Is shooting like this possible...

[Afy]

Someone on another non-gun forum is claiming to shoot 2 inch groups with a .223 at 500 yards regularly under any conditions..

I dont know enough about the caliber or gun. (Space group .223)

All I know is that my gut tells me not possible...

[Car Knocker]

The "under any conditions.." claim would certainly qualify this as BS.

[Afy]

I would happily disreagrd this. But even to do it consistently on a day with no wind and ideal RH for the altitude would take a really exceptional shooter... IMHO.

[yar]

It would be far fetched, 500 yards it extended range for the 223. I guess it would be possible depending on his ammo, skill, and equipment.

If he were shoot a super tricked out bench rest gun off a rest, or a rail gun with super consistent match ammo, he might be able to produce something where he more or less backed it up.

If he could truely do a 2" group regardless of conditition he should quit his day job. Become a professional NRA Highpower shooter and give all the big boys like David Tubbs a run for the money. :neener:

[cmidkiff]

2" @ 500 yards... sure, that's possible. How many rounds in the group? Anyone can get lucky with a 3 shot group... a 10 shot group? If I shot that group I'd have it laminated and framed :) The world record 5 shot group is just over an inch @ 600 yards. With a .223? Gets a little more questionable. It'd be a superb group for a real pro under ideal conditions, but I'd say it's possible. In _any_ conditions? I've seen some pretty bad conditions that would have to be included in 'any'! Regularly? I'd say that was the word that broke the story's back.

Did they guy happen to use the words 'all day long'? :) Let me guess, he's a retired special forces sniper, right?

[SASS#23149]

under any conditions??

ain't gonna happen.

[USSR]

Someone on another non-gun forum is claiming to shoot 2 inch groups with a .223 at 500 yards regularly under any conditions..

Sounds good when your finger is on the keyboard, but it's the "conditions" that bite ya in the @ss everytime.

Don

[Geno]

Is it possible? Seeing is believing. Of course on the day you ask him to show you, I am certain that he would develop some exculpatory factor…slept poorly, sore shoulder, eyes won't focus, etc.

[Blackfork]

I'm an NRA Highpower shooter, Distinguished, National Match team shooter for years, High Master classified across the course with a rack of Regional medals, CMP EIC gold/silver/bronze medals, Gov 20, et, et. Always potentially competitive with AR. 490X20 last month at Beaumont at the Regional weekend in the CMP/EIC match. That score should lead the CMP top 100 EIC rifle scores for the year so far...if they post it in time.

Third in the Beaumont Regional...because I made a mistake at 300R. My mistake. And two people were right there to take advantage of it.

Even shooters better than I, with match rifles, would never make that claim. Conditions vary and so does the shooter, to say nothing of the rifle and load.

Shooting at Panola in the morning. I expect to shoot well. I hope to shoot well. I'm prepared to shoot well, but I certainly can't guarantee a score in my classification...or a two-inch group at 500.

Even on good days, you can make a mistake...ONE mistake, and drop out of contention for winning a match...or shooting a two-inch group at 500 yards. One unseen wind change...or one you DO see..can blow you out of the nine ring, much less the 10 and X rings.

If you want to learn to be humble, just shoot competitive rifle, pistol or shotgun. You better be humble when you win, because you dang sure are certain to lose. Claiming to be immortal in all situations is just silliness. Some days you are going to shoot better than you deserve and other days you're going to be scratching and clawing to shoot shoot the class BELOW yours.

[Guns R Tools]

Could it be a typo?

Maybe he meant 50 (Fifty) yards, not 500 (Five Hundred).

[possum]

1 shot at 500yds 2" to easy i can do that upside down!:D

[Afy]

I could do a 0.1 MOA single shot group at 500 yards if I hit the target too...

[Walkalong]

shooters better than I, with match rifles, would never make that claim. Conditions vary and so does the shooter, to say nothing of the rifle and load.

Yep, drives folks who know how difficult it is nuts when people make these kind of claims...:banghead:

Me and my Bench gun would not make that claim and I have shot 5 shot groups in the "2's" at 200 yards.( that's .2XX)..:)
I have also shot some geat big ugly ones with the same rifle and the same load at the same distance...:banghead:

If you shoot a ga-zillion groups one day and one of them is sub 1/2 inch that does not make you or your rifle a sub 1/2 inch shooter.:)

[Hoser]

2 MOA, sure. Easy.

2 inches at 500 anytime, no friggin way.

Tell this pinhead to put his money where his mouth is. Then get ready for all the excuses why he cant do it right now...

[Blackfork]

One Minute of Angle is one inch per 100 yards. So: 1 MOA = One inch at 100 yards. 1 MOA = 2 inches at 200 yards.

1 MOA = 5 inches at 500 yards.

TWO inches at 500 yards is LESS than 1/2 MOA. Not many rifles shoot less than 1/2 inch groups at 100...and at 500 environmental conditions...and everything else, figure in.

Extremely humbled yesterday at Panola, in the snow on Easter Weekend. I shot OK standing 192X3, but sitting was strange, (193X10..ten X...but a flyer in the eight ring?) 300 no better at 195X4, and 600 the wheels came off: 176X1.

I was shooting my backup/loaner/infantry trophy rifle to keep the round count down on my main AR. At 600 I would shoot an eight on one side and then a nine out the other, or worse. In the X and ten ring and then a seven. All the shots looked good when they left. I'd be calling a 3 oclock ten and get an eight at 6:30. Very strange.

I had this happen a couple of years ago and it was the end of a barrel. I tried cleaning it with JB bore paste, kroil and Hoppes Benchrest, et. It came back some but never was right. At 600 you really can tell when they go. I think you lose a flake off one of the riflings or in some spot on the throat, or you get wear just beyond the throat. Cold be carbon build-up beyond the throat. They still shoot OK with light bullets but not with Sierra 80s at 600. Long range bullets usually are seated with a very short "jump" to the lands. (start of the rifling) They don't want to jump too far but they do need a couple thousanths to relieve pressure as they get started. There are some LR bullets that like being jammed into the lands, but they are rare and erode barrels like mad. What you do NOT want is one that touches and then one that doesn't. The round jammed into the lands will not shoot the same as one that jumps.

Going to clean it and look it over with bore scope at a friends house. Trying to learn something.

The previous time this happened I never got confidence back in that barrel, and it still acted twitchy until I replaced it. Then it was as good as gold. I find that Douglas 223 stainless barrels shoot really good at about 800 to 1800 rounds. All the 198s and 200s I have shot at 600 have come with barrels in that wear range.

[mpthole]

Blackfork: your first post (#9 above) is so well said.

I'm not really a highpower shooter - I shoot a lot more USPSA - but I do hang out with a lot of highpower shooters and have shot a couple F-class practice matches. My best score ever is a 200x11. But there have been days were I barely broke 185x0 using the same gun and loads! Some days you're "on" and some your not.

Whomever told Afy that 2" groups at 500 could be done "regularly, under any conditions" is certainly full of it.