[mugsie]

I just loaded my first batch of 223. Went fairly well. Took them to the range to try different powder charges and found out of 24 rounds, two failed to chamber. after finding out the gun likes 25.5g of BL-C(2) under 55g Hornady SP, I went home and tried to chamber some of the already resized cases. Most were good but occasionally 1 or 2 failed to chamber. By chamber, I took a case less the bullet, loaded it in the rifle and closed, or tried to close the bolt. On a few, I was unable to close the bolt. It closed, but I couldn't depress it enough to go into battery and be ready to fire. For all intents and purposes the cases look the same. In fact, I have two, just FL resized, same manufacturer but one allows the bolt to close and the other doesn''t. Most are all range scrounged basss so I have no idea what it was fired in previously. I'm shooting this in a Savage bolt action BTW.

I will be buying a case gauge this week, but will this only tell me if the case will chamber correctly? In other words, I tried cranking the die up, down, left, right, every which way but loose and one chambers and the other doesn't.

I need suggestions guys. Since this is the first time I'm doing bottle nexk cases it's probably something basic that I missed. Clue me in please.

Thanks....

[P0832177]

One thing that comes to mind is that if you bought a bunch of once fired milatary ammo it could have been fired in a sloppy chambered M249 or the like. Thus you might want to consider using a Small Base FL die, just to resize the brass for the first sizing.

[R.W.Dale]

Did you FULLY resize the cases?? By that I mean did you bottom the shellholder out onto the die and then run the die into the press another 1/2 turn or so so your press is "camming over" onto the bottom of the die. This is rather common I've done it, You think you have full length sized cases when you actually have only partial length resized. Even high quality presses can have a good deal of upward stretch hence the need to break the ram over the top of it's stroke and ZERO everything against the shellholder.

[schmidtbender]

I know we all like to save a buck but 223 brass is not expensive.
Savages are known for tight precise chambers and good barrels, that's why they shoot well. Call up Midway and buy 100 new cases and your troubles will be over. While your at it buy a Lee collet die set and you should have a 1/2 MOA setup.

[Car Knocker]

Marking the case with a Magic Marker and trying to chamber it (or insert it in a case gauge) will show you exactly where your problem is. Points of contact will remove the dried ink.

[SlamFire1]

Mugsie: The first thing to do is buy that case gage and measure what the heck is going on. If you cannot measure what you are doing, you cannot control what you are doing, and you actually have no idea of what you are doing.

I wrote a long post on this thread about this.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=266231 .

If I had to guess, your sizing die is not sizing these cases sufficiently. Once you get those gages, you will be able to set up your sizing die. Size to gage minimum. And if you are still having chambering problems, buy a small base die.

[jr81452]

try posting your loading methods also. no way to tell from your post if its even a sizing issue. for instance did you trim them to the proper length?

[Geno]

You need to measure the outside dimensions of your cases. Either they are off, or your chambering/headspace is off. I suspect the first to be the culprit.

[schmidtbender]

I guess I don't understand why so many are suggesting that he buy new dies, gauges, trim, blacken, headspace etc just so he can recycle a bunch of crappy brass?
Why not just start with either new factory ammo (like WRA white box) or new brass and avoid the expense and questionable quality of this scrounged brass.
It's not like this is a 416 Rigby. 500 223 WRA cases are 80 bucks from Midway. By the time he buys a good case gauge and a small base die he will spend that much and gain nothing. I shoot a M-1, BAR (Browning), R1 and 7600. Never needed a small base die and those are semis not a bolt gun. While the pursuit of fixing it may be fun, why not just start out with A1 components and avoid all the messing about? I think his objective is to get an accurate, functioning rifle , lets help him get there with the least work.:confused:

[Doug b]

FWIW I tried small base dies in .223 & .308 but couldn't get the base in either die with max effort, and that old spar t press had a 6" cheater bar welded on the handle.

[fineredmist]

Are you having fun yet? It sounds like you are trying to save a few pennies and spend a lot of time for no good reason. Buy new brass and enjoy shooting and not driveing yourself mad.

[USSR]

The top two reasons for a resized cartridge case not fitting a chamber are: 1. Shoulder not pushed back far enough 2. Web expanded way out (machinegun fired) and needs to be resized using a small base die.

Don

[SlamFire1]

Doug: I have one of those Antique Spar T Turret Presses. It was cheap and I was curious. I have since unbolted the thing and stuck it in a box. One attempt to small base size a 308 case convinced me that reloading presses have vastly improved in the last fifty years.

The Spar T does not have compound leverage. Since there were lots of presses that had that feature fifty years ago, I am totally puzzled why any of those period presses were made without compound leverage. It is easy to small base size on my Redding T-7 or my Lyman T-Mag. It was totally impossible to do on a Spar T.

Get a new press. Even a cheap pot metal Lee press has infinitely more leverage than a Spar T.

[mugsie]

Thanks for all the help so far. Yes, I know 223 is cheap and I can buy oodles of brass cheap, but it's gone beyond that now. It's sorta like looking for the Holy Grail! Now I must discover the reason!

[schmidtbender]

You must have a lot of spare time. So buy a compound RCBS press, small base dies, special case measuring dies and ressurect your junk brass. After you work the swollen head down so it fits you can look forward to case separation which is an exciting event. Then you can spend MORE money on a broken shell extractor and maybe a trip to the Dr, to have the bits of brass and powder picked out of your face (hopefully you're wearing shooting glasses or more $ will be required for the dog and cane.) the Holy grail is a good analogy... a huge waste of time, lives and $ with no results.
What has become of common sense?:banghead:

[Car Knocker]

It would appear that you think your way is the only way. It's not.

[SlamFire1]

I have purchased thousands of once fired LC .223 brass. It came off of military ranges, shot in either M16's or SAWs. Once I set up my small base sizing die, using a Wilson case gage, the stuff functions fine.

I also do the same with once fired brass from the range. You can tell once fired from ragged out brass. I also have no problems with that stuff either. I shoot this stuff during the standing stage at 200 yards, and if it gets lost in the grass, well who cares? It was free to begin with.

I prefer buying unprocessed brass. That way I can see what I am getting. I don't trust processed brass.

[mpthole]

Sheesh you guys, give him a break.

[Shoney]

mugsie:
I agree with jr81452 on the trim length.

I may have missed it, but I didn't see you mention that you trimmed them to length or even check the case length. If the neck is too long on brass it will cause your problem.

[mugsie]

Aw guys - come on - of course I trimmed it to length. All is within the recommended limits. The conundrum (I like that word) is why do two cases, both the exact same manufacturer, both FL sized on the same die, differ. One fits - the other doesn't. Doesn't that get your curiosity up? It does mine. Sure, I could throw away the cases which fail to chamber, but what am I learning. Time? I have as much or as little as any of you. I enjoy reloading and I enjoy shooting. I don't mind spending time in front of my bench smushing brass. It's a hobby. Can you understand that Schmidtbender? A H-O-B-B-Y! One I enjoy. I enjoy all aspects of the H-O-B-B-Y. Shooting, reloading and soon casting my own bullets. Now why would I want to cast when bullets are sooo cheap you ask? Because it's a H-O-B-B-Y!:D

Seriously though - I would like to find the reason. It hasn't stpped me shooting because I am sorting and moving on, but like the knights of old, the destination meant nothing, it was the journey that was the adventure. Just think how dull life would be if they found the Holy Grail.

OK people - your turn. go ahead - I can take it!

When it's all said and done I'll just go down to the basement and work on my H-O-B-B-Y :D

[schmidtbender]

How many $s spent?
How many trips to the range?
Sorry but I like ammo that works the first time every time.
My HOBBY is shooting at targets and killing things, not making a silk purse from a sow's ear.
I'm sure you'll work it out given enough time & money just watch for those bright rings around the base on the 3-5th reload.
You'll notice the "handle" is schmidtbender not Tasco....same thought pattern...starting with the best makes the rest easier.:)

[taliv]

scmidtbendr, before you give yourself a stroke over somebody else's preferences, you might want to try another forum like arfcom or glocktalk where people might take someone's reloading advice just because they dropped two grand on a scope. :rolleyes:


mugsie, i thought i read your case gauge is in the mail now, but do you at least have a pair of calipers to to measure the cases?

have you tried the cases in different chambers/guns? what type of chamber are we talking about here? (i assume 223, as opposed to 5.56 or wylde)

[Hazzard]

Well, I'd suggest getting out the mics and calipers and checking the dimensions of a case that will chamber vs one that wont. This will tell you where the problem is. And I understand the frustration. Given the same situation, I would have to know why myself regardless of what brass costs.

[R.W.Dale]

You know in this entire thread I think I'm the ONLY person to even come close to helping the fellow out.


I'm telling you man, run that die down a tad more and ALL of your brass will chamber, Trust me I've found this out the hard way.

[R.W.Dale]

How many $s spent?
How many trips to the range?
Sorry but I like ammo that works the first time every time.
My HOBBY is shooting at targets and killing things, not making a silk purse from a sow's ear.
I'm sure you'll work it out given enough time & money just watch for those bright rings around the base on the 3-5th reload.
You'll notice the "handle" is schmidtbender not Tasco....same thought pattern...starting with the best makes the rest easie

Hint: nobody likes a showoff:neener:

[mugsie]

Got it!:D

You were right on the money Krochus - took a round that wouldn't chamber, ran the die down, placed it back in the gun and tried it. Still wouldn't chamber. Continued doing that (only 2 times schmidtbinder!) and wha-la! It chambers perfectly. The die is just kissing the shell plate but guess what - they all chamber now. There was only a few thousands difference in the sizing but hey - it works. Did you hear that Schmidtbumer? It works - No pain, no money spent, lots of fun and made some new friends in the process. It works!

Thanks everyone, including you Schmidtbinder. good luck to all of you and keep shooting.

[schmidtbender]

Glad to hear you got it fixed. Almost any book on reloading will tell you that to completely FL size cases, you have to set the shell holder to bump as the ram cycles over center. You may want to buy the Lyman or Lee reloading book and study it before continuing to reload. It was so basic, I guess we all missed it thinking that the problem had to be more subtle.

Buying the best you can afford is not being a "show off", rather it reflects a wise use of resources available. If all you can afford is used or old and you have the time and expertise to make it work that fine.

Calling someone names who choses another route and using insulting silly icons is rather childish.

So post your gold star for solving a problem that anyone completed reloading 101 could have solved had we known that the party with the problem had not.

[taliv]

Buying the best you can afford is not being a "show off"

yeah, but grasping for any possible segue from reloading to your scope purchase is. i don't blame you for reminding us since some of us might have missed the fact that you named yourself after it.

[SlamFire1]

If you had case gages you could have measured those cases and found that they were overlength.

What you still don't know, is whether they are undersized or still oversized. You may have just reduced the length of the case enough to get the bolt lugs to engage. Then, as that heavy fast moving bolt carrier comes crashing forward, the bolt may be crush resizing the rounds to fit.

Without the ability to measure the phenoma, you cannot control the process, and have no idea of what is going on.

[Car Knocker]

Calling someone names who choses another route and using insulting silly icons is rather childish.
This from someone who was deriding other people for their methods and choices, implying they had no common sense, and using the :banghead: smiley?

[schmidtbender]

there were two basic ways to fix the problem (on the assumption the rifle was okay)
1. Buy new components with virtually 100% confidence they would work.
2. Analyze the problem and, if possible, find a cure.

The cure turned out to be easy since the problem was due to operator inexperience. However the suggested analysis tools (new dies, press, case gauge etc.) would end up costing more than #1 above and still not assure success. hence the :banghead:

But I don't make my own fuel for my diesel either.:)

Finally FYI, it's not "my scope purchase" rather they are the scopes I use because I (and the Marines) think they are the best in the world. rather like a Winchester fan having a handle of "model70"

[Doug b]

That press (may have been called spartan) a 5 station turret was worn out and unbolted 20 yrs. ago.

[langenc]

I did not read all posts but I believe krocus is right-on several counts.

To the original poster-

I have had the same problem. Get a case gauge-Wilson or Blue press. Check cases-all.

Also get a small jar and put some small birdshot and graphite in it. Dip case mouths into it to lube mouths (in & out). Chances are your cases are streatching when the expander comes out of the neck and the shoulder is moving forward ever so little. That causes hard bolt closure. Also as krocus said make the press 'cam over a little' so the bottom 1/8" is sized. If you are shooting a bolt the FL will only be necessary 1x-can then neck size only. Brass will last longer and less trimming (length wont grow as much).