[yhtomit]

I've seen this term around, and asked a question yesterday (elsewhere on this site) about "80% receivers." I was kindly directed to one retailer (http://www.ar15plus.com/) which sells ones for a few different types of guns.

Can anyone give me some insight about these? I am asking out of curiosity, and in the few-years-down-the-road mode, not expected to order one tomorrow and have it win competitions next weekend ;)

I don't know how representative that site's prices are, but for instance, it seems pretty expensive to buy an unfinished 1911 frame for $200, when that's nearly 2/3 the price of some entry-level but respectable finished 1911 pistols (Rock Island Armory).

For anyone who's made one, what kind of skill level would you characterize such a project as requiring? How easy is it to irreversably screw up? What did you build, and how many hours (or tens, or hundreds ... ) did it take for you to finish?

(And I know this isn't the Legal forum, but is this essentially a legal way to obtain a gun that lives in no database? Anyone know of state regulations which would hamper purchase, or is it "not a gun" and therefore not subject to even the stringent rules in states like California?)

Any other thoughts or info on these appreciated -- never ceases to amaze me what odd loopholes there are in the U.S. gun laws, and I've only read a few of them ;)

timothy

[berkbw]

I am thinking that there are two target groups of customers for the 80% frame:

> Totally diehard DYIers;

> Those who can not legally purchase a frame.

b-

[Car Knocker]

And those who would like a firearm that is "off the books".

[Jim K]

There are those who claim they use those frames to build super accurate guns and have thousands of dollars worth of precision equipment to do so. That may be, but every inquiry I have seen involves people who want to own a gun without a record, or want to own a gun they can't buy legally.

Some of the latter don't seem to have machining skills to match their zeal to own an "off the books" gun. I have seen several of those frames with half-hearted scratches or Dremel tool cuts that proved the job is more difficult than the purchasers thought.

I also wonder about those who claim to build high quality guns, since some of the frames I have seen appear to be little better than cast iron.

Jim

[jpcampbell]

Their is a lot of information on 80% recivers at http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi