Fellow Kahr Owners bare with me, I need your help. Let's settle this once and for all. Everyone else, we need to get to the bottom of this, please only vote in this poll if you own or have owned a Kahr PM9. If you have questions about another Kahr model please create a separate poll of your own.
OK, I have read numerous threads about the unreliability of the Kahr PM9 and just as many stating that the unreliability may be overstated and that many owners have had no problems.
How many of you have had problems after the 200 round break in period? How many have had no problems after the 200 round break in period?
I thought about adding a choice for those that have had no problems after a trip back to Kahr, but I don't really think that anyone should have to send their gun back in. Any firearm manufacturer should make sure that the gun is in perfect working order before they ship it the first time.
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March 30, 2007, 09:57 PM
I'm not sure you have enough options.
So, let me say the gun has been fine from day one as far as no jams.
However, I did have an incident with a cartridge that blew out. It was a reload, and I quit using reloads in the gun. Upon examination I don't believe the PM9 has nearly the chamber support of my Sig P239. The factory fixed the resultant minor damage at no charge, polished the feed ramp and replaced springs and did it expeditiously.
I trust it and carry it daily.
March 30, 2007, 11:21 PM
It seems that most Kahrs run perfectly if you read up on them here and on GlockTalk.com. The ones that dont run perfectly seem to run horribly, so it is all or nothing. I love the little Kahrs, but I will be the first to admit that Kahr seems to put out more lemons than most other high $$$ manufacturers. There is no other nice shooting super small 9mm than it and the Rohrbaugh and those are $1k or something. If Glock made a PM9 sized gun they would sell like crazy, but for now the PM9 is the only affordable game in town unless you want a Keltec.
For everyone saying to buy a Glock on the other thread, you have to decide how big of a gun you want to carry. I have more Glocks than any other make, but the PM9 is in another league when it comes to being small.
March 30, 2007, 11:28 PM
I have about 1,000 rounds through mine so far. I had a couple of rounds fail to fully go into battery during the first 50, but no problems since then.
March 31, 2007, 12:47 AM
Have one. Few malfunctions in first few hundred, seems to be ok now, but don't shoot it enough anymore to vote. Only thing I dislike about it is they don't know how to do plastic (too soft- it burrs and makes hairs), poorly finished frames from factory. They are impressive though for what they are at that size.
Let's settle this once and for all.
March 31, 2007, 01:10 AM
My girlfriend's polymer PM9 has eaten all kinds of cheap reloads from round 1 to probably around 2000 or so. It didn't need any break-in period and has shot without hiccups, with its factory magazines.
I got her a couple non-factory magazines from Midway, for a defensive handgun class (a third of the price of actual Kahr magazines) and while they work most of the time when the magazines aren't loaded perfectly it can result in a major malfunctions. The kind that you have to use pliers to fix.
Anyway, with the Kahr magazines the weapon is as reliable as any and she carries the weapon with confidence.
March 31, 2007, 01:36 AM
Just recently I have discovered that my barrel seems to be hitting my slide and peening slighly, causing the pistol to sometimes fail to go into battery. Guess i'm going to have to send it to the factory. After the first 200 rds or so, no problems. Probably 1000 rds more and now this. I love the pistol, but it HAS to be reliable.
March 31, 2007, 11:51 AM
Well, I was excited for awhile when the poll was showing only 1 person with a problematic Kahr. I started the poll on Friday March 30th. Let's hope for more responses to get some good data.
March 31, 2007, 07:24 PM
After break-in, my PM9 has treated me very well. How well?
Well enough that the PM9 is my summer "always" gun. I trust the PM9 so much that I sold five S&W j-frames. The Kahr hides better, shoots twice as well (in my hands), holds two more rounds. I could not justify keeping the j-frames.
Well enough that I subsequently bought it's big brother, the P45, for winter carry.
April 1, 2007, 12:13 PM
My PM9 is awesome with all types of ammo...
April 3, 2007, 11:50 AM
It's still a tough call for me. The current poll is running 85% to 15%. I haven't found anything as "carry-able" as the Kahr and I think I might have to get one and hope that it is a good one. At least after sending it back to Kahr, if that becomes necessary.
I just can't help think how many of these Kahr could sell if they had the reliability of a Glock.
April 3, 2007, 12:28 PM
Other than being close to hand, reliability is/should be the primary concern.
If you think Glocks are more reliable, then that brand is where you might want to focus.
My Kahrs work, at least they have so far...
One of them had a 'recall' for replacement of the slide stop/lock. I considered not sending it back, but since I had another, and Kahr paid the freight, I did.
Still, no problem with either.
Maybe I should have bought a lottery ticket...
Gotta tell you though, the Tupperware Kahr gets carried more than fired. The steel Kahr gets more range time.
Both have pretty much fallen into '2nd string status' since I rec'd my Colt LW Commander that was made reliable by Chuck Rogers of Rogers Precision.
Primary ammunition of choice with the Kahrs was/is Wal-Mart Ball and Cor-Bon. Both in 115 weight. The Cor-Bon 115 is rated at '+P'. A couple of folks whose obversations I respect have clocked the Cor-Bon 115s @ 1400 fps. I have no illusions that a plastic frame/steel slide, be it Kahr or Glock, is going to have lots of longetivity at that energy level.
edit for 'ez'.
If I remember right, the slide lock/release cross pin of some of the Kahrs, had a cross pin/shaft that rotated. Somehow or other this was not a better idea. Call Kahr, tell 'em whats going on.
I sent mine back before there were any malfucntions.
April 4, 2007, 01:18 AM
I initially had a problem with my Kahr PM9. Read this post (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=198416) I wrote last year for the details. Since that initial problem it has run problem free. Don't let the reliability stories scare you off, go purchase one.
The Lone Haranguer
April 4, 2007, 01:19 AM
My own (VC serial number prefix, purchased April 2006) had serious failure to return to battery problems. I sent it back and they replaced the barrel and recoil spring. It has run well since then.
April 4, 2007, 12:38 PM
Mine's been perfect. No issues or problems through hundreds of rounds. It is quite accurate too. It is also one of my "most carried" guns.
April 5, 2007, 12:56 AM
Gun functioned fine at home....
1st try: Out shooting: failure to go into battery...
sent back, fixed
2nd try: Out shooting: MMC sights fell out (I shoot on a large old sheet to catch brass)
sent back and fixed again.
I just cannot trust my life to that kind of risky behavior. My P9 MMC sits at home a virgin. I will try again some day but want to keep it LNIB so I can rid myself of it.
My G20 and G32 are polymer and eat fine.
My Kahr SS models are as perfect as anyone would ever desire...My micro40 SS elite 2003 Kahr is my pocket gun.
September 10, 2007, 10:58 AM
I've had no trouble at all from day one with my PM9. Of the malfunctions listed on this post, I wonder if it's really the PM's fault or are the shooters sometimes limp wristing the firearm. It is so very small that holding it with two fingers might account for a loose grip more often than most. And a loose grip will cause a recycle malfunction. As I said, imo, great dependable firearm.
September 10, 2007, 02:42 PM
I voted that i had numerous problems after the 200 round break in. That was initially, after kahr got the problems fixed and the barrel replaced with a non-defective one, it has been flawless after the 2nd break-in.
Although not as many pm9 problems as a couple of years ago, there are still some, but i think they are getting less and less as kahr works the bugs out. I must say, i was surprised by the positive poll. I expeceted more votes to be on the failure side. :)
September 10, 2007, 09:28 PM
Wow... over a quarter of Kahr owners are experiencing numerous failures after break-in?
September 10, 2007, 11:54 PM
My third Kahr and my first polymer one, and I am very pleased. Just shot about 250 rounds this weekend without problem, very easy to point, soft shooting, and accurate. I couldn't be more pleased. I will report back after 1000 rounds.
September 11, 2007, 12:21 AM
but I don't really think that anyone should have to send their gun back in. Any firearm manufacturer should make sure that the gun is in perfect working order before they ship it the first time.
That would be nice, and in a perfect world that is the way it will be. Until then fuggetaboutit.
Have you been over to the Glock Talk Forum, subcategory Kahr?
Go check it out. Many more owners. Someone postulated that 1% or less handgun owners are on these forums. Don't jump to conclusions.
I have a late model. It was cantankerous from the onset and got worse as time went on. It has been back to the factory once and 50 rounds later ok so far. I had a brand new S&W that had to go back too after only 75 rounds.
September 11, 2007, 01:04 AM
The PM9 is my favorite carry. No issues at all after the break-in period.
September 11, 2007, 04:06 AM
I picked up a PM9 last summer. My "break-in" period was something more like 500 rounds, though I expect that had something to do with me installing the recoil spring ass backwards after breaking the pistol down for cleaning upon bring it home from the shop (whoops!).
In any event, it has since become extremely reliable. My last trip out to the range, I put 150 rounds through my Kahr (including some wide mouth Cor Bon 115 grain +p loads) without a hitch. My only real complaints are that this little gun has some serious muzzle flip for a 9mm and it is a rather expensive piece. Still, it goes into a pocket or a waistband like a dream which I guess makes up fot it's other shortcommings.
August 2, 2008, 01:40 PM
I have had my pm9 for two years. I have had trigger reset problems since I got it but initially though it would stop after break in. When it didn't I sent it back and a new trigger assembly was installed. If have shot over 300 rounds through it now and the problem has returned but now I have determined that it only occurs with the short magazines on the last round. After it fails to reset on the last round you can take the magazine out, re insert it and it will reset and fire. I have zero probelms with the extended magazines. Does anyone have an idea of what could be going on here. I have been a Police Firearms instructor since 1981 and this is the strangest complication I can ever remember. The khar is lots of things for the right reasons but I am becoming extremely cautious of trusting it for what I bought it for.
August 2, 2008, 01:44 PM
No jams during breakin period, no jams after :)
August 2, 2008, 02:37 PM
I had two or three FTFs in the first 200 rds. No probs since, but Im only at 275rd. I just took it out of my waistband a few minutes ago, it will go back in it, when I get out of the shower.
August 2, 2008, 10:41 PM
After 4 trips back to Kahr my PM9 has been reliable for the maybe 150 rds thru it since the last trip back.
Initially groups were terrible, shot 10" high and 8" right from poa, couldn't get thru a mag without ftf/ftc no matter what ammo I tried..
Kahr finally replaced the barrel and recoil spring, and modified the frame a bit. Seems ok now, but still have reservations about it. It is without a doubt a great carry piece, easy to shoot, easy to hide.
Hopefully my confidence will be restored as I get more time on the range with it.
Meanwhile my 640/357 is my carry piece, though I occasionally use a 940 or 642.
Guns and more
August 2, 2008, 10:46 PM
After about 60 rounds, no problems. I'd carry it.
August 3, 2008, 01:42 AM
our range has a rental pm9. they never clean it, and it has had a crapload of rounds through it. i rented it a few times before over hte past few months, seems to eat anything with no problem. i didn't own it though, so i can't vote.
August 3, 2008, 04:47 AM
Considering alot of people who probably never even shot one still voted (just based on what they read). Either way, this year old thread was best left in the archives- I do not see it going over well with jocko (I.E. "humm! 30% have problems interesting 13,500 rounds in my PM9 humm" etc). L.O.L.
August 3, 2008, 08:22 AM
I'm at 250 rounds and still having problems. I'm going to give it 500 before it goes back to Kahr. I've got a couple boxes of +P+ loads but havn't tried them yet. I know the recoil will be nasty and I don't plan on a steady diet but my confidence level in the PM9 is so low that I'm even wondering if I should try. I'll be shooting a friends M&P 9 compact next weekend. He's had zero problems and from what I've read, it may be a much better choice for a ccw in spite of being heavier and a little bulkier. I've always carried a J frame but wanted to switch to a bottom feeder. I'm not sure if any autoloader under 25 ounces can be as trustworthy as a Smith J. I'm trying to keep an open mind but at this point all I can say is that Kahr should be ashamed.
August 3, 2008, 10:40 AM
This is why I have not got a Khar.There thin easy to concel but they might not work and thats bad
August 3, 2008, 12:39 PM
What can I say I have a PM9 that is a total POS. It has went 13,400 flawless rounds, not one hic-cup, Perfect out of the box, goes bang every time, The nicest trigger system one could ever ask for. More accurate than I am. Should I send it back or what? Maybe I should get a glock or a gun that works better. Also bought used a k9 that now has 3500 flawless rounds through it. Very dissapointed in both of my kahrs:banghead::banghead:
August 3, 2008, 01:12 PM
I didn't vote, because the right choice isn't there.
So far, my POS isn't near as bad as jocko's. My junker only has 600 perfect rounds through it. Never a problem since day one. I've thought about shooting IDPA with it.
August 3, 2008, 01:23 PM
My PM9 has been perfect out of the box... it's even handled some hollow points that my XD choked on. I'm more than a little impressed with the Kahr's.
August 3, 2008, 01:24 PM
As I've mentioned in other threads, I've had 2 PM9's. My first one was used, and I had no troubles with it. I don't know how many rounds were thru it when I got the thing, or if it ever made a trip back to Kahr. But it was totally reliable for me.
My second (I sold off the first and missed it) has also been totally reliable, save one FTE the other day. I was running some light-ish reloads thru the gun, and out of 50 I had one FTE. The empty case kinda wedged in the small port. Tap-rack-and I was bangin' again. PM9's are known to like hotter ammo, and so I expect it to keep running 100% with normal to hot ammo. I have ~650 rounds thru this one, 173 of them GDHP +P and the rest "regular" ball.
Great guns, these things. Fun to shoot, and I'm a little more accurate with them than snubbies. I really have to stick to the practice with a snub to be a good shot with it, whereas the PM9 just rails as a defensive handgun. Target shooting won't impress you, but in fast fire it hits just where you want it. And it's probably the most comfortable IWB gun I've ever tried on. I do pocket carry at times, but I prefer belt carry, so do that more often.
Anyway, love this little thing. I'm NOT selling this one.
August 3, 2008, 02:35 PM
I would stay away form it like it was the plague. Had one went thru the "break in period" and had nothing but trouble. Sent it back to Kahr and had it returned after alot of out of pocket expense only to have the same problems. Went with a CZ Rami P and never looked back. I will never buy another Kahr product.
August 3, 2008, 03:11 PM
Not the PM9 but I do have a CW 40 with around 700 rounds though it, not one problem. It has ate everything it has been fed, go figure.
August 4, 2008, 09:06 PM
I am about 150 rounds into the break in period. If I don't pull the slide all the way back and let it slam forward, often the first round won't camber properly. Other than that it's been 100%.
August 4, 2008, 09:41 PM
Kahr does not recommend chambering a round by racking the slide. The instructions say to use the slide release when chambering the first round. Try that and I bet it works every time.
August 4, 2008, 10:37 PM
rick w. totally right there. that is what kahr recommends and one should at least do that for the first 3 or 400 rounds. Once the gun is running right and one knows how to rack a slide properly, you can slingshot it and it willbe perfect. Mine has never given an issue using the slingshot method, but if you baby the slide back, you will get issues. Thats not the guns fault. Most people tend to not read the owners manual...
August 4, 2008, 11:11 PM
If you would have sent it back to Kahr two weeks ago like I suggested you would have it back by now working on the "real" break-in. ;)
Don't keep thinking it will get better if it isn't flawless by now. Call Kahr, make them pay shipping both ways (be nice) and get an RMA.
Stick with it. You will be glad you did.
August 4, 2008, 11:57 PM
My PM9 has been flawless with 6rnd mags during and after breakin. I've had failure to feed problems with the 7rnd mag and its replacements. I just don't use them.
August 5, 2008, 12:52 AM
"Lets settle this once and for all"
Heh. You're about as likely to settle the 9mm vs 45 debate once and for all.
That said, my PM9 has had, after the first 100 rounds, zero failures of any kind. Zero. That's with about 1500 rounds through it, including everything from mildly loaded reloads to +P reloads to wwb fmj's to +P factory HP's. Wnchester HP's, Federal HST's, Gold Dots, it hasn't mattered, it eats 'em all just fine. I only use Kahr factory magazines, and I always load them to capacity.
September 30, 2008, 06:40 PM
Though I believe it ideal for pocket carry, I've just read too many negatives about it, unlike the Glocks, which are supposedly and totally reliable.
But I have no desire to pocket carry a Glock 26, whatever.
So, I am sticking with my Kahr CW9 which is a great gun, especially for the money, and the rifling is designed for reloads.
I can still pocket carry it, and I'm going to play it safe and not get a PM9, at least for now. You never hear such horror stories with the CW9 or the Glocks.
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