The Help Room (THR)


PDA






sb350hp
March 30, 2007, 09:33 PM
In the next few months I will be purchasing my first polymer "tupperware" gun in 40 or 45 cal.( most likely 40). I have had in the past a mental problem with the idea of purchasing an polymer/steel gun. Don't know why. Guess I am old fashioned and guns are supposed to be metal. So I am wrestling with purchasing one of the following: Glock, XD or the new 24/7 pro. I know the Glocks have a faithful following but they are ugly and uncomfortable, The XD is more comfortable and is getting rave reviews (I like the 1911 style grip safety), but the Taurus 24/7 is the most comfortable poly I have ever p/u and fondled, but it is a Taurus so I know 40% of gun nuts already discount it's capability.

So help me with a few questions cuz I don't trust the magazines since they are ran by a bunch of elite, know it all, cater to the marketing dept yahoos.

#1. Has anyone or how long does it take for a poly gun to wear? What I mean by that does the steel insert in the poly slide wear faster or more noticibly than say a regular steel auto?

#2. I have shot a few, sigma, and an XD. Comparively do you find shooting a poly gun causes more fatigue after a couple hundred rounds due to increased recoil? Or a heavier steel full fram because of the additional weight?

#3. It does not appear that poly guns really hold much value. Tables at the gun shows are covered in glocks, sigmas and the like. Why do you suppose that is? The fact that they don't hold much value really has me leaning towards the 24/7

If you enjoyed reading about "The Help Room (THR)" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
10-Ring
March 30, 2007, 10:07 PM
When I first got into shooting 45's, I was shooting my USP 45 and there were times I would shoot 700 to 1000 rounds per session as I got through classes. Shooting the right polygun is no big deal!
From what I've seen poly HKs hold their value better than the others.

hrgrisso
March 30, 2007, 10:21 PM
First, I have a Berretta Px4 Storm in 9mm and a SigPro in .40S&W. They both get shot a lot and look great! As for fatigue, don't tell anyone, but Polymer guns flex a little when you shoot them, so felt recoil is a snap! Literally hundreds of rounds in one session and nothing. The bark is definetly worse than the bite.

As for the value, to be honest, the only folks I know who've paid over $450 for a polymer gun are HK guys. Seriously I was out the door with my Sig for a little over $400 and I got my Berretta for $500 but that came with a holster (weekend sales package). I could sell either one for more or at least what I paid for it. Just like any gun, do your homework, shop smart and you can't go wrong. You can get most polymer guns for 400-500 except HK's. If it's over 500 I gotta say you better be getting a sweet deal (Springfields Packages ARE worth it)!

GunNut
March 30, 2007, 10:42 PM
You will not wear out the polymer frame on any of the current semi-auto guns out there.

Pick the one that fits your hand and budget, then shoot it until you are comfortable with it.


The Sigma and Glock are worlds apart as far as quality and bang for the buck. The Sigma's are cheap because they are cheap quality guns. The Glock's are cheap because there are tens to hundreds of thousands of LEO trade-ins on the market.

Spend your money on a quality gun, ie: Glock, HK, Walther, Beretta, XD and possibly Taurus 24/7. Leave the Sigma's to the Hi-point crowd.

Steve

briansp82593
March 30, 2007, 11:22 PM
+1 on the sigma's
wannabe glocks, but no competition

joesolo
March 31, 2007, 07:58 PM
I'd buy a Glock without a second thought. Polymer as far as I am concerned is just as good as a metal gun. I have seen no wear that I can detect from any of my Glocks. Not sure about resale value but guns aren't an item I think about that with anyway. YOu can always get a Hogue grip for the Glock and maybe improve the feel. I like mine and have three of them. They are 100% trouble free and have never failed to function. Polymer is a good thing. Tupperware is not bad either I suppose.

SouthpawShootr
March 31, 2007, 08:20 PM
:rolleyes: Didn't take long for the Sigma bashers to come out. Sigmas are cheap b/c the tooling is completely paid for. As long as S&W covers materials and worksmanship, they're set. I've had two that have been solid performers. Are they in the same league as the Glock? No. Shameless copies? I think they're copies with a little tweaking (largely an unsuccessful attempt to avoid patent issues - which is OT and I don't want to discuss).

OK, XD (though I don't care for them), are excellent SD guns. IIRC Chuck Taylor has written a couple of articles about one that he's trying to shoot to death (with little success). Last I read, round count is somewhere in the 100k range. Glocks have a well-documented knack for being tough as well.

Glocks will hold their value best, b/c they're in fashion right now. Nice XDs can generally be had used for $300-350 (my first one looked unfired and cost me $325 OTD). Sigmas and Taurus are $300 guns, so it doesn't surprise me that they're super cheap used. Anybody who gets their money out of guns, either bought them a long, long time ago (can you say Colt SAA?) or bought them far below street prices. So don't expect that you can ever get what you paid back out of a gun, at least without holding it for quite a while.

As far as extended range sessions, I'd have to get in excess of 500 rounds in a single session with a full, service sized polymer gun before it would cause fatigue. I've done this before when I had several new guns that I wanted to try out. So don't worry there.

Oh, incidentally, check out the SigPro. Nice guns. Good buys and solid performance.

Glocks, BTW, are my favorite, but you don't sound predisposed to them, so I'm not going to do a sales pitch.

loplop
March 31, 2007, 08:51 PM
I just picked up a HK as a poly alternative to my standard SIG carry guns. I shot a boatload of rounds through a USPc and P2000 (as well as my SIG P239) and to tell you the truth recoil wasn't much different between them. HK uses a recoil reduction buffer, perhaps that helped offset the lighter weight.

FWIW, the recoil buffer system is supposed to work better in 40/45 than in the 9 I shoot. 9 doesn't have much recoil, so YMMV of course.

I had a Kahr PM9 poly, and the frame was IMO poorly finished. I didn't have any problems with it per se, but the little plastic shavings that regularly came off didn't engender a feeling of longevity. Glocks seem to be built much better.

I liked the feel of the Glocks quite a bit; but the grip angle is very wrong for me and I always pointed them high. I guess you'd get used to it, but to tell you the truth I didn't feel like getting used to it.

I really wanted to like the XD, but came away a little underwhelmed by it. It just wasn't my bag.

I liked the HK alot, and shot it quite well, so I jumped. I will say one thing for certain: the lighter weight of poly guns is absolutely noticeable on the belt! A nice plus.

MPanova
April 1, 2007, 01:35 AM
As far as quality and reliability the three pistols you mentioned are on the same playing field. Get the one that fits your hand and is most comfortable. If that is the 24/7 then you get the added little bonus of saving about a hundred bucks. Take that money go buy some ammo and have fun shooting your new pistol ;) I have 2 of the 24/7 in 45acp and I have sence sold my G21

waynedm
April 1, 2007, 01:41 AM
If you don't like the Glock but want a polymer I'd suggest get a PX4 Beretta or Smith M+P. The PX4s shoot dang nice. Try one. If you're not on a budget so much go for a HK, as they're the best polymers out there.

Rotorflyr
April 1, 2007, 02:13 AM
Of the original choices mentioned I'd go with the Taurus, they make a fine gun and if the 24/7 felt right in your hand, why not go for it.

Other then that I'd look at Walther P99's and S&W M+P's
The PX4 is supposed to be nice, but I found it to be bulky in my hands (though I may pick one up waaaay down the road anyway)


For these questions:
#1. Has anyone or how long does it take for a poly gun to wear? What I mean by that does the steel insert in the poly slide wear faster or more noticibly than say a regular steel auto?

Nope the insert shouldn't wear any faster

#2. I have shot a few, sigma, and an XD. Comparively do you find shooting a poly gun causes more fatigue after a couple hundred rounds due to increased recoil? Or a heavier steel full fram because of the additional weight?

Not speaking for everyone (as we're all different) I think it will depend on the size (ie:compact vs full size) of the gun more then what it's made from


#3. It does not appear that poly guns really hold much value. Tables at the gun shows are covered in glocks, sigmas and the like. Why do you suppose that is? The fact that they don't hold much value really has me leaning towards the 24/7

I think the main reason you see so many Glocks*, Sigmas etc on the show tables is three fold:
1) The cost less to make and (for the most part) sell
2) Because of #1 there are a lot more of them made
3) With the majority of states in the US having some form of CCW license, the polymer guns are more popular due to the lighter weight, making them more comfortable to carry (not that everyone is bothered by the weight of a steel gun)



*Glocks also flooded the market at one time and now while they still have a good following, they aren't as popular as they once were, which means more of them are being "unloaded" (no pun intended) at shows

snscott
April 1, 2007, 06:19 PM
I "cut my teeth" more than 25 yers ago on a Colt Series 70 1911 (all metal), and to this day I STILL just instinctively shoot 1911's more accurately from a quick draw. However, that said, I do still like my plastic frame guns as well such as the HK USPf 45, the M&P 40, and my most commonly CCW, an XD Service .45.

Concerning Taurus, I hear grumblings about their quality that just don't jive with my own personal experiences because I have both an old school Taurus .357 magnum revolver, and a new PT1911 and the quality and craftsmanship seem fine to me (but I am certainly no metallurgy expert). My stock Taurus 1911 feels better in my hand than my Colt Series 70 (I can't explain why, though). I fully expect to get a Stainless Taurus 1911 when they hit the market, and I plan to look really hard at the new OSS .45 they have coming out this year as well.

Taurus has a LIFETIME warranty, so if you like the feel of the 24/7 - get it. If it has problems, keep sending it back to Taurus until they fix it (hell, I had to send my "quality" S&W M&P back to the factory after just 300 rounds). Every gun manufacturer, including those Armament Gods, HK, produces instances of lemons -- this is just something that is going to happen (more regularly than some would like to admit). Nice thing is, they can always be re-worked and tuned and adjusted (example - S&W completely replaced the frame on my M&P to fix it).

If you enjoyed reading about "The Help Room (THR)" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!