Help identify this saber


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Don Gwinn
April 9, 2007, 01:27 AM
My dad bought a saber at the auction the other day for $60. Basically dad is the "knife expert" at the auction, which is a weekly small-town auction with a large set of regulars, of whom a few are the regular gun guys. They asked him what he thought, and he told them he thought it was a well-made replica.
None of them bid on it, so he asked me what I thought.

Now I'm asking you what you think. :) (Don't worry, I'm going to hedge my bets at SwordForum.)

I tend to agree with Dad, for these reasons:

1. The thing is well made, at least by replica standards, but it has no edge and shows no evidence that it ever had one.
2. It bears no maker's mark whatsoever.
3. The mark it does have suggests American artillery, but the sword didn't match any such U.S. sword I could find online.
The mark is pictured below, but not well. You can see a cannon, what looks like it might be a bore swab for the old black powder cannon, a blank field flag or standard on a pike, and in the center, there's a shield. The shield is the type commonly seen on U.S. seals--the top half of the shield is a field of stars, the bottom is vertical stripes that suggest the horizontal stripes on the flag. No words.

Now, here's what's odd. It seems very well made for a replica, and it does seem to show age. I think it may have been purely a display item, but may still be fairly old.

1. It seems to be a manufactured item, not custom.

2. The blade is carbon steel of spring temper; it will flex pretty far without taking a set.

3. The blade is ground with a consistent distal taper from the hilt to the tip. This, along with the heat treat, seems like a lot of extra work on a wall hanger.

4. The balance is good and it feels lively in the hand.

5. The hilt, backstrap and pommel are brass. The grip, which may or may not have lost some cord or wire wrappings from the grooves, looks like aged ivory. I'm not an expert; it could be bone.

6. The hilt is solid and the whole thing is held together by peening of the tang at the pommel. There are no nuts or threaded pieces.

So, any idea what this thing is and what it was for?

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CWL
April 9, 2007, 10:04 AM
Privately comissioned officer's sword, possibly militia because of the emblem on blade? By the length, I'd guess it was cavalry rather than infantry. Maybe something taken out every 4th of July for the parade?

Don Gwinn
April 9, 2007, 12:43 PM
Maybe. I can't stop thinking I've seen other examples of the same thing, but I may be imagining that. The guard resembles an old American pattern and the British 1796 light cavalry a little, so I may be confusing several others together.

hso
April 9, 2007, 02:08 PM
Looks like a Napoleonic era Prussian "Blucher" pattern. That would date it to post 1802.

The white grip material would indicate naval or dress purposes. The crossed cannons would indicate some sort of artilery association. Neither of which would be a surprise.

The stars and stripes shield would indicate US service association.

There should be some sort of maker's mark on near the guard.

The described quality of the blade make me think it may not be a reproduction.

I tend to agree that it's a private commision sword. It may be Spanish American War or slightly later. Germans carried these types of swords into WWI.

Don Gwinn
April 9, 2007, 03:37 PM
I think I need to show this to an expert in person. Over on SwordForum, HC Bright thought it dated from 1800-1820. It sounds like the consensus is that this is probably as old as it looks, and that'll please dad.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?p=904078&posted=1#post904078

Would the maker's mark possibly be on the brass guard? I hope nobody polished off the maker's mark to make it shiny over the mantel.

phantom_890
April 9, 2007, 04:01 PM
I don't know much about sabers but I do know that the Insignia on the blade sure looks alot like the U.S. Army insignia you see on their flag, but instead of a breastplate in the center it has the shield. And I think that the "bore swab" is actually a liberty cap on a pike as per the Army insignia.

phantom_890
April 9, 2007, 04:04 PM
Also the shield in the middle may represent the branch inisignia for aides to a general officer but thats purely a guess.

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/branches/Aides,%20General%20Officers.htm

Don Gwinn
April 9, 2007, 07:52 PM
You're the second one to suggest a liberty cap. . . . that makes sense.

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