SHTF daydreamers


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Aaryq
April 1, 2007, 01:36 PM
Howdy, folks. I see quite a few SHTF scenarios on this site...heck, I've posted some, myself. That said, I have 2 questions:

1. What makes the idea of SHTF Scenarios so appealing and easy to day-dream about?

2. Of all of the situations out there, Skynet, Zombies, Civil War, Jihad in America, etcetra...what's the most likely SHTF in your opinion?

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bogie
April 1, 2007, 01:48 PM
The Spice Girls Reunion Tour.

zinj
April 1, 2007, 01:51 PM
There are two kinds of SHTF discussion. One is people who want to be prepared for an eventuality like Katrina, where social order is disrupted for a period of time. The other SHTF discussion seems to revolve around the Zombie UN invasion of the US and tactical wheelbarrows.

Liberty1776
April 1, 2007, 01:53 PM
1. Eliminates the necessity of going to work tomorrow and facing the boss. Also, think of all the neat, free stuff we get to pick up then, while scavenging.

2. Civil War II will be driven by the Jihad in America, fueled by a Democratic liberal majority in the White House, Senate, and House. Don't bypass a consortium of Russia, China and North Korea giving it a hand, either.

Hmmnh... I think I've covered all the bases.

I also don't really believe it will ever happen cataclysmically - it will be a long, drawn out process, over about 50 years. :(

bogie
April 1, 2007, 01:56 PM
Imagine what the Spice Girls are gonna look like 50 years from now...

tmajors
April 1, 2007, 02:00 PM
In order most likely to least likely imo

1) Jihad in America
2) Civil War or Second Revolution
3) MAJOR natural disaster - Katrina style break down in NYC for example
4) War on our soil with another country (not the same as Jihad)
5) Pandemic breaking down the social system
6) Perfect storm of a combination of a few or all of the above, one setting off another in a downward spiral.
7) Extraterrestrial invasion!
8) Robot uprising (ala Skynet, 'I, Robot', or Cylon revolt)
9) Zombies

Think that covers it

EDIT: Forgot extraterrestrial invasion!

Nil
April 1, 2007, 02:25 PM
IMHO it's extremely unlikely for a complete nationwide social order breakdown any time in the foreseeable future. So for me, SHTF situations involve some type of Katrina-esque natural disaster where you'll be completely on your own for a minimum of a week. Though considering I live in the middle of Wisconsin, the only real natural disaster we have here are tornadoes, which while they may cause incredible destruction, they do so on such a limited area that even a week is unlikely.

DoubleTapDrew
April 1, 2007, 02:28 PM
What makes the idea of SHTF Scenarios so appealing and easy to day-dream about?

Because it'll give us the chance to yell "WOLVERINES!" :p

cbsbyte
April 1, 2007, 02:36 PM
The Spice Girls Reunion Tour

Dude, you just runied the rest of the day with that image. Ugh.


Anyway, I really don't think about SHTF scenarios. I have enough on my plate to think about than have to worry about doomsday predictions, or WWIII. When it happens, if it ever happens, then I will worry about it. We also don't have that many major natural disaster in New England. Besides nasty winter weather, and regional floods we don't worry about natural disasters. Though we could have a major earthquake or Hurricane it is just unlikly in the near future.

Baba Louie
April 1, 2007, 02:47 PM
What makes the idea of SHTF Scenarios so appealing and easy to day-dream about?It's the "Walter Mittyesque survival/pioneer self reliance, "Badges? we don' need no stinkin' badges" strong he-man "could I make it if it really happens to me and mine" sorta daydream.

And the proper answer (in my daydreams at least) is always "Yes" and "Yes again, for I am an American by Gawd!" :D

Other than that, it's just the Boy Scout philosophy of being prepared and helping others coupled with the strong individual survival of the fittest personality working away in our id/ego. It's a normal thing to ponder. Probably better not to mention it around friends without some snickering about the tinfoil chapeau mindset. I prefer to line the inside of all of my hats with the really heavy duty alumfoil as a sort of "he looks like a normal American to me" camoflage. (cuts down on unwanted snickers and "They" don't know where I'm hiding out... but I know where "They" are. "They're" all around us, even now. :p )

Most likely?

Civil unrest brought about by any one of several factors, mostly weather related I'd think... but I do remember the Rodney King riots going on in Las Vegas back in 92, thinking... ??? Las Vegas??? All this while I was stuck in Stillwater MN touring the Andersen Windows plant while a perfectly good potential SHTF storm was going on back home (where my family was doing quite well without me... darnit) about 5 miles from our house.

Oh well, better luck next time. :rolleyes:

lee n. field
April 1, 2007, 02:57 PM
all of the situations out there, Skynet, Zombies, Civil War, Jihad in America, etcetra...what's the most likely SHTF in your opinion?

Localized civil unrest after Some Bad Thing happens. It's the one that actually has happened, multiple times (New Orleans after Katrina, Los Angeles after the Rodney King verdict).

Spice Girls are gonna look like 50 years from now

Spice Crones?

JWarren
April 1, 2007, 03:34 PM
What makes the idea of SHTF Scenarios so appealing and easy to day-dream about?

Because I've already been through it once, and will be prepared for the next one.


Of all of the situations out there, Skynet, Zombies, Civil War, Jihad in America, etcetra...what's the most likely SHTF in your opinion?


Natural Disaster.


John

DMK
April 1, 2007, 03:44 PM
Quote:
What makes the idea of SHTF Scenarios so appealing and easy to day-dream about?

Because I've already been through it once, and will be prepared for the next one.
Quite seriously, I think that's the root of it.

Rhetorical question: Have you ever been through a really bad hurricane and was the hero of your family/friends/neighbors because you were the only one who had plenty of water, nonperishable food, full tank of LP for cooking/hot water, electricity from a generator, etc? It's a good feeling when you are able to be there when folks you care about need you most.

Some folks think about this stuff way to much. Some folks don't think about it nearly enough.

I for one actually love a good hurricane or snowstorm where the power goes out, streets are somewhat impassible, you're on your own without today's niceties for a week or two. Freinds and family share what they have. A little bartering goes on. If people would prepare just a little, this generally would be no big deal.

ctdonath
April 1, 2007, 03:44 PM
1. What makes the idea of SHTF Scenarios so appealing and easy to day-dream about?"There is nothing so exhilarating as being shot at and missed." - Churchill

People are naturally drawn to the idea of reaching the brink of existence and surviving through their own abilities. Flip side: people are naturally scared of being overwhelmed by circumstances unto death, and want to do anything they can to avert tragedy.

People are also bored out of their minds with their daily routine, and pine for some kind of unavoidable excitement. Being unable to choose dramatically different lifestyles (thanks to debts, needs and social ties) people dream of something outside their control compelling them to sever ties and live excitement. Hence the popularity of TV/movies.

Being a long-term Boy Scout as a kid, the "be prepared" was ingrained (not that it needed much help to). Preparation can only be ongoing if you believe it will be needed eventually.

Most people live on a razor's edge: cut a power line, cancel a credit card, and/or stop a paycheck and personal collapse is imminent. Turn off the TV and half the population would be zombified. Most couldn't survive on their own for more than a few days ... at which point they, potentially in large numbers, become YOUR problem. Last summer there was a run on gas in this area; no gas meant no getting to work (or more precisely, no coming home from work - much worse), which soon could lead to no paycheck, no grocery store restocking, no electricity, and finding myself in an apartment complex with a thousand comparably unsupplied and distressed people.

Finally: S does HTF at times. New Orleans flooded - 80% of a major city suddenly underwater. NY blacked out - a million people per square mile with no functioning infrastructure. LA riots - city on fire, police/fire/military pulled out. Indonesian tsunami - quarter million people dead in minutes. ... and so on, overlooking the overlooked incidents which did not involve newsworthy populations yet affected the residents just as much.

2. Of all of the situations out there, Skynet, Zombies, Civil War, Jihad in America, etcetra...what's the most likely SHTF in your opinion?Grand scenario? Civil war. Methinks we're approaching a point where political issues have been clearly divided, and dialog is becoming pointless as those on each side have little interest in mutual understanding with their demonized opponents. Personal and national debt is heading toward the breaking point. Fiat currencies tend toward hyperinflation. Illegal immigrants feel just as much a right to be here as anyone else - by the tens of millions, multiplied by their friends. City cores rotting out. ...at some point, enough people will simultaneously find reason to stop cooperating, and quickly learn that power comes from the barrel of a gun.

Personal scenario? Environmental disaster or financial breakdown. One well-placed tornado and my world reboots. Paychecks stop for too long for whatever reason and I'll face not having a self-sufficient homestead.

Drifting Fate
April 1, 2007, 03:53 PM
1. It's an excuse to buy more guns (like we need one) and offers a target rich environment.

2. Zombies, because, man, everyone hates zombies.

RangerVA
April 1, 2007, 04:06 PM
Civil War 2 (Civil Harder)

cheygriz
April 1, 2007, 04:37 PM
IMHO, the most likely scenario would involve a partial breakdown of social order following a well coordinated series of terrorist attacks with nuclear, biological or chemical weapons. The most likely bewing radioactive "dirty bombs" and not a true nuclear weapon. Although those "true nuclear weapons" can't be completely ruled out. Do I think it's likely?? Well........maybe one chance in a hundred in our lifetime.

Secondly, it causes us to do something that AMERICANS TRULY HATE!!!:mad: It forces us to THINK!:eek: And hopefully to prepare, so that a minor disaster like a hurricane, earthquake, etc won't catch us with our pants completely down.


And, MOST IMPORTANTLY BY FAR it gives us a logical(:confused: ) excuse to buy a whole lotta guns and other really neat stuff and squirrel it away!:D :p :D

Mainsail
April 1, 2007, 04:41 PM
Mt. Rainier becoming (even mildly) active, and the lahar that will follow if it does. That’ll be on par with, or worse than, Katrina. I figure there’ll be a serious breakdown in the social order for a while as the dirtbags crawl out of the woodwork like roaches to prey on the rest of us, while the police are overwhelmed.

Lupinus
April 1, 2007, 04:43 PM
To me there are three types of SHTF daydreams.

1) Realistic- Things that are quite likely to happen and are serious and SHTF, but not end of the world SHTF. Katrina style stuff and the most likely to happen.

2) Non-likely Realistic- Things which could realistically happen and are serious SHTF but not so likely to happen. Second civil war, new revoloution, actual invasion of America by another country, massive civil breakdown due to whatever reason, etc. Agian things within the realm of possibility but not to likely to happen.

3) Non-likely Non-realistic- Things which are neither likely to happen and are non-realistic without some maaaajor change in our knowledge of the universe lol. Zombies, vampire armies, alien invasion, judgment day, skynet, hordes of rabid gerbils, etc.

another okie
April 1, 2007, 04:44 PM
"Civil War 2 (Civil Harder)"

Now that's funny right there, I don't care who you are.

El Tejon
April 1, 2007, 04:48 PM
Aar, it's escapism. The day to day grind of life is so dull that many engage in Peter Pan Syndrome and dream of bears, pumas and shtf.

Those who seek to be prepared simply do it and do not spend hours preparing against fictional bears, pumas, unicorns and, as was said on TFL, "mutant zombie bears that know ninjitsu".:D

Vern Humphrey
April 1, 2007, 05:09 PM
Most survival situations fall into two categories:

1. At home -- Hurricanes, Ice Storms (common here in the Ozarks), riots, and so on.

2. Travelling -- getting stuck on a back road, falling and breaking a leg while hunting, and so on.

To be prepared for the first category, study past incidents. Here in the Ozarks, I keep my basement stocked with canned goods, lanterns, and so on and have a Buck Stove in the basement for heat. The wife and I have lived in the basement for a week at a time when ice storms knocked all the power out. We also have a chainsaw (and have had to cut our way out through fallen trees) and tire chains.

For travelling, we keep flashlights, first aid kits, maps, cell phones , GPS and so on when venturing off road in unfamiliar territory.

thexrayboy
April 1, 2007, 05:11 PM
Playing the whatif's in the SHTF derby is an amusing mental exercise. It's a variation on the Pentagons wargaming. Most military contingency plans have a way less than 1% chance of actually being needed. Same with the SHTF planning. But it is a useful mental exercise in that it causes people to evaluate, reevaluate and refine plans for their future. Most scenarios as
have been stated are remotely possible at the moment. The only credible threat that is a virtual guarnatee at least on localized levels is weather.

Terrorist attacks are probable. We have to catch them 100% of the time to stop them, they only have to get lucky once so the odds are sooner or later another significant attack will occur. Civil unrest is also possible. It has happened before, it is happening elsewhere right now and we are not immune to it.

Zombies, aliens not likely. Zombies are a metabolic and physiologic impossibility, as for aliens I heard a quote once that stated that "the surest
evidence that intelligent life exists in the universe is the fact that they have
not announced their presence to us."

Skynet, I Robot scenarios are not possible now. 50 years from now they will be possible. 100 years from now they will be extremely possible. Computer science is advancing at such a rate that we will likely see sentient machines by the end of this century, perhaps by mid century. After that all bets are off. Think M5 from Star Trek....."this unit must survive".

All these make good excuses to buy it cheap and stack it deep. If you can find it. Now where was that sportsmansguide catalog?

Aaryq
April 1, 2007, 05:20 PM
Don't get me wrong folks. I think daily of SHTF situations...actually mine is more TEOTWAWKI. NOT FANTISIZING about it, but more...thinking "what if" to what I see around me.

glockman19
April 1, 2007, 05:21 PM
In order most likely to least likely imo

1) Jihad in America
2) Civil War or Second Revolution
3) MAJOR natural disaster - Katrina style break down in NYC for example
4) War on our soil with another country (not the same as Jihad)
5) Pandemic breaking down the social system
6) Perfect storm of a combination of a few or all of the above, one setting off another in a downward spiral.
7) Extraterrestrial invasion!
8) Robot uprising (ala Skynet, 'I, Robot', or Cylon revolt)
9) Zombies

Think that covers it

My list In order most likely to least likely :
1) MAJOR natural disaster - Katrina style break down in NYC for example, Earthquake in California
2) Weather related, heatwaves, electrical shortages, water shortages, food shortages.
3) Gasoline prices, I think they get so high that crime prevails as less fortunate try in every way possible to get money for gasoline. more home burglaries, home invasion robberies, holdups.
4) Terrorism related, use your imagination. Maybe the pet food scare is the canary in the coal mine and we are already experiencing food and agricultural terrorism by food poisioning. We've already had spinach?
5) Disease Pandemic breaking down the social system
6) A combination of a few or all of the above, one setting off another in a downward spiral.

HiroProX
April 1, 2007, 05:35 PM
Because I don't like being caught by surprise by anything nature or my "fellow men" cook up.

Mr White
April 1, 2007, 05:37 PM
Everyone's just dancing around the true reasons here....

Punching holes in paper, tin cans, old computers, bottles of Tannerite, ... loses some of its excitement after awhile.

And

Mad Max, The Road Warrior and Red Dawn were DAMN COOL MOVIES and deep down we all see ourselves as Mel Gibson and Partrick Swayze.

torpid
April 1, 2007, 05:41 PM
Mad Max, The Road Warrior and Red Dawn were DAMN COOL MOVIES and deep down we all see ourselves as Mel Gibson and Partrick Swayze.

Nah.
More like Bruce Spence and Powers Boothe.

dasmi
April 1, 2007, 05:45 PM
The most likely events in my area are:
1) Fire
2) Earthquake
3) Something very bad happening to San Diego, or the military bases in San Diego, caused by an enemy group.

Nomad, 2nd
April 1, 2007, 05:49 PM
1. I do not daydream about it. I have experenced several
-Icestorms, Katrina, Iraq
So I want to be prepared.

2. Local events, Like the above, or economic situations.

TheLastBoyScout
April 1, 2007, 07:06 PM
Well for me...

Most likely/minor?

Hurricanes. 2 for 2 as far as hurricanes v. hurricane seasons since I've been in Charleston.

The first time the house I evacd to got broken into while I was there. The homeowners were flaming libs, but of course their first question after was "Hey, where was your gun?"... my answer-- "back home, and would you really like to have been cleaning up that kind of mess and dealing with those questions over $40?;) :what: "

My firearms related preps are basically non-existant. I have at the very least an AK stored somewhere in town with plentiful ammo, but I'd have that anyway for weekend range trips.

Most likely/major?

Civil War. Part 2. Rise of the Red States.

bogie
April 1, 2007, 07:14 PM
Most likely/major?

Civil War. Part 2. Rise of the Red States.

Or more likely, collapse of the blue states when the food gets cut off...

ONE WEEK.

W.E.G.
April 1, 2007, 07:39 PM
need motivation to eat those nearly-expired MRE's in the basement

bensdad
April 1, 2007, 08:30 PM
SHTF? When every dog over about 45 lbs realizes it can kill its owner. We're doomed I say...

JWarren
April 2, 2007, 12:10 AM
Frankly, the assertion that preparedness is living out some kind of "I want to be a movie hero" fantasy is insulting.

I rarely thought about this kind of stuff before 2005. In fact, I had an uncle that DID do SHTF preparedness who died the year before Katrina. Everyone thought (including me) that he was a little off his rocker.

No one says that about him anymore. Most people that knew him now say they regret that they thought that way about him---

Especially since his widow was left being the most prepared person in our area. AND she freely helped others that were not as fortunate as she was.


Anyone accusing people who have chosen to prepare as living out some adolescent fantasy is welcome to come live through the next Katrina with me. When you live it, you WILL have a different perspective.


John

bpsig
April 2, 2007, 12:20 AM
well lets see work and local gov saying we should look at it. State workers I used to work with carry 2 wks gear in trunk. The local shut down prep gear buying basically your on your own or wait til fed arrive. NOPE Stay aware of your surroundings is basic saftey.
+1 on natural disaster expecting at least 3 this year to move people like in Katrinna. Ca fires is deliberate so . JIhad and or other is building from the pc war routine. Remember old days to win war find and shot the enemy but then again 30-06 works wonders on getting someones attention. The local power plant s build on a fault line so who really thnks ahead ? My m-4 falls apart in requal the issue that is , my personal works fine until get near sand. No I think it's everu adults responsibility to plan ahead and watch out for your family.
Trust the politicians ?
:eek:

22-rimfire
April 2, 2007, 12:22 AM
SHTF scenarios are just fun mental exercises that result in the purchase of lots of extra stuff that you probably will never need, only want. Guns included.

I have a kerosene heater that I have never taken out of the box. That means nothing bad has happened for about 10 years in my neighborhood. Worst thing that has happened in my neighborhood is a tree was blown down and blocked the road for about 4 hours. :) Park and walk to the house.

.cheese.
April 2, 2007, 12:28 AM
worst case I can think of: Rosie becomes president.

JWarren
April 2, 2007, 12:36 AM
SHTF scenarios are just fun mental exercises that result in the purchase of lots of extra stuff that you probably will never need, only want.


I used to say that, too.


Worst thing that has happened in my neighborhood is a tree was blown down and blocked the road for about 4 hours.


No offense, but try 8 weeks with no electricity, no running water, no air conditioning, no communications, no emergency personnel, most food supply ruined from thawing.

I recognize that many parts of the US do not have as great a potential for a disaster as the Southeast does, but they do have uncertainties as well:

Think of the recent ice storms in the west. Also, think of the blackouts a while back in the Northeast. Mt. Rainier has been mentioned. Check out the swell that has been forming in the Yellowstone supervolcano. Tennessee, as well as other interior states have a risk of earthquake. Residents of California already know their risk of earthquake. The west coast will always have the potential of tsunami.

Sure, statistically none of that is probable. And that doesn’t mean there are not basic things everyone should have on hand due to possible hick-ups in their overall perfect world.

Nothing is worse than being in a position where there is great need all around you, and you are unable to meet those needs. I know. I hope you never do.


John

Prince Yamato
April 2, 2007, 12:58 AM
Don't forget Riots! Though politically incorrect to mention, there's always the occasional race riot (or something similar).

Ryder
April 2, 2007, 12:59 AM
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/sitchin2.htm

Nematocyst
April 2, 2007, 01:08 AM
I request the moderators notice that
I'm just going to quietly walk away from this thread,
keeping my lips sealed as I do so.

Nope. I'm not going to play here.

Que sera, sera.

skeeter1
April 2, 2007, 01:18 AM
Not a problem.

Eliminates the necessity of going to work tomorrow and facing the boss.

Just call up and tell your boss "The voices told me to stay home and clean the guns today." :D

Logan5
April 2, 2007, 01:27 AM
1. What makes the idea of SHTF Scenarios so appealing and easy to day-dream about?

2. Of all of the situations out there, Skynet, Zombies, Civil War, Jihad in America, etcetra...what's the most likely SHTF in your opinion?

Ask me the question, bridgekeeper, I'm not afraid!

Answer to question #1: Look at qestion #2. The uncountable, untold bajilion hojillions of Hollywood dollars that resulted in most of my DVD collection. I'm not saying I'll purchase a firearm because it's what I'd use to help Rowdy Roddy Piper rescue women who were hot stuff when I was 14 from a post apocalyptic town filled with angry killer mutant frogs, but if you ask me, "What gun for mutant frogs?" I'm going to post, because this here is the Intertron! and I have an opinion.

Question the second: Zombies. Every filmaker a Zombie bites gets up and makes a sequel. The people they kill... get up and make Part III... and so on. Skynet is thrashed after the travesty that was Terminator III. Why did they not follow the books, I wonder? Those rocked.


P.S.
If you wanted the serious answer, why did you ask on April 1st?

helpless
April 2, 2007, 01:46 AM
Quote:
In order most likely to least likely imo

1) Jihad in America
2) Civil War or Second Revolution
3) MAJOR natural disaster - Katrina style break down in NYC for example
4) War on our soil with another country (not the same as Jihad)
5) Pandemic breaking down the social system
6) Perfect storm of a combination of a few or all of the above, one setting off another in a downward spiral.
7) Extraterrestrial invasion!
8) Robot uprising (ala Skynet, 'I, Robot', or Cylon revolt)
9) Zombies

Think that covers it

My list In order most likely to least likely :

1) MAJOR natural disaster - Katrina style break down in NYC for example, Earthquake in California
2) Weather related, heatwaves, electrical shortages, water shortages, food shortages.
3) Gasoline prices, I think they get so high that crime prevails as less fortunate try in every way possible to get money for gasoline. more home burglaries, home invasion robberies, holdups.
4) Terrorism related, use your imagination. Maybe the pet food scare is the canary in the coal mine and we are already experiencing food and agricultural terrorism by food poisioning. We've already had spinach?
5) Disease Pandemic breaking down the social system
6) A combination of a few or all of the above, one setting off another in a downward spiral.

My list:

1) MAJOR natural disaster, Power loss for extended period of time. People go nuts.
2) Civil War or Second Revolution, we find out or government has been lying to us and people go bonkers.
3) Civil breakdown, Depression, people today dont have the balls the old timers had during their depression. Starvation, Looting, Robbery, Rape and murder.
4) Disease Pandemic breaking down the social system, Everyone is Sick or/and dieing.
5) In a time of weakness our country is attacked/invaded. Not like 9/11, I mean a real attack, i.e. troops on our ground, Camps set up, Country cut in half, Battlefield America. Little Chinese Ninjas Para shooting in my backyard. RED DAWN Style. ( I know it was Russians & Cuba )
6) Perfect storm of a combination of a few or all of the above, one setting off another in a downward spiral.

Not on my actual list, unlike 1-6 it is only a fantasy.
7) Zombies i.e. World War Z style.
This would be fun. Who wants to shoot their neighbor because they have gone hungry and decide the they need your food more then you do.

I would much rather Shoot my neighbor because he is trying to eat my wifes brains.
:eek:

Roadwild17
April 2, 2007, 01:55 AM
SHTF, anytime Wallyworld will be closed for a few days. People need there stuff, not many people thing more than 2 or 3 days in advance, if they are even thinking that far ahead.

cwmcgu2
April 2, 2007, 02:00 AM
I think Tyler Durden summed the mindset up in the movie Fight Club:
Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

Many of us dream of a SHTF scenario because of our disillusionment with society. We are unsatisfied, troubled, and frightened by the structures of our government and culture. We feel insignificant and powerless. Due to this, we dream that one day society will crumble to a primal state. No FBI, IRS, Police, City Council, US Senate, no infrustructure of any kind. In such a world a man's own destiny lies solely in the power of his own two hands. In such a world justice is not decided by 2 years of court battles, but a pull of the trigger. We dream that from the ashes we will rebuild America to the ideals upon which it was founded. We will define ourselves by how we respond to the chaos around us.

That's my basic opinion for the moment, but thank's for making me think about it guys, it's a great idea for my next thesis.

helpless
April 2, 2007, 02:07 AM
Many of us dream of a SHTF scenario because of our disillusionment with society. We are unsatisfied, troubled, and frightened by the structures of our government and culture. We feel insignificant and powerless. Due to this, we dream that one day society will crumble to a primal state. No FBI, IRS, Police, City Council, US Senate, no infrustructure of any kind. In such a world a man's own destiny lies solely in the power of his own two hands. In such a world justice is not decided by 2 years of court battles, but a pull of the trigger. We dream that from the ashes we will rebuild America to the ideals upon which it was founded. We will define ourselves by how we respond to the chaos around us.

That's my basic opinion for the moment, but thank's for making me think about it guys, it's a great idea for my next thesis.

wow, great explanation. I think I almost cried a little. ;)

bogie
April 2, 2007, 02:17 AM
Tyler's right (he is right because I know I'm right...)...

But there's still other stuff...

Frankly, the assertion that preparedness is living out some kind of "I want to be a movie hero" fantasy is insulting.


I'm the Bert Gummer of my neighborhood.

When I was in the city, I was the guy who the girls in the apt bldg bothered to (a) kill possums in the basement (at least until the killin' started...); or (b) drive vagrants from the basement (hello? local lawdawgs? we gots us a squatter...). They thought that since I walked out to my truck with an evil gun case occasionally that I was gonna shoot a bum? C'mon!

Out here now in the 'burbs (been a coupla years... I find myself getting edgy when I go into midtown now - because I can feel that my "condition dark orange" has subsided... it used to be natural, and now I have to work at it...), I'm the guy with the generator. I'm the guy who has people over for movies in The Bunker (the home theater is sorta designed in a, well... Knob Creek sorta fashion...). Then again, I feel sorta bad, because I'm sure that some of my neighbors have almost as many boomsticks... Note to self - KCR is next week....

mordechaianiliewicz
April 2, 2007, 02:21 AM
#1.) The people who think about the SHTF thing generally are the sort who idolize on a certain level the "yeoman farmer" idea of America's past. This ideal might be long dead, but many of us like it.

Myself, I am going to school to be a nurse, and at the same time can do carpentry, and plumbing, and am attempting to learn how to weld. I wish to know many things so that I can be the modern version. I'd also like to live in a rural area on some land.

Notice (much more important is this), most of these fantasies end with the hero living on a ranch or farm in the Western or Southern states, living out the ideal of the early Republic.

#2.) There are only two possibilities. One is of course the SHTF after a natural disaster (which is common, and will happen somewhere in the country, in everyone's lifetime, atleast once).

The second believe is a Civil War. Brought on by the debt situation getting out of hand, illegal immigrants (now angry, and without jobs to steal), and various sides deciding the now weakened fedgov need not be listened to. While much less likely, it is possible if we as a nation don't do a 180 degree turnaround on a lot of our policies in this country.

Hardware
April 2, 2007, 06:43 AM
You are all thinking too small on the natural disasters. Here's one that nobody has mentioned. Global natural disaster. The more unlikely of the two (at least in my lifetime) is the planetary magnetic poles reversing. The geological record shows that this has happened several times in the past. Nobody knows the impact, but since we're looking for a worst case scenario, let's say it acts like a planet wide EMP.

Katie bar the door!

And of course, asteroid impact. If it is a dinosaur killer and you happen to be in the same hemisphere, it is probably not survivable, surely not long term. But the other hemisphere and the equatorial region should sustain life. Dinosaurs died out because of their mass. Plenty of life survived the mass extinction, it was all small. And those were animals who had no control over their environment. Man would fare better.

CajunBass
April 2, 2007, 07:58 AM
I think I enjoy them because I read Robert Heinlein's "Tunnel in the Sky" when I was a kid.

I think a lot of us would like an opportunity to just start over with a clean sheet of paper.

.cheese.
April 2, 2007, 08:28 AM
Hardware - I think you're envisioning pole reversal wrong.

First of all, it doesn't just happen spontaneously in a day. It happens over a long period of time. No, it is not like a global EMP.

Also, as for impact, we've historically survived it before. It would screw up a lot of equipment, but we'd adapt. We've done it before and we'll do it again.

brerrabbit
April 2, 2007, 08:28 AM
Who fantasizes?

I own a farm, collectively my family owns the 820 acres surrounding my farm. We have livestock, weapons, stored food supplies, farm implements, seed, etc.

I like civilization, I like being able to zone out on the sci-fi channel on some nights. I do not idealize SHTF or TEOTWAWKI, I truly understand what it entails and would prefer civilization over it.

While I would never like to have a SHTF situation ever hit, I have prepared for it.

ozwyn
April 2, 2007, 08:42 AM
Between Katrina and the LA riots you can expect a regional, short term SHTF almost every ten years.

Not being prepared is ignoring history.

I am voting for earthquake as the next big SHTF. California if we are lucky (more prepared) and mississipi fault line if we are not (less prepared, worse earthquake history in the fault line, more national infrastructure hit)

The mississipi fault line is the more worrysome since the last time it hit it blew out windows in New York, and did would be a horrendous disaster to every less-than-perpared city along said river.

A disaster of that scale might even be bad enough to kick in other SHTF scenarios involving blue helmets on US soil. (unlikely, but possible)

bogie
April 2, 2007, 09:40 AM
I'm not saying I'll purchase a firearm because it's what I'd use to help Rowdy Roddy Piper rescue women who were hot stuff when I was 14 from a post apocalyptic town filled with angry killer mutant frogs, but if you ask me, "What gun for mutant frogs?"

You ever wanna see someone walk on water? My girlfriend must have seen Frogs when she was a kid or something... Was in her folks' pool one evening, one jumped in, and she just _levitated_. She's scared bleepless of the cute little critters.

So... Soon to come in Bogie's Bunker - I've got both Frogs and the Roddy Piper flick on order...

But hey, the SHTF thing goes WAY back... Cinematically into the fifties, at least... But I think it came into its own in the seventies - I mean, who wouldn't want to drive a big RV through the wastelands?

Justin
April 2, 2007, 09:46 AM
Closing silly and over-the-top SHTF threads: Part of the job.

For everything else, there's Strategies & Tactics.

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