Uncle Jaque]

Y

Golly gee!; I just check in to this forum (new to me) and here's our old Perfesser "ClarkkaBOOM" holding classes in here, too! (I have been hanging around several other gun boards for some time now).

Ya know, as much as people tend to question Mr. Clark's sanity from time to time, I have to concur with the last posted sentiment that it seems that no one else is doing this kind of research, and as over-the-top as his "Labratory procedures" might seem, I for one have been the benificiary of a lot of insight as to where the limits of the envelope might be in terms of various milsurp firearms as well as reloading components.

So Friend Clark; ye might have some "headspace" issues goin on there, Mate; but you certainly are one interesting bloke!

As far as I know, (please correct me Mr. Clark, or anyone else who knows if I'm wrong) - ClarkkaBoom has not (yet) ever seriously (if at all) injured anyone - including, miraculously enough, himself.

It seems that he takes reasonable precautions to prevent placing any innocent bystanders at risk.

So I will continue to follow the Pyrotechnical Perfesser's wild and whackky "research" with considerable interest!

Oh, BTW Mr. Moderator; Might we have a "Smiliey" for "KaBOOM"?
You know; all black, a few teeth missing, surprised expression, curls of smoke rising from burning hair...


Illustration: CLARK gets a new PC Ballistics Program...

[Clark]

I have been posting my overloads at most every forum about handloading on the intertnet 4 years. I have been doing incremental work up overloads on .223, .243, 25acp, 257 Roberts AI, 32acp, 32sw, 32S&WLong, 2-20,7.62x25mm, 7.62x54R, 8x57mm, .380, 9x19mm, 9x23mm, 357 Sig, 38 sp, 357 mag, 38sw, 40sw, 10mm, 10.4mm, 44 mag, 45acp, 45Colt, 452/70, .410, and 45/70.

I have purchased the guns and reloading equiptment, but have not yet overloaded the following: .222, 6.5x55, 30-30, 303Sav, .308, 30-06, 7.62x39mm, 303Brit, 12 ga, and 10 ga. So look for more posts all over the internet in the future.

[Uncle Jaque]

Yo Ho, Professor!; We will surely be looking forward to reports of your enlightening (and occasionally entertaining) contributions yet to come!

Keep dodging the shrapnel, and PULEEEAZE send us some PICTURES! We wanna see PICTURES of you lighting off some of these "Proof" loads!

Illustration: "ClarkkaBoom's Pet Penguin"

Out of scientific curiosity, Prof. Clark experiments with systematic overfeeding of his pet penguin, which has taken to nesting atop his tellie in the Tea Room...