Worst Set of Myths I've Seen


PDA






bclark1
April 2, 2007, 11:39 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17491919/page/5/
MSNBC are apparently small arms experts now. I think the article's an important deterrent to child predators, and I think they've taken on a noble campaign in that respect, but now I'm just distracted by their ridiculous take on guns. Didn't think they were as bad as CNN... guess I was wrong.


As it turns out, we may have been lucky he never made it inside the house.

Officer Pineda: After we actually took him out of the vehicle, he advised us that he had a fire arm on him...

That firearm happened to be a snub-nose revolver in his front pocket--- loaded and ready to fire. But there’s something else.

Pineda: He also had a badge, which says he’s an officer in Alabama.

That’s right, Spikes had gone back being a police officer.

He’s brought back to the Flagler Beach police station.

Outside, the officers searching his SUV make another startling discovery—an arsenal of weapons, including a military assault rifle that was leaning on the passenger seat, ready to fire.

Officer: He had the bolt back and the magazines all he had to do was tap ‘em in.

...with two clips of thirty bullets each.

And that’s just the beginning. Flagler Beach Police Chief Roger Free.

Chief Free: you have a 38 Smith & Wesson special there, Glock 40, and a 45 caliber six round... You have a 12 gauge shotgun back there.

That along with about 800 rounds of ammunition— some of it hollow point bullets, dubbed “copkillers,” used to penetrate bullet-proof vests.


The weapons are secondary - he didn't use them. The AR was not "ready to fire," the bolt was locked back. I don't know about laws down there for travelling with weapons, whether they need to be encased. But he did notify that he was carrying - it's a shame the weapons are just a footnote, seeing as he might not have been breaking firearms laws. Good ol' reporters to make it the central issue, though.

Don't get me wrong, I am NOT defending this guy, or saying he should get a lighter sentence. I just think the news should stay focused on the issue, and should feel a duty to have some knowledge of what they write about. But I guess if that were the case, we'd live in a very different world.

If you enjoyed reading about "Worst Set of Myths I've Seen" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
waynedm
April 2, 2007, 12:12 PM
A great deal of cops don't seem to know their heads from their . . .

I was watching Cops the other night. They arrived at some house where there had been a complaint from the neighbors, they found the house empty of occupants but full of drugs and guns. They pan the camera over to two cops holding an SKS with a 50 round and one cop says "Here's an AK47 assault rifle," then he sets it down and picks up a revolver of some sort (I didn't see it well enough to be able to tell what it was). The officer says it's a .357 magnum, the other cop says 'that's the most powerful handgun in the world! You better take the clip out to make sure it's safe."

Sistema1927
April 2, 2007, 12:12 PM
Do these folks have "gun boilerplate"?

I don't know how many times I have heard of hollow point ammo being described as being able to penetrate body armor in these types of "news" articles. :confused:

K3
April 2, 2007, 12:50 PM
Wouldn't an FMJ be able to penetrate a vest better than a HP?

mbt2001
April 2, 2007, 12:58 PM
Jeez....

This whole thing just makes me want to puke all around.

Zero_DgZ
April 2, 2007, 01:04 PM
Wouldn't an FMJ be able to penetrate a vest better than a HP?

Yes.

Special_K
April 2, 2007, 01:07 PM
Is it just me or is it everyone. . .Every time I hear one of these stories I just want to scream. They don't get the facts right, they dog us for NO reason, label things wrong like assault rifles and semi-automatic rifles and in general are just wrong!

God. . .It's like dealing with an anti-gun person you get no where!!:mad: :barf:

Bazooka Joe71
April 2, 2007, 01:12 PM
Wouldn't an FMJ be able to penetrate a vest better than a HP?

Definately

Yeah that pedofile show on MSBC is rediculous. I want all of those guys to rot in jail, but it just seems like they need to focus more on what they have done wrong in the first place and leave the guns out of the equation...All they are doing is giving us good guys a bad name; its almost like they are trying to correlate pedofiles w/ gun owners.:confused:

MilsurpShooter
April 2, 2007, 01:41 PM
In some states it's required law for the action be open while in transit. cop killer hollow points? yeah :barf:

armedandsafe
April 2, 2007, 01:42 PM
You just don't fully understand the media. He's a pedophile? Ho-hum...baddy. OMG ... He's got a GUN? He's evil, twisted and insane. He's going to kill us ALL, right through the TV!:barf:

Pops

ABTOMAT
April 2, 2007, 01:49 PM
A great deal of cops don't seem to know their heads from their . . .

I was watching Cops the other night. They arrived at some house where there had been a complaint from the neighbors, they found the house empty of occupants but full of drugs and guns. They pan the camera over to two cops holding an SKS with a 50 round and one cop says "Here's an AK47 assault rifle," then he sets it down and picks up a revolver of some sort (I didn't see it well enough to be able to tell what it was). The officer says it's a .357 magnum, the other cop says 'that's the most powerful handgun in the world! You better take the clip out to make sure it's safe."

A while back there was an episode from FL where a guy was stopped with a .22 rifle under a blanket on his back seat. Granted the guy deserved to be arresed for being drunk and breaking transportation laws (I'm assuming), but the police officer kept saying how "the gun's not registered."

cheygriz
April 2, 2007, 02:02 PM
Jeez....

This whole thing just makes me want to puke all around.

:barf: :barf: :barf: I know the feeling! ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN make me want to puke:barf: :barf: :barf:

Zen21Tao
April 2, 2007, 02:06 PM
I remember hunting trips with my uncle some 15 yerars ago. We would both have our shotguns in plain view in the front seat. He told me that as long as it wasn't loaded and the bolt was pulled to the rear it was prefectly legal here in Florida. I don't know if this law has changed since then or not.

The one that got me from the story was calling "hollow point" bullets "cop killer" bullets. In reality ball ammunition stands a MUCH greater chance of penetrating heavy clothing than hollow points do, hence the success of "Powerball" ammo.

Rattlesnake
April 2, 2007, 03:25 PM
I don't know what made me sick the most was the ****** "Spike" from Alabama. I could careless about what NBC/ABC/CBS/CNN says... I know where they stand. The **** that tarnishes the badge... :fire: I'd haul the rope myself.

scurtis_34471
April 2, 2007, 03:53 PM
Here is the letter I sent to Dateline:

I have several issues with your story, "The Scariest Potential Predator," which contained several errors and misrepresentations. The first is that Jacketed Hollow-Point (JHP) rounds are not armor piercing. In fact, they are less effective against body armor than regular ball ammunition used for target shooting. JHP rounds are commonly carried by both police and lawful civilians, because they are more effective against unarmored attackers than target ammo. Since the vast majority of criminals are not wearing body armor, this strategy makes a lot of sense. Virtually all defensive ammunition on the market it JHP and these are not what are commonly called "cop killers."

I also question whether the rifle in question was an assault rifle. By definition, assault rifles are fully-automatic military weapons. Those are very heavily regulated and extremely difficult and expensive to get. It seems more likely that he had what some people call an assault weapon. These are semi-automatic rifles that resemble military weapons, but are legal for civilian ownership (at least in most states). They are commonly used for target shooting, hunting and home defense. I should also note the civilian semi-automatic AR-15 rifles very strongly resemble fully-auto military M-16 rifles, so it is easy to understand where one might become confused.

Possessing a large number of guns is not cause for alarm in and of itself and it is hard to know his intent based on what he had in the car. None of what he had was illegal and none of the guns (other than the revolver) were loaded. From the facts presented, it appears that he was in lawful possession and not violating any laws. My family likes to go shooting together, as it is the one sport we share. On a typical range trip, we may have three semi-auto rifles, two semi-auto pistols and a revolver. It is not unusual for use to have 500+ rounds of ammo in the car on such a trip. I have never had 8,000 rounds in my car, but I do prefer to buy ammo in 1000 round cases because it costs less that way. Its entirely possible (albeit unlikely) that he was transporting this ammo to or from either storage or a place of business.

I am not defending this guy per se. I am simply pointing out that his "arsenal" was not related to the crime and that possession of guns does not equal intent to use them inappropriately. There are millions of Americans with concealed weapons licenses that lawfully carry for self-defense. There are millions of Americans with semi-automatic rifles. There are millions of Americans that legally transport weapons in their vehicles for purposes of both hunting and shooting sports. The overwhelming majority of these people are law-abiding people that should not be stigmatized by association in the press every time a bad-guy gets caught with guns.

goColt
April 2, 2007, 04:48 PM
You just don't fully understand the media. He's a pedophile? Ho-hum...baddy. OMG ... He's got a GUN? He's evil, twisted and insane. He's going to kill us ALL, right through the TV!

+1

To many in the media, there is nothing worse than a gun owner. According to them, the reason for every criminal getting the way he/she is can be traced back to some psychologically traumatic experience in their past. But we gun owners are just a bunch of dangerous nut-jobs that need to be incarcerated, killed or de-fanged for the common-good.

Neo-Luddite
April 2, 2007, 07:31 PM
The show is low rent and appeals to the worst in us all in my book. We watch it to see somebody get pounced on for being deviant. But the big draw is--jumping on someone. No surprise they play fast and loose with reality. The interesting part is--if the bizarros they catch would just keep their mouths shut and admit nothing--they would probably walk away un-convicted.

The police officer is bad, but they've had doctors and teachers, etc. I've often thought what would they do if someone pulled a gun or other weapon--I would have a hard time feeling bad for those involved--they are inviting the lowest of the low into a set up for dramatic purposes.

I get sucked into watching it too--but my wife (rightfully) gets mad and switches the channel.

plexreticle
April 2, 2007, 08:04 PM
Since when has the media been concerned with reality?

tsalagikola
April 2, 2007, 08:23 PM
Here in Alabama the weapons do not have to be cased, but you can not have a drum or clip or Mag that can be attached to a gun that holds over 100 rounds at a time you can have as many as you want just it can't hold over 100 rounds at a time.

And having guns on school 13A-11-74, no person shall knowingly with intent
to do bodily harm carry or possess a deadly weapon on the premises of a public school.(d) Possession of a deadly weapon with the intent
to do bodily harm on the premises of a public school in violation of subsection (c) of this section is a Class C felony.

(e) Law enforcement officers are exempt from this section, and persons with pistol permits issued pursuant to Section 13A-11-75, are exempt from the
provisions of subsection (c) of this section.

And I have been told by some School Resource Officers (School Police Officers) if they need me they will get me one way or another and they said they are afraid one of these days they may need my help. I live about 5 minutes from 3 schools.


The things he is charged with he will never be able to own a gun in Alabama again.

His statement

"luvs2eaturpeach: i wont sweetie, i cant id go 2 prison & thats like a death sentence. inmates hate cops they try 2 kill em in prison"


Its not because he was a cop, I don't know how it is in other states but anyone that has hurt a child or a child molester will not live long in an Alabama prison they have to put them in another part so they will not get killed but some still gets killed because they was a child molester.

Rattlesnake
April 2, 2007, 11:07 PM
"luvs2eaturpeach: i wont sweetie, i cant id go 2 prison & thats like a death sentence. inmates hate cops they try 2 kill em in prison"


Its not because he was a cop, I don't know how it is in other states but anyone that has hurt a child or a child molester will not live long in an Alabama prison they have to put them in another part so they will not get killed but some still gets killed because they was a child molester.

It's because of both. Former LEO typically end up PCed (protective custody) resulting in them being sent to max security solitary confinement. Child molesters and general population do not go together well. So child molesters end up in thier own prison facilities or in their own pod/cell blocks.

salthouse
April 2, 2007, 11:16 PM
Don't think for a second that the press gets other stories right and just gets the gun stories wrong. They screw up EVERYTHING, we just happen to notice the stories that we know something about. And of course, 99% of the pop just accepts it all as facts. The dumbing down of America.

thexrayboy
April 2, 2007, 11:46 PM
You actually alotted valuable minutes of life that can not be replaced to
a sideshow bob and his traveling media circus? The inaccuracies and misinformation touted as fact make 99+% of these alleged news shows a total waste of time. Facts are ignored if they are not sensationalistic or do not match the medias agenda. Falsehoods are proclaimed to be the word handed down from on high. All in all these self serving ratings obsessed
entertainment masquerading as news shows are a waste of time, money and
electricity. The good that may come from them occasionally is never enough
to balance out the harm they do from agenda driven propagandizations.

Zen21Tao
April 3, 2007, 01:28 AM
(My 2 cents after reading the entire story)

Let me just add that I am somewhat failure with Flagler Beach. I grew up about 45 minutes south and had a very good friend that was a Flagler Country Sheriffs Deputy. Most people, including LEOs, in this general area of Florida (Central Florida and North Central Florida) are very gun friendly. These officers’ mischaracterizations of firearms are quite surprising.

Equally surprising is how the media tries to draw a connection between child molesters and people having firearms on them and in their vehicles. There are a great many Floridians that legally carry concealed weapon on them and have firearms in their vehicles. When I travel from my college campus to my hometown I usually take quite a few guns and a small cache of ammo with me in case I want to do some shooting or some hunting. This pervs “arsenal” shouldn’t highlighted as being especially important just because the person turned out to be a pedophile. There was absolutely no indication that he tried to use any of these weapons. This is just more fear mongering.

In fact if it hadn’t been shown that this “cop” is in fact a pedophile, he would be one of the very few people that the Brady Campaign thinks should be allowed to be armed.

fourtwentytexas
April 3, 2007, 02:04 AM
You just don't fully understand the media. He's a pedophile? Ho-hum...baddy. OMG ... He's got a GUN? He's evil, twisted and insane. He's going to kill us ALL, right through the TV!

+1

hollow point bullets, dubbed “copkillers,” used to penetrate bullet-proof vests.
Give me a break! :barf:

The officer says it's a .357 magnum, the other cop says 'that's the most powerful handgun in the world! You better take the clip out to make sure it's safe.
LMFAO!

DWARREN123
April 3, 2007, 03:27 AM
Idiots don't even know which way is up.

gotarheels03
April 3, 2007, 03:37 AM
wow, the cop says "he had two clips of 30 bullets each." They're magazines not clips, and bullets are generally referred to as rounds.

"Hansen: Is there any legitimate reason for a cop to be driving around with all that firepower?"

If this cop wasn't a pedophile it would be perfectly OK for him to drive arouind "with all that firepower." He didn't have any illegal weapons and wasn't breaking any firearms laws. If I wanted to drive somewhere with rifles and ammo in my car I don't NEED a legitimate reason so long as I comply with the law.

And the whole "hollowpoint" thing. I don't know how often I hear them referred to as "cop killers" or as having some other sinister purpose. In the Harold fish case one of the jurors thought the fact that he used hollowpoints was disturbing.:banghead:

Dr. Dickie
April 3, 2007, 08:06 AM
And this is yet another example of what we should not let them get away with.
Perhaps the person writing the story didn't care about the truth, but as likely he simply was ignorant of the truth and printed what he thought was correct (thus perpetuating the myth and lies). When you see something like this, we should e-mail the reporter, correct him, call him, do not let him get away with it.
There was a story recently just south of me where a reporter wrote about someone caught with "cop killer" teflon bullets. I e-mailed him and asked him since he called them "cop killer" bullets he should have no problem providing me with the citations of how many times these bullets have been used to kill cops.
His silence was deafening. Hopefully, he will at least pause to consider before using that phrase again.
It is not much, but it IS something we can do to help change this.
(Yes, I am going to e-mail the reporter of this story)

shc1
April 3, 2007, 08:43 AM
"Hansen: Is there any legitimate reason for a cop to be driving around with all that firepower?"
While I’m not a cop, in my case it’s a trip to the range.
If I shoot slow might make an afternoon out of it.

Still wondering about the phrase “cop killer bullets”.
Do they have any affect on anyone else?

waterhouse
April 3, 2007, 11:53 AM
This is just another example of media misinformation trickling its way down to police. Police are just like anyone else in America. . . a fair number of them know nothing about guns other than what they have been told.

At least once a day another Agent asked me "So, what did you do before you joined the Border Patrol?"

"Oh, I did some computer programming and ran a small gun business."

Then the questions started:
"Did you sell any copkiller bullets before they were banned? I usually don't put on my vest since it doesn't matter with those things."

"How much will it cost for you to get me one of the M4s like we get issued? Oh, there are are lot of laws involved will full auto for civilians? Everyone who gets arrested on the news seems to have them."

"Oh, so your are a gun guy, huh? The way I see it, we have to carry guns because we do dangerous stuff. But I don't get these people who carry all the time. I mean, if you think you'll need a gun, obviously you are going somewhere you shouldn't be going, right?"

There were dozens more examples. Some people just don't know any better than what they have heard. I read official intelligence reports that reported that smugglers we had arrested were carrying machine guns. (Reality=semi auto SKSs and Rugers.) This was not done out of malice or to lie and make the situation worse than it seemed, it was just that the guy writing the report didn't know better.

Anyhow, thanks to the media we have guys out there not wearing vests because they know cop killer bullets will go right through them. (Keep in mind that the vests are pretty uncomfortable, and someone might make just about any excuse to convince their wife it isn't worth wearing, but if they actually believe the cop killing bullets one it is a shame.)

Jdoc
April 3, 2007, 02:20 PM
:barf: :barf: :barf:

toivo
April 3, 2007, 05:31 PM
A while back there was an episode from FL where a guy was stopped with a .22 rifle under a blanket on his back seat. Granted the guy deserved to be arresed for being drunk and breaking transportation laws (I'm assuming), but the police officer kept saying how "the gun's not registered."
I saw that episode--it was one of the "Coast to Coast" ones, so they had segments from all over. I believe the incident you're talking about was in California. I assumed when I saw it that CA had registration of long guns, but it doesn't.

As I recall, the guy had a Marlin Model 60 in the back seat of his car. The tube was full, which means 14 or 17 rounds. The officer unloaded it by racking the charging handle instead of pulling the tube plug out, and the rounds just kept coming and coming... IIRC the guy was charged with having the loaded gun in the car.

Carl N. Brown
April 4, 2007, 06:36 PM
The pedophile was a cop and had guns in his car and
the media go . . . ballistic.

If the pedophile was a tree surgeon and had ropes,
chainsaws and hatchets in his car, would they have
made as big a deal?

If the pedophile was an electrician and had cable ties,
tape and soldering irons in his car, would they have
made as big a deal?

Why assume that because X had the tools of his work
in the car, that he intended to use those tools against
the "teen" (adult posing as a teen) or the arresting
officers?

We not only learned about the obsessions of pedophiles,
we learned about the obsessions of news media (and
some TV star-struck cops) as well.

If you enjoyed reading about "Worst Set of Myths I've Seen" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!