[MachIVshooter]

I just received a certified letter from Century Arms. They're recalling all PSL-54C's due to a "manufacturing defect". As it turns out, the "defect" is a 3rd hole that has been welded where the safety sear used to be and BATF is screaming MG (the Cugir built PSL's are Demil stuff, not new civilian manufacture). While we all know that the PSL has always been a semi-auto, I can't believe CIA let this one slide. They should have known from past examples that this is a major no-no. So they are paying shipping costs and replacing the rifles, which would seem OK except that the replacements thus far are sub-par. This picture I found was one recieved by a member of another board:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/army_guy_dave/DSCN0894-1.jpg

rust spots, mismatched furniture and god knows what else. I am very skeptical as to whether I'll be happy with my new rifle.

This is the email I sent to CIA. You all tell me if you think I'm being too aggressive.

I recieved a letter yesterday regarding the recall on a PSL rifle I purchased, S/N:*-****-**. After some research, I found that the rifles you distributed were being considered machine guns by BATF. I suspect that CIA knew full well that the welded safety sear hole may cause a problem like this, but chose to ignore it and got PSL-54C rifles to market as soon as possible. While I dislike the ATF and their ridiculous policies (such as this one, in which a rifle that has never had a select fire capability is being called an MG), I am very disappointed that CIA would be in such a rush to make a buck that you would ship rifles with an obvious importation NO-NO.

Now here is MY problem; I searched for a long time for a PSL and finally hand-picked the one I have out of 12 other rifles. It is as perfect as a Cugir rifle can be-no scratches, no dings, no rust spots, no mismatched parts and the scope is perfectly zeroed. It also prints 2MOA or better with any ball ammo and the factory LP scope. I have come to find out that the replacement rifles are entirely new units, not rebuilds on ours. I have also seen one of the replacements and it was a POS that I would not give $200 for, much less the $800 I spent on my Unit. As you can imagine, I am very unhappy about this to begin with, but having seen one of the "replacements" and also knowing CIA's spotty reputation for QC, I am very uneasy with accepting the terms of this recall. The new unit WILL BE AT LEAST AS GOOD AS MY CURRENT RIFLE in every respect; Fit and finish, function, reliability and accuracy. I can assure you that if the replacement rifle I receive is unsatisfactory in ANY WAY, CIA will be getting it back again and again until it is right. If I get some POS Tenesee gun, I will consider it a slap in the face and demand a refund of the purchase price, including tax and the 3 extra magazines I have purchased.

The best CIA can hope for at this point is damage control. Best case scenario is that I will be very skeptical about purchasing another firearm imported by CIA. But if I am dissatisfied with my final replacement PSL, I will A) never purchase another CIA product, B) discourage everyone I can from buying CIA, and C) post the entire story with photographs on every internet message board with a section for firearms and/or customer service qualms.

I will await a resopnse via email or telephone before shipping.

I just hope CIA does this right. They're definitely trying to keep it on the DL, and I will not scream bloody murder so long as they do this right. But if I have to ship the rifle back multiple times or if I'm given the proverbial finger after trying to get them to handle a complaint about the new unit, I will make every effort to ensure that they regret hosing a customer.

Guess I'll just have to wait and see.

[Avenger29]

So what would happen if you did not send it back?

[MachIVshooter]

CIA's letter:

Dear valued customer,

Our records indicate that you purchsed one or more Romarm/Cugir, Model PSL-54C 7.62x54R caliber rifles from ************. Recently we became aware that the PSL-54C rifles were not properly manufactured as delivered by our supplier. As a result, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Exlosives (ATF) has determined that they are not suitable for domestic distribution. Accordingly, we are recalling the PSL-54C rifles shipped to date. ATF will be notified of customers who do not respond.

That last sentence was worded in such a way as to sound very threatening, hence my being quite unhappy with them and sending such an aggresive letter in response. Basically comes across as we screwed up, but if you don't comply with the unpleasant terms of our recall, we're gonna send ATF to your door.

[EricTheBarbarian]

how do they know if you have one if you bought it from a private party? ive been wanting to get one of those for a while and now it looks like i should probably stay away. let us know how it turns out

[PotatoJudge]

What about the poor sap that sold his at a gunshow recently? Nope, sorry, didn't get their name. What then?

Your best hope may be a full refund, maybe store credit equal to or in excess of what it cost you.

[TheDisturbed1]

total shame...

Are they supposed to "repair" it and send it back or send a new one?

I hope they dont do this regularly or again for that matter... I wanna get one in the future.

Those are some Suwweeeet rifles there...

[Doggieman]

I'd send 'em back something saying Return to Sender, Address Unknown, No such number, no such zone. Sounds like their problem not yours.

[RecoilRob]

I'd wager that you will NOT be happy with the 'replacement' rifle. No way....You hand picked through a whole pile of them to find one that satisfied you, but the rifle they send back to you will be no better than the average of the rifles that you refused.

Most probably, the 'replacement' rifles are being rushed and the Importer is NOT HAPPY spending the money to correct their mistake...so they are doing it as cheaply as possible.

If I were you, I'd surrender the rifle only with a complete and total refund of all monies spent. Then, if I decided to get another one, I'd go through the same process of hand picking one that I would want to own.

I looked at the PSL's a while back but only had a few to choose from and I passed (at $570 no less!!) because they looked like crap and I would not be happy with one unless it looked nice....like the one you bought. Go for the refund Grasshopper!

[iamkris]

I'd send 'em back something saying Return to Sender, Address Unknown, No such number, no such zone. Sounds like their problem not yours.

Sounds like a great way to get a 5 year all expenses paid trip along with a roomate named Bubba.

[Lucky]

why not strip all the parts you want to keep, and then send the rest back to be traded?

[skypirate7]

Your letter, while certainly appropriate given the circumstances, probably won't do you any good.

And they'll spit on the new rifle they send you. :barf:

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Yup, sold it at a gunshow. Nope, didn't get the name and it was a cash transaction, (so be sure to declare the $ as income).

My lawyer tells me that selling that particular gun privately was no more illegal than selling a floor lamp at a garage sale. Sorry, if you have any more questions, I want counsel. And by the way, how much money can your shop's budget stand to lose in a futile lawsuit agent Schmukatelli?

900F

[MatthewB]

MachIVShooter,
That's the same PSL you sold to your brother right? Who then turned around and sold it to somebody who you never heard of and don't know where they live. Also, your brother can't seem to recall where they lived either. . :evil:

[skypirate7]

I don't want to know. :uhoh:

[MachIVshooter]

Yup, sold it at a gunshow. Nope, didn't get the name and it was a cash transaction, (so be sure to declare the $ as income).

Even if I were willing to gamble on my word vs. ATF, this scenario wouldn't be possible. Right after Columbine, the lefties took advantage of a grevious time and brought forth legislation requiring NICS checks on all gunshow transactions. This did not affect private sales away from the shows, but after that none of the major newspapers would list private firearms in classifieds.

It's definitely not worth the risk anyway.

why not strip all the parts you want to keep, and then send the rest back to be traded?

That may well be what I do, depending on how the conversation goes when I call them tomorrow. I'd have to re-zero the optic, but at least I'd be able to keep my nice furniture.

This is the one I have now, and one of the nicest I've seen.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/100_0302.jpg

It's a lowsy situation, for sure.

[The Deer Hunter]

Umm, dont send back your origional rifle until your get the replacement maybe?

[50 Freak]

Wow the replacement looks pretty crappy. I wonder if people could just take off the furniture and just send back the barreled receiver and action.

Can you post the link to the other thread where the first picture came from? I'd like to read more about the return rifle and hopefully there are more pics.

[skypirate7]

I would definitely NOT send it back with the furniture.

Don't even give them this option. Remove the furniture. If they send you a new rifle without the furniture, it's no loss to you. If they send you a new rifle with furniture, then you've got extra. Consider it a bonus for your trouble.

I would also seriously consider removing the parts that don't have a receiver code. Trigger components are usually unmarked. The bolt and bolt carrier may be marked.

Century can't resell the rifle so it's no loss to them, right? Once again, if they send you a rifle without the trigger compenents then you'll drop in the parts you kept. If they send you a rifle with all of the parts, that's cool too.

I highly doubt Century will care if you send the rifle back without furniture or parts. Century must comply with the ATF and for all intents and purposes, you might have bought the rifle and sold all of the parts long ago and now you're just sending them back the receiver like they wanted. Regardless of the condition of the receiver or rifle as a whole, they are obligated to send you a new one.

[geekWithA.45]

Personally, I'd strip it down to the reciever, document it well with close up photographs, and tell them to replace the reciever alone.

If the one that comes back isn't roughly equivalent, I'd start making theft-by-conversion through diminished value noises.

[ozarkhillbilly]

I agree with The Deer Hunter do not send them back anything until they have first sent you the replacement or the money. In this case they are the purchaser not the seller. Let them either keep sending you the replacements until you find one you like or let them send you the money for it.

As a last option just turn the illegal part into the ATF and take them to small claims court in your county for selling you something that they could not legally sell you, you will win and could probably collect interest on your money.

[Logan5]

Pretty much. It's CAI that's on the hook for this, as far as I can tell. Putting on my magic wizard hat, I'd say there will be litigation, but it won't be protracted, and it will end with shipping affected PSL's to the ATF, getting a receipt, mailing it to Century, and getting a check for at least dealer cost, and probably full retail minus sales tax. And ATFE only cares about that reciever.
Disclaimer:
I'm not a magic wizard though, and for God's sake don't rely on anything I post on a gunboard at quarter to one on Easter.

[Eightball]

Personally, I'd strip it down to the reciever, document it well with close up photographs, and tell them to replace the reciever alone.Yep. The receiver is the part they want, so only send them that. Tell them you modded the hell out of the rest of the rifle and sold off the original parts so you don't have them. If you're lucky, they'll send you a completely new rifle with "spare parts"; if not, they'll send you a receiver (since that IS REQUIRED here), and you can re-mount all your fun "non-serialed" parts back in that are above-par.

At the very least, keep your furniture, use the "modded and sold" excuse. You'll either get free furniture, or no furniture, in which case you lose nothing.
As a last option just turn the illegal part into the ATF and take them to small claims court in your county for selling you something that they could not legally sell you, you will win and could probably collect interest on your money.That IS a possibility, just keep the rest of the rifle. Depends on what you stand to gain by possibly costing another gun manufacturer money in a lawsuit, and being one of "those people."

My vote goes with the "just send them the receiver" vote--as far as the ATF is concerned, that IS the firearm, and all they need to replace, correct?

[MilsurpShooter]

Personally, if it was me (very nice rifle by the way, I've been looking for one myself but haven't been happy with what I've seen) the piece that's having the problem is the reciever. If I had a nice rifle like that and one piece is in question, that one piece is all they would get

[jerkface11]

Strip it down and send them the receiver. What's the worst they can do to you? If they don't send you a replacement SUE THEM. If they send you a whole rifle sweet. If they send you a rusty receiver have it refinished and bill them. They screwed up there's no reason you shouldn't get what you paid for.

[CB900F]

MachIV;

I don't know where you are, and therefore what local laws you're subject to, but the scenario as stated works just fine here. The newspaper, even though it's Gannett rag, does list firearms as such in the classifieds, and you can sell an AK type privately at the gun show without any paper work being done.

900F

[Doggieman]

Sounds like a great way to get a 5 year all expenses paid trip along with a roomate named Bubba.


Highly, highly doubtful. How many people has the ATF put in prison? Fewer than the Poughkeepsie police department.

The ATF has the ability to annoy you, but rarely much more. The exceptions can be counted on one hand. In DC the Dept of the Treasury is taken about as seriously as the GAO.

I'd wait until the ATF starts contacting me before I do anything.

[rockstar.esq]

So my friend owns one and has received the evil letter. After calling CAI, he's determined that they will pay for shipping both ways. What I'd like to know is how rapid was the turnaround? Further, did the returned gun have a different serial number?

[buck00]

I got the same letter, even posted about it here but got very little interest by THR members. Everyone seemed to be missing the big picture- that suddenly the ATF can start making "recalls" to firearms they feel aren't "suitable for domestic distribution" (as the letter in front of me says).


When I called Century, the customer service person said to send back EVERYTHING (scope, mags, etc). That didn't sound right. I then followed up with the gun shop owner where I bought it (who also spoke to Century) and he told me DO NOT send back everything- all they need is the receiver. Turnaround is supposed to be two weeks.


* The rumor is if you don't send back your rifle during this "amnesty" period, the ATF can play hardball down the road and confiscate your rifle- then you'd be left with jack. :banghead:

[Doggieman]

Come on you guys, you're acting like children:

1) The ATF is not sending this letter. The seller is.
2) "The rumor is.." ??? Come on, are we adults here or kids? Rumors? Why doesn't somebody write to the ATF and ask what the hell is up? Or why don't you just tell the seller than you want to hear it straight from the ATF, and that a letter from the seller has no legal import.

You guys are making me sick. You'll be the first in line to hand in your weapons when the gov't finally comes for them.

Your motto should be "...from my warm, trembling fingers...." :barf:

[chemist308]

Personally, I'd strip it down to the reciever, document it well with close up photographs, and tell them to replace the reciever alone.

That sounds like a good idea. Technically the reciever is considered to be the firearm--everything else is just parts.

[Ian]

If you do decide to tell them you've resold the rifle, I would definitely move all your other guns to some place other than your house for the time being. The BATFE has been known to use this as an excuse for a search warrant (in a case involving a CZ-26 trunnion).

[HorseSoldier]

Even if I were willing to gamble on my word vs. ATF, this scenario wouldn't be possible. Right after Columbine, the lefties took advantage of a grevious time and brought forth legislation requiring NICS checks on all gunshow transactions. This did not affect private sales away from the shows, but after that none of the major newspapers would list private firearms in classifieds.



That's a Colorado state law, I take it?

[berettashotgun]

When I get my refund CASHIERS CHECK and a prepaid shipping box, I'll send it in. Thanks
Things like this tick me off, I embarrass my wife,mother-in-law,sister-in-law, and anyone else with me whenever we go to a store and they want to check my bags against my receipt.
I OWN these things and I will NOT allow any intrusion or hassle concerning my personal property.
Besides, CAI already has displayed stupidness; ( definition according to my Dad- repeating ignorance one or more times:banghead: ) and they must now regain my trust. I would never send in my property without a full cash deposit.

[skypirate7]

So did anyone actually go through with the "send only the receiver" idea?

[Xtro]

Century was very good about it. They issued a call tag. I only sent back the rifle.

I received my new gun through my FFL last Monday. It was even nicer than the one I sent back, and I thought that one was a beauty. They also included a mag with the new gun.

The source of this problem is that the original guns had the "third hole" for the auto sear punched when the flat was manufactured. It was welded-up when the gun was built, but once a MG...always a MG.

Century handled this in a professional manner, and I am more than happy with the outcome.

[Thin Black Line]

Come on you guys, you're acting like children:

1) The ATF is not sending this letter. The seller is.
2) "The rumor is.." ??? Come on, are we adults here or kids? Rumors? Why doesn't somebody write to the ATF and ask what the hell is up? Or why don't you just tell the seller than you want to hear it straight from the ATF, and that a letter from the seller has no legal import.

You guys are making me sick. You'll be the first in line to hand in your weapons when the gov't finally comes for them.

Your motto should be "...from my warm, trembling fingers...."

+1 on all points above.

Get a grip literally. Yes, let's see the ATF letter/ruling/threat of legal action.
Let's see it w/ your name cc'ed among a complete owners list.

Then, when they "come to get you" and you, the ATF, and the gun are all
in a courtroom, have your attorney (paid for by the NRA/GOA/JPFO/etc)
ask the ATF agent to demonstrate your rifle's MG capabilities out on
the range. No? They can't demonstrate that? Goodbye, case closed, chalk
one up for the Constitution/BoR/and when American's stood with their chins
held up for once in very long time.

[precisionshootist]

The source of this problem is that the original guns had the "third hole" for the auto sear punched when the flat was manufactured.

This is only a problem because the public has been led to believe that the BATFE has the authority to interpret the law. "Once a machine gun always a machine gun" is their opinion, which is worth exactly nothing. Only the courts can interpret the law. PSL-54c's are not machine guns nor can they be easily converted to a machine gun. In fact PSL stands for "Puşcă Semiautomată cu Lunetă" (semi-automatic rifle with scope).