[sonny]

O.K..........you have aprox. 1500 bucks to purchase a new 1911 carry gun ......whats your pick?
The only other details you need to know are that the shooter is a big guy with plenty of shooting experience.

[Soap]

Les Baer TRS.

[cslinger]

Les Baer, Ed Brown or Springfield TRP.

Chris

[1911Tuner]

Colt Series 80 Government Model...a Wilson Bulletproof extractor,
and 10 7-round Metalform magazines...(order direct and
get a price break on 10 or more.) Two Wolff 16-pound recoil springs. Three cases of PMC 45A hardball ammo, and take the
love of your life to Outback for steaks with the change.

Just my nickel's worth...
Tuner

[pale horse]

1500 eeh. Well I am partial to springfields. Are you brand loyal?

You can get a good many semi custom 1911s like the valtro and even a used wilson for that amount. If I were in your shoes I would pick up a Springfield loaded, milspec, or even the black stainless. They are all under a 1000 so you can take the rest and get the proper amount of ammo to break in the pistol, about 500.

That is what I would do. The great thing about 1911s is if you can shoot them well you can change the grip and just about anything else you want to on it to suit your needs.

[Russ]

Kimber

[JimC]

Put a couple of more bucks away and get a Wilson CQB. ;)

[Handy]

A basic Kimber (nice fitting slide/barrel/frame) and a bunch of name brand non-MIM parts. So, new hammer, sear, extractor, etc. Wolff springs. Send it to Clarks for guaranteed accuracy fitting if that doesn't cut it.

Or the Valtro, which seems like it was done right.

[PCRCCW]

1500$...one gun only comes to mind......an Ed Brown Kobra bobtail...............oooohhhh aaaahhhhh. I need to be careful, that gun does things to me that only a cheerleader used to :rolleyes:
Shoot well

[casual]

PCRCCW, if i knew where to get an Ed Brown Kobra for $1,500.00, i'd beat sonny to the punch

i love the Kobra, but for $1,500.00, if that's a top figure, go with a Les Baer

Handy sounds like he likes to tinker - if you just want the best gun for the money without a lot of extra legwork, get the Baer

Handy, i agree that the Valtro looks attractive, but i've heard too much about the long wait for a gun and inconsistency in finish as they sell more guns

in addition, i've always wondered about the resale value and reputation of Valtro guns when lesser guns not finished by Jardine are sold under the Valtro name in other countries (i assume this is the case - i don't know for a fact)

casual

[45auto]

For a carry gun, I think I'll second the Colt series 80 with an extended beavertail, safety, better sights and better mags. Should be well under a thousand. I'd have the frame modified for a "high grip", slightly extended mag release and a match bushing- if money is burning a hole in your pocket.
You may be at a $1000, so I'd spend the rest in ammo or reloading stuff, etc.

Good luck

[Handy]

Hey, I was just suggesting drop in stuff, nothing requiring fitting.

I'm surprised at some of the suggestions, here. I was under the impression that Les, Ed, Clark, etc. don't sell a complete gun for only $1500 - more like $1800 and up. If you're finding good prices, right on.

[Sean Smith]

If you want to buy off-the-shelf and forget about it, I'd say an STI Trojan. Get the optional fixed night sights instead of the standard adjustables and you are in business. Spend the $500 you have left over on ammo and extra mags.

$1,500 is plenty to have a Colt customized to your liking if that's what you want. People will say the Kimber starts with more "features," but you also have to throw more of its internals in the trash can if you don't like MIM slag, so really it is a wash.

[Feanaro]

Colt Series 70. If it works put the rest of the money away for later. If it doesn't get it fixed.

[JimC]

more like $1800 and up. If you're finding good prices, right on.

I just bought a new Wilson CQB, MSRP $1895.00 for $1650.00. That's not too far from the original $1500.00. ;)

I have a slightly used [625 rds.] Kimber Custon TLE II that I'll sell you for $700 + shipping to your FFL. That will save you nearly $800 of your $1500 that you have. :D TLE II FS (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26137)

[Rob96]

What 'Tuner said.:D

[Shmackey]

Colt Series 80 Government Model...a Wilson Bulletproof extractor,
and 10 7-round Metalform magazines...(order direct and
get a price break on 10 or more.) Two Wolff 16-pound recoil springs. Three cases of PMC 45A hardball ammo, and take the
love of your life to Outback for steaks with the change.

Just my nickel's worth...
Tuner

Correct, although I'm not so sure about Outback. And maybe swap one case of ammo for a trigger job and some spare parts.

[Kestrel]

Tuner, etc...

Why do you recommend a Series 80 Colt, instead of a Series 70?

Steve

[Handy]

Hey, let's talk apples and apples here. Tuner has made it clear that he prefers a little looser combat style gun - like a stock Colt or Springfield, whatever.

But the poster is looking at Les Baer and the like. Hand built guns that are crisply tight in all dimensions and cost because they get that way through hand fitting.

Why would someone looking at a fitted Les Baer settle for a stock Colt? Why not just suggest an Armscor 1911 and a used car?

The guy obviously wants a match fitted gun with all perfect parts. While there are some cheaper ways of getting there, a regular Colt or whatever isn't going to do it.

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Steve,

I like the 80 over the 70 mainly because of the MIM sears
that Colt is using lately. A cocked and locked pistol resting
next to my ol' skinny is a little on the iffy side anyway,
without the sear issue. Even though I know that the pistol
is meant for condition one carry, it still makes me just a little
nervous. It came with age.

Break the hammer hooks, and the half-cock notch or shelf
will stop the hammer. Break the sear, and all bets are off.
The thumb safety will impede the hammer fall, but probably not enough to prevent a discharge. They usually get wiped off
by the hammer as it heads for the firing pin.

With the Series 80, it will go click, because the trigger isn't pulled.
Another point in favor of the 80 is that in the event of a runaway
full-auto event after a botched trigger job, if the gun gets away from you, it will stop as soon as your finger leaves the trigger.
A 70 may not. I've seen it go both ways, and a 45 spinning in a circle, firing all the way to the ground is pretty exciting stuff, but
it does tend to frighten the RO's and spectators.

Add to that the fact that of all the Series 80 pistols that I've worked on, I've seen only one that had a parts failure....and
that was due to an aftermarket trigger installation by someone
who didn't understand that Colt makes different firing plunger
levers to select-fit a non-standard trigger without a timing problem causing wear and/or breakage in the system.

The series 80 system is proven, and it adds a little peace of mind
for a Condition One carry. For all others, I advise gunleather with a strap that goes between the hammer and frame.

Welp...That would be my nickel's worth...
Cheers!
Tuner

[sm]

To my gunsmith I'd say-

"Here is $1500 bucks and no more. Order a Caspian frame and slide, you know what I like and what fits me...build it and call me ASAP when your done".

Off the Rack, Used Kimber Series I , SA or Colt Mil -Spec, and again my gunsmith knows what I want. Simple, classic, good parts that make one reliable.As Vicker's would say "build 'em right -not tight".

[XavierBreath]

Les Baer ...........again.

[Sactown]

STI Trojan. Spend the extra money on ammo and mags.

[Smoke]

......an Ed Brown Kobra bobtail...............oooohhhh aaaahhhhh. I need to be careful, that gun does things to me that only a cheerleader used to


hmmmm......to me too. Thats almost sad.:(


But the $1500 limit will not cut it on the Ed Brown.

I suggest Kimber, and do as others have said, by ammo with the rest. Or to quote Dave over in Shotguns: BA/UU/R

[Gaiudo]

Ok, so let me get this right...

It seems like the two options that are being thrown around the most regard either a Kimber style gun, with some additional parts to replace the MIM parts and spring, hence a much tighter (though more pricey) option....

vs. a Colt, either model 80 or 70, with some additional parts to replace the MIM and spring, hence a much looser (though less expensive) option...

Isnt' the answer to this really based on what Sonny is satisfied with? Sounds like he's getting what he pays for. If he wants a looser combat weapon, without the add-ons, then go with the Colt. If, however, he is willing to shell out a couple hundred more, he can go with the Kimber no problem, and also get a good quality gun for the money. Regardless, he should replace some parts to insure quality.

Sonny, which are you looking for?

Gaiudo

[Sean Smith]

Let's look at the actual prices of these guns... note that most high-end guns sell for about the same as the list price, whereas factory guns are often a couple hundred cheaper than MSRP.

Wilson: the only one you can get under $1,500 now is the KZ-45, they don't sell the Millenium Protector anymore. All the others are $1,800+.

Ed Brown: all are over $1,500, even the Kobras.

Les Baer: the PII and some of their bullseye/hardball guns are just under $1,500.

Valtro: these are going for around $1,400 last I heard.

STI Trojan: That's just under $1,000.

Several Rock River Arms guns are under $1,500, but you will wait over a year to get one. The price you pay for not paying the price of a Baer... :D

The Colt Gunsite Pistol lists for $1,400 but runs more like $1,200 from what little I've heard. Too bad you can't get the Special Combat Government Tactical variant they used to make...

A pistolsmith full custom Caspian job ain't gonna happen for $1,500. $2,500-$3,500 is more realistic, unless you are severely cutting corners, at which point... what's the point? $1,500 total (base + parts and labor) can get you a severely cool customized Colt, Kimber or SA, though.

And y'all realize that you can have the slide-to-frame fit on your gun tightened for about $60, right? A Colt doesn't have to be loose if you don't want it to be... and heck, quite a few aren't that loose anyway. Maybe junk more internal parts in your Kimber, maybe have your Colt tightened up. Six of one, half dozen of the other...

[WingZero]

Flip a coin,
Les Baer, Wilson Combat, or a Custom Shop Kimber.

[sm]

Sean Smith.
I do not want a "custom" in the context of tricked out per se'
My Caspian-cutting it close, doable I think. I might have to offset some labor by mowing my gunsmith's yard for awhile.(j/k)..I get the old friend discount, on labor, cost + shipping on parts.

I want a simple work/carrygun. No safety (like a 80's or ILS as SA does ), no ambi's, no nightsights, form follows function, good internals--just the darn gun that JMB built.:D

Yes I can go with a CMC frame and slide and have a better gun built than some off the rack...been shooting some...I mean where do you think Wilson gets his frames...I knew you knew that. For what he charges (and I'm 3 hrs away in state) I can have a really nice gun that IS better all around, it'll work for one...my gunsmith...built a many of them.

Kimber-- saves a bit on the beavertail insallation since it comes with one, series I is basically a CMC frame and slide, so a used series I, gutted and reworked fits the ticket.

Gunsmith buddy is playing with other avenues...but I can talk him into it...

Sean you have a prime example that one does not need to spend the money some have and will to have a nice gun that works everytime. I have shot the same gun, out of the box, not even cleaned, straight off the truck and we put 900 rds through it 2 days with zero malfs. We did put a drop of lube before start of 2 day. ended up running 1500 rds before we stopped, and took it apart to clean the first time. we then did the smoothing of trigger, and bobbed hammer a bit. That is all that thas been done to that gun and its still running.

[sonny]

Oh-boy....you guys are gonna kill me!...#1 the gun was not for me......(I should have said so).....#2..... (this is the part that hurts)
...................My friend decided on a Glock!...............................

[1911Tuner]

Tight vs Right is about the same as Tight AND right vs
Tight and "iffy". You can have a good, tight slide to frame
fit as long as it doesn't bind and is reasonable. I just got
through with a pair that have just barely discernable
side-to-side play and no vertical play. When oil is in
the rails, that goes to no side play.

The difference is...about 25 hours worth of work. The most
important aspect of a Tight and Right slide to frame fit is
getting the frame rails square and parallel. That takes time
and patience. The rail ways inside the slide need to be as
close to that as they can be made as well, and then lapped
in with progressively finer compounds as a final fitting.
Full rail contact is what gives the full custom pistols that
buttered glass feel...

Tight barrel to slide fit is a little more critical in that there's
a finer line between just right and too tight. They have to
unlock and return to battery easily with a minimum of fore
and aft clearance..and just enough cam-up in the lower lug/
slidestop crosspin juncture.

Since no assembly-line pistol's frame rails is held to close
tolerances as to square and parallel, your best chance of
gettiing one without "too-tight" issues is one that has a
little slop. Armand Swenson proved that it's possible to have
a tightly-fitted pistol and a reliable pistol...He achieved this
with many tedious hours of hand-fitting...often getting
down to one stroke with a file or stone and re-checking.
It takes a toolmaker's skill...the patience of Job, and understanding how the pistol works. I gave up on this
exacting process when I gave up smithing about 13 years ago.
Eyesight and pain in the ol' lower back forced me to set-em
up a little looser. I get off the workbench and on the range
faster that way, and there is little practical difference in
either accuracy, reliability, or service life between the two.

One of my recent twins has gone to 2500 rounds without
a malfunction, and without being cleaned. The other is
still yet to be tested, but I expect that it will do just as well.

Cheers all,
Tuner

[rick newland]

Colt series 70 replica blue for winter and same pistol in stainless for summer.

[Sean Smith]

Sean you have a prime example that one does not need to spend the money some have and will to have a nice gun that works everytime.

"Gunsmith buddy" and "old friend discount" aren't viable courses of action for most people. :rolleyes: