Hospitals and guns


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.cheese.
April 2, 2007, 12:29 AM
As I was in the hospital this last week and weekend (nothing to worry about, just pacreatitis), once a day I'd ask the nurses to heplock my IV so I could walk around a little bit, I noticed during my daily walks around the hospital and outside that the hospital was separated into two sections. The first was the main hospital, where I was. The second was a separate building, which was at one point connected to the main building via a bridge on the 3rd floor. It was the psychiatric ward (for I assume the mentally ill).

The entrance to the psychiatric building had heavy security at the entrance and at the door to the 3rd floor bridge. Everything from bag scanners, cameras, guards, metal detectors, etc. There was a sign on the entrance to the building that said, "NO FIREARMS/WEAPONS ALLOWED"

What I found interesting is that I walked around the rest of the main hospital and not a single door had that sign.

I thought you can't carry into any hospital because the ER might have psychiatric patients? Did this hospital enable carrying by keeping all psychiatric patients in a separate building?

Or did they just feel it more important to emphasize the weapon rule at that building, despite it applying everywhere on the premises?

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Valkman
April 2, 2007, 12:34 AM
I thought you can't carry into any hospital because the ER might have psychiatric patients?

That doesn't apply here in NV (that I know of), but anywhere that has metal detectors at each entrance is off limits. Also, "No Guns" signs mean nothing here as 30.06 signage is the only legal way to ban guns using signs.

average_shooter
April 2, 2007, 12:38 AM
My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that weapons are only really banned in the psych section. I believe that if the hospital does not have a psych ward or is seperated from the ward as it seems yours is that they don't have to ban weapons in the actual hospital portion.

deanf
April 2, 2007, 12:43 AM
Like laws gun related, it's different in every state.

thexrayboy
April 2, 2007, 12:47 AM
I have never heard of a hospital that did not have a written policy forbidding possession of firearms on the premises by anyone except LEO or uniformed security. Most do not actually post NO FIREARMS on the entrances but the policy is in place. However as in many states that policy is not a law. They can prevent employees from carrying via the threat of termination but the
populace in general would only be asked to leave if discovered. This is almost always a policy that is instituted to satisfy
liability concerns for the hospital. The theory being if they say no guns allowed and someone violates that rule it is harder
to hold them liable for injury to someone.

I would suspect that the lockdown ward has a specific policy prohibiting weapons by anyone including LEO. Just as in many jail wards and prisons weapons are limited to specific areas and barred from other areas even for sworn personel. They may feel that since unstable patients are allowed to roam about inside the secure area anyone entering while carrying could potentially be disarmed by an patient with all the problems that creates.
The solution is simply to prevent any guns in the restricted area with no exceptions. In many lockdown wards you have to go through a metal detector to enter to prevent people from smuggling items in.

bpsig
April 2, 2007, 12:56 AM
The local er/ hospital in my area expressly forbids weapons want's police to leave all guns at home. But on another hand an incident where a dui under arrest dropped her gun on xray table pd said give it back to her after you unload it.
Even security must be unarmed no mace/cuffs etc tell od's and psych patients in halls wandering around to stay in room do nothing AAH liberals :cuss:

Geronimo45
April 2, 2007, 12:58 AM
"Also, "No Guns" signs mean nothing here as 30.06 signage is the only legal way to ban guns using signs."
In Nevada? 30.06 is Texas.

DDrake
April 2, 2007, 01:07 AM
I use to vulonteer at a local hospital, and every month they would make print-outs of the new... up-to-date procedures. Usually minor things, like placing a symbol on doors where a mother's baby didn't survive for whatever reason... so volunteers didn't go in the room asking where is the cute baby.

Anyway, one of these handouts said if we see someone with a gun who looks suspicious and up to no good, to call security. It didn't say report people with guns, no matter what.


Also, the hospital had a psy-floor, and on that door it had about a million warnings. It said no firearms, but also included things like pens.

The ER door had nothing on it but "No Unauthorized Persons" ..... so who knows.

hotpig
April 2, 2007, 01:13 AM
I worked part time hospital security for several years in North St Louis County. It was our hospital policy that no fire arms were allowed except on duty LE and us.

The psych unit had the only posting but it really was more to remind LE that were bringing non voluntary patients to lock their guns up outside of the ward in the pistol lockers .

.cheese.
April 2, 2007, 01:20 AM
pistol lockers?

So does that mean that next time I go to the hospital. I could go to the psych unit, lock my gun up, and then go into the regular building to get admitted for whatever I'm sick with, or even just to have tests?

hotpig
April 2, 2007, 01:25 AM
I would not advise you to go near the psych unit with a gun.

XavierBreath
April 2, 2007, 01:34 AM
thexrayboy got it right.

I did hear of an incident concerning a pistol on a MRI room. It was a ND. I want to say it was in Texas in the past year. We got a flyer about it. Anyone else hear about that?

Here (http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/178/5/1092) is a report on another one.
An off-duty police officer went to an outpatient imaging center (not affiliated with our institution) in western New York State to have an MR imaging examination. The facility housed a 1.5-T MR unit (Signa; General Electric Medical Systems, Milwaukee, WI) with active shielding. The officer was carrying a model 1991 A-1 compact.45 caliber semiautomatic pistol (Colt's Manufacturing, Hartford, CT).

The officer notified the technologist that he was carrying the weapon before entering the MR dressing room. The technologist told the officer to take the gun with him. The technologist intended to meet the officer in the MR patient waiting area before the examination and secure the weapon in that room, where he felt it would be safe. However, the officer apparently misunderstood and took the gun into the MR suite. The technologist was entering the officer's personal data into the computer and did not see him entering the MR suite.

Once the officer was inside the MR suite, the gun was pulled from his hand as he attempted to place the gun on top of a cabinet 3 ft (0.9 m) away from the magnet bore. The gun was immediately pulled into the bore, where it struck the left side and spontaneously discharged a round into the wall of the room at the rear of the magnet. Fortunately, no one was injured. Although the gun struck the magnet bore, only minimal cosmetic damage occurred to the magnet itself. The MR unit had full functional capability immediately after the gun discharged. The weapon's thumb safety was reportedly engaged when the gun discharged.

An unsuccessful attempt to remove the gun from the magnet resulted in the gun being pulled to the right side of the magnet (Fig. 1). The decision was then made to power down the magnet to remove the gun.

Examination of the weapon by a ballistics laboratory concluded that the force of the magnetic field was responsible for the firearm's discharge. To understand how the gun discharged requires a brief discussion of the firing mechanics of the Colt 1991 A-1.45 caliber pistol and the weapon's safety mechanisms [2]. When the weapon is normally fired, the trigger is pulled, which releases the sear. The sear, in turn, releases the hammer. The hammer then moves forward to strike the firing pin, which moves forward to strike the primer of the chambered round.

The Colt 1991 A-1 pistol has three safety mechanisms (Fig. 2A,2B,2C,2D), including a thumb safety, grip safety, and firing pin block. The thumb safety locks the sear in place and prevents the hammer from moving forward when the trigger is pulled. The thumb safety also locks the slide in place. The thumb safety is the weapon's only active safety mechanism; it must be turned on in order to work. The grip safety is located at the back of the gun handle and prevents the trigger from being depressed. The grip safety is a passive mechanism; it is always on unless deactivated. To deactivate it, the grip safety must be depressed at the same time the trigger is depressed; otherwise, the trigger cannot be pulled. The firing pin block is a small metal block, approximately the size of a pencil eraser, that sits in the firing pin channel and prevents the firing pin from moving forward. The firing pin block is held in place by a small spring. When the trigger is pulled, a series of levers cam the firing pin block up into its own well within the slide to allow the firing pin to move freely within its channel.

At the time the weapon discharged, it was reportedly in a cocked and locked position; that is, the hammer was cocked and the thumb safety was engaged to prevent the hammer from striking the firing pin. A live round was in the chamber. (Many people who choose this weapon for personal protection will carry it in this manner because it allows them to quickly fire the weapon if needed.)

When the firearm was removed from the magnet, the gun was still in a cocked and locked position. An empty cartridge was found in the chamber. The presence of an empty cartridge in the chamber is highly unusual. If the thumb safety were not engaged and the weapon fired normally by depressing the trigger, the normal backward recoil of the slide should have automatically ejected the empty cartridge, and a new live round should have automatically been chambered. As discussed earlier, the thumb safety performs two functions: it prevents the sear from releasing the hammer, thereby preventing the hammer from striking the firing pin; it also locks the slide in place, preventing retrograde motion of the slide and automatic ejection of the empty cartridge. Thus, the presence of an empty cartridge in the chamber confirms that the thumb safety was engaged at the time the gun was fired. Given that the thumb safety was engaged when the gun discharged, it is also likely that the normal trigger and hammer mechanism of firing the gun was bypassed because the thumb safety would have also prevented release of the hammer.

The gun likely discharged as a result of the effect of the magnetic field on the firing pin block. The firing pin block was probably drawn into its uppermost position by force of the magnetic field. The firing pin block has to overcome only light pressure from a relatively small spring to release the firing pin. The pistol was likely drawn into the magnetic field so that the muzzle struck the magnet's bore first. With the firing pin allowed to move freely in its channel, the force of the impact on the muzzle end was sufficient to cause the firing pin to overcome its spring pressure and move forward to strike the primer of the chambered round.

This account explains how the weapon discharged when the thumb safety was engaged.

The presence of an empty cartridge in the chamber explains why the gun did not discharge a second time when it was moved from the left to the right side of the bore. Even if the identical forces were repeated, an empty cartridge, not a live round, was in the chamber at this time.

In this incident, the gun discharged despite the thumb safety being engaged. This has important implications in that it shows that the weapon poses a risk for discharging in an MR imaging environment even with the thumb safety engaged.

One can look at the sequence of events preceding the discharge of the weapon and see several points at which the incident could have been prevented. When the officer came in with the gun, it should have been immediately secured in a safe location, even before the officer changed for the examination. The technologist, knowing the officer had a firearm, should have instructed him that under no circumstances could he bring the weapon into the MR suite. Also, the technologist should have been monitoring the officer more closely to make sure he did not enter the MR suite with the weapon. Signs should have been posted at that site, if they were not already there, warning the public of the dangers of approaching the magnetic field of the MR imager with implants, metallic devices, or objects such as firearms.

In light of this incident, all radiologists should reexamine our own site's screening methods to ensure that steps are implemented to prevent such a situation from ever recurring.

Then there was this (http://www.afte.org/announcements/offsafetymri.htm):
In July 2001, an officer from the Manheim Township (Lancaster County, Pennsylvania) Police Department had an incident where his issue firearm malfunctioned. The Smith & Wesson, Model 4013, .40 S&W caliber, semi-automatic pistol was found to have a magnetized firing pin, which stuck to the side of the channel within the slide. Upon inspection, it was determined that the entire pistol had become so magnetized that paper clips actually stuck to any metal surface. The department armorer was able to demagnetize the firearm with the use of a high-power, videotape-erasing unit after complete disassembly.

When the malfunction was discovered, the officer had no idea of when or how his pistol had become magnetized. A review of the officer’s activities, revealed that he had investigated a burglar alarm call at a medical office that was equipped with a Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) unit. During the investigation, the officer had walked into the MRI suite that magnetized the pistol. MRI medical personnel have detailed instructions on safety, which include keeping metal objects away from the unit. Upon further inspection, two additional officer’s firearms were also found to have been magnetized.


Crazy stuff.

Geronimo45
April 2, 2007, 01:46 AM
"Crazy stuff."
Moral of the story: If you carry a gun into an MRI, carry a Glock 7. :evil:

thexrayboy
April 2, 2007, 01:50 AM
I saw that article about the ND of an officers gun in an MR suite. By all accounts the officer entered the exam room prior to being told it was safe by the tech. The result no injuries and essentially no damage, could have been worse. The field of a high strength MR magnet is no joke. It can pull a hammer and accelerate it to a speed fast enough to go through quarter inch plywood held in front of the bore.

tegemu
April 2, 2007, 08:52 AM
Florida law prohibits carrying a firearm in a hospital. I also think this includes the parking lot.

Hkmp5sd
April 2, 2007, 09:12 AM
Florida law prohibits carrying a firearm in a hospital. I also think this includes the parking lot.


Nope. Florida does not prohibit carrying in a hospital.

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.--


(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.



http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC06.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0790->Section%2006#0790.06

NukemJim
April 2, 2007, 09:18 AM
I would suspect that the lockdown ward has a specific policy prohibiting weapons by anyone including LEO

Having worked in a psych ward I would strongly suspect that the above is correct.

We were told if LEO came in with firearm to ask them to leave immedialty and come back without the firearm. Never occurred so do not ask how well it would work.

Side note, while I was working a patient up for a psych admit when I was working in the ER was the first time a patient ever whipped out a gun on me :eek: Gave it up when she was asked to, no problem. Most recent pt who whipped out a gun on me was a 74 year old female :what: I've never had a problem with a pt with a gun. Leave it in the holster if they have one and cover it with a towell where both the pt and I can see it. No problem.

NukemJim

markk
April 2, 2007, 03:34 PM
RE: FLORIDA hospital carry
IANAL
but he is http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/faq008.shtml

CAN YOU CARRY AT A HOSPITAL?
© 2006 by Jon H. Gutmacher

Florida Statute § 394.458 states “except as authorized by law” it is a third degree felony (yeah – felony!) for any person to bring, carry, possess, or transport a “firearm or other dangerous weapon” upon the grounds of any “hospital (or mental health facility) providing mental health services”. Here’s the actual wording:





(1) (a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:


Any intoxicating beverage or beverage . . . .
Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or
Any firearms or deadly weapon”.



I just handled an arrest involving this statute. I raised the defense that the phrase “except as authorized by law” meant just that – and that securely encased weapons in vehicles on hospital grounds were therefore legal, pursuant to Florida Statute 790.25, and that persons having a Concealed Weapons Permit were also authorized because Florida Statute 790.06(12) lists all the places you can’t carry pursuant to your permit – and a hospital or mental health facility isn’t one of them. Thus you’re obviously “authorized by law”.




Now, the State Attorney agreed with me in the case I was handling – and dropped the prosecution. However, there is no binding appellate decision on this issue, and therefore, no guarantee you couldn’t get arrested, and become the next “test case”. Just because I’m sure my interpretation is correct doesn’t mean that the rest of the world will. Likewise, the “law according to Gutmacher” isn’t quite the same thing as an Opinion by an appellate court which is binding across the State. So -- maybe some caution isn’t such a bad idea?



I therefore would suggest that carrying inside a hospital or mental health facility pursuant to your CWP should be reserved for very special instances. Likewise, if any one knows you’re carrying, and tells the police or a security guard - I would suggest you be more than accommodating in offering to leave immediately if they feel you’re illegal, or just don’t want you there. Remember -- even if my interpretation is correct -- they still have the right to tell you to leave under trespass laws, no matter what the actual law is. So just get the heck out while you have the chance. If you get into any type of situation where you’re actually taken into custody, politely suggest to the officers that because you have a CWP, you’re not acting illegally. They’ll probably ignore you – but who knows? Can’t hurt!



Anyway, that’s my spin on this statute. Keep safe.

.cheese.
April 2, 2007, 04:08 PM
that's pretty much what I remembered.

I also remember that the problem arises that many/all ER's have the potential to be treating mentally ill patients, so it's been said that it could apply to any hospital. However, I found the separation of the two buildings interesting and wondered how it would effect things.

btw - I am in Florida.

PPGMD
April 2, 2007, 04:28 PM
Markk,

Sounds exactly like the Post Office carry, it's illegal to unlawfully carry a firearm into a Post Office, but a person that has a CHL is allowed to carry it unless state law specifically prohibits it, since it's perfectly lawful to have a CCW on you.

MD_Willington
April 2, 2007, 04:39 PM
Guess they do surgery with a dull spoon or a tongue depressor... no blades, 'cause those are "weapons"...

.cheese.
April 2, 2007, 05:11 PM
PPGMD - as far as I know, a post office is considered a federal building and is NOT ok to carry CHL or not.

PPGMD
April 2, 2007, 05:20 PM
as far as I know, a post office is considered a federal building and is NOT ok to carry CHL or not.

Not under Florida law.

License to Carry Concealed Weapon or Firearm


Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05
any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
any detention facility, prison, or jail;
any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;
any polling place;
any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;
any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;
any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
any school administration building;
any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
any elementary or secondary school facility;
any area vocational-technical center;
any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;
inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or
any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law


The Federal law
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

Subsection A prohibits the carry, but under Subsection D there is a exception under number 3 that says "or lawful purposes" concealed carry is considered a lawful purpose if you have a CHL.

.cheese.
April 2, 2007, 05:22 PM
I'll have to check, but I think I remember seeing in the local post office a sign that says "No firearms" and then has the listing of a statute.

If somebody in Florida happens to be in a post office before I am, take note and see if that sign has a statute listed or not. Could be my imagination.

sm
April 2, 2007, 05:25 PM
thexrayboy
and
XavierBreath

Are correct.

Now where I used to work not many of the Security were armed, just the nature of this hospitals "attitude" in regard to firearms and other things.

Armed Security was stepped up with some "incidents" where I worked.
I had , along with other OR folks and those in ER had begged and pleaded.
We did get armed security in the ED and OR, and these were often times not in uniform, instead in surgical scrubs.

It may surprise some, just how many "weapons" exist in a OR/ ED/ other areas of a hospital.
Many of us "trained" to "run what you brung". Use what is there...

Other hospitals in town, one especially , has really great Security, and strives to improve on what they have. I mean they really stay on the ball.

Uniformed, ladies and gents, off duty police and plain-clothes. The may be wearing Surgical Scrubs, Rad-Tech, Nurse, Maintenance, Laundry, Even Cleaning Crews.
Even regular folks visiting folks.
These are a combination of hospital security, which are armed, and off duty officers.
This hospital is good!

Instrument Room, Instruments used for certain surgeries, will ...well, one would not want to have these used against their person "incorrectly".
;)

PPGMD
April 2, 2007, 05:27 PM
If somebody in Florida happens to be in a post office before I am, take note and see if that sign has a statute listed or not. Could be my imagination.

If you want to read the entire statute you can do it here:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000930----000-.html

Most of those posters only lists subsection a and sometimes b, they skip the important exceptions in subsection d.

markk
April 2, 2007, 05:33 PM
also
in FLORIDA
signs carry no force of law

computerguysd
April 2, 2007, 05:41 PM
For what it's worth, I've been in quite a few Veterans Hospitals & since they're Federal Property, state laws don't apply. Firearms are prohibited in all of them that I know of. Some wouldn't even allow their own police officers to carry until after 9/11.

shc1
April 2, 2007, 06:16 PM
a post office is considered a federal building and is NOT ok to carry CHL or not.

Don’t tell the senator from VA.

RustyShackelford
April 2, 2007, 08:02 PM
I worked as an 085/Security Guard on a temporary position in the VAMCs/Pittsburgh PA in the late 1990s. Our VA policy was that no VA employees, veterans, vendors, and/or medical center visitors could carry weapons/ammunition at any time.

When I started working there, veterans and/or visitors could keep their firearms in a storage locker in the VA police office but that SOP was changed after about 10mo.

Even on duty/sworn LEOs had to report to the VA police office and secure their duty weapons(few did follow VA rules however, :rolleyes: ).

I for 1 can see the need for security on federal property but I also think that US military veterans with valid CCW licenses/permits can be trusted to have the weapons with them and be able to secure them in a authorized place. The problem is that in many VAMC offices, the security/police leave and patrol the area. They work alone or in small groups that can cause problems for the weapons security/storage.

Rusty S

XavierBreath
April 2, 2007, 09:20 PM
This article (http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html) on post offices and CCW is illuminating.

Hkmp5sd
April 2, 2007, 09:29 PM
that persons having a Concealed Weapons Permit were also authorized because Florida Statute 790.06(12) lists all the places you can’t carry pursuant to your permit – and a hospital or mental health facility isn’t one of them. Thus you’re obviously “authorized by law”.


So it IS legal to carry in a hospital and this lawyer can quote ONE case of someone being incorrectly arrested and ACQUITTED. I've been carrying in hospitals for 20 years without problem, including being kept overnight myself and the nurses knowing about the gun.


After re-reading the article, I notice in the last paragraph the author essentially says to go ahead and carry in a hospital. In typical lawyer fashion, at one point he says don't carry in a hospital if you don't want to end up as a "test case" and later he says that technically you're legal, so go ahead and do it. Of course, he ends with "This column is not rendered as legal advice."

What a waste of ink.

LanEvo`
April 2, 2007, 09:45 PM
Keep in mind that many hospitals are affiliated with medical schools/universities. These so-called "teaching hospitals" are technically educational institutions. So, if your state has a prohibition against carrying on school grounds, you shouldn't be carrying in a teaching hospital.

tegemu
April 3, 2007, 12:38 PM
I stand corrected re. Fla. law and hospitals. Thank you.

Sniper X
April 3, 2007, 12:46 PM
New Mexico must forbid it as every time I have been in a hosp I see a no weapons firearms sign posted on the door.

Green Lantern
April 3, 2007, 12:55 PM
Hmmm...

The "craptacular" local hospital is posted on the visitor's entrance, NOT the er....????

The better hospital over in TN is just posted on the ER.

RNB65
April 3, 2007, 12:59 PM
This article on post offices and CCW is illuminating.

So is this one. It reaches the exact opposite conclusion of the Gun Zone article.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/content-96.html

As for hospitals, it's state by state, case by case. I work in a hospital and we forbid gun carry by anyone except LEO's. If you're found with a lawfully carried gun (ccw) you'll be asked to leave immediately. If you fail to do so, you'll be arrested and charged with trespassing.

Sec421
April 3, 2007, 08:41 PM
Texas. we too have the hospital's standard 30.06 listing, But your firearm/s can be turned into Security for storage for the length of your visit. The E.R. of this particular hospital does not allow firearms on premise from Patients, Patient visitors, Security, and frowns upon LEOs entering with firearms. <which of course is commonly breached. I have been known to carry through the E.R., and definatly allow LEOs theirs. Seriously... Could you see an armed Security Officer approaching a REAL Officer and demanding their weapon> :scrutiny:
At no time can a non-security personel employee be armed with a firearm on premise. Of course the hospital policy will change from state to state and even from hospital to hospital. Aye there can be no firearms near Psyche-patients it doesn't take a genious to figure that one out :p
But you know the rules no federal buildings, alcohol vendors, and so on. I don't think i have ever seen anything posted on the E.R. doors of any hospital. Maybe because i was more interested in getting inside for medical care rather than reading the front door. LoL

chemist308
April 3, 2007, 10:31 PM
I thought you can't carry into any hospital because the ER might have psychiatric patients?
Many hospital prevent it for different reasons. Hospitals see gunshot victims. When I lived in Pittsburgh, UPMC tried to prevent firearms because of fear that someone might want to "finish" a job. It was actually a reasonable fear. Sometimes reception would get calls from concerned 'friends' wanting to know if a particular individual had survived a gsw.

.cheese.
April 4, 2007, 12:57 AM
that's certainly a different approach I hadn't considered before.

gezzer
April 4, 2007, 01:37 AM
In Free State like NH you can carry in hospitals even if posted as posted doesn't mean crap!!

All the new carry states have tons of no go places that carrying is such a pest to comply just as the scardy cat politicos and cops want.

thexrayboy
April 4, 2007, 01:39 AM
Bangers wanting to visit the local hospital to finish a job they started on the outside was always a major concern at the facility I trained at in E. LA.

It was fairly common for them to try and sneak into the ER for a little round 2.
We had bulletresistant lexan at the reception desk in the ER waiting room and after dark you could not get into the building without ID.

EricTheBarbarian
April 4, 2007, 01:43 AM
i was an intern with the unversity police for a few months and you dont want to go into the mri room with anything metal. the entire gun belt has to be taken off or they could get stuck to the wall. not to mention a gun discharging like the previous person posted. generally, theyre banned in the hospital for the same reason in ohio theyre banned in banks, schools, and just about any place someone feels like it. its purpose is so carrying is a hassle so less people will do it.

hounddog
April 4, 2007, 04:05 AM
In WV, you can concealed carry except for the usual, schools, police buildings, churches, federal facilities, etc. No rules on hospitals. However, if there is a sign stating no weapons, you are not allowed to carry. Most hospitals post this. So far as Psych wards, you really want no weapons in there.

Now, from a doc's point of view....I allow NO ONE to carry while I am working on them. I don't care who you are or what rights you have. This policy comes from a LEO trying to draw down on me. He cut his finger one morning while getting ready to go to court. Needed a couple of quick stiches. Numbed him up, began to sew and he passed out on me. When he came to he felt me pulling on him trying to get him laid in the bed and he went for his gun. Never again.

ER's can be rather emotionally charged areas. Lot of emotions going on. I can't even begin to count the number of times I have been punched, cursed at or spit upon. Guns just add to much of a danger at this point. And I am a gun nut, NRA life member.

.cheese.
April 4, 2007, 12:58 PM
hounddog - that's not funny about him trying to draw on you, but it is kinda funny about him passing out.

I just had the same happen a few days ago, funny thing about it is that it was the same night I was discharged from the hospital for pancreatitis. I cut my middle finger pretty much down to the bone (dumb story as to how) and needed to go to the ER for stiches. It was bleeding like crazy, but really the whole thing wasn't that big of a deal. It was just very messy is all.

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