Anyone watch The Sopranos? Evil hollow point bullets?


PDA






karz10
April 10, 2007, 05:08 AM
So, if you watch The Sopranos, and haven't yet watched the first episode of the new season, then don't read this thread until you do, in case I, or someone else, throws in a spoiler...

3

2

1

Ok, if you're still with me, you want to read this. If you've seen the first episode of the new season, WTH is up w/ the whole weapons charge thing?

I understand he tossed the gun, someone saw him, years later to get out of a charge himself he makes the mistake of pinning it on TS. But what was the big deal about the hollow point bullets, they said it like 5 times, as if it was some big deal and a major reason for pursuing prosecution. And then Janice is yelling at Bobby to get rid of any hollow points in his guns?

I mean, I know that area is weird about gun control, but I mean Tony's supposed to be in Jersey, and the location where he tossed the gun didn't exactly look like Manhattan, it looked like it was outside the city, I can't remember where Johnny Sac lived, as a matter of fact, I think he bought that house in Jersey too, even though he is w/ a crew out of NY, I don't think that house where they got busted was even in NY, so if I remember correctly, he should have been tossing the gun in NJ, running from Johnny Sac's house, right? If so, what the hell is going on w/ the 'hollow point' reference, aren't hollow points legal in NJ?

I'm open for any Sopranos gurus and or NJ/NY gun law experts to chime in. I know it's just TV, but it's usually one of the better shows on, although I am watching it now w/ a newly acquired knowledge of firearms beyond what I previously had, but I've always thought that hollow points were just good defense rounds, widely used by LEOs and citizens alike, and am unaware of them being any more illegal than anything else.

Anyone else see this?

Thanks,

Karz

If you enjoyed reading about "Anyone watch The Sopranos? Evil hollow point bullets?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Soybomb
April 10, 2007, 05:15 AM
Hollow points are generally a safer choice for a defensive round than fmj but as far as I know they are not legal for civilian use in NJ. Blame the anti gun groups propaganda for making the world less safe by spreading dissinformation.

karz10
April 10, 2007, 05:26 AM
Well, if that's the case, then at least I feel better about the accuracy of the show, but sad for the people in NJ who wish to protect themselves.

Another thing in that show that I'm not up on is the reference to the AR-10 that Bobby gives Tony. Now, I'm very sure that would be illegal to have in NJ, let alone give to somene else FTF like that. But as far as technical accuracy, I don't know enough about ARs to know if that was an AR-10 or not. I looked it up on wikepedia/google, and it didn't look like an original AR-10by definition, but maybe one of the remixes.

Karz

Mikhail
April 10, 2007, 11:30 AM
If I remember correctly, hollowpoints are legal to use in a home setting but not for a pistol that is carried concealed on the street! Like that makes a whole lotta sense.

Derek Zeanah
April 10, 2007, 11:31 AM
Don't watch the show, but doesn't it take place in New Jersey? And aren't hollowpoints illegal there for commoners?

johnster999
April 10, 2007, 11:52 AM
In the show, the DA makes a big deal about the bullet type found in the gun. Seemed plausible to me for a NJ DA.

Spoiler:

Later in the show Tony receives a full auto AR variant as a b-day gift from his bro-in-law. This on the weekend after being bailed out for the gun charge. Amusing.

MBane666
April 10, 2007, 11:54 AM
When we were doing the NSSF Media Seminars, our legal people told us to avoid NJ at all cost because of the draconian laws against hollow-points and the state's obsessive urge to enforce those laws...

Michael B

gunsmith
April 10, 2007, 12:00 PM
and he was instructed by his Chief not to load jhp when in NJ, only fmj...
untill hr218 he wouldn't even drive through NJ while armed.

SkiLune
April 10, 2007, 12:04 PM
Slightly off topic, but I was at my local gun dealer yesterday (he's retired LEO and a huge Sopranos fan), and he said TS had originally thrown away a Beretta when fleeing Johnny Sax house, but the kid picked up a Glock.

I didn't notice. Anyone else see that?

PinnedAndRecessed
April 10, 2007, 12:13 PM
I rented the first season's DVD. I watched the first couple episodes. Totally boring. Makes me glad I don't have cable. Or wherever it's shown.

grimjaw
April 10, 2007, 12:14 PM
So seeing that we're using wartime rules (no hollowpoint ammunition) in New Jersey, I'll starting treating it like a war zone and avoid it.

Gah. I had no idea it was *that* bad there.

jm

waterhouse
April 10, 2007, 12:36 PM
Slightly off topic, but I was at my local gun dealer yesterday (he's retired LEO and a huge Sopranos fan), and he said TS had originally thrown away a Beretta when fleeing Johnny Sax house, but the kid picked up a Glock.

I'm not positive, but I thought the kid picked up a Beretta.

ny32182
April 10, 2007, 12:39 PM
I have a buddy who is a NJSP officer, and he has confirmed to me that they enforce the "no hollowpoint" law in NJ.

As a side note, they carry the exact same load in their service pistols that I do in my CCW: 124gr +P Gold Dots.

K-Romulus
April 10, 2007, 12:46 PM
I read on the AR15 NJ hometown forum that hollowpoints were legal at home and at the range in NJ, but not out in public. This is an add-on charge(!) to having a gun in public.

SkiLune
April 10, 2007, 12:50 PM
I'm not positive, but I thought the kid picked up a Beretta

I'm gonna rewatch the two episodes in question. Just out of curiousity. I think it would be a funny piece of Soprano's trivia if in fact TS dropped a Glock (or Beretta), and the kid picked up a different gun.

The reason I brought it up is because the show's writers are supposedly sticklers for accuracy. For example, the New Jersey JHP law was unknown to me until my ex-LEO friend at the gunshop told me there was in fact such a statute in the Garden State. So I checked the statutes and sure enough, no JHP allowed in NJ. Bizarre law, but I used to live in NY, which has even more bizarre firearms laws, especially handgun laws.

220_Swift
April 10, 2007, 01:08 PM
The kid definitely picked up a Beretta.


I thought it was also odd that Bobbie called the AR-15 and AR-10. At least I'm pretty sure it was an AR-15.

Dorryn
April 10, 2007, 01:17 PM
NY is still more gun-friendly than NJ. I CCW all my firearms with JHP.

The Cavalry
April 10, 2007, 01:57 PM
Yup, here in The Landfill of Opportunity hollow points are a no-no for peasants.

SkiLune
April 10, 2007, 04:06 PM
The kid definitely picked up a Beretta

OK. Do you know if TS dropped a Beretta, or a Glock?

axeman_g
April 10, 2007, 04:20 PM
Hollowpoints legal in home and at range.... nowhere else. That makes sense because if you have your gun loaded anywhere else in NJ, your done. So, if you have jhp loaded up they toss on another charge of "cop killer bullets" to startle the masses some more and add a few years. It's supposed to be another way to keep down the gangster types from all cultures. IT'S SENSELESS.

It was a BS lawyer speak charge. Which is why it was so funny when the Fed Attorney called it a "popcorn fart" charge.... worthless! I thought the guy playing the Essex County Sheriff did a great job holding a straight face while replying to Tony's charge about using the entire force to arrect him, the sheriff's deputy replied "We take firearms charges with hollowpoints very serious."

question... dont police officers get sick of being used by political minded DAs? Example... Durham's Chief taking the heat for that idiot DA trying to trump up the Duke lacrosse team.


Tony dropped a Berreta Vertec and that is what was picked up.

GRIZ22
April 10, 2007, 04:54 PM
Since the LEOSA (HR218) was passed the Attorney General in NJ has said they will prosecute actice or retired LEOs carrying hollow points. The LEOSA negates all state laws with the exception of where you are prohibited to carry. The prohibition listed in NJ criminal law is educational institutions, including the grounds. There is also a law prohibiting carrying weapons in a casino.

I'm a retired LEO and although I feel confident the no carrying hollow point law is superceded by Federal law, I don't want to be the test case and carry JSPs, SWCs, or FMJ.

As was said hollow points are legal to possess but there is an add on charge for use of hollow points. It seems it's possible if you had a unintentional discharge with a hollow point and were found guilty of some type of misdemeanor criminal negilgence, you could wind up being charged with the felony of using hollow points in a crime.

DomMega
April 10, 2007, 05:10 PM
As with other ammunition and firearms, a sportsman would have to comply with the provisions of N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f and g when transporting hollow nose ammunition to a target range. The ammunition should be stored in a closed and fastened container or locked in the trunk of the motor vehicle in which it is being transported. The course of travel should be as direct as possible when going to and leaving from the target range with "only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances." N.J.S.A 2C:39-6g.

That doesn't surprise me, there's some states out there that just have really stupid laws that put its lawful citizens in danger. Be that as it may I wasn't surprised when the research was done that concluded the accuracy of the show and what Tony dropped and what the kid picked up later. I actually have a friend out here that does alot of firearm props for the studios and he also has an FFL. He's told me that many painstaking hours go into making these crime dramas as real as possible, and that includes the fake guns that are used. Well, technically, the guns aren't fake, they're real, just rechambered to fire blanks. Great care must still be taken when the actors are using these guns because injury or death can still occur. Lets not forget about Brandon Lee.

This is sure to be a good season, the last episodes.........everything is leading up to this.

Jubjub
April 10, 2007, 05:16 PM
So, are the Cor-bon Pow'rball bullets ok in Jersey? It's basically a hollow point filled with a plastic ball.

MikePGS
April 10, 2007, 05:35 PM
i just rewatched the episode... and even slowing it down its hard to tell exactly what kind of gun it is that he tosses... though by the outline in the snow its almost definitely a glock. And the kid definitely picks up a beretta. Their both black... but its almost impossible to tell exactly what he throws. Though i think i can say without giving away any spoilers that you see what appears to be another beretta (The same prop maybe?) near the end of the episode.

RNB65
April 10, 2007, 05:50 PM
No JHP's? Yet another reason to avoid living north of the ol' Mason-Dixon!

:)

Troutman
April 10, 2007, 06:50 PM
<< I'm open for any Sopranos gurus and or NJ/NY gun law experts to chime in.>>

Not a Sopranos guru, but, Iíll express myself as a Jersey boy.

(Expressing myself with hands)

Hey! Whats wwong wif using howwow points. Dei just wike any other slug.

<< they said it like 5 times, as if it was some big deal and a major reason for pursuing prosecution>>

Hey! Deis a wot of people awound Jowsey. Dei aww bound to hear it soonew ow latew. Besides itís a New Yowk/ New Jowsey thing.

Just like talkiní witída hands. After 5 times, someone is bound to decipher it.

ReadyontheRight
April 10, 2007, 10:55 PM
I'm pretty sure the gift to Tony is a DPMS/Panther Arms AR-10 in .308. Made right here in good old St. Cloud, Minnesota!

Lonestar
April 10, 2007, 11:23 PM
Yep, as everyone mention hollowpoints are illegal in NJ. Stupid law. Tony threw a beretta, and going to spoil something if you did not see it.....



....I think the brother in law also used a beretta too. It must be good to be a mobster, just dropping $600 guns everywhere.

karz10
April 11, 2007, 01:44 AM
....I think the brother in law also used a beretta too. It must be good to be a mobster, just dropping $600 guns everywhere.

Yeah, that scene didn't look to good for Bobbie, looks like he left some evidence behind (his shirt rip, if not more), dropped the gun, which I know you don't keep a crime weapon around long, but usually ditch it somewhere else, and I didn't even see him wipe it, and he made that DNA comment on the boat earlier in the show...

Hmmmm


Karz

mstirton
April 11, 2007, 04:07 AM
NJ is the birthplace (or reason) for EFMJ. Isn't that on their license plates?:D

dmftoy1
April 11, 2007, 08:29 AM
Is it just me or did that .308 appear to be fully automatic?

qajaq59
April 11, 2007, 08:46 AM
Watched about 10 minutes of that show and was bored to death. A gangster with a shrink? And a woman shrink at that? Come on.......... :banghead:

cloudedice
April 11, 2007, 10:58 AM
which I know you don't keep a crime weapon around long, but usually ditch it somewhere else
Watch The Godfther part 1. Micheal is told to drop the gun in the confusion right after the murder and leave.

Bobby drops the gun and leaves the country.


and I didn't even see him wipe it

If you look closely he was wearing a glove.

heysox
April 11, 2007, 11:15 AM
I will venture an educated guess on Beretta popularity with the OC guys in the show. Diversion of a shipment of military M9 pistols. They are shipped by truck and past episodes show no hesitancy about hijacking shipments of goods that interest the mob. One good score would give them 'cold' pistols for a lifetime, as well as lots to sell.

carlrodd
April 11, 2007, 11:32 AM
i actually thought the whole piece about the charge for possessing hollow-points was great. they painted the DA out to be a clown, and the speech he made about cop-killer bullets, and weapons that are manufactured specifically to maim and kill was some bit of nonsense right out of a big-city paper. i thought it was funny, and the humor seemed intentional; especially considering that tony was later given a clearly illegal automatic weapon......big statement about how silly gun laws don't hamper the activities of criminals determined to ignore the law.

axeman_g
April 12, 2007, 12:18 AM
carlrodd....

Great thought. The show really did try to portray those thoughts, IMHO.

gezzer
April 12, 2007, 01:47 AM
Watched about 10 minutes of that show and was bored to death. A gangster with a shrink? And a woman shrink at that? Come on..........

Ya, but her legs are HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

S&W620
April 12, 2007, 04:40 AM
Soprano's and Entorage on a Sunday night vs. Network reality shows.

Tough choice.

Seriously though, it's a great show. One of the best I have ever seen, that is for sure.

chris in va
April 12, 2007, 04:50 AM
Whoever thinks that show is boring really needs to understand it has run 5+ seasons and it is full of little nuances that you won't pick up just watching one or two episodes. It's basically a 'dark humor' type of show.

Lonestar
April 12, 2007, 05:54 PM
will venture an educated guess on Beretta popularity with the OC guys in the show. Diversion of a shipment of military M9 pistols. They are shipped by truck and past episodes show no hesitancy about hijacking shipments of goods that interest the mob. One good score would give them 'cold' pistols for a lifetime, as well as lots to sell.


You know what you might be right with that, now that I remember it "Johnnycakes" had a Berretta too:barf:

I figure if you were going to use a gun to shot someone and drop it, wouldn't you use something reliable and cheap? Kel Tec P11, A Revolver? :confused:

Desk Jockey
April 12, 2007, 06:07 PM
Watching the show Sunday night, hearing the gun charge that involved hollow-points, my first thought was "I'm going to be reading about this on THR!".

And here we are....

Duck and Cover
April 12, 2007, 09:15 PM
The gun that Tony dropped was a Beretta styled blank pistol. If you look closely the end of the barrel protruding from the slide is silver and the pistol just doesn't look quite right. Bobby also uses it to kill the Canuck at the end. The AR is definitely a DPMS Panther LR-308AP4 with a rail and an Aimpoint.

If you enjoyed reading about "Anyone watch The Sopranos? Evil hollow point bullets?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!