[forrestd]

So I bought some Python grips off eBay last weekend and put them on last night. I noticed a lot of room between the bottom of the backstrap and where the cutout ends at the base of the grips. Is this normal, or is there something wrong with either the grips or the frame?

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m213/upsciLLion/Python%20wood%20grips/Picture003.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m213/upsciLLion/Python%20wood%20grips/Picture007.jpg

[Old Fuff]

It could be your frame, but I doubt it. It far more likely the stocks were over-inletted. Costom stocks from the better makers are usually a lot closer then this. Factory stocks can be less so. At one time factory stocks were individually fitted to a particular frame and numbered to it, but those days are long gone. Sloppy inletting insures the stocks will go on without needing any adjustment, and anything that reduces hand labor costs is "in." :banghead:

[Vern Humphrey]

That looks like "within standards." I have owned one Python and currently have a Colt M357 (same gun, less the cosmetics.)

[Ohen Cepel]

They should fit better. I haven't had much luck with Python grips either.

I think it's due to small frame variations over the years and that the frames were hand finished. Therefore, no 2 are really the same deminsions.

[Jim K]

I suspect that a high ticket gun like the Python might still have had hand fitted grips, but those look way out. If those are even Colt grips, it looks like they were taken off another gun, probably another model that did not have a grooved backstrap.

In the old days, as Fuff says, grips were put on a partly finished frame and the frame and grips polished down together. That is why the grips were numbered, to make sure they got together with the frame after the frame was blued. And why take-off grips never quite fit right on another gun.

Jim

[Monkeyleg]

I've owned two Pythons. The first one had been fired, and had a gap at the bottom of the backstrap similar to the one your photo shows.

The current one is unfired and as-NIB. It also has a gap at the bottom, but slightly smaller than the one your photo shows.

Both are 1980 vintage, which makes me wonder if QC wasn't starting to slide by then.

[Sniper X]

I thnik if you look at the website selling those on EBAY it says "aftermarket Python Grips" and sells them as a reproduction of the originals. I ordered some but somehow the guy and I had a problem with my payment getting lost and I both never got the grips, nor was the check cashed. Soooo, I guess snalmail lost it. I saw a set of them on another Python, and they fit exactly like yours. I have seen stock stocks that fit better, but not by much if they didn;t come with the gun. Those look like a set of the aftermarket ones to me, were they represented as a NOS or origianl set, made by Colt? I donlt think Colt actually made the original grips either to be honest.

[forrestd]

I'm 99% sure these aren't the cheap, fake grips. I used this thread (http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=5&f=28&t=40932) from ARFCOM as a guide to making sure they weren't. As for the fit, if this is not uncommon, I can live with it. I just want to make sure I'm not having the wool pulled over my eyes.

[dfariswheel]

Those do appear to be genuine Colt Third Type Target grips.

The loose fit is normal for the later grips, as quality did start to slide.

Quality on the Third Type slid in a number of ways.
Fit to the frame varied, with the grips typically over-sized like yours.

Second, the quality of walnut fell, with later grips having less and less figure or grain.

Third, the color changed gradually from the old Colt Red-Brown to lighter and lighter colors until the last ones were virtually light blond.

Fourth, patching material began to be used inside to correct bad fit, and even used to patch defects on the outside.
This patching material is a light tan color.

Fifth, the fit between the trigger guard and the grip began to widen, until the later grips simply changed to an angled cut that left a large gap between the trigger guard and the grip.

[Old Fuff]

I think that the stocks are genuine, and later production. All and all this isn't saying much. Colt did buy them from an outside vendor, who was probably encouraged to reduce the cost - and they did so. :uhoh:

[jetman]

I looked at both of my Pythons and they are both much better fit that those. One is a '67 vintage and the other is a '78.

[Standing Wolf]

I believe those aren't Colt stocks. I normally defer to dfariswheel's judgement in all matters Colt, but they just don't look like the real thing to my eye.

[Monkeyleg]

I have a set of Colt custom shop rosewood grips that have never been installed. My friend has had them since he bought them in the late 1970's, and he just put them away until I bought them from him two or three years ago.

If anything, the bottom of the backstrap channels on them would need to be shaved a bit.

So, either QC went south, or some of us have grips from other guns.

[forrestd]

So would you guys be inclined to keep these, or to send them back and try a different pair?

[Monkeyleg]

forrestd, defariswheel and Old Fuff are the revolver experts on THR.

All that I can say is that, in 2003, I bought a Python that my gunsmith (and receiving FFL) said was unfired, that said Python came with the original box and papers, and didn't have a scratch on it.

It's beautiful. But it also has a small gap between the bottom of the backstrap and the bottom of the grips.

I'd be really anxious to hear posts from other Python collectors, as I either bought a Python that fooled me and my gunsmith, or Colt just wasn't up to par in 1980 or so.

[Steve C]

My Python's grips. Looks like a pretty good gap in the close up but isn't that bad at a little more distance.
http://www.members.aol.com/scoll63101/public/pygrp2 http://www.members.aol.com/scoll63101/public/pygrp1

[dfariswheel]

As I said, during the 1980's especially, quality of the grips started to slide, with the major problem being fit.
However, there were occasional problems with even earlier Target grips.
I have a set of VERY early Second Type Target grips as used on the Trooper that are made of a hardwood with a walnut stain finish.
There is the same gap at the bottom rear as shown in the above pictures.

This is not something that happened over night, and there wasn't a year or serial number where grips before that were fine and ones after were bad.
It was a very gradual thing over many years, and NOT a steady progression.
In other words, you'd see individual guns with good grips, guns made during the same time frame with badly fitting grips, and guns made the next year good.

The reason the earlier grips fitted better and more consistently was because Colt took the time to insure the grips fit well.
In later days, grips were simply installed and shipped with little or no effort made to insure a good fit.

Your chances of buying another set of grips and getting a better fit are an absolute crap-shoot.

A better option is to simply re-fit the grips yourself, by opening up the frame pin hole in the lower grip, shifting the grips around until they fit better, then using some 5 minute epoxy in the holes to hold that fit.
(Use some wax on the frame and pin to prevent gluing the grips on.

For an even better fit, you can sand the edges to a tighter fit on the frame, then refinish.

By no means was this a Colt-ONLY thing. S&W's grips also dropped in quality of fit and quality of wood.

[forrestd]

Thanks for all your guys' input, and especially to dfariswheel for taking so much time to be thorough. For the time being I think I'll try to enjoy having a complete Python instead of being a nit-picky bastard. ;) I may take to sanding them to fit better, but that's a ways off. Anyway, here's the rest of the photos I took. Just thought I'd share them with you guys. :) Thanks again.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m213/upsciLLion/Python%20wood%20grips/Picture004.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m213/upsciLLion/Python%20wood%20grips/Picture006.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m213/upsciLLion/Python%20wood%20grips/Picture012.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m213/upsciLLion/Python%20wood%20grips/Picture014.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m213/upsciLLion/Python%20wood%20grips/Picture015.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m213/upsciLLion/Python%20wood%20grips/Picture019.jpg

[Confederate]

The grips look great. (So does the gun.) I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[jakk55]

I wish I could complain that my Colt Python grips didn't fit well...

[SaxonPig]

IME Colts are awful about swapping stocks. S&Ws are much better. The Colts were hand-fitted which is great as long as you have the original stocks on your gun but it makes swapping them a bear because they often don't fit another frame properly. Yours aren't nearly as bad as some others I have seen.

You bought a set of Python stocks off eBay? So, just exactly HOW rich are you? :neener:

[Black Knight]

I checked my Pythons and they are not quite that bad. You may want to get a new set of grips. I just got a set from www.grips4guns.com for $88 delivered. The grips are made by a company that made them for Colt for the Python Elite. These grips have been called 4th generation grips. One other suggestion for safety. When you photogragh the Python or any gun for that matter it might be better if it is unloaded or you use dummy rounds. Dummy rounds are just a case with no primer and no powder just a seated bullet. Either way enjoy the Python and pass it on to one of your kids at the right time. Make a family hierloom out of it (a family tradition).

[forrestd]

You bought a set of Python stocks off eBay? So, just exactly HOW rich are you?


$150 less rich than I was before. ;) Where else should I have been looking?

[dfariswheel]

"Where else should I have been looking?"

No where special.
VERY occasionally you'll find Colt Target grips at local gun shops, or at gun shows, but the word on value is out, and most turn up on eBay for big dollars.

If you think your Third Type grips were expensive, watch the prices on the fully checkered First Type Target grips.
They usually go for OVER $200.00.

[Shear_stress]

I never thought I'd be saying this, but even $150 isn't too bad for a pair of older Python stocks. My Python wears a newer set of "Levi's-Loose-Fitting" walnut stocks that were standard issue for the Python Elite before it too went extinct. Yup, there are gaps top and bottom. On the other hand, they were only $60 and change direct from Colt and have the little pony that geeks like me need for some reason.

By the way, nice looking gun you got there.

[Sniper X]

Those, at least one dealer I know of, are actually pretty darn close to the originals. Plus I have seen two sets on guns and they fit better than those original ones in the picture of the ones that started this thread. They have gold medallions, and look just like Colt originals pretty much and are 50 bucks. Soo, for a shooter, I think I'd put those on, andsave the originals for the safe queen, or future sale!

[Man with a Mission]

Just to make some of you folks feel better about the Colt's QC, here's a good ol' Python from 1962.
I bought it from a friend of mine about 20 years ago, while it was still new in the box. The gap in the grip is something I didn't like 'cause it made the gun wobble up and down when I shook it. It didn't bother me at all when I fired it, but, I added a metal spacer inside the bottom of the grip. It worked just fine. It keeps the grip from cracking when you keep it a tight fit.

[1911jerry]

I saw a set of python grips with the gold medallions, but they have the Colt 150 on them?

Any info on those? They look like gen 3. I will try to get a picture when I can.

Jerry

[dfariswheel]

The Colt 150 grip medallions were used during Colt's 150th anniversary year.

For a couple of years after that, the same medallions without the "150" were used before they went back to the standard Colt pony on the globe medallions.

[forrestd]

Just to make some of you folks feel better about the Colt's QC, here's a good ol' Python from 1962.
I bought it from a friend of mine about 20 years ago, while it was still new in the box. The gap in the grip is something I didn't like 'cause it made the gun wobble up and down when I shook it. It didn't bother me at all when I fired it, but, I added a metal spacer inside the bottom of the grip. It worked just fine. It keeps the grip from cracking when you keep it a tight fit.


That's a great idea. I'll give that a try! Thanks!

[RIDE]

Here's some pics of my 1959 Colt Python with the 1st Generation Grips... same gap as the OP.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/221/458270202_0c00032b92.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/223/458270618_e7a6fe8494.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/248/458286769_12bf8a8eef.jpg?v=0