Carry same type of ammo as your commanding state agency


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Para4577
April 3, 2007, 01:31 AM
There was recently a case in Maryland where a homeowner shot and killed a man who had entered his home and then his bedroom. The homeowner warned the subject that he would be shot if he entered the bedroom. When the subject entered the bedroom after being warned several times, the homeowner feared for his life and his family's lives, and fired four shots. three shot hit the subject in the chest and one in the neck. The homeowner had used federal hydra shoks.
Now the kicker of this story is that there was a very anti gun lawyer in the DA's office who decided to bring charges against the homeowner for malicious intent because of the fact that he had his gun loaded with hydra shoks. The attorney stated that because the homeowner had loaded his gun with hydra shoks, his total intent was to use them to maliciously kill someone.
The Prosecuter had a Sgt. From the Maryland state police testify as to the ballistic capabilities and lethality of the federal hydra shok.

To make a long story short, the defense asked two questions on cross examination of the State Trooper. He asked the following two questions to the trooper

Defense Attorney: "Trooper, What kind of ammunition does your department ISSUE you to carry in your DUTY weapon?

Trooper: The Federal Hydra Shok

Defense Attorney: "Trooper would you say that the Maryland State police issued you that particular type of ammunition because they want to maliciously kill another?"

Trooper: "No Sir"

Prosecuter: "Your Honor, at this time the state would ask the court to dismiss the charges brought against the Defendant."

I Highly recommend that you find out from a state patrolman, or state trooper in your state what brand and model ammunition they are issued to carry in their weapons ( it is public information, you can approach them and ask them what they carry and they cannot withhold that information.) and carry the same thing.

In ohio where I live, The state police carry the Winchester SXT (The old Black Talon) and thats what i carry in my concealed carry rigs.

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Car Knocker
April 3, 2007, 01:42 AM
Do you have a cite for this case?

heypete
April 3, 2007, 02:12 AM
Do you have a cite for this case?

Seriously...why would the prosecutor move to drop the case if the state brought the case in the first place? That makes no sense. That sounds like a move that a defense attorney would pull.

I've heard of numerous defensive shootings. Nearly all let the defender off without charges (and rightfully so). A few were questionable, and in some cases the defender was charged and tried (with mixed results, depending on the situation). All the situations I've heard about dealt solely with whether or not the shoot was a legitimate shoot. The type of ammo involved was not relevant, even in the questionable cases.

The Arizona State Police carry Sigs with a .40 S&W JHP round (I know because one of my friends works for the AZ DPS). I don't carry a .40, nor do I own any guns in that caliber. I could care less with what they carry -- I'd much rather review ballistic evidence that's been published, examine claims made by the manufacturers (Federal provides photographs of their bullets in ballistic gel, Speer has let gun-writers test their products in calibrated ballistic gel at Speer's own expense, etc. All the major companies provide ballistic data.), and pick what I believe to be the best round for the job.

For me, I carry Federal HST's in .45 ACP, as they expand reliably, consistently, and reach a very wide diameter when fired into water-filled milkjugs. Speer Gold Dots are also excellent bullets, but don't expand nearly as much in my testing (impressive expansion, yes, but not quite the same as the newer HST). I would feel confident carrying any of the major brand offerings of defensive ammo, so long as they ran reliably (Remington Golden Saber, Federal Hydrashok, Speer Gold Dot, Winchester SXT, etc.) in my pistol.

My local police department use Federal 12ga buckshot in their patrol shotguns. I prefer Winchester Super-X, Remington Reduced Recoil, or Remington Slugger rounds for serious work and Wolf shot/slugs for fun. The Federal birdshot loadings are cheap and fun at the range, but the Federal buckshot doesn't seem to pattern quite as nicely out of my shotgun.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd recommend basing one's carry choice off of the best available data, performance in one's environment (being in the north where people wear heavy clothing in the winter would have me choose different ammo than living here in Arizona), and performance in one's personal firearms, not just what the police are carrying.

Autolycus
April 3, 2007, 02:16 AM
Please give a case where this has happened. If you want to suggest that the CCWer use the same type of ammo then it would only follow that they should use the same type of gun.

legion3
April 3, 2007, 06:10 AM
Legally this "carry the same ammo as your cops" idea is nonsense.

Even in Maryland the idea of a castle-doctrine shooting and the state "dropping all charges" especially in open court :uhoh: ... sounds like further nonsense...

Even anti-gun DA's have to justify their budgets to someone...

Unless this "homeowner" made a habit of shooting "intruders" in his bedroom this case would be a loser for a DA to pursue...

Westlaw or Lexis-Nexus cite number please :confused:

MPanova
April 3, 2007, 06:39 AM
In Texas we dont have to bother with knowing what the cops carry :rolleyes:

If someone breaks in to our home in Texas we can use what ever we want to kill those SOB's

I am also not worried about the courts. I have been through killing a home invader twice. My theory is.. If you break in to my home you die PERIOD

DMK
April 3, 2007, 08:36 AM
State agencies buy their supplies from the lowest bidder or have to choose from limited options on a state contract. Is this a practice you want to emulate for your carry ammo?

I've seen the ammo on NC state contract. It's not the ammo that I'd choose to buy (although some would).

Double Naught Spy
April 3, 2007, 10:11 AM
No case name or number, no names in the case, no city for the case, no court specified, the prosecution asking the case to be dropped because of ammo used by state troopers, and asking for the witness to draw a conclusion concerning the actions of another where the witness isn't part of the decision process and the decision to ask for charges to be dropped being based on that answer....just does not make any sense.

This has all the hallmarks of urban myth...missing critical reference data, having specific data to the claim that can't be verified, then drawing a warning or conclusion from the unverifiable specific data.

By the way, Para4577, why is it that the State Police are the key comparative agency? Why can't it be the local cops, sheriff, constable, or other state or local LE agency? Why can't it be the Border Patrol, FBI, Treasury Dept, Marshalls, Homeland Security or other federal agency?

SWModel19
April 3, 2007, 01:58 PM
Para4577 - Welcome to TheHighRoad. This isn't like most other boards you'll find out there - which is why it is the one I frequent the most.

Myths get debunked here.

Urban legends get trashed here.

Questionable "events" get questioned here.

The truth gets told here.


It is a great place to hang out.:D

The Law
April 3, 2007, 02:54 PM
There seem to be a few problems with that "story":

1) Defense counsel would be on its feet instantaneously making the motion to dismiss, not the Prosecutor. The DA would probably get fired for trying to dismiss his own prosecution, especially after such a foul up. The DA would be trying to cover up or minimize his error, not throw the whole thing out.

2) "Objection! Calls for speculation!" How can the trooper know what the State of Maryland intended to do or not do?

3) We need a case citation to really clear this up. Until then, this is an urban legend, plain and simple. :banghead:

cookekdjr
April 3, 2007, 03:35 PM
This has all the hallmarks of urban myth...missing critical reference data, having specific data to the claim that can't be verified, then drawing a warning or conclusion from the unverifiable specific data.

dingdingdingdingdingdingding!!!!
I believe we have a winner.

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