[Double Maduro]

I just got back from a local gun shop, buying cleaning supplies and snap caps. While I was there I saw that they had 3 Makarov's in the case.

These are Bulgarian, and they said they were new. They come with 2 magazines, a cleaning rod and an extra set of grips that on casual inspection looked to be wood, but may be plastic.

First, I didn't know they were still making Mak's. This is a reputable shop so they probably are.

Second, is the 9x18 round a decent self defense round?

Third, are these pistols accurate, reliable and safe?

Fourth, is $180.00 a good price?

All I know about Mak's I learned here so any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
DM

[antsi]

$180 is a fair/decent price, but not a can't-pass-it-up deal of the century.

9x18 for self defense is just going to be another chapter in the same old debate. It is maybe a skoshe more powerful than .380 but a full notch down from 9mm para. It is very easy to shoot quick accurate follow up shots.

Maks have a well deserved reputation for reliability. I have never had any kind of malfunction with mine. Ocassionally you will hear of hiccoughs with certain brands of hollow point ammo but you will be able to find JHP's that work in your gun. And besides, the argument can be made that FMJ might be a better choice for self defense in this caliber anyway.

It is a proven design. The "Makarov kB!" is a nonexistent phenomenon.

They are plenty accurate as long as you're comparing apples to apples (won't outshoot an olympic match pistol, 'natch).

[lee n. field]

First, I didn't know they were still making Mak's. This is a reputable shop so they probably are.

They don't make them anymore. The most recent new were a short run of commercial Maks from Miltex. These are distinguished from milsurp by having a squared trigger guard. They're also quite a bit more expensive than milsurp.

What you're looking are probably some of the thousands of "unissued" Bulgarian Maks out there.

Second, is the 9x18 round a decent self defense round?

That's debatable.

accurate, reliable and safe?

yes.

is $180.00 a good price?

Right now, I don't know. I got mine about 3 years ago, when one of the vendors had a $99 ea for 2 or more deal. My dealer said he could do better than that with one of his distributors, and I got an unissued Bulgarian w/ holster and 2 mags, $136 out the door (taxes, shipping, FFL fees, etc.)

[David4516]

"First, I didn't know they were still making Mak's."

I don't think that they are. But, there are alot of "un-issued" Maks out there, and they could be considered "new"...

"Second, is the 9x18 round a decent self defense round?"

Decent, yes. Great, no. My Mak is my carry gun, and I don't feel under-gunned. But it's no .45, thats for sure...

"Third, are these pistols accurate, reliable and safe?"

Yes, yes, and yes. You won't find a more reliable compact auto out there.

"Fourth, is $180.00 a good price?"

It's not good, but it's not bad either. I think they average for about $150 or so, but that can vary depending on the condition of the Mak and your location. I think $180 is a fair price for an 'Un-issued' Makarov...

[alamo]

Bulgarian Makarovs are $129.95 from SOG so if you factor in shipping and the transfer fee from your dealer, $180 isn't too bad.

http://www.southernohiogun.com/surplus_hand.html


Makarovs are extremely reliable, most are accurate and they are safe. Do some reading up on them:

http://www.makarov.com/makfaq.html

http://www.makarov.com/makbasics.html


Spare parts and accessories are inexpensive and readily available:

http://www.makarov.com/cart/index.html


Ammo info.:

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9x18/gel9x18.htm

I use Cor-Bon in mine but they don't make it anymore.

Pick one up, you won't be sorry, it's a great bargain. It's also a piece of history. The Makarov was the primary sidearm of the Soviet/Warsaw Pact armies from the early 50s until not long ago. Still used though.

[makdaddy03]

The Makarov is the best darn handgun ever made.;)

[CZ-75]

I can't add too much to this, except to say that the price may not be that bad when you figure in the transfer fees and shipping from a wholesaler. It is probably worth it if the Cyrillic letters in the serial number haven't been stamped out, as recent imports have based on some recent bug up the BATF's @$$. The latest imports have the letters defaced.

Plenty of parts other than slides are available and the pistol is easily repaired should the mainspring or sear spring break, which are the only two things that have ever broken on mine; you can detail strip it and put it back together in under 10 minutes, unless you remove the extractor, which will take 10 minute all by itself to get back in.

[alamo]

If you get one, you might pick up a #19 recoil spring and a magazine loader from Makarov.com. The loader really helps a lot.
There are illustrated disassembly instructions on Makarov.com or you can get one of the Russian translated manuals. Some put on the Pearce or Makawrap grips. I like the Makawrap myself.

[David4516]

The #19 spring is a good idea if you are gonna shoot hotter loads. It will save some wear and tear on your pistol, and the brass won't fly so far. The latter isn't that big a deal for alot of Mak owners, but I reload 9mm Makarov/9X18 so I have to hunt down the brass...

I like the "star" grips. Most Maks come with these grips, I think they are the standard Mak grip. They are thin plasic and have a Star on each side. They come in red or black. The worst Makarov grips I've seen were the ones that came with my Bulgie Makarov from SOG. They had this thumb rest thing that was at totaly the wrong angle and made it much less comfortable.

There are all kinds of goodies you can get for Maks. This is one of the newer and more interesting ones I've seen:

http://www.makarov.com/32naa/index.html

[alamo]

I've read on the Makarov forum that they come with the thumb rest grips installed (usually the original grips come with it too) only to help make them legal to import. I'm not familiar with the system, but imported guns must have a certain number of points based on a scoring system and the thumb rest grips are put on to contribute to the scoring. Believe imported pistols must be of a certain size and the thumb rest grip makes the pistol wider for the measurement.

[BowStreetRunner]

I second the SOG idea, I got mine there....Ill try to attach a picture
I now have 300 rds of HP and FMJ thru it with no failures of any kind, and my mechanically disinclined self can clean it easily too
Makarov.com is a good resource also IMO....someone in the general board just posted a complaint about them not shipping some ammo for his order........but I like them.....my 2 orders from them have been timely.....its a shame they didnt perfom for him too
Go Maks!

[Bren]

I thought Bulgaria was the only counrty still making them new. They aren't coming in right now because of the war and people buying them up.

Reliable/accurate? Yes

Stopping power? You can do better per size.

Price? usually $160 (Bulgy)

I have two EG maks that I bought at $150 each recently at different places and consider that a fine deal. Bren

[David4516]

Just got back from Target shooting, another 250+ rounds thru my Mak with no problems... Dang I love this gun

[9x19]

Picture, if you will, Gretel with a fine new set of clothes... made by Novak and fit to a T! :D

Bren... you oughta get off your duff and send that slide... The sights are getting lonely! :D

[makdaddy03]

Bren, Nice set of Maks you have there. Nice to see you here at THR.:)

[Bren]

Thanks Makdaddy.:cool:

9x19, DOH! Ok, I'll try to send it in this week, hope your mill is still set up for the Maks. Thanks!

This one shoots low at 25 yards but I'm sending the one that shoots high. :uhoh:

[grenadier]

180 bucks for a Bulgarian isn't too bad of a deal, if the gun is in great condition, with a good finish. That would be a good price for an East German or Russian Makarov, which, in my experiences, tended to have somewhat better finishes.

I think you'll find them to be a pleasure to own and shoot. They are certainly ugly, but possess ironclad reliability and durability. I've never heard of someone wearing out a Makarov in a short time.

[12 Volt Man]

You guys have access to a milling machine to put dove tails on a mak? Details..........I need details!!! I was thinking about sending it in through Makarov.com. If you guys have another way, I would like to hear about it.

[denfoote]

Hey Bren,
The sights on Pistolet Makarova are numbered. I'm not sure any more how the system works, but Dr. Bloss does!! You can buy different rear sights over at his place!!

[CZ-75]

Bulgarian and EG numbers don't mean the same thing, either.

[9x19]

12 Volt Man,

I bought my own mill, and have done several of my own pistols... Bren is the first (non-family) guinea pig.

www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=22123

[cowpuncher/pi]

I bought one from a dealer in Tx. for $210.00. Which I found out later was high. Then about 3 weeks ago I was in a gun shop looking around. They had one for 149.50 and it had the sweetest trigger of any mak I have handled. I bought it. As far as stopping power. I have a friend that was in the International Police Force in Bosnia. He saw a man killed grave yard dead with one round.
His saying about the Mak is 1.5 million Bosnian's can't be wrong.
You can go to Makarov.com and order some really nice CCW mags. Plus tons of other stuff. I carry one in my patrol bag as a back up to my back up. Good-Good-is Good!

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. While not my first choice as a defensive caliber, much of my shooting is just for the pure fun of it, but I prefer centerfires. With the plethora of inexpensive 9x18 Makarov ammo available, the Mak's a frequent shooter, even if I'm primarily shooting another handgun. I think the fellow got a decent deal on his Makarov and I suspect he'll wind up really liking it. I bought my first one just to see what all the "hoopla" was about and while not usually partial to DA/SA autos, I do really like the thing. Wound up with an E. German that's like new for a second one to "compliment" the new Bulgarian.

As I've mentioned in a couple of range reports, I've been very impressed with the reliability of these pistols and was most pleasantly surprised in the accuracy. These little shooters are tough as they can be and I think they'll take lots of shooting with no problems....but, if there are, spare parts, magazines, and such are quite inexpensive when compared with those for some other pistols.

Getting back to the defense thing, while I do like other rounds better for such, I'd much rather have a Makarov that worked each time I pressed the trigger than one that usually did. That's normally been the case with the Maks so far as I can tell from what others say and what I've seen with these two.

Kudos on your purchasing a Mak and good shooting.

Best.

[Bren]

denfoote, who is Dr Bloss and how much are the sights?

I have a #2 sight. Thanks, Bren

[mainmech48]

IMO, $180 for a like-new Mak with accessories isn't unreasonable when you consider that the dealer probably has $130 or so in it. The guy's gotta eat and pay his bills too.

The DA pull on my Bulgarian was heavy and somewhat "gritty" feeling when I first got it. Thorough cleaning and some of Neil Keller's excellent lube in the right places helped, but putting a case of ammo through it slicked it up a good deal. The mechanism is robust and relatively simple. There are detailed instructions with good illustrations for a DIY action job on Makarov.com's web site. With a little care and patience you can get very nice results.

Accuracy is generally very good for a small "service" pistol, and they're as reliable as gravity with ball ammo. Mine feeds the Hornady HPs 100% too. YMMV, but light polishing of the feed ramp will usually cure most feeding problems with JHPs. Since the Cor-Bons disappeared, the Hornadys are the only premium SD load I'm aware of right now.

I ended up sending my slide to Mak.com and having a set of XS sights with the "standard" size non-tritium dot installed. It isn't cheap at $120 with return shipping, but the parts cost $60 by themselves. Add in the cost of two dovetail cutters, and the risk of getting in trouble for using company machine tools to work on a "gun" (even on my own time), and it really isn't that bad for the job.

I could've done it at home with a hacksaw and files, but who wants to spend the entire weekend doing a 1 hour job the hard way?

They make a HUGE difference for me in terms of speed of sight acquisition and practical accuracy. Non-Geezers can probably get away with just a dab of enamel on the front sight, but the tiny, shiney stock set-up and my bifocals just didn't cut it.

The Pierce rubber grips are cheap and a big improvement over the stock one that came on mine. They add a little bulk, but not enough to compromise concealment.

For a reliable, all-steel CCW/home defense pistol on a tight budget, the Maks are hard to match.

[Double Maduro]

Thanks for all the information you guys have given me. I knew I could count on you for help and advice.

DM

[David4516]

So have you decided if you're getting the Mak or not? We'd love to know what you end up doing... If you get a Mak let us know if you like it...

[Double Maduro]

OK,

I just got back from the shop.

Bulgarian Makarov Serial Number indicates the year is '87
Spare Mag
Holster (the one with the leather strap you have to pull to draw)
2 boxes of hollow point (Russian, the only kind they had)
Tool
Red Star grip
Used hard side case

Oregon fees,

Out the door, $206.

Now how do I get all of this freakin cosmoline off and out of it?

Guess I'll start boiling some water.

[David4516]

Your from Oregon? Me too, I live in Beaverton. Where did ya go to get your Mak?

[alamo]

Be sure to take out the firing pin (btw, there is no firing pin spring) and extractor as cosmoline gets in there.
The extractor can be a little tricky the first time.

See the "detail stripping" link-

http://www.makarov.com/tech.html

[Double Maduro]

David4516,

I got it at Northwest Armory, over on McLoughlin.

They have 2 left.

[Double Maduro]

Well,

2 hours in hot soapy water and most of the cosmoline came off, a little more came off with some cleaning.

I did a detail strip, got the directions at makarov.com, can't believe how simple this pistol is. I don't know when I will get to the range but I will let you know how it turns out.

DM

[David4516]

Thanks for the info, I'll have to check it out. I won't have time for a few days though, I work and then this weekend I'm going camping... Hope that they are still there by then...

I've been thinking about getting a second Mak for some time, I'll need to be careful or I might end up spending some $ over there...

[mainmech48]

Congrats on your purchase, DM. I think you'll find that these little pistols have a lot more going for them than just the low price by the time you've put those two boxes of ammo through it.

My Bulgie didn't come packed in cosmoline, so I didn't have to go through that mess with it. As something of a C&R junkie, I've had to deal with that task quite a bit.

FWIW in the future, the easiest way that I've found to do it quickly and thoroughly follows:

Buy a gallon of kerosene - DO NOT USE GASOLINE!!! There are other solvents for petroleum greases, I know. But kerosene is cheap, and not as likely to attack enamel or phosphate metal finishes or wood finishes as a lot of them. "Simple Green" has it's fans, but it's a lot more work, IME.

Most of the other stuff you'll need can be scavenged from your house and/or garage: a couple of old paint brushes, some rags and newspaper, an old coffee can, metal baking pan or other container. If you have one of those DIY oil change pans, use it.

A pair of petroleum-resistant vinyl or neoprene gloves (not absolutely vital, but nice), eye protection (home workshop safety goggles are fine), and your cleaning rod with a jag and brush of the proper size.

Take the whole mess outside to the garage, deck, or wherever it's well-ventilated and any spills or splatters won't be grounds for marital strife. Set up your work area to suit yourself.

Field strip the piece. Remove the stock or grips and set aside for now.

Pour some kerosene into your coffee can/cake pan/whatever. Put all of the metal parts that'll fit the container into it to soak. Check them after a few minutes and slosh them around to work the solvent into all of the recesses. Use the paint brush(es) to get it into the nooks and crannies as needed, and soak some more if necessary. As each piece comes clean, set it aside on some newspaper to drain. If you happen to have an air compressor and nozzle, you can speed this process up a lot.

For long arms, you'll need to hold the barreled action over your drain pan and use the brushes to slosh 'n scrub the outside. Make sure you get some into the bore and chamber (an old turkey baster is great here). Run your bore brush through the barrel and chamber until all the gunk is cleared.

Use your brushes and rags as necessary on the wood. Don't soak it, and wipe the excess solvent off quickly.

As you reassemble things, wipe or blow them off them thoroughly and apply lubricant or protectant as and where needed. I like WD-40.

It really takes longer to write than it generally does to do a good job on the average pistol, as detail-stripping is unnecessary in most cases. The kerosene will dissolve 99.8% of the cosmoline everywhere if you use it liberally and agitate things a bit to flush it through. An additional "plus" is that kerosene leaves a little "oily" residue on the metal when the volatiles evaporate rather than stripping it bare. You're a bunch less likely to have rust turn up later in hidden places with it than with any water-based cleaner or more-aggressive mineral solvents.

[Double Maduro]

:D :D :D

I took the Mak to the range today, what the heck, it was wednesday.

I took a box of Barnaul (sp) 95 gr hollow points, the only ammo the shop had.

I can't believe how this pistol shot. It is accurate and didn't miss a beat.

Some of you recommended a 19# return spring. How in the world do you cycle it? The spring already feels stronger than my Ruger P90. Maybe it is the fact that it is a new gun.

By the way, when I shake it I can't hear anything rattle, kind of nice.

I have a new tool and if it continues to perform like this, I see a long and happy relationship.

I will continue to carry my P90 but when the weather calls for something a little smaller and lighter it will most likely be the MAK.

Thanks to all who told me to go for it, I am happy.

Now for recommendations on ammo, anyone?

[Bren]

Well for carry ammo, try to find some Cor-bon, it's no longer made but still can be found. Alot of the surplus HP ammo will also work and according to Stephens fine report, the Brown bear 115gr seems to expand quite large. AVOID "silver bear" 120 gr because it jams up in the mags and will be unreliable, everything else should be fine such as all Barnal brands which seems to be the same but just labeled different. I get Ram HP for $5 a box by the half case and use it for most my range time with the maks.

Also DO NOT use WD-40 on your guns! It's a very poor lgun ube and gums up if stored in a gun over time.

Enjoy! Maks are great, Bren

[alamo]

Double Maduor, If you shake it back & forth, you can sometimes hear the firing pin rattling.

Might want to get the magazine loader from Makarov.com, you'll find it is much easier to load using it.


Here's some ammo info., I use Cor-Bon for carry, but as previously stated, it is not made anymore:

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9x18/gel9x18.htm

[CZ-75]

A set of pearce grips, the mag loading tool, and a few extra mags would be a good start.

[David4516]

I normally only shoot hand-loads in my Mak, since it is so cheap and easy to re-load for. I did try a box of Winchester 95 gr FMJ on Monday, and it fucntioned 100%.

http://www.outdoormarksman.com/merchant/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=om&Product_Code=99176&Category_Code=CP-100-918M

By the way, the guys who run this website are Oregon based and have a really cool little ammo shop in salem, you might want to check it out...

In case you are interested, here are the hand-loads I use:

Plinking:

Bullet = 95 gr Lead
Powder = 3.0 gr Red-Dot or 2.8 gr 700-X
Primer = Winchester Small Pistol
COL = 0.965 inches
Velocity = About 800 FPS give or take a little depending on load

Carry:

Bullet = 95 gr Hornady XTP
Powder = 4.1 gr Bullseye
Primer = CCI Small Pistol
COL = 0.965 Inches
Velocity = 1025 FPS

I have done some informal expansion testing and I've been very impressed with the XTP. I believe you can buy factory Hornady ammo with this bullet, but if the rumors are ture it's about 100 FPS slower than my handloads.

Sometimes I'll use Speer 95 gr TMJ instead of the XTP for carry when I'm out camping. There are some Cougars around here, and if I run into one I'd like to get a little more penatration. Also would be better in case I run into a wild dog or a Bear, but I wouldn't call 9mm Makarov a "anti-bear' caliber...

Speer makes Gold-Dots for the Mak, but I have not had good luck with them. They function OK, but again velocity isn't as good as it is with the XTPs...

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Here's the chronograph data I have on some various factory rounds out of the Mak:

9x18mm Makarov (Commercial Bulgarian Makarov Pistol):
TCW 95 gr FMJ Ave. Vel. = 1043 ft/sec
Fiocchi 95 gr FMJ Ave. Vel. = 1018 ft/sec (ES: 28 ft/sec)
CorBon 95 gr JHP +P Ave. Vel. = 1098 ft/sec
Hornady 95 gr XTP Ave. Vel. = 937 ft/sec
9x18mm Makarov (East German Makarov):
LVE 115 gr JHP Ave. Vel. = 1025 ft/sec (ES:12/SD:5.38)!
Sellier & Bellot 95 gr ball Ave. Vel. = 924 ft/sec (ES:264/SD:81)!
Barnaul 95 gr ball Ave. Vel. = 1058 ft/sec (ES:45/SD:13)!
Fiocchi 95 gr ball Ave. Vel. = 1020 ft/sec (ES:89/SD: 32)
Corbon 95 gr JHP Ave. Vel. = 1100 ft/sec (ES:29/SD: 12)
Hornady 95 gr XTP Ave. Vel. = 984 ft/sec (ES:168/SD:60) HV:1102 ft/sec, LV: 933 ft/sec

(On another day)

Brown Bear LVE 115 JHP Ave. Vel. = 1007 ft/sec (ES:33/SD: 9.69)
Barnaul 95 gr JHP Ave. Vel. = 1030 ft./sec (ES: 66/SD:20.37)
Corbon 95 gr JHP +P Ave. Vel. = 1088 ft/sec (ES: 53/SD: 26.85)
Hornady 95 gr XTP Ave. Vel. = 938 ft/sec (ES: 63/SD: 21.35)

[mainmech48]

Bren: I agree that WD-40 isn't a good lubricant, but it is a very good penetrating protectant for metal surfaces. Especially those that are usually covered by the stock. I spray it on a swab or patch and apply it liberally to those areas, let the solvent vehicle evaporate, and wipe the excess off with a rag. It seems to get into the "pores" of the metal to leave a moisture barrier that lasts for a long time. I've used it in this capacity for many years with great success, particularly on "Parkerized" surfaces.

For long-term protection on blued, "French Gray", or "white" metal, I prefer a specialty hard wax product like "Renaissance Wax". It works on wood, metal, leather - just about any smooth material - well enough to be used by many museums on their extremely valuable antiques and relics subjected to extended storage or display.

It's been my experience that WD-40 also works very well at displacing water. After a day spent hunting in drizzling rain or snow, a quick spray-and-wipe with it will save you some potentially nasty surprises when you get home after the trip and strip your rifle or shotgun for thorough cleaning.

Each to their own. It works for me.

I haven't done any real "scientific" testing on 9x18 HPs. I don't have the resources for the large quantities of suitable media (gelatin, clay, duct putty, etc.) to do it right.

From what I can gather from semi-casual testing in water (horse tank and gallon jugs), the Cor-Bons and Hornadys were the only ones that showed reliable enough expansion for me to trust my Personal Favorite Behind to. The Barnauls were inconsistent when samples from two different lots were tried: some worked nicely and some didn't. For casual shooting and practice it makes no difference, but when I carry the Mak it's loaded with Hornadys because I can't find Cor-Bons in 9x18 locally.

[David4516]

Looks like I'll be heading to the armory tommarow. I wonder if those Maks are still there...

[Double Maduro]

David4516

So did you buy one?

[David4516]

I didn't get to go yet. A friend and I were going to go yesterday, but to make a long story short we had a bit of a car accident(we are okay, and so is the car) and didn't make it. Were are going to try again tommarow, I'll keep you posted...

[David4516]

Ok, I finaly made it over to the Armory!

They still have 2 Maks left. I didn't buy one, I was very tempted, but I've got bills to pay, you guys know how it is...

This is the first time I've been there, and I was expecting them to charge an arm and a leg for most their stuff, but it looked like they had pretty reasonable prices, particularly on their reloading components. They also sell AA gunpowders, I haven't been able to find that powder anyplace else in the area...

Anyway, I'll have to stop by the Armory from time to time, and if those Maks are still there on a day when I have some money burning a whole in my pocket, I'll get one...

[Double Maduro]

I know how it is exactly.

Were there prices good on the reloading stuff? I am thinking I will have to start reloading soon so I can afford to eat.

[David4516]

I didn't look at their reloading tools (for example, presses and such) but their components were a pretty good deal (brass, bullets, primers, that sort of thing).

A good place to get reloading stuff online:

http://www.midwayusa.com/

Bi-Mart also has some good deals, I know because I used to work there...

[Tecolote]

Sorry to jump into the thread late.;)

How's your Bulgie Mak doing? I haven't seen a NIB Bulgie in a long time. $206 out the door isn't bad at all. I wish I could find one for that price.

[Double Maduro]

The Mak is doing just fine. I am amazed at the quality of this little gun and have been biting my tongue so I don't tell too many people about them, I may want another one someday.

I have put a box of Barnaul through it without any problems at all.

DM

[RVSinOK]

Just out of curiosity, does anybody know of any shops in OK that might have Maks in stock? I have read a lot about them, and am thinking I would like to get one, but it would be kind of nice to have actually touched one before I buy it, you know? I have checked a couple of places, but no luck so far.....

[David4516]

Considering that they are "cheap", "surplus" guns, Maks can be hard to come across...

I got mine from SOG...