FMJ to "mushrooming-type"


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trueblue1776
April 1, 2007, 03:11 PM
If you cut the tip off a FMJ will it work like a SP?

If it does will a game warden buy it?

We are required to use mushrooming ammo for larger game in AL, and I'm a cheapo.

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R.W.Dale
April 1, 2007, 03:24 PM
If you cut the tip off a FMJ will it work like a SP?

If it does will a game warden buy it?

NO

We are required to use mushrooming ammo for larger game in AL, and I'm a cheapo.

If you think that way please do yourself and every other sportsman in Alabama a favor. Stay home

xd45gaper
April 1, 2007, 03:34 PM
a box of SP ammo costs what 20$?

PotatoJudge
April 1, 2007, 03:43 PM
Less for Remingon Core-Lokts, which are not bad rounds. There's also Prvi, Wolf, FNM and others for about $0.60 a round. Federal has been on sale a couple of places recently for about $12 a box.

Practice with your FMJ, shoot a few hunting rounds to sight in your gun, and spend the $15 a year to keep out of trouble and make cleaner kills on game. Just don't take long shots if you're shooting that little of your hunting ammo.

sumpnz
April 1, 2007, 05:51 PM
Cutting the tip off an FMJ is a good way to get the jacket stuck in the bore.

If you ant to be a cheapo with your hunting ammo, find someone that wants to get out of reloading, or just buy a really cheap press and other equipment (Lee Anniversary Kits are uner $100 IIRC and include everything but caliber specific dies). Then get the cheapest bulk soft points (Remington Core Lokt's are a good choice for that), an appropriate but inexpensive canister of powder, CCI 200 Large Rifle primers (~$15/1000, or $2/100), and scroung some brass from the shooting range if you don't already have a bunch and you're ready to reload.

H&Hhunter
April 1, 2007, 06:03 PM
Truebulue,

Ammo is probably the cheapest component of your hunt. Store bought SP is between $11 and $30.00 for standard caliber stuff. Or somewhere between $0.53 and just over $1.00 per shot.

Nobody can be that cheap when you really break it down.;)

koja48
April 1, 2007, 08:41 PM
Frugal is okay, dangerous is just plain stupid. I'd hate to see you or anyone around you get hurt . . . or worse.

Oohrah
April 2, 2007, 03:59 PM
They most likely will not expand reliablely. Will garnentee the
Warden will grab you for it. Non expanding rounds (when they fail)
usually mean a long chase that you most likely will not win.:fire:

Art Eatman
April 2, 2007, 09:35 PM
It was not uncommon during the Great Depression for poor folks to "de-tip" FMJ ammo for their Enfields and Springfields. As sumpnz said, this led to the occasional blowout of the lead with the jacket left in the barrel.

That commonly led to a bulged barrel. The hunter assumed a miss, reloaded and shot again. Oops; big mistake!

Which costs more, a box of "real" hunting ammo, or a new barrel?

The phrase, "Penny wise, pound foolish," pre-dates the U.S. of A., but it's still true...

Art

Bwana John
April 3, 2007, 11:25 AM
Just grind off that tip, and while you are at it drill a hole in the projectile and fill it with Hg!:evil:
Game and Fish shouldnt mind once you splain that its a 'splodin boolit.:eek:

EricTheBarbarian
April 9, 2007, 10:59 AM
Im no expert at reloading but is it out of the question to pull the bullet on the fmj round and put a softpoint bullet in the same case? if you could do this it would probably be the cheapest if you had the reloading equip.

Art Eatman
April 9, 2007, 01:02 PM
Yeah, Eric, that'll work. The fit of the new bullet won't be real tight, though, and recoil might cause set-back of the rest of the bullets in the magazine. Wouldn't be a problem with single-loading; might not be a problem for cartridge #2 and maybe #3.

Art

H&Hhunter
April 9, 2007, 01:50 PM
Get yourself an $8.00 factory crimp die from Lee. That'll solve your set back problem mucho rapido.

sansone
April 9, 2007, 01:59 PM
we should all own dies for every gun we own. heck a cheap lee press can be bought for under $20.. that's the price of one box of rifle bullets. from there you can buy the other neat stuff that makes reloading such a fun hobby. just remember: there is little difference between hobbies and obsession:D

Geno
April 9, 2007, 02:14 PM
I have often wondered the same about creating HPs, such as Wolf. I also wondered about the comment of the projectile getting caught in the barrel of altered. To me, Wolf ammo looks to simply have the FMJs tip milled off to create a hollow point. So, I took a Wolf 7.62X39 HP, and pulled projectile. It is merely a FMJ that has had the tip milled off. That is to say, the bottom of the projectile is open, and the lead fully observable, as with a FMJ. Too, the point is hollow, and simply machined flat.

For my part, not, I do not believe a game warden would believe such a round to be a "hunting" HP round. As I look at hunting rounds, HPs and spire points, I am able to see the tiny lines where they have been machined down into the spire. Don't be cheap. Get yourself a $15.00 Lee Loader, and a box of projectiles, 1 pound of powder and a box of 100 primers. Take your old fired brass and simply reload. Literally 150 rounds of reloads will pay for the reload equipment.

EricTheBarbarian
April 9, 2007, 05:30 PM
if youre hunting steel plates itll work just fine.ive seen hungarian 180 gr 762x54r steel core mushroom at 300 yrds. i set 2, 1/4in steel plates up with about a foot gap in between. the bullet penetrated the first plate and didnt penetrate the second. i actually found a couple of the bullets and they mushroomed pretty good and didnt appear to really fragment at all. 2 of the copper jackets were stuck in the first plate and were completely pulled off the steel bullet. an interesting myth busters. judging by the clean hole they put through 1/4 in steel at 150 yrds though i dont think theyll mushroom at all on soft tissue like in a deer or hog but for some reason its hard for me to believe a 30 caliber hole through an animals vitals isnt going to take it down.

Art Eatman
April 10, 2007, 11:04 AM
Eric, to oversimplify the deal, just think of the difference between pushing a pencil through, vs. a mini-grenade going off inside. It's a tissue-damage thing, and bleed-out.

Yeah, the FMJ will kill, but if the deer is a mile or two away when it dies, and you don't find it, what good is that?

Art

Gun Wielding Maniac
April 23, 2007, 06:10 PM
A mini-grenade? Are you maybe exagerating just a bit, Art?

I'm not going to fight this battle again... but be it SP, HP, or FMJ, if you shoot the deer in the heart, lungs, liver, CNS, or melon and he won't go too far, $2 a pop ammo or not.

ConfuseUs
April 24, 2007, 03:50 AM
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot32.htm

should have some interesting stuff on the topic for you to look at.

redneck2
April 24, 2007, 07:10 AM
A mini-grenade? Are you maybe exagerating just a bit, Art?

I'm not Art, but no, I'd say it's pretty dead on. Depending on the bullet construction, they can blow up pretty well. Hit the bottom edge of a prairie dog with a 22-250 and you'll have pieces 5-10 feet in the air.

I suspect a lot of the damage caused by bullet expansion is due to energy transfer. And no, an animal hit COM by a solid typically will not expire as quickly as when hit by a SP. Only exception I can see would be a head shot, and the brain area of any animal is just too small and moves too much to be a dependable target IMO.

I know a guy that thought solids would be great for coyotes. Minimal fur damage. Shot one thru the lungs. IIRC, they tracked it about a mile in the snow. If hit with a HP, it would have been DRT.

Gun Wielding Maniac
April 24, 2007, 09:40 AM
Deer are not prairie dogs. You're talking about an animal whose overall body weight is about 1/200 of a deer.

Modern soft-points are designed specifically NOT to "blow up". This is also called jacket seperation and is usually defined as a bad thing.

Now, maybe your results have varied from mine, but I haven't seen an animal die any faster from a bullet through the heart that was .30 caliber going in and .45 caliber going out then one that stayed the same shape right through. As a matter of fact, if you shoot through the shoulder or bones, secondary missiles from bone fragments can cause a lot more damage then any expanding bullet could ever hope to. Also, FMJ bullets tend to yaw, tip and produce wound channels along the length of the bullet as well as the diameter.

Lung shots, well, first of all a bag of air doesn't provide much in the way of resistance to expand against. I don't think shooting an animal through the lungs with an FMJ or an HP would produce much in the way of differant results. In either case, it is going to die.

Art Eatman
April 24, 2007, 10:11 AM
Well, now, from experience, I can tell you that a Sierra 85-grain HPBT from my .243 will create a double-handful of mush from what used to be the heart/lungs of a deer. Seems to me that's a fair example of "Mini grenade".

Same for shooting a coyote and leaving a clenched-fist-size amount of goop on the ground.

And I have big hands. :D

Art

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