[Blakenzy]

Oh boy, don't know exactly in what forum to post this, but here it goes....

As of late I have noticed that lots of threads that generate a fair share of debate are being closed and locked because two or three members get into a flame war. As a consecuence the topic of debate is withdrawn and any other members who were interested in participating can no longer do so. So what do we do, open another thread with the same topic? Ignore the topic altogether? The problem is that the topic which has been closed is usually something that everyone wants to have a say in, and that's what an internet forum is all about, right? besides learning a few things along the way.

I feel that this practice of shuting down a thread just because a few members cannot behave is not fair to the rest of us. I would even dare say it's a bit disrespectful. Just a bit :) Even if more than a "few" (let's say alot) members are misbehaving I feel that it goes against the spirit of THR to just censor that topic of debate. It certainly is easier for the moderators to just shut down a thread instead of going after those individuals who cannot behave in a decent and mature fashion, but it seems that it's a shortcut that ultimately leads to an uncomfortable and frustrating environment. The reason I participate in THR and choose not to in other firearms related forums is because most members here are capable of debating in a very pleasant and decent way. Now at some time we have all been guilty of flaming to a greater or lesser degree, and that behaviour should not be excused, but there has to be a better way at stemming this ever present problem.

I know that it is hard, but is there any other way to keep "bad" members in check with out spoiling the fun for the rest of us? Locking down threads is akin to unfair gun control laws: A few people do wrong but every one gets the punishment. Perhaps a short temporary ban, prior warning for those who can't keep a civil attitude could work? Anyhow, kudos to the moderators who keep THR a decent place, and to the members that know better than letting their emotions get the best of them.

What do the rest of you think?

[Correia]

Let me try to address this.

I don't think you realize how much work goes on behind the scenes.

Perhaps a short temporary ban, prior warning for those who can't keep a civil attitude could work? Check and check. We're constantly warning and banning members. Most of those because of posts in Legal & Political.

I know that it is hard, but is there any other way to keep "bad" members in check with out spoiling the fun for the rest of us? The tough part isn't when it is bad members, that's easy. We ban them. The problem is heated threads and good members that get mad at each other. We don't like to ban people. It sucks.

We edit threads constantly. Sometimes threads get locked down because that seems like the right answer to the moderator at the time.

If a thread is shut down with the note that it is off topic, then don't start that thread again. But if a thread is shut down because it has drifted to its death, then start a new, refocused thread.

but it seems that it's a shortcut that ultimately leads to an uncomfortable and frustrating environment. The mods are volunteers, with lives outside of the internet. We're volunteers to try to keep this board on track with what Oleg wants. We ain't babysitters. So sometimes a thread is going to get locked, because it isn't worth the edit to go through and edit a bunch of posts.

The best thing that the membership of THR can do is be self policing, and also report posts to the mods when they start to go bad. If a thread is caught early enough, then the bad posts are edited. But if there are twenty bad posts, then it is probably gonna get locked.

[wingman]

A problem I have noticed that some members (in my opinion) do try to shutdown threads they dont agree with and they do this by shouting racism or other hot button words in order to achieve their wish of a closed thread.

[Henry Bowman]

Wingman, if that's their strategy, it is likely to be short lived. They will get banned post haste; a new discussion will go on without them.

[Blakenzy]

Well, I kinda figured that there are not enough man-hours to police every single post 24/7. As I said I appreciate the hard work the moderators do to keep this a decent place.

Still, would opening a new thread with the same topic as a thread that has been locked be a problem? Would it be immediately deleted uppon post?

There have been quite a few interesting topics that ended in an unconclusive fashion(not that any threads reach a conclusion anyway) in which I would have liked to share my thoughts on the subject and hear what others would have to say. Could I perhaps open a new discussion on the same topic?

As you noted Correia, most of these locked threads are in the Legal& Political subforum. That place is just a problem child ;)

[Correia]

Still, would opening a new thread with the same topic as a thread that has been locked be a problem? Would it be immediately deleted uppon post?

Read the closing post. If the thread wasn't locked because it was off topic, then reopen another one. But if it was off topic, then don't. And use your common sense when you open a new one. If the last one degenerated for a specific reason, try to cut that reason off.

Legal & Political is, and always will be our problem forum. Posters have wildly divergent opinions, and otherwise intelligent people can turn into frothing morons as soon as their pet issue is breached. The mods that run L&P are usually our most patient, wise, and loving. If I was in charge, I would burn that sucker to the ground. So be glad it ain't mine. :)

[XavierBreath]

I can only speak for myself here. I do not like to close threads. I like banning members even less.

I believe we should be able to discuss any topic rationally, and every member should act responsible. The fact is, some topics are hot button issues. Some topics are almost guaranteed to start problems. These problems can often lead to constructive members being in jeopardy. Everyone loses their cool once in a while. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in an issue that we fail to remember our common goals. We leave good sense behind. It happens. Closing a thread is often done as a preventitive measure to save constructive members.

Some threads are simply off topic, and if they can be moved to an appropriate subforum, they are. If there is not an appropriate subforum, then they are likely not on the topic of civil liberties and gun ownership.

Sometimes threads morph into something unexpected, either for good or for bad, on topic or off. It's tough to be everywhere at once. We like to take off the moderator hat and post a bit as members too.

As I said, I can speak for myself. Before I close a thread, I fire a shot over the bow. I will post in the thread and try to direct it back on topic. If my attempt fails then I go from there. Here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=268246) is one example from this AM. Here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=266100) is another recent one. How many times I might try to get the thread back on track is directly related to how important I feel it is. Some threads get back on track all by themselves. Others are bound to derail. Still others morph into new discoveries and new thinking processes as we all learn from each other.

I will sometimes give members a PM to see what their real attitude is. I do not care about their position on an issue. I do care about how they treat fellow members. Hostility PMed back at me after a civil PM is a red flag.

In the end, I would rather members get threads back on track independently. Moderators should not be necessary, but sometimes moderation is necessary. People should moderate themselves.

One thing is for certain though, I would rather close a thread than ban a member who is usually a productive and constructive member, but who today may just be caught up in the emotion of an argument. Productive discourse is dependent on good, productive members. We discuss issues here that we are passionate about, that are dear to our hearts. To expect everyone to be able to debate some of these issues dispassionately is a pipe-dream. Indeed, it would be rather boring. To allow lively debate in a civil manner is another thing altogether. As for myself, I like people who hold beliefs similar to myself. That makes for a good bowling team, but a boring conversation. I enjoy discussing issues with people who believe differently than myself. My most valued friends are those who are similar in some ways, but wildly different from me in others. I enjoy finding common ground and learning.

When it comes to closing threads, I would rather close the discourse and save the membership if I think the members are productive. Ideally, I would like to save the thread as well. Thus, the shot over the bow. The topics of threads go on forever. They reappear time and again. Once a member is banned though, it is forever. We try to use that ability judiciously.

[Mot45acp]

I am one of the members that has been chastized (sp?) a couple of times.
While I do not agree with all the mods calls, they do a decent job. This is a privatly run forum that I enjoy, so I comply.
You cant please everyone all the time, but overall I enjoy my time here.

I have started a thread that was completely deleted, not locked, but wiped from existance because some nut started talking about things I believe its even illegal to talk about.

To the Mods thanks for a good job and yes I changed my sig line:D

[justashooter]

like he said, this is a privately owned forum, so either agree with the owner and the moderators acting on his behalf, or post somewhere else.

[EricTheBarbarian]

i dont think ive been yelled at yet but maybe there could be some sort of rating system or something for members. wouldnt know how to do it though

[pax]

Eric ~

Sounds like a good idea on the surface, but take a look over at the packing.org forums to see how very bad that could become in practice. The forums there have been over-run by non-gun folks deliberately trying to erase the memberships of the knowledgeable ones.

Besides, I personally have hated popularity contests ever since junior high. Bet I'm not the only one! ;)

pax

[RealGun]

My experience doesn't match the premise here. It sounds good to say that "everyone should have there say" but what I observe is that by the time a thread has deteriorated to the point of being closed it is fair to say that all have indeed had there chance, both to be aware of the thread and to post to it. The topic is usually brain dead or completely redirected by that point.

[tydephan]

Perhaps I am in the minority on this issue, but I think sometimes threads last WAY longer than they should (latest example (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=265242)). But that is in no way a complaint. I know what it's like to moderate a site and I think the THR moderators are very fair and do a superb job.

I believe there has only been a single instance where I had a post deleted in a thread. I didn't know what had happened, so I sent a mod a PM asking about it. He informed me it had been deleted because it was off-topic. You know what? He was exactly right. It wasn't even remotely on-topic.

None of us are perfect. We will all make our mistakes. I don't take it personally when corrected and would advise others to take on the same mentality.

Also, the moderators of this site are great communicators. If you are hesitant to restart a new thread about a subject that was previously closed, why not just send them a PM to the attending PM and ask them for their thoughts regarding your intentions.

A moderated society is a polite society. :D

[Walkalong]

I cruised a lot of forums before joined THR. I joined because there was not a lot of pissing and moaning, cheap shots, etc, and lots of knowledgable folks willing to share their experience on The High Road. I, like anyone, can get carried away once in a while, but would expect a word of caution when I did, or would not respect those running the show. I appreciate all the Mods do to keep us up and running. AC :)

[Carl N. Brown]

Reading the complaints of people banned from the
Democratic Underground or SynByn'd from Aussieseek,
The High Road is a pretty open minded, fair forum.
You really have to be WAY out of line or completely
off-topic of the thread to get a post deleted or a
thread closed.

[hso]

One of the self-policing tools is the "report this post" hot button to the left under every posting memeber's name. http://thehighroad.org/images/buttons/report.gif If you see someone sabotaging a thread or getting out of line ask the member to please keep the debate within the confines of the thread and forum rules. If you think that a mod needs to delete the post or speak to the poster pound that button. A mod will show up and look into the report.

[skinnyguy]

I think the Mods do a pretty good job overall, they have great input to some of the threads and are pretty much looked at only when they have to do their jobs. Very few people notice them when things are going well, but let something go wrong and they are the bad cop on the beat.

I have a job much the same way, so I'm not totally blind to what they are going through, though I know none of the details of what they do.

So to the Mods, I say this, THANK YOU! Your jobs here are at times thankless, but you do them anyway and then have to answer for when you tick one person off. You keep the boards family friendly, fun, on-topic and valuable. Keep up the good work and know that you are appreciated!

Paul