[KillshotRB]

Emerson Combat Karambit, and the trusty Smith 642. Pics! Carried weakside using reverse grip, the Karambit may just be the perfect knife for weapon retention. Thoughts on what knife you carry that is legal in terms of blade length. Most cities/municipalities have the 3" or under, non-fixed blade requirement. This Karambit is well under the 3" limit, and is razor sharp. I feel that this design by Mr. Emerson is unchallenged by any other knife, for this purpose of weapon retention. For those unfamiliar with Emerson knives, go to www.emersonknives.com and check out the video sections for clips of these in motion. ;)

[DrLaw]

I thought you were talking about Pamela Anderson or Terri Hatcher or some other actress!

(sigh)

The Doc is depressed now. :(

[KillshotRB]

:rolleyes:

:D

[KillshotRB]

Carry a sub 3 inch blade when packin'? Don't be shy :o Go ahead and post some pics. The Emerson CQC-14 is also worth looking into for those who don't like the "ring" of the Emerson Karambits.

[4fingermick]

Bugger the knife, stick another snubnose in yer pocket on the weak hand side! :D

[MassMark]

Man, that's a mean looking set-up you got there KS. How is that knife on the one handed open?

[10-Ring]

Nice pair indeed! :cool:

[KillshotRB]

It opens as it comes out of the pocket - if you wish, and faster than a switchblade I might add. ( Offering the element of suprise ) Otherwise, you just use the round open cut with your thumb to open just like a thumb stud on any other knife. Go to www.emersonknives.com and check out the vids, they're amazing.

It's hard to tell from the pic I have posted, but the clip is on the backside of the Karambit to allow for reverse grip. (Left front pocket ) You have the option to carry the knife either way - by removing only 3 screws and placing on the other side.

[MK11]

Nice pics.

How's the lock on the karambit? I love the ergonomics of the Emersons but I've got a Mach-1 that I can get to jump the lock just by slapping the back of the blade.

[R33P3R]

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ImRc0FfsmeWzvM:http://www.kershaw-knives.net/images/Kershaw-Mini-Mojo-1800-350x350.gif
Kershaw Mini Mojito - Flip assisted pocket knife

[KillshotRB]

The lock on all of my Emerson's are superb. However, if you're concerned, there are versions of the Karambit that are framelock. This knife is always with me, and IMO the best design from Emerson for weapon retention.

[DawgFvr]

When not packing, I have a clip-it "dragon fly"...but usually remove it from my pocket when I carry my back-up 642 in that pocket. With my 10 + 1 .45 ACP auto on the belt...well, knives just get in the way of reloads...dochathink?;)

[KillshotRB]

:rolleyes: I disagree, I think you should carry your clip knife especially when you carry. You want the firearm to be a last resort option. If you go on the ground in an attack, I think you'd probably reach for your knife.. that is not there. IMO.

[ATW525]

I'm not sure why a firearm would be a last resort option compared to knife. Both are deadly force... if you're justified in sticking somebody with a blade, you're justified in filling them with lead.

I'm not questioning the logic of carrying both, only the idea that a knife is somehow less of a last resort than a gun.

[pezo]

I carry a kershaw assisted open pocket knife all the time regardless if I am carrying any of my .357's. If anything I have used the knife as a handy when you need it tool countless times. I also carry a LED type flashlight, its a tiny little stainless steel guy that shines like a spotlight. I reserve the firearms for self defense only. The knife is much handier as a tool.

[jt1]

This is my current 24/7 carry set-up. It might seem a bit much, but when the grappling starts all bets are off and all you have is what you have. Even with a mortal wound a BG can still go hand to hand before he drops and this only gets worse with multiple BG's. The SOG speaks for itself, The KA-BAR is a nasty little hideout that will cut through anything, is superfast to deploy from the belt and the fixed blade is one less thing to think about when your luck runs out. I wear it weak side on the horizontal with the handle down and can deploy with either hand. Having a BU gun is fine and I often do, but when you are injured or entangled or have gone to the ground you most likely will not be given the chance to go to a pocket or holster and an available blade might make the difference.

Now, thanks to KillshotRB I have to start saving my pennies for a karambit fixed blade. Thanks a lot, pal.

[doc2rn]

Spyderco detective special and a 642, my favorite pair.:D

[KillshotRB]

I think you'll agree that the Emerson Combat Karambit is the perfect back-up, once you get one - especially set-up and carried like I mention in the above posts. Congrats on your decision to get one, you'll love it.:cool:

Yes, good point JT1, the Emerson Combat Karambit is also offered in a fixed blade version as well, for those of you who live in states where you can carry one. I just like the folding version, as it's fun to deploy using the wave feature out of your pocket. You learn to be very efficient with it. (spinning aside)

[jt1]

KillshotRB - Eventually I will probably get a karambit fixed blade based on your recommendation, but for the time being I am very happy with the KA-BAR. It is very light and quite serviceable, I have no doubt it will get the job done and the price allows me to have several (OK, so I have five) in different configurations and locations so something is always close at hand. By the way the video at Emerson is quite impressive.

[KillshotRB]

Keep in mind that the videos are with a "folding" version (like I have) Combat Karambit. These are the best. Yes, they are expensive - the only down side, but after a few years you find yourself with many.. For those who have not seen them, here is the page with the Karambit videos from Emerson. Enjoy!

http://emersonknives.com/karambitvideodemos.htm

[DawgFvr]

Nasty looking things...those things w/cutting edges. If somebody pulled one out on me...why, I'd have to shoot them...quite a few times and with no heasitation; you know what they say about people bringing a knife to a gun fight.;) Nice thing about shooting somebody (carrying a knife) in self defense...it's legal. CCW does not cover knives...even in self defense you will find yourself going to jail with a knife. Thanks anyway...I'll carry my pistol and revolver.

[KillshotRB]

:rolleyes:

:confused:

Um, ok.

[ATW525]

Nasty looking things...those things w/cutting edges. If somebody pulled one out on me...why, I'd have to shoot them...quite a few times and with no heasitation; you know what they say about people bringing a knife to a gun fight. Nice thing about shooting somebody (carrying a knife) in self defense...it's legal. CCW does not cover knives...even in self defense you will find yourself going to jail with a knife. Thanks anyway...I'll carry my pistol and revolver.

I'm not sure what you're talking about... though knife laws vary by locality, a knife like the Karambit is not normally restricted and in most places requires no special permit to carry. This is true even in your listed state of Washington, which only regulates knives with fixed blades and ones with blades over 3.5" in length.

I'm not sure how self-defense with a knife would land somebody in jail. Self-defense is self-defense and as long as you don't use excessive force your actions should be justified. If you're justified in using a gun (deadly force), then you should justified in using a knife and vice versa.

[DawgFvr]

If I kill somebody in self defense using a revolver or pistol, I am covered by my CCW. A knife, sword, asp baton, etc., used to kill in self defense...is not covered by CCW and you will go to jail even if you are the "quote and quote" good guy.

[S.P.E.C.T.R.E.]

If I kill somebody in self defense using a revolver or pistol, I am covered by my CCW. A knife, sword, asp baton, etc., used to kill in self defense...is not covered by CCW and you will go to jail even if you are the "quote and quote" good guy.


Wow, that's insanely optimistic. If you kill anybody in self defense with any weapon. you might go to jail. What are you basing your statement on?

[mdao]

If I kill somebody in self defense using a revolver or pistol, I am covered by my CCW. A knife, sword, asp baton, etc., used to kill in self defense...is not covered by CCW and you will go to jail even if you are the "quote and quote" good guy.

There are no legal protections from your CCW license in a shooting that would not exist if you had used a knife instead. All the CCW license does is allow you to carry your gun without violating the appropriate legal statures. Along the same lines...

I disagree, I think you should carry your clip knife especially when you carry. You want the firearm to be a last resort option. If you go on the ground in an attack, I think you'd probably reach for your knife.. that is not there. IMO.

Using your knife in self defense is considered deadly force, and deadly force is deadly force, whether you use your gun or your knife. As the law sees it, there is no difference between pulling your knife and pulling your gun.

And it might just be me, but if I'm going to use deadly force, I'll pick the option that doesn't require that I close with my opponent.

You are correct that there are tactical situations where a knife would be preferable to a gun though.

[tube_ee]

If I kill somebody in self defense using a revolver or pistol, I am covered by my CCW. A knife, sword, asp baton, etc., used to kill in self defense...is not covered by CCW and you will go to jail even if you are the "quote and quote" good guy.

Not true. Your CCW gives you permission to carry the firearm, not to shoot it. The self-defense exception to your state's homicide statute shields you from criminal prosecution for homicide, if, in using deadly force, you meet whatever terms are required for that exception to apply in your case. That's true whether you used a legally-carried firearm... or a big rock.

This is a crucial distinction. Understanding it and all of it's applications will be critical to keeping you out of prison if you are ever required to use deadly force to protect your life.

Also note that, in many states, no permit is required to carry a concealed knife. Assuming that your knife, and the manner in which you carry it, conform to the laws in your state/city/wherever you are, you're just a covered, for the purposes of carrying it, as you are with your revolver and CCW permit.

The laws that govern your use of either weapon against a human being are entirely separate for the laws that govern having the weapon on your person. To be legally armed, regardless of the weapon, you have to follow one set of laws. To be legally justified in using deadly force, you must also follow the other ones. You may be able to legally defend yourself with an illegally-carried weapon, but you would then still be subject to prosecution for breaking the weapons law. At least in theory. In reality, it's unlikely to work in your favor. It may also be the case that using that illegal weapon to defend yourself would be homicide incident to the commission of another crime (carrying the weapon.) That would negate your self-defense exception, and subject you to additional penalties above and beyond the homicide itself.

This may sound like nitpicking. It isn't. It's the difference between freedom and life in prison. Carry only legal weapons, carry them only legally, and use them only when a) you have no other choice and b) it's legally justified for you to do so. If you don't cover all of the bases, you'll lose everything.

"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" is chest-thumping nonsense. Both will effectively end your life as you've known it. And by following the laws that apply wherever you are, you can avoid both.

Stay alive and stay out of prison, because the alternatives all suck.

--Shannon

[DawgFvr]

I stand corrected...and actually I did mean, although I stated it very poorly, that my CCWP does allow me to carry the concealed pistol/revolver legally. Of course I would have to use it in accordance with the State laws for self defense. I, personally, would not use a knife, numbchucks, sword, asp baton, rock...pen, etc., to do the same however...because you will go to jail and you will be subject to a jury (even if you are the good guy here) and you are at the mercy of a judicial system that could send you up the river. I would rather defend myself with a flashlight or some common device than use the knife seen above and have to face a liberal jury in the state of Washington. I will not set myself up for failure when I have so many socially accepted, legal weapons to defend myself with. Just my opinion.

[tube_ee]

Why would you think that these outcomes would be more likely assuming that you defended yourself with a legally-carried non-firearm weapon (or one that was ready to hand, like a rock) than if you used a legally-carried firearm?

I don't think that your basic assumption (at least as I read it) is correct here. Your self-defense actions are either legal in all aspects, including the weapon, or they are not. If they are, the choice of weapon won't hurt you much, and if they are not, your CCW permit won't help you at all.

Carrying (legally, of course) a knife in addition to your handgun increases your options. Not that a knife is any less deadly force than the gun, but there are situations where the knife might actually be the better option, and plenty of others where it might be the only one.

Options are good things.

--Shannon

[KillshotRB]

Spot on. :)

I'm sure you've all heard about the accident scenerio where a person couldn't get out of their car following an accident because their seatbelt was preventing them, and they had no means to cut the belt. (The car is either on fire and they're hurt, or the car is upside down)

I like options.. and carrying a knife (that is legal) in addition to a firearm is a great one.

[jt1]

tube_ee - Well said.

[deputy tom]

jt1,how did you mod the factory sheath on your TDI for horizonal carry?tom.

[jt1]

deputy tom - I removed the plastic Service belt loop plate and made a leather belt loop to go in it's place. I used a piece of thin leather I cut from an old storage case and punched holes for the four screws to match the original sheath. The first one I made was too tight and I could not get a belt through it. I made a second one and gave it a little more room and it works well. Still a little tight but I think that is good.

[deputy tom]

jt1,Great and thanks much.tom.:D

[KillshotRB]

Good pics. Another good way to carry a knife - however,I don't think there is a bad way, just so you have one on you. :cool:

[lensman]

4fingermick: Bugger the knife, stick another snubnose in yer pocket on the weak hand side!

My feelings exactly. Never did get the knife thing. But to each his own.

[03Shadowbob]

I got you all beat. :neener: Use these and you don't have to worry about someone getting close enough to you to have to stick him

[tube_ee]

Throwing stars are illegal in lots of places. They're also very difficult to throw accurately, require a lot of arm room to employ, and are basically useless if not thrown.

I would much prefer to have a couple of well-balanced throwing knives, of whatever length is legal to carry where you live. The practice requirements to throw them accurately and effectively are just as great as with throwing stars, but they're also useful as a hand weapon and as a tool, neither of which is true of throwing stars.

Lastly, I'd much rather take a throwing star to the chest than a 4" knife, whether thrown or hand-wielded. Actually, I'll pass either way, but you get the point. (hardee-har-har)

--Shannon

[deputy tom]

KillshotRB ,I really like the idea of the Kerambit in your pic.I don't understand how to operate them but might try one out in the future.To those detractors of the knife,I say what will you do in case of seat belt jams,packages needing to be opened,etc.? I find a knife more valuable than a second firearm.Another plus is they don't run out of bullets.YMMV.tom.:cool:

[jt1]

lensman - As previously stated it is just one more option. Better to have it and not need it...hope we never need to defend ourself or our family from a BG. But if we ever do I want to have every advantgage available.

[rockstar.esq]

The Gun Vs. Knife debate aside, I'm not entirely sure why the Karambit is superior. As I see it, the ring on the end helps to prevent dropping it but most of the videos just showed a lot of swinging around doing nothing that holding it statically wouldn't have otherwise achieved. Don't get me wrong, the Karambit wielding person does appear to be on the winning side of the argument but I'd wager that such a skilled person could work a WWII Military Ka Bar to equally great effect. Even a shorter "normal" folding knife would work about as well. Plus the hawkbill profile is pretty limited unless you're into laying linoleum!

[KillshotRB]

I think the reason this design is effective is its sheer intimidation factor.

Granted at night, you'd only see the wicked shiny blade edge, if at all. The fact that this design is faster than a switchblade (in regards to deployment, due to the wave feature, that :barf: Spyderco :barf: has implemented into some of its knives...) and that it complies with most sub 3 inch blade law requirements, and finally its awesome ergonomics that allows the user a firm grasp on the Karambit, put the Emerson Combat Karambit at the top of the stack for weapon retention. Understand that "weapon retention" in the previous sentence does not refer to the knife at all - it refers to your carry gun. Someone tries to grab your carry gun, a simple wrist grab of the attacker and a quick pull out of your weak side pocket, or the opposite side you carry your gun on, with your knife set-up for reverse grip, and all of sudden you have the advantage with the Emerson Karambit deployed and ready to go to work.

Yeah, the spinning is not something you'd want to be doing if the SHTF - totally agree there.

[KillshotRB]

:rolleyes:

And I'm not into spinning much either. But on Ernie's website, it's fun to watch..