girls new to the range

[inthemoss]

I've got a few lady friends that are intersted in going and shooting clays. they arent the paris type nor a tomboy. so i was wondering how i can make their first trip out a fun one. like an easy way to get rules across without seeming like a hard ass and such. i'd appreciate anything.

[bensdad]

Have the rangemaster work with you/them.

Before you go, explain and emphasize the four rules.

Use real target loads... not promo stuff (anything less than $4/box).

Put any ideas about "scoring" out of your head. It'll contaminate the shooting experience for at least one of them.

[sm]

inthemoss,

Are you a lady? :)
Just asking as I cannot tell if you are male or female by your user name.

I am a male, so here is what I have done to introduce and assist ladies in shooting skeet.

I prefer to have another lady/ladies assist.

Before we go to range, we talk about The Four Rules, and actually try on safety glasses, ear protection and all.
We talk about clothing, such as no sandals, no open toes. Instead shoes with a bit of forward lift, like tennis shoes are better.
Comfortable clothes, and no open tops . Meaning no tank tops, low cut and button the top button on a blouse.

Club, range rules, etiquette and all sorts of things about where we will be going, if club requires signing in, and insurance regulations, we discuss this as well.

We want them to feel safe, have fun and not be surprised at to what to expect.

Guns.

Depends on experience of shooter. For total new shooters, we have shotguns and with them apart, we show them what is what. What parts of a shotgun ar called, how to work them, and safely and everything.
Take away any mysteries, answer and all questions about guns...plus...
Eye dominance ...then...

Gun fit.
I am big into gun fit.
Ladies are built different and do have areas that need addressing.
This is another area where ladies can better address ladies in questions and answers.
If a male is going to assist, the ladies must know / must sense/ must be comfortable with the male assisting them.
They have to know whomever is assisting, is keeping their safety in mind.

I prefer a 28 gauge semi auto for new shooters. O/U is next preferred.

I will demonstrate everything about a gun and how to hold it safely while on the field, how to mount it correctly, and foot position stance and all that too.

Now I have earned the trust of ladies, so often times when I am introduced to a lady, I am some steps ahead of some folks.

I asked permission to put hands in them, to assist them with the gun , stance, feet...

Again ladies, will also ask permission to put hands on if need to assist.

Respect the other person always, especially different genders assisting one another.

If a lady is assisting me, I will leave at times. I respect privacy, and if some things needs to be addressed, none of my business.
IF, If there is a medical concern or some physical limit for safety reasons or comfort of lady - I am made aware.
Respect is the key.


For instance I have had ladies with breast surgeries, from cancer, reduction, cosmetic, and even chest burns that - well these sensitive matters needed to be addressed.

Then again I have a lady we are assisting recovering from detached retina, shoulder and knee surgery.

So medical concerns such as surgeries, physical limits are made known for students safety.

Medicine and Allergies. Bee stings, and Benedryl or Epi kit? One lady was allergic to chocolate for a time due to another medical condition.

Still simple things like some anti-biotics and photo-sensitive, or certain foods make them queasy.

I/we would like to know, so not only is the student safe, they know we are concerned about them being safe in not only shooting - also as a whole person.

Fun.

We usually start with stationary targets. Clays, balloons with a 28 ga or really light loads.
Station 7 and low bird is always fun. Then station 1.
Whatever they want to do, and the idea is fun, building self esteem.
We do not let them tire, fatigue causes sloppy gun mounts, and getting whacked and getting hurt.
We are up front about them tiring.

The students shoot, is all about them, learning, having fun, asking questions.
We do not go out to shoot, only to show or demonstrate.

I have used thousands of primer only hulls to allow a student to get the feel of a gun going bang when the trigger is slapped.

Ladies make better students, they are willing, ask great questions, take notes, and do at home - homework.
I have learned a LOT from assisting students, and especially from ladies.

Fun, serious Fun.


Steve

[Mark8252]

I guess my shotgun must be special. I frequently hit 25 out of 25 using Walmart cheap loads. Standing next to guys with $10.000.00 shotguns too.
You cannot buy the ability. You either have it naturaly or painstakingly learn it from never ending practise.
Just take the girls and have a good time. I would not worry about anything period.

:) :) :) :)

[Black Majik]

Safety is paramount, but make the experience informal. Take the girls out to lunch, and discuss the rules of safe firearm handling and range rules while having lunch. This creates a casual atmosphere, and you'll be surprised how well they listen when it doesn't sound like a lecture.

Before the range, show them the firearms they'll be using and familiarize them with the gun they'll be using. Of course you'll want to explain to them how to make sucessful hits and tips and tricks you've learned to hit the clays.

Use a light recoiling shotgun. A hard recoiling firearm can discourage and leave a bad taste in their mouth of the experience. Their performance may be hindered from being tired or sore. A 20 ga 870 or 1100 would work great. I have a friend that's 5'5 and tiny, but she can handle my 12 ga 870 WM fine, but her bigger cousin whos 5'10 and 200+ lbs gets bruised easily from my 20 ga 686 B gun. No joke, so people are different, but first time have them shoot something with a light recoil. Only until they shoot will you be able to find out their tolerance to recoil.

Proper instruction or advice from seasoned shooters or instructors is a good idea too.

But most of all, enjoy and have fun. Make sure their safe, but don't overly critique them on form, and the technical jargon we're familiar with.

Good luck!

[inthemoss]

really good advice, thanks yall. i've got it all in my head but all the talk's made it easier to spit out. i do have an 1100 and my roomate has an 870.

i can tell theres going to be a bit of a problem with one of them. i had her over to see what she likes. she actually took to my mossberg 835. but when i gave her the 1100 and pushed the button (sorry, dont know the term) to move the bolt forward, she flinched a little. im hoping she can get used the the gun moving a bit and the noise.

another problem is other people at the range. out here in west texas i dont exactly have access to stellar ranges. the most i can manage is 55 gallon drums with launchers on them every 40 yards apart. i've had people fire on my birds after i missed. i told them to stop and said something about it to the owner, but im afraid on screw around can change their minds.

eye dominance...never thought of that one.

[jhunter]

My wife had never shot a gun and the first time I took her out the noise (XD .40) was the only thing getting to her. So I had here put the foam plugs in, and then her head muffs over that. It worked out good. I taught her the proper hold to reduce recoil, so she never really was afraid of that. So, I think the noise might be an issue for some.. Make sure they have some really good ear protection

[TX1911fan]

Yes, for the first time especially, double up on ear protection.

Also, if you are shooting skeet, watch for this problem. I was trying to teach the young wife of one of my friends, and she couldn't hit anything, so I asked her to close her left eye so she could see down the barrel better. She said she couldn't. She had never had the ability to close just one eye. So, I ripped off a piece of cardboard and stuck it down the front of the left eypiece on her safety glasses. She hit the next 5 in a row. Sometimes you have to communicate when there are problems.

[DogBonz]

That is how I start everyone, male or female, who is a first timer. If you want some one to have fun who has never shot before, I strongly advise a 22 like a Ruger 22/45 or their MK series. They have almost no recoil, and are easy to teach on.

Also, I strongly suggest that you have them just stand around with their eyes and ears on for a couple of minutes to get used to the booms.

Sorry, I didn't read so well. Clays... ohhh, I see....

[Stump Water]

I guess my shotgun must be special. I frequently hit 25 out of 25 using Walmart cheap loads. Standing next to guys with $10.000.00 shotguns too.

I don't think bensdad was referring to the price of the shells as much as he was suggesting true "low recoil, low noise" (Featherlite) shells and not just "cheap" shells which, more often than not, are anything but low recoil, low noise.

[sanson1]

oh come now men.... give the girls light loads so they don't run away screaming:eek:

[sm]

Just a reminder-

Ladies are human beings and have the same rights and deserve the same common courtesy of being Respected as do all human beings.

Respect is earned, so please keep this in mind when assisting others at the range, and in posting comments on public forum.

[hso]

C'mon, boys. Women are the hope of keeping the shooting sports alive. They are the largest group with the most growth in recent years of declining numbers of shooters and are the greatest growth potential for shooting sports. They are the ones that anti's target to create fear and mistrust of shooters so the more of them that are introduced to shooting properly the better for all us gunrights proponents. We start new shooters out on lower recoil weapons and ammunition with proper safety gear and clothing because we want them to enjoy the experience and come back again and again. They'll work their way up to the recoil they enjoy as well, but lets get them wanting to come back after the first range trip. Considering the very capable female members and female mods on THR, the need for more female shooters and the potential power they add to the gun rights community I'd hope the sexist comments and the punishing power suggestions would be better left to some other site.

[Brian Williams]

oh come now men.... give the girls light loads so they don't run away screaming

So you are one of those who put 3" turkey load in a shotgun or load up a Mosin Nagant or Mauser with full milsurp loads and hand it to a Newbie and then laugh and giggle when they just about rip off their shoulder Because you didn't bother to teach them proper stance or how to hold the gun tight to the shoulder to allow the body to roll with the recoil.


If you are, I hope that someone gives you a Barrett 50 that has the comp blocked and makes you shoot from the prone position over a red ant hill, so you feel the whole thing.

I am not a recoil junkie and if you would do that to a new shooter and I was present, I would really like to slap you, but I will calmly offer the new shooter a chance to shoot something more relaxing to shoot and make it fun.
Shooting is and can be fun. Not every round shot down range needs to be a fulltiltandboogiehellandDamnation load.

[PJR]

I do annual instruction with a group of women at an area club. There is a core group of regulars and they invite their friends who have little or no experience with guns.

Read Steve's post. He and I have almost the same approach. I start with the basic safety rules, do some visualization practice to keep their eyes on the target, explain swing, stance and foot position.

The advice on doubling up on hearing protection is very good. Frequently new shooters are afraid of the recoil but it's the loud noise that's often the problem.

Another point is that cross dominance among women is far more frequent than with men. One of the merits of my visualization training is it helps me spot who has an opposite master eye.

I teach with a 28 gauge 1100 and an o/u in the same gauge. I prefer the semi because I can set up the stance and hold and then pop a shell in and close the action without having to take it down and load the gun. When I instruct I am the ONLY person who has shells and only one shell at a time in the gun. When they break their first target they will sometimes turn to share the moment with their friends.

Easy targets build confidence. Low 7 at Skeet or lock off a trap machine to through straight aways and move closer to the house. Positive encouragement always. When they break a target you need to respond like it's the best broken target you've ever seen.

I rarely shoot when teaching and can't stand instructors who feel the need to show the students how well they shoot. That discourages the students. It's about teaching them not about showing off.

[jlbraun]

I rarely shoot myself when teaching

:what: :neener:

[PJR]

Quote:
I rarely shoot myself when teaching
:what: :neener:

Good one.:D

I've made the appropriate edits.

[swan hunter]

My wife & I have taught a "ladies only" trap night at the local range for a couple of years...
Check for eye dominance. :scrutiny: It is very frustrating for anyone and it seems more dominant in women. If you have to you can patch the strong eye to shoot with the dominant arm.
Safety, safety, safety! Women are naturally (and rightly so) afraid of guns. They want to know they are being safe. Don't be afraid to over emphasize things like not loading until ready to shoot...Point the muzzle in a safe direction and finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to engage the target. A lot of men have trouble keeping their finger off the trigger!:banghead:
Until they start hitting, move them as close to the thrower as possible and then when they start hitting, move them back.
When they hit their first bird, be prepared to grab the shotgun to allow a victory dance!!! Get excited when the bust one and encouraging while they are still missing!
MAKE IT FUN!!!!:D

[Dave R]

What NOT to do.

-Use a light, single-shot 12ga.
-Use a heavy load.
-Give no instruction on stance.

My dear wife faced the range square, gun 90 degrees to feet. I threw the clay, she fired, and the recoil sat her right down on her fanny. I assume it wasn't so much the amount of recoil, as the stance. No "rear foot" to rock back on.

She broke the clay. But she hasn't expressed any interest in shooting clays since then.

Things you wish you could do over...

[FotoTomas]

Others above have all the good advice. :) I will add on however that success brings on success. When I was learning the skeet game station 7 was what hooked me. Of course when I started to learn the other positions the humility light came on big time but that station 7 made it all right! :)

[Dave McCracken]

A good thread.

Anyone who hands a newbie a heavy load to rock their world deserves at least a flogging and probably neutering. They're as much an enemy of gun owners as Sarah Brady or Josh Sugarman.

In 12 gauge, Fiocchi's 7/8 oz load busts clays nicely, and is a creampuff in most shotguns. Some autos may not cycle, but that's not a big prob.

Winchester "Feather" loads are similar.

Keep the session short, keep it fun, and stay courteous and pleasant.

Women, Bless them, make way better students than men.

[inthemoss]

i do have a .22 that i'm gonna make em shoot first. the targets arent very far away so im bettin when the here it hit they'll jump for joy. when they get ready to shoot clays i have an 1100, and im thinking about get more of a shock pad for it. i never really thought about plugs and muffs though.

dang, right when i think i know a fair amount about the subject, ya'll gotta come out and crush me.:p

[PJR]

A couple of other suggestions for teaching women or any new shooter.

Never assume anything. I once had a lady who was very nervous around shotshells. She didn't understand that they wouldn't just go off in your hand. I dropped a shell on the ground and she winced noticeably. I took a minute to explain to the group how the shells worked and why they wouldn't go off on their own accord.

Secondly, if you only have a 12 gauge start reload some very light loads.

The wife of a friend of mine had a bad experience years earlier when an old boyfriend let her try a 12 gauge with a 3" magnum. It hurt her and she was petrified of recoil.

All I had was a 12 gauge semi-auto but I explained to her that we would start her using a very light load. I started with blanks. Then we progressed to a 3/4 ounce load at 1100fps, then gradually increased shot charge and velocity until she was shooting one ounce shells. She started breaking targets with the 3/4 ounce load and completely forgot about recoil.

Another student of mine brought her husband's 12 gauge Citori that he insisted she use. This gun didn't fit her and pounded the snot out of her. She wasn't hitting anything and was developing a noticeable flinch. I finally grabbed this gun out of her hands and gave her my 28 gauge o/u. Two inkballed targets later and she demanded that I sell her my gun.

I explained that my gun wasn't for sale but I would give her the name of a dealer who could get her one just like it. I happened to know the lady's husband and he was grumbling at me a few weeks later about having to buy his wife a 28 gauge just like mine. He could more than afford it and I had absolutely no sympathy.:)

[sm]

Primer only hulls.

I have no idea of the thousands of primer only hulls I have used for assisting folks, including ladies and kids.

After safety, dryfire, correct basics, ...etc, just having the gun go "bang" adds another dimension.

I/we do this with handgun and rifle ctgs too.
Baby steps and knowing I/we are going to keep them safe, and having fun.

We once had a buddy load up some really super light 3.5" shells, I mean really light.
The ladies and kids had shot the primer only ones. Pretty neat for a lady or kid to say "slapped trigger on a Roman Candle all by myself".

Some jerks saw the ladies with a 835 Ultimag and were just waiting for them to bust their butts.
Ladies shot these super light loads, no problem, just laughing...
Jerks just could not believe these ladies "could handle it" especially the petite teenager.

We all got a kick out that, the ladies and kids thought it was really funny.
"We don't tell everything we know - right?" - said the 14 year old petite teenage lady, bouncing that empty Roman Candle hull in her hand...;)

[PJR]

Women, Bless them, make way better students than men.
They do. More supportive and less competitive.

The absolute WORST is trying to teach a husband and wife team. Tried that a few times and avoid it where possible. If it's a group I prefer to split them along gender lines. Easier for all concerned, especially me.;)

[Calliope]

Just remember guys not to treat us like we're stupid. If we were, we would have gone to someone else to teach us to shoot instead of going to someone we trusted first. Don't do anything to betray that trust. Don't push the sport if it is obvious she's just not going to like it.

I had a huge fear of guns, but a larger fear of losing something precious to me if I didn't at least try to find a compromise. So I asked the S.O. to teach me to shoot. He loaded light loads for me, gave me my pick of his arsenal and didn't flinch when I broke the first 4 shots out of the trap house (standing directly behind the trap house) and didn't laugh when I missed the next four. Then I met Dave McCracken, he honed a few of the things that the S.O. told me and now 4 months later I enjoy the shooting thing more than I thought I would. Had things gone any differently, we might not be having this conversation.

Take care!

[ZeSpectre]

I skimmed so someone else may have mentioned this...

Make sure they know how to dress properly. Low comfortable shoes and high necklines (I know one lady who refused to ever shoot again after some hot brass down the cleavage).

[pax]

Embarrassing to note this, but "dress properly" for shotgunning includes making sure her bra does not have hardware on the front strap. Front-strap hardware and long guns simply don't go together that well.

pax

[sm]

pax,

Thank you for chiming in.
What is the name of that bra you shared not long ago as a suggestion for ladies please?
I feel this thread needs it posted.

See why it is great to have ladies assist ladies ? :D

I dunno, at this part I usually mumble about jogging bras and then "heck if I know, go ask one of them ladies, I forget / I'll get back to once I ask a lady.

Typical guy, I forget once I tell them. :p

"It was gray, I remember it was gray...last lady I assisted said hers was gray..." - Steve scratching head trying to remember...

:)

[sm]

To redeem myself (maybe).

I have been in the lingerie section, with the ladies, and have no problem when they look and ask me about front hardware.
I can even ask the sales lady "where are the ones that don't".
I get funny looks, still I don't care, I do not want a lady hurt.

I do wander about and look at nice oxford shirts, with one or two pockets.
I even have paid attention to what colors a lady likes, or what I think they look good in.

Shooting patches being added to a nice oxford shirt is what I have in mind.

Ladies like nice pretty things, the fact someone - especially a guy listened and paid attention is appreciated

"You look/ would look great in this color".
Ok, that little sneaky deal done...

Surprise a lady with that shirt with a shooter's patch. Either have the folks that come out to the range do one the shirt you bought, or order one already done up.

Ladies...one that started not knowing anything, that progresses and is doing well and gets something like this...oh boy, they really really appreciate it.

Pay attention to equipment they try, and find that works for them.
These little things being shared for husbands, boyfriends, dads, grandparents, family are really appreciated.

One lady is so proud of her brass "shell-knocker-outer".
Another has a shell pouch she went nuts over she tried and works great for her.

Toe protectors - "Yes I look great with my shooting tennis shoes, with toe protector with the top of the broom handle stuck onto it". :p
Her kids had to have these as well.

We all like little gifts of appreciation, so pay attention to students and make notes and assist with the gift giving ideas too.

[JE223]

What I have found works at teaching new shooters of both genders:

1. Keep it fun
2. When explaining things, relate the subject to stuff everyone can understand and keep it to the point. Don't spread gun myths.

3. Machoism doesn't belong anywhere - especially not when trying to dispell this myth about shooters to women who are new to the sport.

Heavier guns and light loads are good too.

[inthemoss]

im in college and i bet most of the picks they have wouldn't fit on THR....:D , but i can find a few. i think a better picture would be one holding a shotgun...yeah, that's wife material.

[NAK]

How about a gun that they can relate to?

[sixgunner455]

Last summer, I took my wife and her sister to shoot clays. We took a youth model Winchester 20g pump, and my favorite 20g side-by-side.

I was not surprised that my 5'3" wife preferred the Winchester. She was able to hit well with it, and it was fun for all three of us.

Keep it low key. We were just out in the middle of nowhere, couple of guns on the tailgate, case of clays, boxes of 20g target loads, hand-thrower that they had fun trying to figure out how to work. I threw for both of them, then they wanted me to "show us" so one of them had to figure out how to throw the clays out of it, and load it w/o breaking them -- wife couldn't get it loaded, so I loaded it for her, then she threw. Do what works, but make sure that it is fun, low key.

[scrat]

i have taught a lot of people how to shoot. it all starts with safety and a good understanding of whats going on. I taught my wife how to shoot some 16 years ago. this past sunday i taught my 8 year old son how to shoot. My 14 year old son will shoot just about anything. He has really taken on to shooting. It just takes a lot of patience on your behalf and knowing how much the person can stand. Just remember safety. Important thing also to remember is just because they are girls dosent mean you need to treat them like they are handicapp. My wife will shoot just as well as anyone else and she will do the big guns too. She is not a big girl either small framed just knows her limits.

here are some pics of my boys.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/scrat36/alex-1.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/scrat36/alex2.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/scrat36/anthony-1.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/scrat36/anthony1.jpg

[inthemoss]

hey NAK, i think i've been to the range where that picture was taken. what was the name again?

[yhtomit]

Hi there!

This recent thread addressed a very similar question, and I hope it's helpful to you:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=265749

(Not that your lady friends are hoplophobes :))

timothy

[NAK]

hey NAK, i think i've been to the range where that picture was taken. what was the name again?
The range is Elf Fork, the City of Dallas Parks Department range. One of the best public ranges I have ever seen.

[inthemoss]

it is one of the best. i love that place. especially the fact that you can use the golf carts.

[kcmarine]

We DEFINITELY need to get more women involved. It helps to reduce the macho stereotype. When was the last time you saw a "feminine" pastime attacked? Never.

[NickHTK]

My wife comes to the indoor range as many times as twice a week. She is a stressed out lawyer type who appreciates the relaxed atmosphere. Saying that she finds the zen like breathing required of competitive smallbore, she has become a very talented shooter.
Took her trap shooting last weekend and she felt embarrassed asking for help because she thought she was interfering and being disruptive. The range officers were really good and made her feel welcome, turning her lessons into a refresher for those of standing around.

[Doggieman]

and yell at them when they do little things wrong, saying "YOU'RE GONNA KILL US ALLLL"