P22 as CCW


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ffrobbyrob
April 10, 2007, 06:10 PM
I know I may be opening a can of worms, but do anyone use a p22 as a CCW?

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MICHAEL T
April 10, 2007, 06:41 PM
No a good Idea . move up to a least 32 or 380

usa1993
April 10, 2007, 06:44 PM
Yeah, not that great of an idea, it may ruin their day but your goal is to stop them quickly.

scurtis_34471
April 10, 2007, 07:22 PM
I own one. I like it a lot. I would never carry it. While its better than throwing rocks, I would not carry anything smaller than .380ACP or .38 Special.

XLMiguel
April 10, 2007, 07:41 PM
If that's all you've got, go for it - it's better than harsh language, and no one really wants to get shot. As will be amply noted, .22LR ain't a great fight stopper, but a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .45. Practice, a lot.

Joe the Redneck
April 10, 2007, 07:45 PM
Where as I agree, remember it's hits that count.

I have a Beretta 25 and an NAA .32. I have much better control with the .25. The NAA has the worst trigger I've ever seen on a $400 gun, and its way too "snappy" for good accuracy, at least in my hands.

So try a few 32 and 380. My fav is my PPK/s in 380. I carry it whenever I can. I'd hate to say perfect, but close enough for me.

Joe

Shipwreck
April 10, 2007, 09:58 PM
22 is too small to rely on in a situation where your attacker may have a gun too.

sig228
April 10, 2007, 10:25 PM
Is just gonna really piss 'em off.....

possum
April 10, 2007, 10:59 PM
of the two p22's that i have experience with, they leave alot to be desired in the reliability department, they are so-so accurate. not to mention they are .22's go 9mm at least. i do not see the .22 as a viable sd caliber.

CannonFodder
April 10, 2007, 11:21 PM
For stopping power?

Not so much.

For concealability - fairly decent

trueblue1776
April 10, 2007, 11:30 PM
I carry one, it isn't my everyday gun but its very thin and as far as small pistols go, it looks a lot like a service pistol. I agree that a .22 is not a powerful round but for me it is a 100% reliable gun. I have always thought if you can bow down a BG and wait for the cops it doesn't matter which caliber.

Let the small caliber haters begin....

Geronimo45
April 11, 2007, 12:05 AM
My main objection to .22 is in the cartridge. Diameter be damned, .22 LR ammunition seems to have a higher tendency to rottenness than any other ammunition I know of. Witness problems with feeding .22 LR pistols. Three or four brands work, others have a tendency to fail to feed, etc. Bought a used .22 autoloader, with some old ammo in the rifle case. Various makes and brands... Winchester, usually a solid ammo maker, was represented. A half-dozen or so 'Super X' rounds. Duds, all of 'em. So were a few of the other rounds. No evidence of water damage, and it wasn't light primer strikes. Of course, there's no telling how old those rounds were.

I understand that .22 rounds go bad faster than other ammo... and personal experience seems to bear that out. I'm thinking that .22LR doesn't have the standards you'll see in most centerfire cartridges - dirty powder, issues with the bullets themselves, etc. If you use it, make sure to load it up with new ammo once a month at least... just as a precaution.

Good thing about a .22 is that it allows you to do a lot of practice without breaking the bank. Bad things: reliability issues, mainly. I'd probably go with a revolver in .22 if I was looking at it for CC, but that's personal preference.

When people stop dying from shots from calibers under 9mm in power, I'll buy into the minimum caliber theories... just carry what you're good with. If you can put the rounds where you want 'em with your gun, and do it fast, go with that gun. If it can penetrate 7" or so of human innerds, it's got the capacity to wipe somebody out, IMO*. The FBI prefers greater penetration - 'cause they want to be able to deal with worst-case scenarios where they're shooting through boxes, doors, and arms to get to vital organs.

* Seven inches: based purely on the length of many 'combat knife' blades. F-S fighting knife, for example - about seven inches of blade (or 6 7/8ths), five of hilt. It wasn't made as a utility knife, but expressly for rubbing people out. Seven inches was considered enough length to do that, and I reckon that that's a good minimum standard for bullets, too. The more penetration, the better it'll do in worst-case scenarios, though - when an unobstructed shot ain't possible.

scurtis_34471
April 11, 2007, 12:09 AM
Mine is completely reliable with CCI Mini-Mags and Stingers. I have shot hundreds of them through the gun without a single failure. Everything else I've tried has been problematic.

A lot of people complain about accuracy and I'll admit that its not a tack hammer, but its plenty accurate enough to do the job. I can consistently shoot inside the 4" ring of a target at 15 yards and even the fliers are in the 8" ring. The gun points great and I can do that all day long, even with rapid fire.

The reason I won't carry it is the lack of stopping power. While I'm sure 10 rapidly-fired Stingers would probably do that job, I am not 100% confident it would drop an attacker before they could get to me.

ArchAngelCD
April 11, 2007, 12:43 AM
I'm really tire of reading in threads like this, "It will really piss them off" or "If they find out they are shot they will be really pissed" when talking about a .22 or .25 Auto.

I know the .22 is a poor SD round but I disagree you need to carry at least a 9mm to protect yourself. The 7.65mm Browning (.32 Auto) has been the round of choice for European LEO's for a very long time. The Walther PPK wouldn't still be on the market if the .32 and .380 were useless.

IMO too many people rely upon a very large caliber and an obscene number of rounds to feel they are protected when 7 rounds of .32 Auto will do a very good job, if you do your job. (translation - practice, shot placement, practice) Also IMO, if you need 17+1 rounds of 9mm w/2X mags of 17 rounds each to protect yourself, you are probably very lazy and not practicing enough and missing most of your shots. Spray and pray would require 52 rounds to protect yourself instead of a few well placed rounds. (I'm not talking about LEO's on the job where they have to confront multiple BG's and put themselves in harms way.)

Let the flames begin, I really don't care!! :rolleyes:

ffrobbyrob
April 11, 2007, 08:12 AM
I do not CCW with a p22. But I was thinking that it is concealable, fairly light, does not "look" like a .22 and little to no recoil.
I am thinking of getting either the G19, G23, XD9, or the M&P9mm for CCW.

trueblue1776
April 11, 2007, 08:33 AM
I just came across this clip this morning. This is a perfect example of why I carry a gun, I don't want to assassinate anybody but I don't want to be a bystander to crimes against my property.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2f6_1175588071


This guy earns massive karma credit, and a .22 would have worked just as well.

+1 on the CCI stingers for carry, that is the highest quality round that has enough power to reliably cycle a .22 auto.

CZ.22
April 11, 2007, 01:39 PM
.22 has killed a lot of people. I would not want to carry it but I would. The main reason I see for carrying a .22 is ammo cost-if you can't buy enough ammo to get good with our gun.
However, if I had to carry a .22, it'd be a Smith 317 3 inch.
.22 reliabilty issues are a concern.

shooter1
April 11, 2007, 04:24 PM
The only valid reason to carry a .22 for self defense, is if that's all you have. There are plenty of higher caliber pistols available that are as small or smaller, than the .22 pistols on the market.
str1

possum
April 11, 2007, 04:43 PM
The only valid reason to carry a .22 for self defense, is if that's all you have. There are plenty of higher caliber pistols available that are as small or smaller, than the .22 pistols on the market.
str1
yep, and my kahr is a .40 and it is pretty darn small and it ain't even the smallest model or the lightest model they make.

do what you want to but i wouldn't carry a .22

PointOneSeven
April 11, 2007, 04:53 PM
I did for about a year, loaded with mini-mags.


Then I saw how small something in .380 or .38 special could be. I haven't looked back.

MikePGS
April 11, 2007, 05:51 PM
I do not CCW with a p22. But I was thinking that it is concealable, fairly light, does not "look" like a .22 and little to no recoil.
I'm not sure exactly how they add up, but i believe walther and smith and wesson's P99 is pretty similar.http://www.waltheramerica.com/firearms/p99qa.cfm At least as far as appearances go, though in all honesty i'm not familiar with exact dimensions. All i'm saying is that if you like the particular gun, maybe you might want to upgrade to a 9mm. As many have already said shot placement is the most important thing, but there is some argument for a gun capable of generating more energy than a .22 (In spite of the volumes of people killed with this caliber). Another option you might want to persue if price is an issue is a used Makarov or CZ-82. You can get these for around 200-300 if you search around (Try websites like makarov.com or gunbroker.com or if your really interested message me and i'll direct you to some more). Either way just make sure whatever you end up with is a firearm that your comfortable with and one that you also practice a good deal with. 9mm ammunition while more expensive than .22 caliber by a good deal is generally the least expensive of centerfire pistol calibers, another good reason to get it: You can practice more.

GunNut
April 11, 2007, 07:25 PM
I was in a gun store earlier and some guy was looking at a P22 and asking about a ankle holster for it.:banghead: :banghead:


There are so many better guns out there for CCW and self defense, go with a bigger caliber and a better gun.

Steve

doubleg
April 11, 2007, 07:31 PM
It would be a good gun if you were the one with the element of suprise but not good for stoping a charging attacker. But hey I would feel better with a .22 pistol than I would with a pocket knife.

tinygnat219
April 12, 2007, 12:01 AM
Don't bother with it. It's a POS gun that's REAL finicky on ammo. I used to have one that never fired a full magazine reliably. Also think on this: Do you want to defend your life with something as utterly unreliable as this pistol firing a substandard rimfire round?

Yeah, I can see the whole argument regarding .22 doing the job. It will put someone down, eventually. It's not a guarantee to stop the fight right then, right now. Someone could still pummel you and then pass on to the hot and unholy 10 minutes later.

So, to sum up, don't trust the gun, it's junk. Get a bigger round, like 38 Special, or 9MM if you want reliable low recoil defensive rounds. Walther makes a nice P99 platform, and S&W has made .38 SPL revolvers for over a century.

nwilliams
April 12, 2007, 12:20 AM
The caliber wouldn't cause me to hesitate as quickly as the gun would.

I wouldn't carry a .22 for ccw to begin with, but I certainly wouldn't carry a P22 at all. I had one but not for long, I wasn't impressed. Personally I'd feel more comfortable carrying a Sig Mosquito over a P22.

AndyN
April 12, 2007, 12:41 AM
I'm sorry ffrobbyrob, to butt in your thread with a question of my own. I pass my HSC yesterday, I was thinking of getting CCW permit and my eyes was focus on the p22. It looked really nice and was in my 300$ price range. Is the p22 really a bad choice for self defense or CCW?

mdao
April 12, 2007, 02:22 AM
I'm sorry ffrobbyrob, to butt in your thread with a question of my own. I pass my HSC yesterday, I was thinking of getting CCW permit and my eyes was focus on the p22. It looked really nice and was in my 300$ price range. Is the p22 really a bad choice for self defense or CCW?

If this thread hasn't made it clear yet, the answer is yes. The P22 is finicky and oversized for the caliber. Rimfire ammunition has spotty quality control and spoils quickly in CCW conditions.

A good condition S&W revolver in .38 spl can be had in roughly the same sized package for the same amount of money. With proper ammunition selection terminal performance is up to an order of magnitude better.

A Beretta in .25 or .32 ACP can also be had for the same price, and is significantly more reliable and much easier to conceal with better terminal ballistics to boot.

Anyway you look at it, the P22 is not a good option unless you had no other choice.

trueblue1776
April 12, 2007, 09:34 AM
I've had no malfunctions (4000+ rounds) in my early production p22, so to me that would be reliable. Not many guns I own can go 1000 rounds without a single ammo or mechanical prob. And I am sure a .22 can kill someone, if you don't believe me ask the Israeli agents that write combat books about Beretta .22's.

ZeSpectre
April 12, 2007, 09:44 AM
I consider .22 to be too light for SD purposes. The smallest I'm comfortable with is .380. This is, of course, personal opinion and some agree while others disagree.

Caliber question aside, I had a brief association with a P22 that completely soured me on the gun. It was the least predictable, least accurate, and above all least reliable pistol I have ever had the misfortune to use. I am completely willing to accept that mine was a lemon and not representative of the overall design but the experience was SO bad that I will have nothing further to do with that particular design.

shooter1
April 12, 2007, 09:46 AM
Wow, Blue! 4k rounds of rimfire without a single misfire!! That's one for the record books right there. What brand of ammo are you using? We rimfire falling plate shooters would like to know!

str1

AK103K
April 12, 2007, 09:53 AM
My fairly early P22 has also been flawless, with quite a few thousand rounds through it at this point. A few of my friends have them too, and theirs all seem to work.

I tend to agree, unless its all you have, a larger caliber, even in the smaller guns, would be better. I've tried various .22's as back ups and finally settled on my Seecamp in .32ACP.

.22's in general are finicky, and it doesnt matter if its a P22, Walther TPH, Beretta 21, etc., if you dont keep them spotless and feed them the right ammo, your apt to have some issues.

Ex-MA Hole
April 12, 2007, 01:12 PM
1. When I used to have my PPK/S, I would carry my P22. Once I found the right ammo, I have done +/- 2000 rounds with nary an issue. That was a lot more than could be said for the PPK/S.

2. Regarding the poster that suggested the P99, I have one of those, too. The "controls" are all pretty similar. The P99 is 25% larger than the P22. Obviously a 9mm is better than a .22, but if the OP finds the right ammo, AND TESTS THE FACT THAT IT WORKS CONSISTENTLY, then yes, carry it if it is all you can afford (please don't take this as a slam, it was not intended that way). Please note, the P22 is VERY picky with ammo. You need to find out what works before you trust your life with it.

To me, my P22 was my starting point. I have since moved on, but my P22 is accurate enough for what you would need it for in a CCW capacity.

The Good
April 12, 2007, 01:20 PM
not so much the stopping power of the round thats the problem.. its the jamming. 22s are sketchy like that.

iif you can get a 22 that you know you can trust and never jams, then i guess you could consider carrying it, but be ready to fire quite a few rounds to stop a determined attacker.

givo08
April 12, 2007, 01:27 PM
even if your pistol is reliable, .22 ammo is very unreliable itself.

BHPshooter
April 12, 2007, 02:02 PM
(I'm not talking about LEO's on the job where they have to confront multiple BG's and put themselves in harms way.)

I'm NOT flaming you, but who says that Joe Average won't every have to face down more than one assailant? I don't know about your area, but in mine the creeps seem to have a "pack mentality."

Wes

scurtis_34471
April 12, 2007, 02:05 PM
I don't think I've ever had a failure with my P22 when shooting CCI Mini-Mags are Stingers. I've put hundreds of those through the gun without so much as a hiccup. Its when I try to shoot anything else that it all goes to hell in a handbasket. To me, the solution is simple: shoot the ammo that works.

mdao
April 12, 2007, 02:05 PM
I've had no malfunctions (4000+ rounds) in my early production p22, so to me that would be reliable. Not many guns I own can go 1000 rounds without a single ammo or mechanical prob. And I am sure a .22 can kill someone, if you don't believe me ask the Israeli agents that write combat books about Beretta .22's.

Assassination circumstances are different from CCW circumstances.

In an assassination, you have a perfectly clean gun, fresh ammunition, choice of shot placement, very low round count, and a single unaware opponent. .22's are also low noise, low penetration, easily silenced, and very compact.

In a self defense situation, your gun could be covered in lint and other junk, your ammunition has been exposed to your body's humidity for a significant period of time, and you're likely to need more than a couple of shots with a .22.

Completely different circumstances.

Really, if you're like AndyN and have $300 for a CCW pistol, a .22 LR would be one of the last cartridges I'd recommend.

scurtis_34471
April 12, 2007, 02:08 PM
With all the really small .380, .38, 9mm and .40 options out there, I can't imagine why anyone would carry a .22 for defense.

AK103K
April 12, 2007, 03:01 PM
Probably for ease of shooting and cheap practice. The small, larger caliber guns can be a challenge to shoot well with, especially if you dont practice with them on a regular basis. Shooting hot, SD type ammo out of many of them can be brutal, and expensive.

Ten rounds of .22 HV HP's on target trump a miss from any of the larger calibers. Another issue with them is, many of the pricey self defense rounds are made to perform within a specific ballistic environment, which may not be attainable out of a very short barrel.

If all I had was my P22, I wouldnt be all that upset, but I have no troubles carrying my P229 (or any of my other full sized guns) and a double reload year round, so I'm not to worried about it.

shooter1
April 12, 2007, 03:53 PM
I'll say it again, if a .22 is all you have, then by all means carry it! That makes it a matter of necessity. If you have other options and still carry a .22, shame on you. I keep hearing about 10 rds of .22 in a vital zone on an agressor. To that, I say BS!!!! In a "Fight or Flight" situtation, a large precentage of reasonably trained individuals will have trouble maintaining a 20% hit rate. Thats just one out of five that even hit the target, much less the occular cavity. Keep this is mind when choosing your carry weapon.
str1

deltacharlie
April 12, 2007, 04:10 PM
22 in the hand, beats a 45 in the safe so just carry something

As far as choosing to carry the 22 as a self-defense piece? Hey, it's your safety. You carry what you feel good about and I'll carry what I think best for my safety.

quatin
April 12, 2007, 04:11 PM
Isn't that bad? If you're shooting in a suburban area and 80% of your shots are strays?

AndyN
April 12, 2007, 04:18 PM
Reading everything so far, a .22 is really that bad huh. I had only a 400$ limit and the ccw permit took almost half of it away. My wife wont let me spend anymore :( . deltacharlie, that sounds good to me as long as I have something that can protect me from danger I'll take it.

deltacharlie
April 12, 2007, 07:22 PM
That's right AndyN, go with what ya can afford (that's how I roll).

Besides, the bid-ness end of a 22 will look like the size of a 38 to a goblin who wasn't expecting you to be packin' heat, they'll tend to give you this look :what:

Doggy Daddy
April 12, 2007, 07:42 PM
I have a couple of Glocks (19 & 26) three Tauri (605, 85, and 94) and a P22. I enjoy shooting the P22 at least as much as any of the others. It's reliable, and fun. I can't reload fast enough!

Would I use it for CCW? As a last resort, maybe.

ArchAngelCD
April 12, 2007, 08:23 PM
I'm NOT flaming you, but who says that Joe Average won't every have to face down more than one assailant? I don't know about your area, but in mine the creeps seem to have a "pack mentality."

Wes
Thefumegator,
I was talking about 17+1 and 2X17 rounds in spare mags. Most people other than LEO's wouldn't need 52 rounds to protect themselves.

If you live somewhere where crime is high and they run in packs that's not a common SD situation. You just might need a lot of ammo. I was talking about the situation most people are in, you carry just in case something happens and probably will never need to fire in SD.

You have to agree that if you need 52 rounds to protect yourself in most cases, you are probably practicing spray-and-pray instead of really practicing to place your shots well.

trueblue1776
April 12, 2007, 10:48 PM
Wow, Blue! 4k rounds of rimfire without a single misfire!! That's one for the record books right there. What brand of ammo are you using? We rimfire falling plate shooters would like to know!


CCI stingers and a rigorous cleaning/oiling schedule.

Everybody talks so much trash about the p22 and it happens that almost half the shooters I know have bought (some have sold) them. It isn't a terribly accurate pistol, but as far as I know that is the only downfall.

AK103K
April 13, 2007, 05:33 AM
I agree about the trash talk, and the most vocal often turn out to be those who dont, or never have, owned one.

I guess the accuracy thing is either random across the guns or more likely, a shooter issue. Mine shoots ragged holes at 10-15 yards. It also has fed most everything I've put in it, using the original spring what came in it. I keep hearing they are unreliable, and often wonder if people even bothered to read the manual to know there were two springs to compensate for different ammo, and change them if necessary.

shooter1
April 13, 2007, 08:00 AM
CCI stingers and a rigorous cleaning/oiling schedule

That pretty well confirms my findings on .22 rimfire ammo. The CCI ammo is hands down the most reliable ammo I have used/seen on the range. When you have 6 rounds to down 6 plates, a misfire means a lost plate. I have not found the Stingers to be sufficently accurate to use on the 25yd line plates. Many use the CCI target fodder. I opt for the mini mags. The added velocity helps a little on a marginal hit. At the plate matches we normally have about 20 shooters firing 96 rounds per match, not counting shoot offs. Thats almost 2k rounds a match. I usually see 4-6 misfires a match (Ammo brand unknown) That's way too many for me to trust a rimfire for CCW. On the other hand I have2 centerfires, (Kimber 1911/Glock 21) that went 1000 rounds in a two day class without cleaning. I would expect my other centerfire shoots to do the same.
Good Shooting!
str1

3rdpig
April 15, 2007, 01:01 AM
Is .22 good enough for SD use?

To answer that question let's consider a scenario. Let's say I'm the bad guy and you're my victim. My pocket gun is usually a 38 snubby and my main carry guns are a Glock 26 (9mm subcompact) and a Glock 20 (full sized 10mm).

For this scenario lets assume I've got the G26, 11 rounds of 9mm, 124 grain Speer Gold Dot hollow points and you've got your P22 stoked with CCI mini mags, probably the best option available.

We both draw equally fast and our first shots both hit center mass. I'm 6'4" and 240. Your 22 rounds can't penetrate enough to kill me unless you're good enough, or lucky enough to get me in the heart or through the eye on the first shot. A one in a thousand chance at best. And I'm pumped on PCP so I can't feel the pain. In fact, I'm so hyped I don't even know I've been shot. To stop me you're going to need multiple hits with a reasonably powerful caliber in one or more major organs.

My first 9mm hits you center mass, expands to .60" and has the capability to penetrate 12" and certainly will enter a lung or even hit your spinal cord. You're not stoned so the shock of being shot will hit you fast. But lets say your second shot hits me before my second shot hits you. Again, you fail to kill me instantly or stop me and once again I don't even realize I've been shot. In fact, between my leather jacket, leather vest and the layers of fat and muscle across my chest your .22 rounds haven't even penetrated to a major organ, both wounds are superficial. Nasty, but superficial.

My second 9mm hits you, rips through arteries and into your other lung. Both lungs are now filling with blood, you're a dead man standing, you'll never survive to make it to the hospital, but despite that you shoot me two more times, both times missing my heart and failing to even critically wound me, much less mortally wound me or stop me.

My third 9mm hits you and you go down and stop moving. I take your gun and your wallet and, realizing that I'm bleeding and hurt, I put one more round in your temple because you've made me angry. Then I go seek medical treatment where the gunshot wounds are reported and I'm caught by the police.

In our scenario I'm alive to argue my case in court, you're dead. The goal of a gunfight is to be the last man standing. You're going to have a hard time reaching that goal with a .22 rimfire pistol. A very hard time. In fact I'd be willing to bet that in 9 out of 10 tries against an attacker armed with 38 Special or better, even if you hit first you'll be the first man down.

Even with an equal caliber to your attacker you may lose the above scenario, but at least you'll have a fighting chance, if you're trained and practiced you stand an even better chance. You may get shot, but you also may survive because you've prevented your attacker from shooting you multiple times.

That's just one reason why you don't want to carry a 22 for self defense, but it's the best one. You'll lose most any gunfight you'll get in unless you're very lucky.

Yes, this was a long post, but if I've convinced just one person not to carry a .22 rimfire for self defense I'll consider it time well spent.

Geronimo45
April 15, 2007, 01:58 AM
"Your 22 rounds can't penetrate enough to kill me unless you're good enough, or lucky enough to get me in the heart or through the eye on the first shot. A one in a thousand chance at best."
:scrutiny:
You have any idea what the penetration of .22 ammo is? I'm afraid you'll need a heck of a lot of leather to stop it, 'cept for a CB round.
Also don't see how 9mm rounds become magical WMDs. Smashing lungs with unerring accuracy and shattering spinal cords, incapacitating in seconds... seems that you're comparing worst-case of the .22 to best case of the nine... not exactly a fair comparison.

shooter1
April 15, 2007, 06:29 AM
Me thinks all 3rdpig is trying to say is that a more efficient weapon gives you the edge in a deadly confrontation. There is no doubt in my mind that a larger, deeper, wound channel incapicates more quickly. I get the feeling that a lot of persons think that they will never need to use a firearm in defense of their lives, beyond just showing it and watching the aggressor run away in fear. Well, good luck with that! As any carry gun is marginally effective as a stopper anyway, make mine something bigger and more powerful than a .22. Some .380/9mm pistols are as small or smaller than the .22s available these days. To each his own.
str1

Geronimo45
April 15, 2007, 10:22 PM
"all 3rdpig is trying to say is that a more efficient weapon gives you the edge in a deadly confrontation. There is no doubt in my mind that a larger, deeper, wound channel incapicates more quickly."
No argument on that point here... the only question (which nobody seems to have a good answer for) is: how much more quickly? Is it measured in fractions of a second? Several seconds? Minutes? Does the somewhat slower speed of repeat shots found in a super-compact 9mm or .45 make it less good at stopping a BG than the pretty rapid shots you could get off with a little .22 or .25? Is it more holes or (slightly) bigger holes that will stop a fight faster? I don't know. For the sake of sheer perversity (to annoy every gunwriter who's ever lived), I hold to the thought that there's not such a huge gulf in 'stopping power' between .22lr and .45 ACP as a lot of people think.

shooter1
April 16, 2007, 05:28 AM
Geronimo,
I hold to the thought that there's not such a huge gulf in 'stopping power' between .22lr and .45 ACP as a lot of people think.

Don't know about you, but I'ts pretty improtant to me to be able to stop the bad guy a few hundreths of a scecond faster than he can punch my ticket. Following your reasoning, the NAA mini revolver is available in the .17, as well as the Taurus snubbie. There must not be much of a gulf between the .17 and .22.
str1

Lonestar
April 16, 2007, 08:43 AM
While I don't agree with idiots that say a .22 round will only Piss off a bad guy, your choice of a walther P22 is a little lame. The gun is pretty big, heck it is pretty close to the size of a glock 26 or a XD9 subcompact. For the price of a P22 you can get a Kel Tec P32 or P3at. The Kel Tecs are a lot smaller and the higher caliber will have more "stopping" power.

You have any idea what the penetration of .22 ammo is? I'm afraid you'll need a heck of a lot of leather to stop it, 'cept for a CB round.
Also don't see how 9mm rounds become magical WMDs. Smashing lungs with unerring accuracy and shattering spinal cords, incapacitating in seconds... seems that you're comparing worst-case of the .22 to best case of the nine... not exactly a fair comparison.

I have seen a guy dead from a .22 single shot to the head at approx 10 ft. I have heard of a cop in Ohio who shot a suspect with a .45 and the guy was almost uninjured. Apparently the guys wallet stopped the .45 slug.

tinygnat219
April 16, 2007, 09:22 AM
Let's look at this from an objective standpoint, I owned one and got rid of it as as soon as I could, complete POS pistol:

.22 Semi-autos are notorious for jams, misfires, etc.

.22 LR ammo is notorious for jams, misfires, etc. QC for the round is all over the place.

The P22 in particular is finicky about what kind of ammo it fires and when or if it fires it.

The .22 LR round is notorious for not stopping the goblins right away, but in a period of 10 minutes to an hour later when they bleed out. This leaves the perp 10 minutes to an hour to knock you silly.

If you can afford the 250-350 you'd spend on one of these, you can purchase a used .38 SPL / .357 Revolver to use as your main carry gun. Shoot, you can buy a Hi-Point for LESS than that and while they are ugly guns, I haven't heard anything about them being UNRELIABLE.

Considering all those parameters, do you still want to use the P22? Please think it over as it's your life you will be betting in the bargain.

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