CZ, Decock lever or no decock lever?


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GVMan
April 6, 2007, 11:16 AM
That is the question. From the CZ catalog it would appear that they offer more pistols with a safety for Cocked and Locked carry than they offer with the option for a manual decock lever. I think I would prefer to decock the pistol and carry it that way. Being a bit inexperienced I like the idea of a heavy initial trigger pull to help prevent accidental discharges, even though I think I have a pretty good habit of, as they say, keeping my booger hook off the bang switch. However, because I am a bit inexperienced, although I do not intend to stay that way, I was wondering what I am missing - are there other advantages or disadvantages to either variant?

Thanks

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armoredman
April 6, 2007, 11:25 AM
I have had/have both. The decocker compact models, the PCR and the PO1, are outstanding combat pistols.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/PCRPO1.jpg
The decocker drops the hammer to the half cock notch, where it is supposed to ride. The standard CZ-75 requires a careful decocking on a live roundto the half cock notch, or all the way down. With practice, it is safe enough, ( I did it with both an EAA Witness for 13+ years, and a CZ-75 Compact.), but without practice, it can be a bit dangerous. This is why the CZ also has the option of cocked and locked, one of the very few, and the first, DA/SA auto to offer that.
If a long, deliberate trigger pull is what you really want, then the CZ for you is the CZ-100.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/CZ-100.jpg

There is nothing to beat the long deliberate trigger pull on this DAO auto! Poly frame, 9mm or 40SW, adjustable rear sights, one handed slide racking device, and not too expensive.

I would simply go with the PCR, and use the decocker.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/PCR3.jpg

Unless a rail is what you want, then my reccomendation is the PO1, best dadgum compact semi-auto made today, IMHO...:cool:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/CZPO1.jpg

jsonnier
April 6, 2007, 11:38 AM
That PO-1 is beautiful . I just wish they made them in .357 Sig .........:)

GVMan
April 6, 2007, 11:39 AM
Thank you. I would like to clarify that I only want the long hard pull on the first round fired. I currently have a DAO Kahr and I am a bit dissatisfied with my ability to shoot fast follow up shots accurately.

Great pics. CZ offers so many variations that it is all a bit confusing. However, I am thankful for being given the choice. It seems many manufacturers don't offer any choices. (except CZ and of course HK)

From what I can figure from the CZ catalog if I want to go with the manual decock lever I have to choose between a CZ75 BD or the C75 SP-01 Tactical or the P01.

Are any of these more accurate than the others?

Jiml3
April 6, 2007, 11:58 AM
I have the CZ PCR model and love the decocking feature. Under stressful situations or just plain not giving full attention to what you are doing, a decocker is the lest dangerous method of getting a gun into a safe double action mode. The PCR is also an excellent choice for concealed carry since it is an alloy frame, it is not too heavy and is a great shooter.

DMK
April 6, 2007, 11:59 AM
I never liked decockers. I don't trust a mechanical aperatus to safely drop the hammer without firing. I decock my CZ40B by grabbing the hammer with thumb and forefinger and pulling it back while pressing the trigger, then slowly letting it down to rest. Keep the gun pointed in a safe direction (usually at a my book shelf since I've seen a stack of books stop bullets pretty effectively, testing various materials at a range).

The gun will operate in SA or DA regardless of whether you have the decocker or safety.


Under stressful situations or just plain not giving full attention to what you are doing, a decocker is the lest dangerous method of getting a gun into a safe double action mode.
If you are in a stressful situation, why decock it at all? Just leave it in SA and put the safety on. Then holster or low ready.

If you are not giving full attention to the weapon, you should not be handling it all all. A gimmick on the side does not protect you from negligence.

Juna
April 6, 2007, 12:03 PM
Personally, I prefer decocker models b/c I don't carry "cocked & locked". A manual safety is pretty easy to flip off (even accidentally), and I find a DA trigger pull to be plenty safety for me. I'd hate to forget to disarm the manual safety if my life depended on it. I like being able to have nothing keeping me (or my wife) from pulling the trigger and firing. Plus, I don't like decocking by holding the hammer and pulling the trigger. A firing pin blocking decocker is much safer and easier to decock, IMO. Also, it doesn't decock the hammer all the way down, it puts it into a half-cocked state.

The down side to a decocker model is that it's a lot more complex internally, which means if you want to strip it all the way down (not just field strip it), then it's quite a bit more complicated. IMO, manual safeties are best for SAO pistols, like 1911s, where you can't really carry hammer down b/c you'd have to cock the hammer before you fire the first round.

Your options for decocker models from CZ in 9mm are:
CZ 75 BD (full sized, all steel)
CZ 75 D PCR (compact, alloy frame) <----- You left this one out
CZ 75 P-01 (compact, alloy frame, accessory rail)
CZ 75 SP-01 (full sized, accessory rail)

They're all extremely accurate, so don't worry about that. What is your intended purpose for the gun? If it's range use & home defense, I'd opt for a full sized CZ 75 BD (cheaper, esp. if you find a lightly used one) or SP-01 (more expensive, but if you want lights/lasers then it's a must). If it's concealed carry, I'd opt for the CZ 75D PCR b/c it has the lighter alloy frame and b/c the P-01's rail makes it have a wider profile, and you're not going to CCW it with a laser or light on, anyway.

ARTiger
April 6, 2007, 12:33 PM
From what I can figure from the CZ catalog if I want to go with the manual decock lever I have to choose between a CZ75 BD or the C75 SP-01 Tactical or the P01.

Many have also settled on the decock version of CZ's and feel they're about the perfect gun. Carried half-cocked the gun is available instantly with a single long DA pull without having to first fiddle with a manual safety, but can also be fully cocked for a first shot SA with a crisp smooth short pull. In SA mode, the CZ's are capable of incredible accuracy even at surprisingly long ranges like 100+ yards. Personally, I can't think of a semi-auto handgun action I would prefer more . . . it's on par with that of a S&W DA revolver for functionality.

Also, I have both the SP01 and a 75BD POLICE. The basic difference is that one has a rail (SP01) and the other has a slimmer more tapered front end. Otherwise, function is identical however the BD gives up a few rounds in mag capacity, but still has 16+1 on tap. For me the 75BD POLICE works better and I just like it more. They both fill the same role and my BD has night sights where the SP01 does not. Now then if you like tacticool stuff hanging off your gun, you may like the SP01 better. (Heck, you can even get a bayonet for it! :what: )

Beware though of "CZ Virus" . . . Having the two CZ's I do, all that's made me do is realize that it's the CZ 75D Compact "PCR" that I want. It's the very same parrallel to the P01 that the BD is to the SP01. Rail or no rail, etc. The PCR has an alloy frame and that (non-railed) slimmer, tapered front end that helps break up the shape for carry purposes. The compacts are also every bit as sweet handling and accurate as the full-sized versions.

So, that's "CZ Virus" - I go from no CZ's to what will be 3 by next week in less than a year and will probably not be done by far with buying CZ's. They're just that good, it's almost like stealing when buying them for well <$500.

http://www.cz-usa.com/data/productimg/main037.png

GVMan
April 6, 2007, 12:39 PM
Well, that's a good question. Like anyone with a very small collection of firearms, one. I'd like to find that perfect all purpose pistol. After reading extensively on this site I realize that such a pistol does not exist and I am going to need many!

I think I would like a full size to help improve my accuracy in target shooting and so I don't have to reload the mag every 8 shots. I would also like a compact for CCW. I was thinking that it would be great to have both with the same platform for familiarity. I also like the idea of getting the 22 Kadet conversion. Primarily to teach my kids to shoot.

Unfortunately my local gun store with a range doesn't have CZ's. The other gun store in the next town has CZ's but does not have a range. I'd love to try one out first.

Thanks guys for the great information. This site has never let me down!!!

Golddog
April 6, 2007, 03:36 PM
The major benefits of CZs are the ergonomics and the single action trigger. Decock models cost you that wonderful trigger pull for the first shot - the shot that probably matters most in an emergency. I've tried lots of DA semi-autos and will never own another; the triggers impede accuracy and make the guns unsafe in life and death situations.

RNB65
April 6, 2007, 03:39 PM
I have the decocker model of the SP01 (the SP01 Tactical). I don't like manual safeties.

Mainspring
April 6, 2007, 06:00 PM
one handed slide racking device

Huh?

Mainspring
April 6, 2007, 06:18 PM
I see in the catalog that the CZ85 Combat advertises "...drop free magazines..." Is this to say mags don't drop free from other CZ pistols? I've played with a couple of CZ75s in the store, and I noted that the mags didn't drop free on those, but kinda figured that it was a "new gun" thing.

ARTiger
April 6, 2007, 06:37 PM
There's a mag brake that can easily be taken off and replaced with a dummy panel if you want drop free mags. Many CZ models do not have the mag break also.

rbernie
April 6, 2007, 09:08 PM
I have the decocker model of the SP01 (the SP01 Tactical). I don't like manual safeties.
The presence or absence of a decocker has nothing to do with how you carry the weapon (i.e. whether you use a safety or not).

I generally manually decock my weapon and carry it on the half-cock notch. However, I appreciate the fact that I have the OPTION of carrying it cocked-n-locked and would rather have that option that have a useless lever that does nothing that my own fingers can't do.

GVMan
April 6, 2007, 09:27 PM
Wow, this is great information so far. Could someone please explain manually decocking a CZ. I looked at the manual on the web site and I don't really think I have a firm grasp of the how's and why's and what items are crucial to do it without an unintentional discharge.

varoadking
April 6, 2007, 10:57 PM
Could someone please explain manually decocking a CZ.

Yup...it's a dumb idea.

modifiedbrowning
April 6, 2007, 11:14 PM
Mainspring, the one handed slide racking device is the thing right behind the ejection port. Basically it protrudes above the slide and lets you rack the slide with one hand by hooking it on a a belt, table or any other flat surface.

rbernie
April 7, 2007, 12:17 AM
Could someone please explain manually decocking a CZ. I looked at the manual on the web site and I don't really think I have a firm grasp of the how's and why's and what items are crucial to do it without an unintentional discharge.Practice this with an unloaded firearm:

Point the pistol in a relatively safe direction
Pinch the hammer between your weak hand's thumb and forefinger - I like to wedge the pad of my thumb in front of the hammer slightly to reduce the likelihood of it slipping thru my fingers
Pull the trigger, and feel the hammer spring press the hammer against your thumb
Release the trigger
Slowly ease the hammer down to the half cock notch

It's really not hard, and knowing how to decock a pistol is far from being a dumb idea. It's a pretty basic manipulation that anyone that carries a pistol should be capable of performing.

The key elements of decocking a pistol is being able to ensure that the hammer can't slip, and releasing the trigger the INSTANT that the sear trips the hammer.

Mainspring
April 7, 2007, 01:25 AM
Re: One hand slide racking...Ahhhhh. Tricky. Like the old rear sight on the boot heel trick. Got it.

ARtiger, or anyone...is the dummy panel that replaces the mag brake a factory thing, or some hillbilly rigged after-market contraption? How reliable is the modification?

CypherNinja
April 7, 2007, 01:37 AM
The mag brake is basically just a long flat slightly curved leaf spring that makes up the rear of the magwell. Think warped poker card.

One option is to simply remove it, flatten it, and reinstall it.

If you want factory, either buy a model that drops free, or find which spring from a drop free model will also fit yours. CZFORUM (http://p201.ezboard.com/bczechpistols82792) is great for this.

There are also hillbilly options as well. :D

Buck Nekkid
April 7, 2007, 04:16 AM
I have one CZ decocker, the CZ 40P pictured below. It's ok, but I think I really prefer the CZ advantage of cocked & locked, or DA first shot on a manually decocked pistol.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/ottonsure/CZ40PTwithBayonet.jpg

Medusa
April 7, 2007, 04:29 AM
Manual decocking is very easy, I prefer the safety switch, though I've almost never used it.

I pinch the hammer, pull the trigger and ease the hammer forward over the notch, then release the trigger and let the hammer drop to the half-cock notch.

or ease the hammer just over the half-cock notch, release the trigger, and ease the hammer forward, all the way (75B has the firing pin safety - pin is fixed unless the trigger is pulled). It's as safe as the operator makes it.

But it's a question of taste. As they say - who likes mother, who likes daughter.

ARTiger
April 7, 2007, 10:53 AM
ARtiger, or anyone...is the dummy panel that replaces the mag brake a factory thing, or some hillbilly rigged after-market contraption? How reliable is the modification?

Since they install them on non-braked guns, I would think they could be had from the factory. Just a piece of stamped steel with a slight curvature that exerts some friction on the magazine. Take it out and straighten and mags drop free.

The gun would probably work fine without it altogether, but it does provide a shield between the magwell and mainspring, so I like the thought of "something" there.

Baba Louie
April 7, 2007, 11:12 AM
Buck Nekkid,
How in the tarnation do you holster (or is it sheathe?) that particular roscoe? (Answer... very very carefully) :D

armoredman
April 7, 2007, 11:39 AM
Certainly not Mex carry!

Baba Louie
April 7, 2007, 12:32 PM
Kinda gives a whole new meaning to decock lever now doesn't it?
Oops!

Hope Art's Grandma doesn't dis-apprecitate the occasional odd double entendre... or at least allows it to flow gracefully over her head.

mavracer
April 7, 2007, 01:02 PM
don't mean to hijack, but on safety models, witness or cz, will safety engage with hammer down or on half cock?

P97
April 7, 2007, 01:17 PM
I prefer the decockers.

Landor
April 7, 2007, 01:34 PM
I started out thinking a decocker was the way to go. I soon realized that it was not for me. That first long pull just did not work for me. If a situation happened where I need to defend myself I would have no confidence in that first shot. I now purchase my guns accordingly.

Just my opinion.

Medusa
April 7, 2007, 05:38 PM
but on safety models, witness or cz, will safety engage with hammer down or on half cock?

Umm, on my CZ 75B you can put the safety on only when the hammer is full cocked, if not then you can't apply the safety. CZ factory notes that the safety is used for either cocked&locked carry, or when you take a pause in shooting.

Landor
April 7, 2007, 06:19 PM
My EAA witness will engage the safety when it is cocked or decocked. Either way it works..

GVMan
April 10, 2007, 01:20 PM
This is turning out to be a tough decision for me. There are so many good points for either side.

On one hand, with no decock lever I can still elect to manually decock the pistol. I could carry in any condition I might want. I have more flexibility to change my carry style as I gain experience. The disadvantage being that after a situation where I used the pistol for self defense my motor skills might not be at 100% and I might not manually decock as well as I do at the practice range. However, I should be able to get the safety back on. However, if I then need the pistol again because the situation turns out not to be under control - second attacker or first attacker recovering- would I remember to take the safety back off. Hmmm

On the other hand, with a decock lever I could decock safely in any situation, stressful or not. I also would never make the mistake of leaving the safety on. However, my first shot accuracy might be affected. I think I am leaning to this because at self defense ranges I think I could still hit center of mass even with a DA trigger pull. Hmmmm.

Landor
April 10, 2007, 01:35 PM
I know when I first started carrying I was on the decocker side of things. I had the same worries as you and here I am now on the total other side of where I started. I hated the double action first shot. No matter how hard I practiced that first shot was always low of my aim point. And to me, that first shot was the most important. The same way you thinks everybody was staring at you when you first started carrying is the same train of thought on the decocker situation. It will pass. I carry a Glock or an XD now. No manual safeties or long trigger pulls. Same pull every time.

Good luck with your dilemma.

-terry
April 10, 2007, 03:53 PM
I have a 75B stainless. You can decock two ways, the way other posters have mentioned, or from hammer down, by partially pulling the trigger till the hammer gets to half cock position, then releasing the trigger.

One thing to note is that the CZ has a very, very nice DA pull. It is not real heavy, but heavy enough for safety. From the decocked position, the DA pull is shorter. That is how I carry it...decocked with the short DA pull.

It's similar to my Walther P99c on half cock. A nice short DA pull. I can be quite accurate with this DA pull.

But if I want, I can still carry C&L. It's nice to have the different modes available.

-terry

robctwo
April 10, 2007, 04:35 PM
I have the decocker on the 75BD and P-01. Single action on the 97B and IPSC Standard. I'm good to go with double action first shot at most ranges. If I get a situation where the double action might be an issue with accuracy I just cock the thing with my thumb. If it's inside 25 yards I can hit just fine in double action first shot. We are required to shoot the first shot that way in speed steel with the DA pistols, so draw and fire is something to practice.

P. Plainsman
April 10, 2007, 08:49 PM
I own two CZ pistols, a 75B (traditional DA/SA w/ manual safety, "cocked and locked" capable) and a P-01 (decocker, first shot DA).

First of all: Holy cow, these are good pistols. I have about 2,600 rounds through the pair, without a single malfunction. Quite accurate, excellent ergonomics, good looking, durable, fairly priced. Great guns.

For concealed carry close to the body, I would lean to the decocker models - or use one of the traditional DA/SA models, but carry it with the safety off and the hammer lowered to half-cock for a DA first shot. The manual safety on the traditional CZ 9mm and .40 pistols is reliable but not quite as positive as I'd like. Handling could cause the safety to be wiped off and you might not hear a "click" or other clue. Unlike a 1911, you don't have a grip safety or other backup on the CZ when carrying it cocked and locked. Just the manual safety. (I actually prefer the .380 caliber CZ-83 in this respect: it does have a very crisp, positive manual safety, different mechanics from the safety on the 75-series.)

However, for home use, car use, or open carry with a hammer-strap holster (1911 style), the traditional CZs (DA/SA + safety) are preferred. All else being equal, I want that light single action trigger for the first shot.

Interestingly, although I almost never fired my CZ 75B double action during its first 1,500 rounds, it broke in to have a smooth double action trigger. So far it's better than the DA trigger on my P-01 (which has 700 rounds through it), even though the DA is mandatory for first shot on the P-01.

So I now often lower the 75B's hammer to half-cock (careful! but no problem with practice) and keep it in DA first shot mode.

Let me close by stressing again: these are great pistols.

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