Geriatric Gunnery?


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Ironbarr
January 7, 2003, 11:45 AM
I've recently been posting subjects re work-arounds for eye and hand problems and have had replies providing sage advice. Also, I was steered to and read some really important experiences of others (TFLers, mainly) regarding their efforts to maintain their shooting world while some body parts didn't work very well. There's a lot of arthritis, some Carpal, cataracts, new glasses, and a host of other UN-goodies out there.

I wonder if there might be an interest in a forum for such discussion - kind of "all in one place" rather than spread out across different forums as part of different thread subjects.

Think about it and give a Yea or Nay.

-Andy

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10-Ring
January 7, 2003, 12:19 PM
Seems like too specific a topic. It would just be two guys talking about their aches & pains. If that's the case, pick up a phone! :)

PATH
January 7, 2003, 01:05 PM
I think it's okay. Some of our shooters are up there in years so why not. Other shooters may have conditions that affect their shooting. I see np problem with something like this.

bogie
January 7, 2003, 01:07 PM
Actually, a forum dedicated to disabled/older/whatever the (*&)(^ politically correct term for folks who are sorta crippled up would maybe be interesting...

Topgun
January 7, 2003, 01:08 PM
for a walker?

sm
January 7, 2003, 01:16 PM
I figure this gets placed where needed and found using search function. If not someone always seems able to find link here or TFL.

Strategies
Gen. Handgun
semi's, or wheels.
so far has worked
be it a cane, or choice of firearm, grips...etc

armabill
January 7, 2003, 01:21 PM
How about: "Alternative Shooting Styles"

KMKeller
January 7, 2003, 01:27 PM
Too specific I believe.

DamnedDirtyApe
January 7, 2003, 01:30 PM
I'd spend far too much time there.

Leatherneck
January 7, 2003, 01:43 PM
Nah. It'd just be a buncha old guys bellyachin about where they hurt. In the general discussions, the youngsters can witness all the old-timers' gripes and --maybe--LEARN from them.:banghead:
TC
TFL Survivor

Blackhawk
January 7, 2003, 01:51 PM
As people get older, their conditions become unique and extremely varied from person to person.

Sadly enough, many of their conditions that affect shooting are by no means unique to the older set.

No.

dairycreek
January 7, 2003, 02:22 PM
I am one of those old guys who might find value in such a forum. If you think it would not be valuable to you then you probably shouldn't go there. If you get to be my age and can still shoot - you will be really fortunate. Remember! Getting old ain't for sissies! Good shooting:)

Ledbetter
January 7, 2003, 02:59 PM
Actually not a bad idea. Guns offer protection for many "disabled" persons. I'm sure they would welcome a place to get info.

How about

"Shooting Ergonomics" or

"Tactical Physical Ailments" or

"Common Shooting Ailments"

Preacherman
January 7, 2003, 03:58 PM
I've posted a link to this thread in the Staff forum, and we'll see what the other moderators and administrators have to say. Thanks for the input so far, guys. Anyone else who would like to comment, please do so in this thread, for moderators to weigh your opinions.

sm
January 7, 2003, 04:12 PM
I did not mean to imply any disrespect to any member of age, or with conditions that affect shooting. I'm 47, I can appreciate not being able to dosome things I did at an ealier age.

Hey I'm a big champion of respecting our best natural resource, our elder members of society. Disabled, recovering from injury, I'm respectful and empathize.

My thinking is a situation/question needs an answer, under the headings we now have,I can learn from everyone. Handguns and arthritis[see hndgns] Which revolver? [go there] Semi[[semi]. Shotguns and retina tear .

Case in point: I had double knee surgery in '93...almost 10 yrs ago...I may have been younger...I assure you I can relate to being 'disabled' or limited in activities. Emergency appendectomy--BTDT. Anaphalatic Shock-heck I just wanted to survive, muscle atrophy kicked in- I could not open a soda can,or use a can-opener. No aspirin for me-ever!!

Stealing a Title from a SWAT article a while ago-if a forum opens up I suggest, [I]Disabled-but not Defenseless

Blackhawk
January 7, 2003, 04:53 PM
Ironbarr,

I'd like to change my vote to yes.

An old timers forum on THR would be great because it adds to rather than detracts from the rest of the forum.

Anybody searching for yadda-yadda would find whatever's in the threads in other forums plus there would be a specific place to post appropriate new threads.

Preacherman's post made me realize that -- not by anything he said in particular, but just that it would be on THR, which, I presume is what you intended all along.

Sorry I screwed up your poll....

Ironbarr
January 7, 2003, 05:40 PM
I appreciate your re-think. No sweat - you haven't screwed up the poll... I haven't voted........... yet. :D

I've been searching TFL for some references that might lead some to understand the intent. And, yes BH, it wasn't consolidated on TFL, and I thought it useful to do that here. As time goes on, there'll be more folks UN-enjoying their habits and maybe there'll be a source for both help and inspiration in one spot.

I haven't put a group of links together from TFL; much of what the forum might see is buried in posts of other subject matter. Maybe some interested folks here could check out a few search keywords and link them in. Afterwards, if it becomes a forum this thread could become edited by those who edit in order to preserve the info - not necessarily the banter.

My thread title was meant to attract attention - not to name a possible forum. Maybe I should have put "geriatrics" in quotes, huh?

And I shy away from "disabled" and words that tend to diminish folks. But, I see a forum open to solving some physical event by providing OPE - Other Peoples' Experiences, and encouragement re getting past a gun-related hinderence - as does this one thread re a lost trigger-finger tip due to a power saw: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141404&highlight=eye .

Any way - let's see where it goes.

BTW: I changed my mouse to left handed, and am practicing the left side strong as per my brethrens' advice in my http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=505

Slow - but a start.

-Andy

Monkeyleg
January 7, 2003, 06:41 PM
It's an interesting idea, and a timely one for me. I did something to my back that's giving me pain; after two hours standing at the range last Saturday it was so intense I thought I was going to vomit. The funny part is that I outshot every youngster on the range!

There's a thread in there somewhere. "Shooting through the pain?"

J Miller
January 7, 2003, 06:52 PM
I'll vote yes. I'm still a youngster, mentally anyway, but my body has just reached the half century mark. I've got problems that I deal with, and if something someone else says can help me, or something I have tried can help others why not.

A comment about the search feature. I find them of little use. Many times the subject doesn't have a normal name. I can't find it. I think a forum specificly for this would be good.

Just like any forum, if someone isn't interested, they don't have to enter.

Robby from Long Island
January 7, 2003, 11:48 PM
I would probably vote "yes" also even though I never think of myself as old, at least not yet.

But I was reminded a year ago when I tore my rotator cuff lifting weights that I can't do now what I could do when I was younger.

After the operation, the surgeon said I completely tore my supraspinatus tendon with retraction. Bottom line was, no more of my favorite shooting which are varmint rifles. I was really P.O.'d
but realized it was my own fault. So getting older isn't always getting wiser. Once in a while it might be fun to talk to some of the other "slighty older set" and see if they also do dopey things that prevent them from having fun.

Safe shooting.

JohnBT
January 8, 2003, 12:20 AM
I'll post this for my father since he doesn't do computers. He's smart enough, just stubborn.

While visiting my parents at Christmas, my father told me that he forgot to renew his carry permit. He'll be 81 this Saturday.

Of course, since he attends church with the clerk of the court, the secretary and the judge it shouldn't be a problem getting it renewed when he goes to town.

His memory really is good. He did remember to renew his NRA and gun club memberships.

John

happy old sailor
January 8, 2003, 01:13 AM
why not. if it don't work out, it can be scrapped.

might take another poll on who is the oldest. or, take a poll on all ages determining an average, mode, median, whatever.

a prize for the youngest: 50 BMG. naah, cost prohibitive
a prize for the oldest: box of Exlax, hehe

does any other gun related site have an old fogie forum. not to my knowledge. anyone know of one ? could be a first here.

hansolo
January 8, 2003, 01:29 AM
What could it hurt(besides my artha-rightus!). I am early-Fifties and hope the heck I will be able to participate in this fantastickly-fun sport when I have more hair in my ears than on top of my head. :rolleyes: P.S. The WWII and Korean Vets are passing-on all too quickly: I say, do anything we can to honor them and all "more experienced" folks.

Calamity Jane
January 8, 2003, 08:01 AM
I think it's a great idea. There are lots of folks who could use something like this.

The WWII and Korean Vets are passing-on all too quickly: I say, do anything we can to honor them and all "more experienced" folks.

I concur. They are a national treasure, pure and simple.

New_comer
January 8, 2003, 11:56 AM
Hmmmm... I think it's a good idea!

I don't think it would be overly "gripe"-oriented.

So I'd say 'Yea'! :D

dairycreek
January 8, 2003, 01:02 PM
are also found among those who are younger but have some sort of handicap. Vision problems, orthopedic problems, debilitation or handicapping injury, loss of strength, etc. are not necessarily associated with us "older Americans". These conditions also effect many younger people as well. So, for those who might have problems shooting such a forum could be of great utility - regardless of age. Good shooting:)

bigmtnman
January 8, 2003, 03:11 PM
dairyman,

Guess I'm an example of what you're saying. Not all that old at 58 but I was paralyzed from the armpits down four and a half years ago. Due to a rock climbing accident I crushed my spinal cord and wiped out #3 to #7 cervical vertebrae. After some amazing carpentry work by my surgeon and pure determination, I'm not stuck in a wheelchair. Took months of rehab to be able to walk again - I can, but not too terribly far and with a support cane. I used to love to target shoot with rifles, but having six inches of titanium in my neck limits head motion enough that I can't use the scope unless I set the stock on my shoulder!!

So.....I took up handguns in order to enjoy shooting. I still have partial paralysis in my left arm and leg, but the right side is fine.
My biggest problem is that I can't walk any great distance or stand for any length of time. When I go up in the hills shooting I take a folding lawn chair in my trunk. Now I can relax and shoot like a gentleman! I need to somehow rig a sunshade umbrella to my chair. Then I'd really be stylin'!!!

bigmtnman

bigmtnman
January 8, 2003, 03:15 PM
By the way, I voted yes. I'd like to see how others are overcoming their own physical barriers to still enjoy the shooting sports.

bigmtnman

sm
January 8, 2003, 03:23 PM
Ironbar, change my vote to yes--if you haven't already.
My own last post...well...convinced me:p

Ledbetter
January 8, 2003, 04:01 PM
I know an offhand .22 rifle shooter (Ansheutz) who knows when his stance is perfect because of the precise location of the pain in his back.

Ironbarr
January 8, 2003, 05:15 PM
I can't change the vote - but, since the staff is monitoring this thread, I'm sure they will note your change of mind.

We seem to be gathering some steam, but the overall replies vs visits is low so I don't know the effect of this re staff requirements.

The problem might be my Subject title. Like headlines in the media, we try to make the Subject line eye-catching and interesting enough to get a read. Guess I'm not a headline guru. I hope we can get more input.

Again, I really don't see this as a forum just for "old folks". As we read this thread through (so far), there is a mix of folks who are interested in learning the techniques of others to combat physical inadequacies so they can restart or continue their shooting sports. The more I read, the more I believe we'd have a valuable database for the now, and for the future. If you know of anyone who hasn't visited this thread, please ask them to drop by.

Blackhawk recently provided me with this link re carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS). It makes good reading.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144525

Many of us have quite an investment in our "hobby"; it'd be a shame to waste that if we could find a work-around. I recently Blue Booked a gun cabinet inventory of roughly $4000 for a widow friend. Husband, avid hunter and teacher of neighborhood young men had Altheimers. Not that this potential forum would have helped him, but...

Thanks for your support.

-Andy

sm
January 8, 2003, 06:17 PM
Thanks.
I, as I stated, re-read my post and a lightbulb clicked on.

Cick--in a dedicated forum one may also read of preventative, causes, symptoms and cures/relief. Instead of after the need, perhaps this may prevent, lessen a problem. Blackhawk's CTS link is a good example.

Age in itself requires us to change/modify. Disease and accidents also, mix all of this and we really have to change and modify.

I have always said one learns from mistakes--just a whole bunch less painful and expensive if learned from someone elses.

Guess that parallels sharing experience ,strength and hope.


Tip: never use a wife's big heavy purse as a weight after Knee surgery, to do your leg strength excercises to build up quadraceps. They don't have a sense of humor...red heads especially get angry.;)

Ironbarr
January 9, 2003, 11:26 PM
In the interest of giving this a chance for success (rather than just BTT-ing), here are some "vision" links:

Eye Dominance:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138845&highlight=vision

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119293

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125354&highlight=vision

Two Eyes Aiming: Blackhawk, remember this?
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124733&highlight=vision

Color Blind - with test links:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129756&highlight=vision

LAZIK Surgery:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119689&highlight=vision

There's a lot more... but there's a "wading through it" to do.

The name of the game though is to build in The High Road, a base of current and future events and experiences. Links to older information are great, but technologies - and people - march on.

-Andy

TexasVet
January 9, 2003, 11:43 PM
And I shy away from "disabled" and words that tend to diminish folks.
---------------------------------------------------------------

You're worried about "disabled"?? Heck, most of us just call ourselves "cripples" (personally, I'm a "60% Govt. certified cripple") and only hate it when someone liberal calls us "otherly abled".:D Don't go PC on us, now, or I'll hit you with my cane!

Frankly, though, I don't think a seperate forum is needed. After all, all I want to know is ..what the heck do you do with your cane when you're in a Weaver stance? Hooking it in a pocket is too bloody slow!

Monkeyleg
January 10, 2003, 12:05 AM
TexasVet, thanks for the no-confidence vote on PC language.

The other night on "60 Minutes" :o a Disabled Advocate objected to Ed Bradley's use of the term "physically challenged." He said the term implied that his folks somehow weren't trying hard enough.

Enough said?

Uncle Ethan
January 10, 2003, 01:33 AM
Instead, lets have a general forum for non-gun discussions where this subject, as well as a million others could be discussed by us [ mostly] conservative gun-owners. The idea of discussing disabilities might attract too many hungry attorneys. Sort of like "Forum Chasing."

telewinz
January 10, 2003, 07:57 AM
I would vote and express an opinion in your favor but I don't want to jinx you. My ideas have been shot down so often that I have started wearing a parachute before I log on.:D

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