To my friends on the 1911 Forum...


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DHart
April 8, 2007, 04:36 PM
To my friends on the 1911Forum... not long ago I had a little run in with a moderator in the Dan Wesson folder of the 1911Forum. Overall I think itís a very well run forum with a lot to offer - especially to those who are new to the 1911... albeit with just a few ďmini-MussoliniĒ moderators who thrill to what little power they can glean from threatening with their ban button.

Hereís what happened. I am a Dan Wesson Razorback owner (and had a lot of problems with my gun as many new DW owners have also experienced) and I had been critical of Dan Wessonís policy of making the customer pay for shipping to the factory for warranty problems (costs the user about $50-60 to send the gun for repairs to make it run as it should have run in the first place.) Iím a supporter of what DW is trying to do (build a well specíd 1911 and sell it for a moderate price!) However, I had commented a number of times (in different threads and response to different posters) about how the majors (Colt, S&W, Springfield, etc.) responsibly pay for shipping BOTH ways on warranty work but DW does not.

Over time, it seemed that nearly every time I checked into the Dan Wesson folder (which is a very quiet, slow moving folder anyway), there was a new Dan Wesson buyer who was having jams, poor reliability, premature lock backs, FTFís, etc. Many of these issues could easily be corrected if the factory tended to chamber specs, slide lock adjustments, and fitment issues. To their credit, I think DW service tries hard to rectify the problems, but it seemed to me a little more prevention on their part would be worth pounds of cure and bad press.

I felt the frustration of these new buyers who experienced the same reliability problems with their Dan Wessons (as I did myself with my DW Razorback) and commented on that fact a little too much for the liking of the two mods (Noklue and Severns), who seem to have an especially low tolerance for anything in their Dan Wesson folder which doesnít quite suit their agenda. (For example, I was promptly chastized the first time I visited that folder for asking questions I might have searched for... that was a nice warm welcome from Mr. Severns! :rolleyes: I've witnessed many other first timers in that folder being given the same blunt chastization. Searching can be an awesome tool, but it can also be exceptionally time consuming trying to wade through hundreds of posts trying to find that small kernel of information you need. That was the first of several times I butted heads with Severns. Severns often bluntly rebuffs recurring questions or topics in his Dan Wesson folder - must be one reason why there is so little activity there. Letís face it... the same issues will come up time and time again and new users deserve interactive attention from others who are willing to share... for the moderator to tell every one to simply do a search would turn an interactive forum into a simple, DEAD QUIET LIBRARY!) To his credit, he has offered much excellent advice as well and shared his knowledge there - which I and others have appreciated.

Anyway, recently I made a statement in response to a new poster who was having chambering problems. Here was the statement and the response from Mr. Noclue.

======================
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHart
No doubt... sure can't blame the gun makers for shooter's improperly spec'd reloads! But the short leade is an issue you'd think DW would get on top of in the first place... I have the impression it would save them so much in returns, re-works, and overall bad press! But perhaps they feel that making corrections after the fact is less costly to them than making sure things are right in the first place. How do you determine the cost of bad press? Who knows, maybe it's just not that big a deal to them... they'll sell all their production in any event. And they make the gun buyer pay for return shipping, which saves them about $40-$60 on each return for warranty problems. If they had to step up to the plate and pay for shipping like some of the majors do (Colt, S&W, Springfield), perhaps they'd do a little more to make sure the guns are reliable from the get go.

=============================
Noklue3
Admin
*
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ohio
Age: 56
Posts: 4,264

Dhart:
Ya know,
I'm tired of reading about this stuff from you. You have re-hashed it so many times, it's not funny.

Accept it or not.

DW CHARGES SHIPPING!

THE CHAMBERS ARE TIGHT AND THAT CAUSES SOME BREAKING IN PROBLEMS!

Like it, don't like it, that's the way it is. Continually bringing it up and continually complaining about it in a round about way or straight out is not going to change it.

Knock it off.

==================

I made an apology to Noklue which he promptly deleted and then banned me. :rolleyes:

Anyway... none of this is a big deal really, as my involvement with that forum had run itís course of many years anyway. And I enjoy spending time on quite a number of different gun, photography, and Harley Davidson forums.

The reason for my post here is because I thought some of my friends on the 1911Forum might wonder WHY Iím not posting there anymore. Now you know the reason.

I do still visit the 1911Forum from time to time to peruse some topics of interest, but wonít be sharing comments or photos there. This is the time of year when my photography business gets really busy and I tend not to spend much time on forums now anyway. Of course Iíll be in touch with my friends from the 1911Forum through many of the other wonderful gun forums we all enjoy: M1911Forum, HighRoad, FiringLine, GlockTalk, CombatCarry, MP Pistol Forum, LTW, WarriorTalk, Tactical Forums, S&WForum, etc. SO, Iíll see ya all there, my friends! Enjoy this gorgeous Spring! :)

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Black Majik
April 8, 2007, 04:53 PM
Don,

I've followed many of your posts and enjoy your pictures very much. You're always welcome here, and I'm sure many here value your opinion here at THR.

dpcdivr
April 8, 2007, 05:04 PM
Thank you for this insightful post, Don. For everyone else, it is important to remember that there are 2 sides to every story. To be sure, it is rare for myself to have ONE run-in with a member, let alone several. BTW, we have deleted all of your numerous member accounts on 1911forum (a violation of forum policy), including your attempts to re-join after being banned. Enjoy your stay on these other, fine forums. Regards,
Dave Severns

wally
April 8, 2007, 05:12 PM
I assume you are referring to www.1911forum.org, not www.1911forum.com

1911forum.org does have some very nice stuff for reference, but I never joined as the forum seems unwilling to tolerate complaints.

Its been the complaints (along with plenty of good) at 1911forum.com about Colts with cockeyed pins and off-center recoil spring plungers that had me look very carefully at what I was buying and led me eventually to a very nice stainless Colt Commander after rejecting a few that weren't given the attention to detail they should have had for the price, but without the initial forwaring from the complaints, I might not have been so careful in the initial inspections at some very busy gun shows.

--wally.

Black Majik
April 8, 2007, 05:13 PM
^ NoKlue3 is a moderator at 1911forum.com

Geno
April 8, 2007, 05:18 PM
Banned from "TheLowRoad" (a.k.a. 1911forum.communist?!) Welcome to the crowd. One of the moderators banned me for standing up to his public attacks of me. He actually publicly attacked my intelligence...serious. Recall, no public attacks? Then, he promptly went in a changed the text of his posts, and deleted mine. About a day, possibly two later, one of my friends (a neighbor) was at our house and asked to use our computer to check his account and to see for himself that I had been banned. The same moderator banned him, alleging it to be me, "...sneaking in the back door".

Be everyone publicly warned, many of the moderators at 1911forum.com are decent people. Some are not.

I, a graduate research professor, was banned, because I suggested that if people are going to assert that, "...Kimber is significantly better than Colt", that we need to conduct a valid statistical comparison/contrast of the Kimber V. Colt controversy. Significant is a statistics term, and to throw it our socially is invalid. I even detailed the statistical process to run, and further, offered to run the statistics if they sent me the figures. Never confuse intelligence with knowledge. Some intelligent people know little, and some unintelligent people know everything. We have met the latter.

God bless! By the way, do you remember back when this happened? That was when you pointed me to TheHighRoad? Thanks! I have remained here happily ever since. I love The High Road!

Doc2005

DHart
April 8, 2007, 05:24 PM
Dave Severns... (to others, he's one of the two moderators of the DW folder on the 1911Forum.com who banned me) it's good that you visited this thread. Thank you. In this neutral ground, at least we can both speak freely, as we have equal footing here, something I never had with you over there. You always held the "I'll ban you" threat over my head. It is surprising to me too how often we butted heads in the DW folder... I guess sometimes chemistry between two individuals just doesn't work very well, for whatever reason. Certainly I have no need to post in the 1911Forum, so I won't attempt to re-join. But since it's a public forum, I will visit there and peruse. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and trouble shooting advice and helping those having problems with their Dan Wessons... along with others and a return to the factory, you helped get my Razorback running decently... with some ammo types anyway. I appreciate that. But what an ordeal it was!

======

Wally... I am referring to the 1911Forum.com. I in no way intend to discredit the forum itself, which is a great place of sharing among some very good people.

Note to others.... even banned people can hang out at the 1911Forum... just delete your cookies and enjoy your visit!

Richard
April 8, 2007, 05:34 PM
Don, I have always attempted to behave as a gentleman on forums and I have received a number of warnings in regard to my posts. I have a running feud with Taurus over the trigger pull on my PT111 and my sharing of information on Taurus' lack of customer service has put me in the hot seat. I believe in telling the good, bad, and ugly and not glossing over things. As long as you are content with the content of your posts that is all that matters. Regards, Richard:D

Ala Dan
April 8, 2007, 05:46 PM
Thanks Don My Friend for bringing us up to date on your situation.
Maybe its time for The 1911 forum to change moderators~? :uhoh: ;)

DHart
April 8, 2007, 05:48 PM
Richard... I agree with you. I think most know me as one who tries to speak his mind as clearly and rationally as possible.... and with respect as well. I attempt to do that anyway. Like you, I call it as I see it, even though that may ruffle some people's feathers. Some folks can handle some feather ruffling without over-reacting and others just don't have the fortitude to handle it - then they over-react. It's mostly just a matter of how one mentally processes what one experiences. Nearly all human actions can be boiled down to a reaction based on some form of either love of something or fear of something. My presence and position was feared as a threat to the "designed sanctity" of the Dan Wesson folder, so I was banned. No doubt I was viewed as a thorn in the moderator's side. I don't take the banning as a big deal at all - it was sort of humorous to watch the reaction to my comments. But I do feel the need to share this experience with my friends.

jonnyc
April 8, 2007, 06:00 PM
As a member of this forum, as well as numerous others, I want to know why this thread is even taking up space here. If someone has a problem with another website, so be it. Please don't bring your outside problems here.
On second thought, I don't really want to know. I'm sorry I even opened this thread.

Dobe
April 8, 2007, 06:05 PM
I'm glad its here. There is a need to know how other forums are being run. I too am on the other forum as well as many others being mentioned.

I assume it will be removed soon, but I'm glad I caught it before it was moved.

Zak Smith
April 8, 2007, 06:08 PM
How other forums run themselves is off-topic for the Autoloaders forum here. Attributes of handguns are on-topic, but should be in a thread for that purpose.

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