Which Assault Rifle in .308


PDA






camslam
March 29, 2007, 10:05 PM
Hey Gang,

I'm getting ready to purchase an assault/battle rifle and I had a couple of questions. I realize there will be many varying opinions on this and I have searched many threads looking for information regarding this subject. If possible could those of you with experience owning/shooting a .308 assault rifle please weigh in on the following:

What .308 assault rifle would you recommend for the following desires:
1. .308 caliber, semi-automatic, reliable, decent weight for carrying for long periods of time, pistol grip (possible adjustable stock), and ability to mount optics.
2. Used as a quality all around rifle, for example - accurate out to 300 to 500 yards, could also be used for close quarters battle inside of 100 yards, possibly used for hunting, SHTF scenarios, etc...

My biggest concern is RELIABILTY in the gun action, magazines, and ability to succesfully shoot different factory or handloads. Also factoring in the weight and accuracy.

I have looked at the AR-10's, M1A's, FAL's, and HK-91's. I just need some direction from people that have been there done that.

Any help or information is appreciated. Thanks.

If you enjoyed reading about "Which Assault Rifle in .308" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
possum
March 29, 2007, 10:13 PM
Welcome To THR!
i would check out the dpms line up they make great .308 models. for the criteria you listed i would say go with the Lr-308AP4 model. i think it would serve you very well in all the area's that you want it to!
here is a link!
http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/308/ap4.aspx
hope this helps!

though my favorite battle rifle in .308 and the greatest semi auto rifle ever devised IMHO is the m1a/m14/m21 type. but it will take quite a bit of money to get it set up like you described. the dpms, will be ready to rock with minimal extra cost!

Glockfan.45
March 29, 2007, 10:16 PM
The four you listed are all good choices, after that it comes down to a matter of personal preference. I cant stand the ergos of the FAL, or 91s. The M1A was too expensive, and heavy for me so I went with the AR-10. You just need to handle them and see what feels right for you. Having said that with the cost of .308 right now might I recomend something in single shot ;) . Kel-Tec is supposed to be putting out a bullpup rifle in .308 next year. Perhaps you might want to take a look into it.

rbernie
March 29, 2007, 10:16 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=247934
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=249106
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=247251
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=245291
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=226535

alucard0822
March 29, 2007, 10:44 PM
My favorite so far is the M1A, smooth and reliable action, accurate and feels good to me. I have tried a saiga, fal and G3, the saiga is oddly balanced and hard to shoot well, the other two are not all that much cheaper than a M1A , but don't feel as solid. I have not shot an AR-10, but I own an AR-15 and like it alot. I am interested in the Kel-tech bullpup, looks like a fun little rifle.

maasenstodt
March 29, 2007, 10:55 PM
My choice in a .308 battle rifle was a Tromix converted 16" barrel Saiga.

In terms of reliability, as a Kalashnikov design, I tend to doubt that anything surpasses it in terms of construction and the ability to work under abusive conditions. This was a major concern for me and played no small role in my decision.

Concerning its accuracy, I can't think of a report that I've read which put it at more than 3 MOA with quality ammo, making it accurate enough for a rifleman to hit a man sized target out to 400 yards +. Indeed, most of what I've read puts it somewhere between 1.5-2.5 MOA. Optics are certainly an option, and they don't eliminate the use of irons, either.

While the 16" Saiga with a full load isn't light, I find the rifle quite handy and reasonably well balanced. It's compact enough to use for indoor sweeps in my small home.

Price-wise, the 20 round mags from FBMG aren't cheap, but the rifle itself is an absolute bargain. If you're handy and can do the conversion yourself, it's even cheaper.

The only significant negative that I can think of is the controls. For all of its qualities, the Saiga is still an AK-based design and can't match the ergonomics of a FAL or AR10. That said, I'm not as put off by the AK's controls as some, and the other features (along with its price) were compelling.

Good luck! :)

JWarren
March 29, 2007, 11:01 PM
I would recommend a converted Saiga 308-- for the following reasons:


1. The converted saiga 308 balances as well as any other military style rifle.

2. It can accept a whole range of ammunition with no hick-ups.

3. It has a optics mount rail on the receiver already. Optics can be mounted to the rifle, removed, and reattached with no loss of zero.

4. It is extremely durable, being on a Kalishnakov design.

5. It is a suprisingly accurate rifle. With a scope attached, I can shoot between 1"-1.5" groups all day long.

6. 20 Round magazines are available from FBMG.



I have owned HK-91 (original HK), Century FAL, AK's, AR's (no AR-10 types), and the Saiga 308. By far, I consider the Saiga 308 the one I prefer most.


John

rangerruck
March 30, 2007, 03:42 AM
though I love saigas, and have 3, if you are thinking future armageddon here, you would proly be better off with a fal, hk, or cetme. Why? mag availability, and cost, and worldwide commonality of parts. But I do love Saigas.

TexasRifleman
March 30, 2007, 09:43 AM
The PTR91 SC is interesting to me.

http://www.ptr91.com/products.html#sc


Squad Carbine, Black furniture with new tactical handguard machined from military spec. Hard-anodized aluminum with 3 6.5"" rails, welded scope mount, H&K Navy type polymer trigger group, original H&K pre-ban flash hider & 16" fluted barrel.

Short enough to do what you say, reasonable close battle inside 100 yards, but with enough accuracy to reach out to 3-500 yards if needed.

I'm very close to placing an order for one, have not completely decided if I am OK with that short barrel but I believe it would do for what you are seeking.

Will Fennell
March 30, 2007, 09:51 AM
I'm very pleased with my Kit Gun FAL, that a board member/friend here on THR had built for me.......shoots great, low recoil, easy to mount optics, reliable, cheap mags.....whats not to love:)

HorseSoldier
March 30, 2007, 10:01 AM
1. .308 caliber, semi-automatic, reliable, decent weight for carrying for long periods of time, pistol grip (possible adjustable stock), and ability to mount optics.
2. Used as a quality all around rifle, for example - accurate out to 300 to 500 yards, could also be used for close quarters battle inside of 100 yards, possibly used for hunting, SHTF scenarios, etc...


DSA FAL with an M4-type telescoping (and also collapsible) stock, with an 18" or 16.25" barrel is probably the option that best meets everything you want, but it's by no means the least expensive route you can go.

USSR
March 30, 2007, 10:50 AM
What .308 assault rifle would you recommend for the following desires:
1. .308 caliber, semi-automatic, reliable, decent weight for carrying for long periods of time, pistol grip (possible adjustable stock), and ability to mount optics.
2. Used as a quality all around rifle, for example - accurate out to 300 to 500 yards, could also be used for close quarters battle inside of 100 yards, possibly used for hunting, SHTF scenarios, etc...

My biggest concern is RELIABILTY in the gun action, magazines, and ability to succesfully shoot different factory or handloads. Also factoring in the weight and accuracy.

camslam,

A FAL can meet your requirements. I would suggest removing the barrel-mounted bipod if it comes with one, as they weigh a ton, and you don't want to have a bipod directly attached to your barrel anyways. Mounting optics is pretty straight forward and easy with the FAL. DSA makes a strong and rigid mount with a picatinny rail on top. The adjustable gas nut on the FAL makes it perfectly suitable and reliable when using different types of ammo with various pressure levels. While there are platforms that offer slightly better accuracy, you should have no problems inside the 500 yards that you intend to use it.

Don

ALS
March 30, 2007, 10:57 AM
I have a HK91, 2 M1A's, and Armalite AR10 and all are great weapons. Many have recommended the FAL which is also a nice gun for the money.
Bushmaster also offers a .308 in the AR platform.

cmidkiff
March 30, 2007, 11:59 AM
I was recently looking for the same thing you are looking for. My advice would be to shoot as many variations of the M1a, FAL, HK91, Saiga, and AR10 rifles as you can, and make your decision.

If price is the primary concern, the Saiga is going to win, hands down. All the others will be in the $1000-$1500 range for a nice example, so pick the one you like best. Ammo will end up costing you more than the rifle anyway, if you shoot it much. On the cost front, you might consider magazine cost, as well.

I ended up with a PTR91. Love the look and feel of the rifle, shoots very well, reliable, magazines are very inexpensive, and I got a nice example at a decent price.

cmidkiff
March 30, 2007, 12:04 PM
Double post...

Still 2 Many Choices!?
March 30, 2007, 12:08 PM
Chose the DSA FAL with 19" barrel. After all, it was used in the movie ,"Heat":evil: ! Now I just have to wait for it to arrive in another 10-12 weeks:banghead: . Maybe I'll get a Saiga conversion to hold me over till then.

Still 2 Many Choices!?

funfaler
March 30, 2007, 12:10 PM
I can't speak to the HK types, only that the ergonomics lend itself less to long range accuracy that the others. Other folks will give you plenty of input on these rifles, I am sure.

The M1a, if tough to beat for accuracy and reliability. The FAL is a very close second. The AR products, regardless of all the flaming this will produce, are very accurate, but un-reliable for SHTF. They work great if you can "care" for them and feed them expensive ammo, but in a SHTF situation, neither of those are easily available. (Many will come on now and tell you that I am wrong, but that has been my experience, and DPMS specifically says that their 308s will not run surplus, and I have seen first hand they are true). The cost of AR308 mags are very high as well.

Either the M1a or FAL will suit you very well, just don't expect to buy a $500-600 rifle and have it run flawlessly. You usually get what you pay for it. Don't bother with anything but a Standard M1a or FAL, you can always go back and tart it up, if you want. The Standards will be more accurate than you will be for quite some time.

doubleg
March 30, 2007, 12:57 PM
AR-10 if you can afford it.

AndyC
March 30, 2007, 02:17 PM
FAL followed by M1A

amprecon
March 30, 2007, 02:27 PM
There aren't alot of choices for this class of weapon. The FAL and HK-91 look pretty cool, but in my opinion just are not as balanced as the M1A and not nearly as ergonomical IMO. But those two do take down easier for cleaning. Also though, the bolt and chamber of the M1A is pretty much exposed to quickly see what might be jamming up the works instead of having to yank the carrier cover or buttstock to peek inside. Some might say that the M1A's design leaves it more prone to the entry of debris into the action than the other designs.
I'm more partial to the classic lines in a rifle and don't really care much for the protruding pistol grip. However, I don't mind it with the AK. I don't have any experience with the AR-15(10) style weapons so I can't comment on those.
But all said and done, it will come down to what feels best to you and that you feel confident with. My choices were also confined by my finances when I went shopping for one, so I bought a PTR-91 (HK-91 clone) because it was the "cheaper" way to go. I found that I abhorred the ergonomics, trigger and bolt retraction mechanism. I sold it, and put the money towards the rifle that "feels" good to me and I am really satisfied and confident with, the M1A.

mljdeckard
March 30, 2007, 02:35 PM
I bought an M1A and got rid of it pretty quickly. I found that to make it a viable long-range weapon, it would need some mods. (Adjustable cheek-piece stock.) I tried shooting it with the 2nd gen scope mount, and I could never get in a comfortable position to shoot it, the scope kept dinging me over the eyebrow. Also, while the mount did give access to the iron sights, it blocked them when I tried to actually adjust them to where I needed them to zero. I would never say it isn't a great rifle, but in that configuration, I couldn't shoot it well, and I wasn't shooting it any faster than I could shoot a bolt rifle.

I have minimal experience with the FAL and HK 91. I did decide that if I was to try another battle rifle, I would put together or carefully select an AR-10. (The DPMS ones look best right now.) I'm thinking, if I can get familiar with one in .308, I can learn one in .243 for coyotes and another in 300 SAUM.

trueblue1776
March 30, 2007, 02:38 PM
An assault rifle? I can only assume that's a rifle built to assault people.:)

Rem700SD
March 30, 2007, 02:39 PM
I'm going to vote for the DPMS. It's very accurate out of the box, good ergonomics, and easy, solid scope rail standard.

Downside is the relative supply of magazines and parts vs old, classic battle rifles.

FYI Bushmaster has stopped production of their BAR 10. Rock River arms is picking up design/production, but no rifles have been produced as of yet.

Dan

temmi
March 30, 2007, 02:50 PM
I vote for what I own; an AmmaLite AR10. Mine is a standard (not Match) AR10 and it shoots just over 1 MOA at 100 yards (Better than advertised) with the Battle Sites.
The only Issue is they void your warranty if they find out you shoot reloads.

I have never had a problem with my AR.

emitt1
March 30, 2007, 02:55 PM
I vote for the M1A SA. I've put countless rounds thru it and its never let me down. They cost, but IMHO, worth it.

1911JMB
March 30, 2007, 03:30 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need a battle rifle sticky.

rino451
March 30, 2007, 05:30 PM
Start saving for a SCAR-H. By the time you see them on teh shelves, you should have the $. Oh, and maybe there will be more milsurp .308 around... then again, maybe not.

velojym
March 30, 2007, 06:00 PM
I wouldn't suggest an assault rifle, at least for an early purchase. The select-fire stuff is pretty pricey compared to the semi-auto rifles, not to mention all the extra regulations attached to them.
I'd like to get my paws on a FAL, personally, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at what I've seen in the thread so far.

mkh100
March 30, 2007, 06:00 PM
M1A
FAL
PTR91/G3

In that order, with practice any of the three are accurate, all are reasonably durable, and all will do the job.

If money is a big factor take a good look at the M1 Garand......can't be beat for the price right now.

FWIW I bought into the ptr/g3 family, while its a compromise I am VERY happy, particularly with genuine H&K mags at about $1 each.

Mike

kennyboy
March 30, 2007, 11:55 PM
Armalite's AR-10 is suppossed to be a system to be reconed with. I don't have one, nor have I shot one, but I have heard nothing but good things about them. Armalite seems to keep a low profile, but produces good, solid, reliable weapons. I have experience with their AR-180 Costa Mesa folder. It is simple, accurate, and tough.

On the other hand, if money isn't a problem, a HK would be your best bet probably. HK is usually head and shoulders above all the competition.

10-Ring
March 31, 2007, 02:21 AM
I really like the smoothness & the accuracy of the M1A

mb419
March 31, 2007, 03:59 AM
I have a PTR-91, one of the aluminum receiver G-3, one full size FAL, and one FAL that I had shortened down to 17 inches. The PTR-91 is a great gun and you can get magazines really cheap, but I think if I was going out the door and had to grab a .308, I would take the carbine size FAL. Great handling gun. I had it built out of a STG-58 parts kit and an Imbel receiver. I didn't spend as much on it as I would have for a DSA or an M1A or AR10. I think any of these guns would be great to have, but, before I would jump into the 308 battle rifle game, I would start out with a relatively inexpensive version before going all the way. You can always trade in later and upgrade after you've tried one out.
Good luck and have fun.

Medusa
March 31, 2007, 04:28 AM
This question has 2 sides - for long range accuracy you need longer barrel, but it makes the rifle clumsy in close quarters. For close quarters you need something easily manoeverable, but this means short barrel and lesser oomph/accuracy at long ranges. So it's a tradeoff - can't excel in both.

You need to figure out, what you need, exactly, write it down if you want, like - I need the gun for following duties: ....

Ie how much work is done in CQB and how much in 'reach out and touch someone' distances. Something good in the middle may have too much tradeoffs on both ends.

For CQB I'd use something short, like FAL carbine, or .223 cal rifle, something M4 like; and longer ranges something good and accurate, with 20+ inches barrel (perefably 22+), like M1A, or AR-10(T) or AR-10A4. You know, each job has the tools that fit best.

If you enjoyed reading about "Which Assault Rifle in .308" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!