[Nightcrawler]

Who here uses Sellier & Bellot ammunition? It's made in the Czech Republic. I've fired hundreds of rounds of the stuff through my CZ-97B without incident.

I was reading some of John Farnam's Quips and Quotes (http://www.defense-training.com/quips/quips.html) and he repeatedly refers to this brand of ammunition "trash", referencing squib loads and out of spec cartridges.

Now, like most Gun Gurus, Mr. Farnam seems to both know what he's talking about and be extremely opinionated. He favors Glocks every bit as much as Jeff Cooper favors the 1911.

In any case, it peaked my curiosity. Who here uses a lot of S&B ammunition? Any problems with it of note? Any problems with it that seem to occur more frequently than with American ammuntion?

[Ian Sean]

I use the hell out of it, mainly 9mm and have NEVER had a problem at all with it.

Maybe he is on the payroll of somebody ticked off about cheap import ammo? A little research is in order.

[general]

I've been using the .45 stuff - couple thousand rounds, no problems. I just received 500 rounds of .38 SPL and 1000 rounds of .45 from Cheaper Than Dirt (good price). Shot a box or two a few weekends ago - no problems. Will post if any.

[Matt1911]

Been using it for years in my sks.only one round out of thousands,that faIled to go bang,then again,that has been the only round,of any brand,that ever failed to go bang....
Matt

[mummac]

Fired 300 rds with my buddy in his CZ 75BD without a problem. I keep wanting to order some for mine, but the Winchester value box at Wal-Mart has been providing instant gradificaiton. Also, with my limited experience, the S&B seemed cleaner than the cheap Winchester.

[BallisticTip]

Have used lots of the 9mm, with no problems.

[Outlander]

I use S&B in .45, 9mm, .357, .38 and .380.
NEVER had a problem with this ammo.
Even a guru can talk out of his butt now and then.

[MonkeyMan]

My M-38 Swedish Mauser in 6.5 X 55 absolutely loves S&B as does my 8MM Turkish Mauser. I've also shot bunches of 9MM, .45ACP, and .357Magnum with nary a bobble. The only complaint I have is the .357 seems a tad warm.

[Nando Aqui]

My HK USP .45 Tactical likes the S&B best of four brands I tried. All four brands worked fine, but the S&B was more accurate.

Also use the S&B 9mm (for H&K, S&W & Browning) with absolutely no problems.

Alex

[seeker_two]

I use it in .25ACP, 9mm, .38SPL, .357Mag, .45ACP. & .303Brit. Never had any problem with it, and it tends to shoot straighter & cleaner than most American & foreign ammo in that price range. In fact, I use the .45ACP load a lot for IPSC Limited 10 shooting when I don't reload my own.

Another thing I like about it is that it's loaded a little warmer than American ammo. I did a little informal "test" w/ .25ACP ammo once (by accident) on a 1x4 oak board used as part of a target brace. All the American .25ACP ammo I shot into the board (at 10' distance) bounced off, but the S&B FMJ punched right through the board & buried itself in the berm behind. If I ever carry the .25, S&B will be the only load in it. I've also carried the .357 load in my Blackhawk in New Mexico bear country for the power & penetration it offers (& b/c it was the largest caliber I had at the time.) Never felt nervous about that choice. S&B ammo is also my "backup" load for my guns when I need a deeper penetrator than the usual JHP's. And I like the 150gr. .303 loading b/c it doesn't kick as much as the heavier-grain loads from other companies.

It's great ammo. Order a case of everything w/ confidence...:D

[foghornl]

I have shot S&B only in .45ACP. Over 2,000 rounds, no issues.

[rick newland]

Maybe he bought his ammo back in the 80's and hasent used it since. I was stationed in germany at that time and the Rod and Gun Clubs sold S&B dirt cheap. I had the same exp as Farnum, out of spec and the largest problem, no flash hole in the primer pocket. The ammo they make now is first rate. Couple of months ago shot the Alabama police pistol course, I was using a Colt Commander with S&B supplied by the range, what impressed me was had to fire five rounds in the dark and there was very little muzzle flash.

[Hawk]

Ordinarily, no problems. However, I've gotten 10 boxes out of an apparent bad lot of 7.62X25. Roughly 10% of the rounds have primers that appear to only be held in by the lacquer.

There are two additional reports of this turning up on two separate C&R boards in the czech pistol forums. Not many people hollering - it's likely a small lot out of a bajillion cases.

[Lone_Gunman]

First, who is John Farnam? and more importantly, who appointed him gun guru?

Secondly, whoever he is, he is wrong about S&B. It is great ammo. I have shot many thousand rounds of 45 and 9 mm, and never had a problem at all. It is as accurate and reliable as Winchester and Remington. Some say its dirtier, and that might be true, but it is really hard for me to tell.

Finally, I believe S&B 230g FMJ's were on Bill Wilson's list of preferred ammo for his 1911s, which is a pretty good recommendation in and of itself.

[Captain Bligh]

I shoot S&B along with Fiocchi, Speer, & Winchester White Box. I've never had a problem with S&B and believe that it shoots as well as the others. I've shot ammo I like less.

RJ

[Dorrin79]

The only S&B I've shot was some 8x57JS FMJ in my Yugo M48.

It was accurate.

Most reports here have been positive.

[Monte Harrison]

A couple thousand rounds 9mm and .45, with ONE 9mm round that the bullet was set too far into the case. For the price, I have no complaints.

[Calvin]

I have shot several thousand rounds of .45, .357, and .223 without a single problem. In fact it is just as,if not more accurate and cleaner shooting than most ammo in it's price range. It does seem to be a little hotter though.

[Justin]

I've a lot of S&B pistol ammo- 9mm, .40S&W, and 7.62Tok. No problems. I've test fired S&B .223 and had no problems with it either.
As far as I'm concerned, S&B ammo is a good deal.

[Sean Smith]

I've shot great big piles of it in .45 and 9mm. It always works fine. Wilson, in fact, recommends S&B ammo for their guns last I checked.

[biere]

I am currently dealing with a case of 357 magnum S&B ammo I bought a year or two ago.

It works just fine in two ruger sp101s I have.

It has a lot of out of spec rims when used in a ruger gp100 that is on the tight end of normal specs. When using the ammo in this gun I have to take each round and make sure the cylinder will turn with the round in it. It is not a dirty gun, it is not something under the star making it stick up. All other ammo works fine in this revolver.

I have simply been using the S&B ammo in the 101s, but I find it annoying that about 40 rounds in a 50 round box will work in the gp100, but those 10 that don't can really stick the cylinder.

Overall, I won't be buying it again.

[Dot_mdb]

I have had no problems with S&B 9mm. I have had out of spec cases in .38 special. Case heads have been too thick.

Bill

[Prodigalshooter]

I also have used several thousand rounds each of .45ACP and 9mm S&B without any problems. I also used some .357 of theirs
But it was a bit too hot for the short barrel I was shooting from, otherwise fine. It's the only brand I shoot in 9x18.

[Okiecruffler]

I had some trouble with S&B 9mm in my Keltec with hard primers, but to be fair, I had lightened up all the springs to improve the trigger pull. Still no other ammo had a problem with it.

I've noticed that the .38 and .357 brass seems to hold up alittle better than most for reloading, and all of my .303 brass is S&B. Kind of tough to resize, but sure beats paying for Norma brass.

[RON in PA]

I've shot many thousands of rounds of 9x19mm out of my pistols and have had three minor problems. One, a cartridge that when fired didn't sound right, a possible squib, but the barrel on inspection was clear. Last weekend, shooting my Sig 228, two rounds needed a second trigger pull to go bang. I did check the first round and it did have a deep firing pin impression from the first strike.

[DJJ]

I've fired a couple thousand each of 9mm, .40 & .45. Seems to work fine. I've had one failure to fire (a .40); I ran it through the gun again and it fired.

Their shotgun ammo is a different story. Soft shot, bad patterns, etc.

[XLMiguel]

I have gone thru several cases of 9mm and .45 in a variety of handguns. No muss, no fuss, great stuff for the price at CTD or Natchez.

[Zak Smith]

I have shot 1k .45ACP and about 5k 9mm S&B. Had one squib in 9mm - bullet stuck in barrel.

-z

[Erich]

I've shot hundreds of rounds of their .45s, 9s, .380s and .32s. I continue to do so. Also a decent number of 6.5x55 and 7.62x54Rs.

There were a number of harrowing stories about the 5.56 over on AR15.com, though, so I've avoided that caliber.

Oh! And I do recall reading about a blowup of a USP Tactical .45 over on the HK board within the last 6 months. I am actually carrying S&B in my 1911, though, FWIW.

Edited to add: Oh yeah, I've used a ton of Tok S&B, too!

[MarineTech]

S&B is great practice ammo. It's not going to win any matches for you, but it's a good solid plinking investment. I've put almost 8000 rounds of S&B downrange with only 2 bad rounds, neither of which was serious (1 FTF, 1 FTE).

In all, I've used:

7.62X25 Tokarev, .380ACP, 9mm, 38SPL, .357Magnum, 40S&W, 45ACP, .223, .308, and 12 Gauge

I've found that it's much cleaner ammo than UMC or Winchester White box, and the cases are great for reloading. I've seen .223 cases reloaded 11 times that are only just starting to show signs of excessive wear.

[LightPlanePilot]

I've fired several thousand rounds of 9mm, 45 and 223 from S&B and have never had bad luck with them. I purchsed some Remmington 22LR and had a 50% failure to fire.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Prolly a couple thousand rounds of both 9mm and .45ACP. No problems whatsoever.

- pdmoderator

[DMK]

I've burned up thousands of rounds of .32ACP, 9mm, 45ACP, and a few hundred of 7.62x39(wish they still made this caliber!), 7.62x25, .38, .357 and 12GA Buckshot. I've never had any problems at all.

All of their ammo seems relatively hot to me, but I have complete confidence in it. All the calibers seem very consistent and accurate.

[Mike Irwin]

I've shot probably 3,000 rounds of S&B ammo over the past several years, mainly 9mm and .45, but some .357 as well.

It's excellent ammo.

I've also reloaded many of the cases a dozen times or more.

Not sure where Mr. Farnham's bad experiences came from, but I've had NONE of them.

[SJ]

Like most people here, I've had very good experiences with S&B .45, shooting several thousand rounds. The .38Sp wadcutter is also nice for new shooters.

However, I personally saw one of the events which may have turned Mr. Farnam away from S&B. It was a weekend rifle class in the spring of 2000. One student had constant failures to feed and fire in his AR15 with a new case of S&B .223. After troubleshooting the rifle, the student realized that the ammo was actually a mix of .222 and .223! Some boxes (all marked .223)had all .223, some boxes had a mix of .222 and .223, and some boxes were completely .222. Needless to say the student had some harsh words for S&B quality control on that day.

Based on their continued performance for me, I have no problem with S&B for practice ammo. Just make sure to check them out as you load up, as we should any ammo.

[Betty]

I've shot up plenty of S&B .32ACP, 9mm,.45ACP, and 12 gauge 00 Buck with no problem. I love the stuff.

[Skunkabilly]

For .45 ball I use it exclusively as it's the cheapest thing going.

Only a few stoppages, not sure if it was the ammo or the gun, maybe like 1 out of 1000 or less.

[raz-0]

well I have gone through several thousand rounds of 9mm, about a thousand of 45. A couple of boxes of .357

The .357 seems to vary power wise form run to run. SInce it is for a desert eagle, I tend to avoid it. in revolvers, it all shot fine.


AS for rifle, a friend got some 8mm mauser ammo. The cases kept splitting (and this wans't happening to otherammo). IIRC it was the necks.

their pistol ammo seems to be fine, have heard less than stellar thins about heir rifle ammo.

[7677]

rick newland,
I was statoned in Germany in the late 80s and I shot thousands of rounds of 9mm S&B and I never had and problems with it?

SJ,
Speaking of quality control and ammo around 1998 we got a batch of CCI blazer that had a mix of 380 and 9mm. Also the new lead free ammo has destroyed more guns then any other ammo I've seen on the market.

I do know that S&B has had some hard primer problems with their 357SIG ammo. When S&B first came out with 357SIG it worked great. However, the last 1000 rounds I bought have about 4 hard primers per box of 50. This is where I think Farnam was wrong as it would be like me saying avoid S&B because I have a problem with 357SIG even though I've shot thousands of 32acp, 9mm, 45acp, 7.62X39mm, 8mm Mauser, and 303 British without a single problem.

[Dave Markowitz]

I have good results with S&B ammo in 9x19 and .303.

[jsalcedo]

Bought 600 rounds of the 32 auto and it worked fine.

300 rounds of .45acp was good too.

[eotp]

9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP

No problems with any of this S&B FMJ ammo

[Sven]

Love the .45, 9mm, and .30 carbine S&H - wish I could get some of their .308.

Also wish the red primer sealer didn't leak into my firing pin channel when cleaning... the firing pin hole 'bleeds red' during my occasional deep clean, but never had any problems with reliability, even firing 1,500 rounds without cleaning (.45)

[atlctyslkr]

I've never had any trouble out of it. It's cleaner than some popular American made brands. Seems a little on the hot side too (in .357) I carry a speedloader of it incase I need the penetration that a FMJ in .357 offers.

[woerm]

I'm not sure what Farmhams' issue is here but I've used S&B forever.

When I was breaking in a 9mm that wouldn't function reliably with anything I grabbed a box of S&B lo and behold it worked fine.

S&B builds what I call 'spec ammo'

ie what is the base requirement for this round.

I've used 5k round or so of 6.5x55, 7.62x25, .308/7.62x51 and 9mm and I am about to get a couple of cases of .32acp

If the gun won't function with S&B it probably needs gunsmithing ASAP

just my humble opinion.

Farnham blew this one for what ever reason.

r

[antsi]

S&B is great stuff and much better than most low-cost plinking/practice ammo.

Some people have complained about hard primers. I have experienced this, but in both cases the guns were somewhat culpable. In one case, an autopistol had a damaged firing pin that still functioned well enough to shoot soft primered ammo, but it wouldn't always shoot S&B. Once fixed, it shot S&B just fine. In another case, a revolver I bought had a bunch of springs lightened to improve the trigger pull and it didn't always shoot S&B reliably. So in both those cases, I don't know if you can really blame the S&B people when there were "issues" with the guns themselves.

[brentwal]

No problem with any I've ever used.

[EddieCoyle]

I use it and love it. It's a great deal. The brass is really good; when I'm running low on brass for reloading, I'll buy a bunch of S&B ammo. My only complaint is that they don't make 10mm.

[Zen21Tao]

I've fired quite a bit of 62grn green tip ss109 .223 ammo and haven't yet had any problems. I can't really comment on accuracy as I tend to use this stuff for plinking and Black Hills for match ammo.

[Tory]

with S&B and I'm happy to get the brass when fools leave it behind.:D

[Pumpkinheaver]

I've fired tons of this stuff in 7.62X39, 9mm, .357 .223 and .45acp. Never had any problem with it. I havn't used any lately so maybe this is a new QC issue with them?

[PaulBk]

S&B is all I use in my .32ACP. A few hundred rounds without a failure of any kind.

-PB

[Werewolf]

S&B is great stuff. It works especially well in CZ's (imagine that ;) ). Accurate and hotter than most US manufactured equivalents. Good quality brass whose only fault is the primer pockets are a bit on the small side (which means the occasional flipped primer when reloading).

But lately here in OKC the supply has been limited for some reason. :(

[taz-2005]

I have used 45 apc, 9mm. 38 spl .357 mag 40 s&w no problems at all in any of my firearms.

[fastbolt]

The most recent experience which comes to mind was during a CCW class we were teaching the other night ...

One of the licensees brought a new box of S&B .38 Spl ammunition to use during qualification. After several repeated failures-to-ignite occurred in his revolver, all of which involved some rather impressively well-struck, deeply indented primer cups, he switched to a different brand of ammunition and completed his qualification. He 'donated' the remaining unused box of it to us, obviously not wishing to keep it.