[firestar]

If you had a really unreliable and weak caliber pocket gun, would you bother to carry it? If all you had was cheap Jennings .25acp that never fed more than 2 shots in a row, would you still carry it over nothing?

The reason I ask is, I have a Kel-Tec P-32 that I don't trust anymore for various reasons but I have found that since I don't carry it anymore, I end up not carrying anything. Whould it be better to have a gun like this, that MAY work or may not, than to have no gun at all?

Let's assume that the choice is only between a gun that you don't trust in reliability and power and nothing and not between it and a better gun.

[natedog]

Since 99% of armed conflicts are resolved without firing a shot, I would say SOMETHING is better than NOTHING.

[happyguy]

I'm in the same boat as you are as regards my P-32...unrelieable. But I have a Kahr P-9 and I just make myself carry it all the time. The truth is, I'm probably better off with the P-32 being unreliable as the Kahr is a much better weapon.

The best answer though, would probably be to send the P-32 back to Kel-Tec and make them get it right.

[El Tejon]

"I would rather have a hatchet, than a .25." Uncle Jeff.

[Freightman]

If you can't carry anyting other than a "25" I would opt for a 22 mag it is not that high and has more power IMO but a gun is better than no gun.
I personally do not carry anything that doesn't have a 4 infront of the caliber, but what you carry is up to you but "CARRY."

[firestar]

My P-32 doesn't jam anymore after sending it back but after breaking the trigger axis twice, I am not sure if it will do it again. I might have to use it and when I pull the trigger, nothing.:what: It may work but I couldn't think of a more unconfortable feeling than holding off a guy with a gun that you don't know if it will fire. I guess it is still better than trying to hold off a guy with no gun.

I think I need a Kahr PM9 or something.

[MLH]

When in a gunfight bring a gun.:neener:

[Rocko]

I would say it depends on the situations. If it is a case where you are escalating the situation by presenting a firearm, then you'd better be damn sure it will work.

Example: you are held up at knife point. The attacker may have been content with taking your valuables and leaving. However, if you draw your firearm, you are taking that option away from him, forcing him to either fight or flee. If the latter, then no problem. If the former, and your firearm fails, then you're in deep doo doo.

Unfortunately, you can't really know for sure what the intentions of your attacker are in such a situation. If you are in a situation where you know the attacker is trying to kill you or do serious bodily harm, then yeah, anything is probably better than nothing.

Rocko

[chetrogers]

I own a jennings 9mm and it get 3 or 4 shots out of it before it jams... :)

I would rather have it then have nothing..

[caz223]

First rule in a gunfight: Have a gun.

[10-Ring]

Do you carry anything?(...knife, pepper spray) Maybe it's time to find a reliable gun...I would suggest a S&W 640 ;)

[444]

Having a reliable and dependable self defense firearm is something that is worth making sacrifices to get, but, if for some reason you can't fix or replace your P32, remember this. The people you are going to be defending yourself against; criminals; don't stay up nights worry about how reliable their handguns are, they don't scour the internet trying to find the best possible handgun, they don't worry about what load they are using, they don't worry about what brand their gun or ammo is. They get what they can get, and use it.

[E357]

Why is it I see very few people who complain about their Kel-Tec actually just sell them and get something different? Look at the link on auction arms:

Kel-Tec P-32 (http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=4469666)

It seems that plenty of people are willing to pay at least $145 and eat the shipping etc. for a used gun, that sells for $200-$220 new. It just could be that the large majority of owners are very happy with theirs.

Elliot

[firestar]

I have other guns but none as small and easy to carry as the P-32. The P-32 is what I carry when I can't carry a real gun.:D I just found that I carry less often if I can't/won't carry the P-32.

I am going to load it and carry it until something better comes my way. I did feel a little better even with the P-32. I always have a Benchmade liner lock clipped to my pants pocket but I don't realy consider it much of a weapon. It was the back up to my P-32. I really don't want to try to defend myself with a 3 1/2" blade if I can avoid it.:uhoh:

[goon]

I still have yet to find a gun of sufficient power, and small enough size that I can carry it all the time. Luckily, I live in a rural area where I don't really have to worry about random crime. That, and I am young and pretty stout looking, I have a rough voice, and I always have a large knife on me. I could and most likely would put up a fight if I were attacked, and I think it shows.
But I live in an area where it isn't uncommon to see a half dozen Winchester 30-30's in the back of pick-ups on the way to the gas station. I wonder if that might have something to do with the low crime rate.
I am thinking that a light 5-shot .38 might be a good solution.

[Andrew Wyatt]

I'd carry a liberator or a jennings if it was all i had.


any gun is better than no gun.

[Feanaro]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. It might work so at least it's something. I wouldn't trust it though, probably a good idea to invest in a baton, knife, CS spray or one of those taser pistols.

[Rocko]

I'd like to amend my previous statement, a bit. Yes, I think that having any gun is better than no gun, provided that you have no illusions of being Rambo and provided that you are aware of the limitations of your gun.

Carrying a gun merely extends your options when confronted by an assaliant. I don't think it should always be drawn in every situation. Your assaliant is almost always going to get the drop on you - that's just the way it works. He knows he's going to confront you, you likely don't. If he's armed as well, and has already got his firearm pointed at you, the chance that you can draw and fire before he does are slim to none. You'd be surprised at how fast a guy decent with a knife can get to you and do lots of damage. If he just wants my wallet, in that situation he's probably going to get it. That's replacable, my life isn't. Of course, he may still shoot/stab you afterwards - that's a judgment call you'll need to make depending on his actions and behavior. Of course, it's still really just a guess.

I guess my point is that everyone should realize that presenting a firearm has the potential of getting you into more trouble that not doing so. Obviously, if the bullets have already started flying then you've got nothing to lose. However, it is important that you think of carrying a firearm as extending your available options and not as your only option. If your firearm is not dependable or you think it is underpowered, your options are obviously more limited. However, as long as you are aware of the limitations and make your decision of whether or not to draw the firearm based on those limitations, then I don't think you'll harm yourself by carrying one of the aforementioned pistols - or at least the potential benefits outweight the potential risks.

Rocko

[DFBonnett]

I've posted this before but a refresher may be in order.
While in grad school, my best friend worked nights as a desk clerk in a local motel. While not a gun owner, he is familiar with them to a degree.
One evening two individuals came in and told him to "give it up", pointing what turned out to be a .22 rifle in his face. From that vantage point he stated that it was like lookind down a sewer pipe. He did, in fact, "give it up", handing them the contents of the register.
That was the long version. The short version is that since any gun pointed at your face looks like a cannon, any gun is better than no gun.
That being said, a mouse gun would not be my first choice; but if the situation dictated, it is better than a sharp stick and harsh words.

[TheMariner]

We have a little Jennings J22... I love that little gun... couldn't hit crap beyond 7 yards but it works and in a pinch, I'd carry it...

[Obiwan]

I would agree that having A GUN is better than none...as long as it remains your final option and doesn't foster bad decisions.

Conflict avoidance will always be the best option.

[themic]

you could always throw it at the BG.

You know, like in the old Superman show... he'd stand there, hands on his hips as bullets zinged off his chest, but when the BG ran out of rounds and threw the gun, even Superman flinches.

[Dave R]

Natedog right.
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Miss Sam :(

[Freightman]

I work in a retail archery/gunshop, if the money is all they want then there will be no gun pulled of fired, that said there is at least six large caliber and 12 g at different points in the shop. Only to be used if your life is in intiment danger.
No money or merchendise is worth risking your life, but you need to be a student of human nature and use your best judgement.
A CCW is not a licenses to be a hero! the optimum word is conceled!!!

[.45FMJoe]

Freightman, your logic is completely flawed. Whoever made those rules needs to re-evaluate them. How do you judge if your life is in emminant danger? How do you know if you give them the money they won't shoot you? I've seen plenty of that on America's Most Wanted growing up and it really hit home when it happened in my town about 1/2 year ago. A crack head walked into a dry cleaners across town and demanded the money. The clerk gave it to him and said "take the money, please don't shoot me." What did the guy do? He shot the clerk. About 2 months later, across the street from my mother's store, in a dry cleaners, a man walked in and stuck a revolver in the counter person's chest, cocked the hammer and demanded the money. He however, did not shoot. These dry cleaner robberies worried me because my family owns 2 dry cleaners. My mom dislikes guns and refuses to learn to shoot. So instead she keeps the door locked when it gets dark and let's customers in. Myself and my father, on the other hand both pack .45s, I;ve usually got my M4 behind the call office wall and my co-worker has a H&K 12 gauge next to my M4. He carries a 9mm. I don't give a darn who you appear to be or whether or not the little voice in my head says "just do what he says and he will go away" I refuse to roll over and play dead. I will take my chances. I'd rather die fighting than get blown away while standing idle.

[Gerald McDonald]

Yes.

[firestar]

I don't give a darn who you appear to be or whether or not the little voice in my head says "just do what he says and he will go away" I refuse to roll over and play dead. I will take my chances. I'd rather die fighting than get blown away while standing idle.

Most of the time the robbers are just looking for the money. If you start pulling guns out, you may escalate a situation that wasn't going to go that route. You may be putting yourself in more danger by pulling your gun.

I don't know what I would do but if I had the sense that the robbers were not killers, I doubt I would start shooting. Like you said, you have to be a student of human nature and you have to trust your gut on things like that. If the little voice in your head is telling you that they just want the money but you decide to shoot first and ask questions later, you may be making a decision that is endangering your life.

The point is to stay alive and make it through a bad situation, it sounds like you have an ego problem that may get you killed. I'm not saying don't defend yourself, just don't take the situation personally. Try to act based on what is best for you and not act based on emotions of your pride being hurt because you are being treated like a punk by people that you find beneath you. I know the feeling but pride is NOT worth dying for. Pride isn't even worth killing some gang banger for. You are going to be bankrupted and your life will be turned upside down and you may even end up in prison if the jury thinks you are some kind of Rambo.

Don't get me wrong, if someone is going to kill me or someone I love, I doubt I would cry myself to sleep thinking about the tradegy of what I had to do. I'm just saying, try not to escalate a situation if possible.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

I would think that any reliable gun would
be better than NO GUN at all. With that said, I would
have reservations about weapons chambered for the
lowly .22 Short? If memory serves me correctly, the
.22 Short was chambered in the Beretta Minx; or the
the same gun as the .25 caliber Jet-Fire. The only
positive thing I can say about firearms chambered
for the .22 Short is the fact that ammunition cost
(per box of 50) would be really low!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[.45FMJoe]

I understand where you are coming from, but it's impossible to know exactly what the other person is thinking. By not acting you are playing russian roullette. Obviously if the gun is pointed at me I'm not gonna try to draw...I'll try distraction and hope someone else sees what's going on and opens fire....creating confusion and allowing me the second it should take me to bring my Glock or 1911 into action. I don't have an ego problem, I had an "awakening experience" in high school that scarred me for life. It was pretty minor, but that day changed me and made me realize not everyone was like me. If you knew me, you would know I'm gentle, kind, passionate, and a nice guy. It might not seem like it the way I speak about self defense, but it's just that self-DEFENSE. Don't create an offense and I'll never need to defend myself.

The ironic thing is we never hear of the stores being robbed in the ghetto or the bad parts of town. It's the rich South Tampa (Hyde Park, Palma Ceia, etc.) areas that get it. As it so happens, those are right where our stores are as we provide professional, high-quality service at a fair (but not discount) price. Basically, we are not the cheapest in town by a LONG shot, but we definately don't gouge people. This, is what lures the criminals. I worry more about my mom and little sister at my mom's store because they are in a small strip mall (3 stores) with less than stellar lighting and they are defenseless. In my dad's store we are in a large strip mall with hired Tampa Police as security because the place USED to be a hot bed for crime. There hasn't been a single incident (besides shoplifting or something equally as minor) in about 6 years since TPD was hired. But who's to say that will last indefinately? We are the only one's in the entire mall with a back door call office and it's right off a main street with tons of residential to run off into. Basically it's a super easy stop, rob and run chance. I keep the M4 up front for this reason...I could hit a human at the 180 feet or so from where my rifle rests and effectively end any kind of altercation involving my father or coworker if they happen to be in the back and in danger.

[Mute]

Not if you're relying on that gun alone to save you. With a small caliber gun, there's going to be a much higher likelihood of hand-to-hand contact with your adversary than with a larger caliber weapon.

Either case, I would prefer to have some non-gun survival skills to complement my gun, but I'll go out on a limb and say that the non-gun fighting skills will be of greater need to you if you choose a mouse gun (sorry had to say it) for a companion.

[David4516]

Here is how I look at it:

#1: Any gun is better than no gun.

#2: If you don't trust your gun, learn a Martial art and/or carry a knife just in case the gun doesn't "go bang".

#3: .25 ACP isn't for gunfighting. Its meant to soften up the other guy for the fistfight that will follow ;)

If I was you I'd sell the Kel-Tec and try a different gun. I hear that the Berretas (the Jetfire in particular) are very dependable, but they are a bit bigger. If you don't mind carrying a gun that is cosiderably larger than your P-32, you might want to think about a Makarov. You could sell the P-32, buy a Mak, and still have money left over. The Makarov is very reliable, is a larger caliber, and is more fun to shoot (I hate the trigger pull on the P-32).