Carry a Springfield XD cocked or uncocked?


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WestonSmith
April 3, 2007, 04:41 AM
Hi, I have a question for any of you who are knowledgeable about Springfield XDs. As far as using them for concealed carry, are they designed/meant to be carried cocked with a round in the chamber or uncocked without a round in the chamber?

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legion3
April 3, 2007, 04:57 AM
Yes ... cocked with a round in the chamber ... ready to go bang with little or no fuss ... no modern defensive/police handgun is designed to be carried any other way....

GVMan
April 3, 2007, 11:01 AM
I don't have an XD but after reading about them I am confused about the safety features. I do not understand the point of the XD's "striker status" safety feature. If I have a round in the chamber, the loaded chamber indicator will indicate so. Because there is no way to de-cock the XD after chambering a round, how could the striker ever be uncocked? Aren't these two safety features really telling me the same thing?

possum
April 3, 2007, 11:11 AM
WestonSmith,
i am the proud owner of 2 xd's and i carry them locked cocked and ready to rock at all times. no matter what type of holster they are in, or if they are pulling home defense duty on the nightstand.
Yes ... cocked with a round in the chamber ... ready to go bang with little or no fuss ... no modern defensive/police handgun is designed to be carried any other way....
+1

waynedm
April 3, 2007, 11:12 AM
I don't have an XD but after reading about them I am confused about the safety features. I do not understand the point of the XD's "striker status" safety feature. If I have a round in the chamber, the loaded chamber indicator will indicate so. Because there is no way to de-cock the XD after chambering a round, how could the striker ever be uncocked? Aren't these two safety features really telling me the same thing?

Exactly. This is one of the many reasons those guns are :barf:

People seem to fall for these silly things these days.

Loaded chamber indicators: we're relying on this now instead of basic firearms safety and because the Democrats want it?

Cocked indicators on SA-only guns like XDs: How can you get a round chambered without it being cocked?

Backstrap Safety: How is it going to go off if your hand isn't on the thing and disabling it anyway? Extra :barf: to Springfield for making it so you can't rack the slide on the XD without the backstrap being depressed.

We need to get back to the basics and away from all this tacticool nonsense that advertising has us chasing. It's always loaded. Keep the booger hook off the bang switch unless target is acquired and you intend to fire. Keep the muzzle pointed away from anything you don't intend to kill.

Come on, people.

kludge
April 3, 2007, 11:13 AM
The XD can be cocked without a round in the chamber, so... not really. But I see what you're getting at.

Coyote3855
April 3, 2007, 11:15 AM
GVMan:

I've been considering an XD based on excellent reports from owners and in the gun rags. I've not even handled an XD. I am familiar with the features you question only through what I've read.

As I understand how the two indicators work, they are telling you different things. Given Murphy's Law, the loaded chamber indicator tells you there is something in the chamber, not necessarily a loaded round. I'm guessing an unextracted empty would trigger the loaded chamber indicator? The little pin on the back of the slide says the striker is pre-loaded or "cocked."

Short of a parts failure, I think you're correct. If there's a round in the pipe, the striker should be cocked. But if there is a major malflunction, I can envision a situation where the chamber flag would be up, but the striker wouldn't be cocked. Imagine a 1911 with a hammer that follows the slide. Similar malfunction. I don't know if it's possible with an XD. Some of the hype is that you can check the condition of the pistol in the dark by touching the striker pin and the chamber indicator.

FWIW.

Coyote

waynedm
April 3, 2007, 11:23 AM
Some of the hype is that you can check the condition of the pistol in the dark by touching the striker pin and the chamber indicator.

IE tacticool. It's all just Mall Ninja stuff.

TX1911fan
April 3, 2007, 11:31 AM
Waynedm, I can appreciate your personal preferences, but I assure you that a grip safety is not "tacticool, mall ninja stuff." I believe we have had grip safeties for almost 100 years. Pretty proven track record, given that they are on the most popular handguns of the twentieth century (and given the number of companies making and selling 1911s, and the number of 1911s being purchased, one of the most popular handguns on the 21st century as well). You can give an opinion wihtout being nasty. Your way just makes me think you have some sort of personal prejudice, so I ignore what you have to say.

Back on topic. The XD is a fantastic pistol. I like the fact that there is an additional safety in the grip given that there is no way to decock this gun (other than unlaoding and dry firing). I have wondered why there is a cocking indicator and a loaded chamber indicator, but the explanations above make sense.

Also, Springfield does not intend any of the indicators to take the place of basic safety. However, having a loaded chamber indicator would come in particulalry handy for certain people. I would imagine a police officer or soldier who would like to know if his sidearm is loaded, but would prefer not to make any noise, or is in the dark and cannot see, would like to be able to just run his finger over the top of his weapon and have it confirmed.

Exmasonite
April 3, 2007, 11:35 AM
Hi, I have a question for any of you who are knowledgeable about Springfield XDs. As far as using them for concealed carry, are they designed/meant to be carried cocked with a round in the chamber or uncocked without a round in the chamber?

Absolutely carried with round in the chamber and ready to fire when carrying. No way you want to deal with having to rack the slide in the heat of the moment. That's the potential 1/2 second you don't have to spare.

Forget about the loaded chamber and cocking indicators. If the gun is on your hip for personal protection, you'd better be damn sure as to its status without having to rely on these features.

Between the trigger and grip safeties, the gun won't go off on its own unless you are holding it and pull the trigger.

Around the house/nightstand, it may be appropriate to keep the gun unchambered but out in the real world, i can't see any reason to not have a round in the chamber.

MrTuffPaws
April 3, 2007, 12:21 PM
Exactly. This is one of the many reasons those guns are

People seem to fall for these silly things these days.

Loaded chamber indicators: we're relying on this now instead of basic firearms safety and because the Democrats want it?

Cocked indicators on SA-only guns like XDs: How can you get a round chambered without it being cocked?

Backstrap Safety: How is it going to go off if your hand isn't on the thing and disabling it anyway? Extra to Springfield for making it so you can't rack the slide on the XD without the backstrap being depressed.

We need to get back to the basics and away from all this tacticool nonsense that advertising has us chasing. It's always loaded. Keep the booger hook off the bang switch unless target is acquired and you intend to fire. Keep the muzzle pointed away from anything you don't intend to kill.

Come on, people.

Oh lord. How can you blame the Democrats for the XD? It was designed in Croatia with all of its current features. :rolleyes:

waynedm
April 3, 2007, 01:51 PM
I can blame the loaded chamber indicators on the Democrats because it's one of the 'safety' features they want, SEE: PRK.

Backstrap safeties are fine on the 1911, it doesn't inhibit the use of the slide like on the XD.

GhostRider66
April 3, 2007, 02:44 PM
Oh lord. How can you blame the Democrats for the XD? It was designed in Croatia with all of its current features.

You do know that those Croat Democrats are as bad as Illinois Nazis right?:neener:

bruss01
April 3, 2007, 04:24 PM
An XD can be in a "not cocked" position with a live round in the chamber if for some reason the round did not go off on the first strike. Admittedly, this would be a rare condition (I have not experienced this in my XD) but it is possible since I have had several guns where a round failed to ignite after the trigger was pulled. Sometimes it is not even a "dud" round because it will go off on the second try with my da/sa guns. Sometimes you just get a hard primer. The XD will also show loaded chamber and not cocked if the case fails to eject. Again, not something common but you'd definitely want to know that before trying to use the gun. When the two indicators aren't in agreement, something is wrong and bears checking out.

I don't think the cocked indicator is there for this reason, though. I think it's just so the XD will be allowed in geographic regions where a cocked indicator is a mandatory safety feature.

I like that the slide cannot be pushed out of battery unless firmly held by the grip. A gun is not going to be out of battery or have the slide cycle without you really meaning to do that. Guns have been made for decades that work without this feature... so what? Well you can say that about any other kind of innovation, we got along without it all right before... I would like the XD just fine with or without this feature. I notice that it does make people who aren't all that familiar with guns smile when you explain it to them, and that can't be a bad thing.

Outlaw Man
April 3, 2007, 05:15 PM
I like that the slide cannot be pushed out of battery unless firmly held by the grip. A gun is not going to be out of battery or have the slide cycle without you really meaning to do that. Guns have been made for decades that work without this feature... so what? Well you can say that about any other kind of innovation, we got along without it all right before... I would like the XD just fine with or without this feature. I notice that it does make people who aren't all that familiar with guns smile when you explain it to them, and that can't be a bad thing.
I attempted to reholster my Pro-9 once when I finished at a place where I couldn't carry. I had, without thinking, re-tightened my belt and thus tightened the IWB holster. I racked the slide back about halfway before I realized what was going on. I don't believe I had enough of a grip against the backstrap that I'd have disengaged the safety if it were an XD.

Its a rare occurance, but in retrospect that would have saved me from a panicked suffle to get the gun back in order.

walking arsenal
April 3, 2007, 05:58 PM
Exactly. This is one of the many reasons those guns are

People seem to fall for these silly things these days.

Loaded chamber indicators: we're relying on this now instead of basic firearms safety and because the Democrats want it?

Cocked indicators on SA-only guns like XDs: How can you get a round chambered without it being cocked?

Backstrap Safety: How is it going to go off if your hand isn't on the thing and disabling it anyway? Extra to Springfield for making it so you can't rack the slide on the XD without the backstrap being depressed.

We need to get back to the basics and away from all this tacticool nonsense that advertising has us chasing. It's always loaded. Keep the booger hook off the bang switch unless target is acquired and you intend to fire. Keep the muzzle pointed away from anything you don't intend to kill.

Come on, people.

1. The loaded chamber indicator, in my opinion, is great. It lets me check if my gun is loaded with having to fool around with the slide. In other words it's a safe way to check you gun. I believe this would fall under your "gun safety".

2. The cocking indicator is also a nice feature, again, my opinion. It's not a needed feature, granted, but in tandem with the loaded chamber indicator it works well with letting you know that the gun is loaded.

3. I wouldn't carry an XD if i didn't have the back strap safety. This is why i dont carry a Glock, that and the grip, I hate the grip angle. If i drop my XD (it happens) the saftety both the back and the trigger safety will help ensure that it's less likely to go off.

Combine all that with your last statement about keeping fingers were they belong and you have a very safe firearm.

bb21
April 3, 2007, 06:45 PM
First of all I am a new owner of an XD and I am no way an expert on the gun. I shot my XD45 compact for the 1st time yesterday, I am very pleased with it to say the least.
The features of the XD DO NOT eliminate the need for safety or need for "press" checks. The 5 rules still apply, the XD manual states all this numerous times. They are features, they are liked by some and disliked by others, they do have uses and are helpful to some.
I personally like a loaded chamber indicator and I also like to know I am "cocked. For example my Taurus Mil Pro has a loaded chamber indicator but when in a holster there is no way of telling if it is cocked. The XD is the same, but my thumb will tell me I am cocked when I rub it over the cocking indicator. Does that mean there is a round in the chamber, no but for me it is a good indicator because I never leave my guns cocked with a round in the chamber, unless I am carrying.
It doesn't eliminate the need to open the slide and visually and physically check the chamber for a round either, I do that often.
Glock's have what some may call a cocking indicator, the trigger, it is further back than when it is cocked, same as my Mil Pro. The grip safety in my opinion is an excellent safety, it is in-obtrusive and as stated above, has been proven in the 1911 design. I personally like the fact the slide won't rack without being pressed, just me. I believe most children would have a hard time engaging the grip safety and trigger safety, just my opinion.
My point is to each his own if you don't like the features of the XD don't buy one but it doesn't mean that they are useless or a bad design it is just different.

Two Cold Soakers
April 3, 2007, 06:56 PM
I hate illinois nazis.

Steve C
April 3, 2007, 07:02 PM
Most modern striker fired semi auto like the Glocks do not have a cocked position, the firing pin in stead rests in an intermediate position that even if it where to release would not have enough force to fire the pistol. The firing pin is only retracted to, for lack of better words, "full cock" when the trigger is pulled similar to a double action pistol or revolver.

They won't go off if dropped, slammed to the ground, dropped of a 20 story building or from any other impact force.

Pull the trigger with a chambered round and they'll go off, just like a DA revolver. Don't pull the trigger and short of dropping one in a fire, it will not go off.

Think that a grip safety makes you safe? Well that's fine, people think all sorts of things "make them safe" but you would be as well off with a rabbits foot.

RNB65
April 3, 2007, 07:11 PM
As far as using them for concealed carry, are they designed/meant to be carried cocked with a round in the chamber or uncocked without a round in the chamber?

Absolutely. Chamber loaded, ready to fire.

I've fired more rounds from XD's than most other pistols combined and I love everything about them. If something goes bump in the night, I'll roll out of bed with an XD in one hand and a flashlight in the other. Their fixed sights are reasonably accurate for a self-defense weapon and they're totally reliable. You boys can argue features until you turn blue, but, IMHO, SA hit a grand-slam the day they bought the import rights to that gun. :)

yongxingfreesty
April 3, 2007, 07:19 PM
xDs, one of my first handguns. finish was not very good, i got it rid of it to get a glock. didnt like the way it looked like legos.

XDSC
April 3, 2007, 08:12 PM
I know there are just as many XD haters as there are Glock lovers.
Personally, I can't tell much of a difference between my XD sub and G27 other than the G27 has a wider grip. I can say with 100% confidence, give me an XD over a S&W anyday! Just my .02

zahc
April 3, 2007, 09:15 PM
The cocked indicator comes in handy for dry firing.

stolivar
April 3, 2007, 09:42 PM
On a Glock while holstering you can accidentally get something caught in the trigger housing while holstering. (bang your shot)

While on an XD if this happens you do not get a Bang if you keep your hand off the back strap while holstering.

If you notice no trigger had to be anywhere near the trigger for the Glock to go off....


steve:neener:

Coronach
April 4, 2007, 02:40 AM
xDs, one of my first handguns. finish was not very good, i got it rid of it to get a glock. didnt like the way it looked like legos....so, let me get this straight. The XD looks more like Legos than a Glock? :scrutiny:

Mike :D

WestonSmith
April 4, 2007, 02:49 AM
Some of you sound surprised by this post. How this conversation with these people actually happened is I was talking with one of my roommates, I have 5 of them, about my new XD handgun I just bought and how I was wanting to get a concealed firearms permit. I also mentioned to the roommate that I called the local police department and they said it even would be legal to have a cocked and loaded firearm in your place of residence without a permit. One of my other roommates overheard our conversation. He acted startled and was like \"You are not going to walk around with a loaded and cocked gun! That is just plain stupid! Police do not even do that! It is not that hard to just pull the slide back to cock a gun when you need it! I will give you $50 if police walk around with guns cocked with a round in the chamber! If I ever find someone who has a loaded and cocked gun, I will call the police even if they have a permit for it!\" I then said that I did not see much point in having a magazine in a gun if you are not going to pull the slide back. Then the roommate that I was first talking with said that most people who carry concealed usually have it cocked and locked with a round in the chamber. Because of this conversation, I was a little worried. When I was looking at different handguns, I intentionally looked for one that requires racking the slide instead of a double action first trigger pull, because I figured that it would help the accuracy of the first shot if I ever ever had to use a handgun. Then when the second roommate said not to have it cocked, I was hoping that I did not make a bad decision by buying a handgun that is not a double action for the first shot.

Valkman
April 4, 2007, 03:02 AM
It is not that hard to just pull the slide back to cock a gun when you need it!

Your friend is an idi- er, misinformed. He knows nothing about carrying yet he's going to regale you with his non-knowledge.

Fact: If it takes you two hands to get the gun into action you are screwing up. You may be fending off an attack also and a guy in Las Vegas got injured bad because he needed two hands to get his fanny pack open.

There's nothing illegal about cocked/locked and it's the ONLY way to carry. Yes cops do carry that way. With the grip safety (unlike a Glock) the gun will not fire until you want it to. I've carried this way since '93 and it's never gone off! :scrutiny:

If I ever find someone who has a loaded and cocked gun, I will call the police even if they have a permit for it!

This guy really doesn't have a clue.

Ignore the XD hater - these are great guns. Yes the early ones had finish problems but that's been solved. No need to carry a 1940 .38 special because someone might call it "tactical" - carry what you want to carry.

legion3
April 4, 2007, 08:02 AM
WestonSmith - you need to collect your $50 from your roomate, I am a LEO and I carry it "locked and cocked"...in a Glock...with no safety :eek:

I sure hope your roomate doesn't call the cops :what: on me...


BYW, the Israeli's train with no round in the chamber, they practice drawing and racking the slide... or they did when I was doing some training with them some years ago, but I think they still do.

That being said I know of no LEO's who carry their weapons with no round in the chamber...even when we carried Beretta 92's it was one in the chamber, safety off...pull and shoot...

Your roomate is wrong!

Fish Miner
April 4, 2007, 08:48 AM
The main reason I got my XD was for the indicator and the backstrap (and it feels way better then a Glock). My abilities and my wifes are different, I like that she can just look and feel if there is a round in, before she tries to drop the mag and rack the slide. The more comfort she feels the better off I am. I am at almost 1000 rounds and it gets better everytime I shoot.:)

possum
April 4, 2007, 08:54 AM
xDs, one of my first handguns. finish was not very good, i got it rid of it to get a glock. didnt like the way it looked like legos
Who cares what it looks like?:confused:

Marshall
April 4, 2007, 09:04 AM
Yes, I carry my XD-40 cocked and with a topped off mag. The only way to go. :)

Coronach
April 4, 2007, 10:41 AM
As I said via PM, your friend obviously knows nothing about guns. The XD is, actually, designed as a duty gun, and could be the very weapon carried by the police in your area (not exceptionally likely, as they have a fairly small marketshare, but possible nonetheless). Even if it is not, there is a very very very good chance they carry Glocks. If they do, your friend would be horrified to learn that the Glock is designed like the XD, and even lacks one of the XD's safety features. It is indeed carried with a round in the chamber.

Collect your $50, and put it towards a training course in how to use your new handgun. Take your friend if he's willing to learn something.

Mike

PS Oh, and no one- no one- carries a defensive gun without a chambered round. It is far too slow to get into action that way.

PPS Someone is about to say "except the Israelis", and they'd be correct...but that is a product of 1. using many different styles of autoloaders and having a need for a common manual of arms and 2. the fact that it is a military policy. Certainly no one, even the Israelis, think it is ideal.

Grayrider
April 4, 2007, 02:55 PM
Well said indeed, and yes my XD45 (when carried) has a round in the chamber. When I was a reserve police officer, my duty Colt Gold Cup had a round in the chamber, was cocked and locked at all times. My usual CCW pistol is a Kimber CDP Pro Carry, and it is kept C&L as well. The only guns I have ever been iffy about carrying that way are sub-compact pistols in DAO. Then I simply make sure the holster has good trigger coverage with a rigid material, and am very careful when holstering to make sure nothing contacts the trigger.

As for the extra "safety" features on the XD, I say why not? Nothing about them changes my safety procedures, but it is nice to have an extra check of the weapons status for those of us who are obsessive about making sure everything is as it should be. I find it reassuring to verify the weapon is ready to go at a glance. Of course seeing the hammer back on a 1911 is much the same.

John

ZeSpectre
April 4, 2007, 03:34 PM
WestonSmith...

One of my other roommates overheard our conversation. He acted startled and was like "You are not going to walk around with a loaded and cocked gun! That is just plain stupid! "

There is a great video out there on a simulated knife attack. The bad guy was (if I remember correctly) about 25 feet away and was almost always able to close and strike before the defender could draw and fire. Add the time needied to rack a slide and then engage and you are pretty much screwed.

Police do not even do that! It is not that hard to just pull the slide back to cock a gun when you need it! I will give you $50 if police walk around with guns cocked with a round in the chamber!

Didja collect your $50? When I was an LEO my gun always had a round in the chamber. Now that I carry concealed my carry weapon always has a round in the chamber.

If I ever find someone who has a loaded and cocked gun, I will call the police even if they have a permit for it!

You might want to educate that person about the penalties for filing a false report.

I was hoping that I did not make a bad decision by buying a handgun that is not a double action for the first shot.

I personally prefer a DAO trigger. That goes back to training and experience. It's what I learned on, it's what I'm programmed to be comfortable, so it's what I carry. I also have SA guns and like them a lot. About the only style I dislike is a DA/SA trigger because I can never get used to the different trigger pulls so my personal preference is all one or all the other.

There is nothing wrong with your decision and your decision to carry with a round in the chamber. No round in the chamber and you are basically carrying an unloaded gun which may be of no use in a split-second situation like THIS ONE (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=254200).

xd9fan
April 4, 2007, 09:18 PM
.......mines bigger than yours......

Euclidean
April 6, 2007, 10:28 AM
Gentlemen/Ladies:

It is entirely possible to cock an XD without chambering a round. Simply cock the pistol with no magazine inserted and voila. While the possibility of a loaded chamber but an uncocked gun may be nil, having the XD cocked but not loaded is common. You have to put it in this condition to field strip it.

Now I am not saying that this feature is good bad or indifferent, nor should you rely on it, but the purpose of those external indicators is to show the user, clearly, what the status of the firearm is. If they weren't capable of showing the loaded or cocked status independent of the other, those devices wouldn't be doing their job. That's all these things do.

You must remember that this was designed to be a military service pistol. While the external indicators may seem superfluous to us, people operating under stress and fatigue might appreciate them more. While these features are certainly no replacement for competent gun handling, the ability to look at the pistol and instantly realize its status (namely that it's not loaded or cocked when you would like it to be) sure doesn't hurt anything.

They could take them both off of the XD and I wouldn't care one wit but they don't hurt a darn thing by being there.

I now own a Glock and the XD series. I honestly do not see why anyone should get so upset these guns are different or call either of them trash, because neither of them meet that descriptor even remotely.

For the record I carry the XD and the Glock pistols with a round in the chamber, cocked. There is absolutely no reason not to.

BFIII12
April 6, 2007, 08:29 PM
I have always been told that if a bad guy is within 21 ft., he can get to you before you can draw your weapon. They actually teach this at the Oklahoma C.L.E.E.T school for LEO's.

NO REASON TO NOT CARRY COCKED AND LOCKED!!!!!!!

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